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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Ah well. I guess with having gone for the wrong interaction options before, I can't really claim to have an insight into how other characters see things. I'm just gonna concede this and hope things work out anyway...

(still firmly believe there's no point in a duel though)
 
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Somic said:
Rhaenys has a good reason to be Skeptical, as the one who's been passed over before. I do hope she'll come around to the believing in girlboss victory squad eventually (still haven't watched HOTD, idk how it went for her there), although that would just mean that she has a decent claim herself... anyway, that doesn't really affect my opinion on the Laenor marriage either way, surprisingly.
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Canonically Rhaenys dies by dragonfire while fighting for Rhaenyra's claim:
 
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Mystic Pentagram said:
Agree, he is not a fighter and wouldn't enjoy it. And when he loses, it would embarass him in front of both his vassals and ours.
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And even if he is a fighter who would genuinely enjoy a friendly bout of sparring, we are very openly and obviously one of the best warriors in Westeros, so us challenging a visiting ruler of a different country to a fight would probably be seen as nothing but an attempt to show dominance, since the skill disparity isn't in doubt anyway. There's not even a genuinely new experience in it for either of us, save for a different style of fighting, probably.
 
Somic said:
There's not even a genuinely new experience in it for either of us, save for a different style of fighting, probably.
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It is mainly fun except the new style as you said. Though that is also really marginal as Qoren is not the best of example of the style available. I just realized a curiosity
Teen Spirit said:
You saw sigils for house Qorgyle, Dayne, Fowler and Santagar behind the prince.
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Question @Teen Spirit
Did the Current Sword of the Morning part of the delegation?
 
Teen Spirit said:
Rhaenys expression grew serious.

"That would mean war," she said with complete sincerity.
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As the Greeks say...

Alors, c'est la guerre

If it is the "order of things", it is only because Rhaenys let it be. She had and has a dragon. At the time of the Great Council, she was one of only two dragonriders in the whole wide world. She and Meleys would only have needed to go against Daemon and Caraxes upon Jaehaerys' death. If she had won that challenge, Viserys' claim would have crumbled to dust. Wherever the lords and lords paramount stand, whatever armies they bring to the field, it doesn't matter if one side has a monopoly on dragons. She could have gone to war against the Council's decision upon Jaehaerys' death. She chose not to. That is the only reason why it is the "order of things".

Which, I think, is an object lesson to us. We should not be afraid to use force to defend our rights, and should not leave them up to the lords of the realm, who are our lesser.

So in that vein...

"The man's behavior was abhorrent for sure," Lord Strong acknowledged, "and your actions did strengthen Lady Jeyne's position well, removing a key figure of opposition without her being marked as a kinslayer, something that would not have been possible otherwise, but you have undermined your position in the process. To the realm at large, you seem easily provoked and emotional."
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And otherwise the realm at large would not have taken notice, but still just seen the weak woman in us. If we have to choose, being perceived as prickly but dangerous is still the less bad reputation to have. Ultimately, Aegon didn't win the kingdom by laws, either, but by dragons and force.

And speaking of that...

Somic said:
How is it a threat to let him ride a dragon?
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To quote the venerable Septon Barth, the longtime Hand of our great-grandfather Jaehaerys here:

"The power of the Targaryens derives from their dragons, those fearsome beasts who once laid waste to Harrenhal and destroyed two kings upon the Field of Fire. King Jaehaerys knows this, just as his grandsire Aegon did; the power is always there, and with it the threat. His Grace also grasps a truth that Queen Rhaena does not, however; the threat is most effective when left unspoken. The lords of the realm are proud men all, and little is gained by shaming them. A wise king will always let them keep their dignity. Show them a dragon, aye. They will remember. Speak openly of burning down their halls, boast of how you fed their own kin to your dragons, and you will only inflame them and set their hearts against you."
(from Fire and Blood)

Just casually showing how awesome the power of flight alone is, and what advantage it grants you, without uttering any overt threats at all... that would fall squarely into that tradition. And that is how it could, and even likely would be taken. The threat is always there, and the lords will remember. Princes as well.
 
