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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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A_Somebody said:
Once it did the reveal is that Doctrine of Exceptionalism wasn't some feat of masterful diplomacy but him going "nuh uh," and everyone being too tired i guess to complain,
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It kind of was though? The Doctrine of Exceptionalism was explicitly not just Jaehaerys going "nuh uh" it was an entire propaganda campaign which involved Jaehaerys' lackey septons going around the entire continent preaching the word and holding debates with disagreeing septons about the theological validity of the Doctine of Exceptionalism.

TBH I'd say Barth deserves more credit for the Doctrine than Jaehaerys does, given Barth was the one who wrote the theological arguments that actually made the doctrine convincing, but even than, I'd say Jae gets some credit simply for being one of the few Westerosi kings willing to put a man of exceptionally low birth as hand due to him having the skills to do an excellent job.
 
Teen Spirit said:
I should mention I did change that to a big extent, still a bit of narrativium, because Azel convinced me the dice rolls would be better.

Which paid off in some interesting ways with Helaena.
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Oh! Gotcha, that's neat.

Ghost in the sun said:
Yeah but the characters in quest don't know that do they?
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The characters in quest know that:
1) there's roughly a 50% chance of any given child being a boy;
2) a woman might give birth to several children over her life;
3) Viserys remarried for the purpose of having children because there are too few spares;
4) even a single male child will bring the kind of trouble we're talking about.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
It would be so funny if she had Nyra's physique and constitution BUT she was the girliest of the twins...
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Helaena: Like embroidery and dancing, voice so beautiful the wildlife sing with her, scheming for ideal future romance. 6ft6 brickhouse with muscles to benchpress Unwin Peake and his three castles.

Aelora: Like to play in the dirt, fistfight bear and stag for fun, want to defeat Rhaenyra in single combat to become heir. 4ft11 scrawny knife goblin researching Visenya tome for magical HRT.
 
A_Somebody said:
I mean yeah sure Meta says the family tree needs to be pruned but how do you marry off all your daughters to old geezers _who already have full grown sons so any children wont get jack shit_.
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That was literally just Viserra, and I would point the finger to Alysanne here. Yes, Daella also married an old geezer, but that was of her own (limited) choosing. Jaehaerys' attitude seems to have been "as long as they marry lordly, they can marry whomever", which still isn't building marriage alliances, but it's also kinda not caring about marriage alliances in the first place, instead of doing them badly.

And with Viserra... I do think that was Alysanne's bugbears. I think a lot of Alysanne's actions can be explained by the death of Daenerys, who absolutely was her favourite child, while she showed far less love to later children. Daenerys' death hit her hard, and it also meant that Aemon had to marry outside the family (...relatively speaking...). So instead, she then began to see Daenerys in Alyssa, despite the girl being completely different, and consequently saw herself and Jaehaerys in Alyssa and Baelon. She basically outright shipped her children, and anything threatening that ship, even after Alyssa's death had to be dealt with. I mean, the hypocrisy is pretty blatant: She chides Viserra for wanting a political marriage for herself to Baelon, instead of a love match... only to then want to wed her off in a political marriage. One of far lesser importance, too.

So I do think this was Alysanne's idea to get her out of Baelon's orbit. Jaehaerys allowed a free choice of husbands to Saera and Daella (with the caveat that Daella should never have been married off to begin with).
 
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Susano said:
But that was mostly Regnar Baratheon's and Alyssa's doing. And later on, Regnar did change his mind and wanted to enthrone Aerea
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It is Rogar not Regnar. Additionally Rogar only "changed his mind" because he was againist Jaehaerys incestous marriage and he had been booted off the small council by his wife Alyssa.
 
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Somic said:
Rhaenys has a good reason to be Skeptical, as the one who's been passed over before. I do hope she'll come around to the believing in girlboss victory squad eventually (still haven't watched HOTD, idk how it went for her there), although that would just mean that she has a decent claim herself... anyway, that doesn't really affect my opinion on the Laenor marriage either way, surprisingly.
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Pardon me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rhaenys in canon basically shoot herself in the foot by choosing too good of a husband, I believe, because she liked him? Like, Jaehaerys was already an asshole, let's not lie to ourselves, but especially at the end of his life he would be worried because Rhaenys temperament IIRC is nothing like Rhaenyra, and unlike Rhaenyra, she's a proper lady and not a hunk that can and WILL kick your ass if you start talking shit about her not being Heir. Wasn't he worried Corlys would make the Iron Throne the Velaryon's in all but name?

Has there been any in-canon explanation as to why Rhaenys didn't just marry Viserys instead? Honestly knowing the man she would've wore the pants in the relationship anyways (lol) and it would unite both claims.

I suppose maybe she was just drinking her dad's kool-aid that, against all precedence, she would definitely get to inherit with no issues whatsoever and so it didn't matter who she married?


Susano said:
If it is the "order of things", it is only because Rhaenys let it be. She had and has a dragon. At the time of the Great Council, she was one of only two dragonriders in the whole wide world. She and Meleys would only have needed to go against Daemon and Caraxes upon Jaehaerys' death. If she had won that challenge, Viserys' claim would have crumbled to dust. Wherever the lords and lords paramount stand, whatever armies they bring to the field, it doesn't matter if one side has a monopoly on dragons. She could have gone to war against the Council's decision upon Jaehaerys' death. She chose not to. That is the only reason why it is the "order of things".
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All my knowledge comes from the ASOIAF wiki and fics, but didn't Rhaenys in the show essentially held the Greens at Dragon-point at the very start if the Dance and she just went "bye"?

edit: what I mean to say, is Rhaenys personality even one to just decide "Treason it is then" and start straight-up a civil war? And also, did her and Meleys ever actually got fighting experience, to jump straight to fighting Daemon, who rode her father's mount, back then? Like in the show she says something, I think, along the lines of "here we go again old girl" to Meleys but when would she have fought... I'm guessing during the Stepstones deal? Since Rhaenyra is a lot more of a natural fighter and even she wasn't allowed as a young girl to go fight
 
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UrbanAvena said:
Aelora: Like to play in the dirt, fistfight bear and stag for fun, want to defeat Rhaenyra in single combat to become heir. 4ft11 scrawny knife goblin researching Visenya tome for magical HRT.
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Well, to be fair, Dream!Aelora seemed to be rather... maybe not meek, but exhausted and sad, and kind to Rhaenyra. I don't think she quite has it in her to be a knife goblin, unless either the dream was at the point of her future-maybe-life where she was tired of fighting, or it was merely one possible path for her, and the metaphorical (and literal) dice landed differently.
 
Somic said:
Well, to be fair, Dream!Aelora seemed to be rather... maybe not meek, but exhausted and sad, and kind to Rhaenyra. I don't think she quite has it in her to be a knife goblin, unless either the dream was at the point of her future-maybe-life where she was tired of fighting, or it was merely one possible path for her, and the metaphorical (and literal) dice landed differently.
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I counter that Knife Goblin can be exhausted, sad, and kind too. :V

In seriousness, I eagerly await our relationship with Aelora and Helaena both. Whether it involve fist fighting Bear or not.
 
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Temes1066 said:
It is Rogar not Regnar. Additionally Rogar only "changed his mind" because he was againist Jaehaerys incestous marriage and he had been booted off the small council by his wife Alyssa.
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Other way round. He got booted as Hand and de facto leader of the realm because he tried to replace Jaehaerys. And yes, this was about how Jaehaerys had eloped with Alysanne. But the fact remains - even when somebody of importance did support Aerea, for whatever reason, it was her own grandmother who cut that short.
 
Here's where things stand. If there's not a big stream of voters I will probably close it later today.
Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Feb 21, 2025 at 7:42 AM, finished with 125 posts and 39 votes.
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