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UrbanAvena said:
Question @Teen Spirit
Did the Current Sword of the Morning part of the delegation?
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There isn't always one around, of course. Sword of the Morning is not part of the titles of the Lord of Starfall, but the title of whatever Dayne is worthy enough to wield Dawn. And there isn't always one around.

Somic said:
My knowledge of canon is still shaky, but wouldn't Caraxes squarely win that?
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Depends. Not if Rhaenys uses Meleys' superior speed to strike first. Both Daemon and Corlys had already been gathering troops for their pet pretenders by the time of the Great Council, so she could have ignited that fire. But even if true, then it still would have not been up to what men will or won't accept, but indeed purely to dragons.

Random Member said:
That's an assumption. And even if it were true, that just makes him sound like the kind of guy we shouldn't want as our husband.
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...why? The plan was that this is a purely political marriage, and all the political arguments still stand regardless of his nature.

Besides, it's not like Alicent is a fighter, either. Not everyone has to be.
 
Somic said:
Press X for doubt. I don't think Rhaenyra can only ever have a good relationship with men who want to fight her. Respect for her fighting ability is enough.
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Susano said:
...why? The plan was that this is a purely political marriage, and all the political arguments still stand regardless of his nature.
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Rhaenyra's feelings have nothing to do with my argument, only the fact that we live in an extremely martial society where the King(-Consort)'s ability as King(-Consort) is directly equated to his ability to stab people with the pointy end.

Hence why I'm pretty sure Qoren is still a fighter of some kind, it's basically a job requirement. (And no, I don't think Dorne differs on this matter from the rest of Westeros.)
 
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TheBarrometer said:
Yeah that tracks. Rhaenys should be Queen right now. And then her grandfather changed the rules because he's a sexist prick (there's no other explanation that makes sense imo). I think she's an important advisor and mentor to us about the patriarchy
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There is another explanation, namely that he himself had stepped onto the throne over the rights of another woman. By law and right, the best claim to the throne was held by Aegon the Uncrowned's eldest daughter, Aerea. It was a completely analogous situation: The daughter of the firstborn son vs the line of the secondborn son. So there might have been the consideration that choosing Rhaenys might have delegitimized his own kingship, even though Aegon the Uncrowned's line had long since gone extinct at that point

(and if you wanna change Aerea's fate, see my link :V )

Random Member said:
Rhaenyra's feelings have nothing to do with my argument, only the fact that we live in an extremely martial society where the King(-Consort)'s ability as King(-Consort) is directly equated to his ability to stab people with the pointy end.

Hence why I'm pretty sure Qoren is still a fighter of some kind, it's basically a job requirement.
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By that logic, the same would apply to being Prince of Dorne, and yet here he is. And for that matter, Viserys was never much of a fighter, either. Not even much of a dragonrider, since he chose the one moribound dragon they had at the time. And yet still his reign was never challenged once established (granted, as I explained, this may have been in large parts due to Daemon and Caraxes, which might be one reason Viserys lets him get away with everything).

Bottom line is, while society appreciates a fighter, they won't simply topple non-fighters with legitimacy. And added to that, we always have the concern that we don't want to be overshadowed by our husband, which is always a threat. If we were to defend our right to rule based on his fighting, then that would be a dangerous shift in power dynamics. So it is alright if our husband is not a fighter, I'd say.
 
I rather like the harp option, but I dunno how Alicent would feel about us seranading someone else :V

We really need to have a serious talk with her about how the relationship with her will intersect with Rhaenyra's future marriage and if she's okay with Rhae being close to her spouse instead of just dutiful.
 
Susano said:
There isn't always one around, of course. Sword of the Morning is not part of the titles of the Lord of Starfall, but the title of whatever Dayne is worthy enough to wield Dawn. And there isn't always one around.
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Canon Dorne is out of focus in this era so we don't know if Dawn is wielded or not and can fall either way in quest. It is just a curiosity of mine if they are here or not.

And my Lamentation for missing the Duel Action if Sword of The Morning is indeed part of the delegation. :cry:

Somic said:
My knowledge of canon is still shaky, but wouldn't Caraxes squarely win that?
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It is a close fight currently and lean Rhaenys a little at Viserys coronation as Rhaenys have greater relative experience advantage at the time. The dragon have similar age but different specialization so can not be directly compared and not directly advantageous against one another.
 
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