honestly im voting martell simply because tat would be the most ifficult to arrange, Gwayne is the easiest by far which is why hes much lower, like negotitions wouldnt be that long for him www
Gwayne also has a head start on his competitors in some ways, by having broached the topic of marriage with us (n.b., we chose to talk with him, he brought up the topic) and not just with Daddy the way Qoren and Harwin have. On the other hand, ultimately Viserys will be making the decision. Patriarchy's a bitch.
 
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The Starks are 8000 years old - you REALLY telling me they've NEVER had a ruling Queen?

No, GRRM has even explicitly used the Starks as an example of being continued through the female line several times. Hell, we even have an example in the books - once Harry Hardying takes over the Vale, he will be Harry Arryn.

That is how you get 8000 year old houses despite the combination of non-Salic succession and patrilinearity, which is a really, really dumb combination, anyway - because it means every so often you do run into the problem of a single child daughter inheriting the lands, and then you need to make special arrangements to preserve the name. IRL, even British nobility used Salic succession, it was only the crown which didn't (and even then that was only really fixed in the 18th century, well after the middle ages).

But the ruling houses are so established in Westeros, nearly always those special arrangements will in fact be made - people are usually going out of their way to maintain the family names of established houses, especially of course Great Houses. If you inherit, say, the Golden Tooth, you will call yourself Lefford for the sake of legitimacy, even if you had another family name before, and that goes doubly so for Lords Paramount. So whenever you do have a daughter inheriting (which, again, is not that uncommon), chances are you will get some degree of matrilinearity.

And as @Teen Spirit mentioned, there was an arrangement in place here, too. It's just...

It's still completely stupid. What is Driftmark compared to the Realm? The rank difference is boggling, and yet the kids still get the Velaryon name as default? Who the everloving fuck negotiated that trash of a marriage agreement??? At the very least the default should have gone the other way around.
 
He also has a head start on his competitors in some ways, by having broached the topic with us (n.b., we chose to talk with him, he brought up the topic) and not just with Daddy the way Qoren and Harwin have. On the other hand, ultimately Viserys will be making the decision. Patriarchy's a bitch.
Yep. We're lucky Viserys is a hopeless romantic as well (something something apple from the tree) and wishes us to be happy, and that we're not enamored with any option he'd actually disapprove of.
 
It's still completely stupid. What is Driftmark compared to the Realm? The rank difference is boggling, and yet the kids still get the Velaryon name as default? Who the everloving fuck negotiated that trash of a marriage agreement??? At the very least the default should have gone the other way around.
Isn't in canon it is combination of Viserys weak negotiation and Rhaenyra's folly with Daemon? So the negotiating position is weaker. If we initiate it now with Laenor Corlys probably doesn't have as much leverage and his name will be able to negotiated away. It could also be Otto that negotiated it or advised Viserys in its negotiation. Though Idk how it happened in regard to his banishment. Someone that is greatly benefited by the misfortune in canon sequence of events and arrangement.

If we want to act regarding Velaryon we must circumvent Corlys by informally interacting with Rhaenys, Laena, and Laenor who are more reasonable and less prideful and personally empowering them. It bound Corlys only in formal sphere while his family can act freely unless he swallow his pride. Gon't give Corlys small council seat instead give Rhaenys, bestow honor to Laenor and Laena but not Corlys. Empowering his family but not him personally will weaken his grip as head of family and will slow him down to concede some of his ambition to maintain unity with his personally stronger family member.
 
d as @Teen Spirit mentioned, there was an arrangement in place here, too. It's just...

It's still completely stupid. What is Driftmark compared to the Realm? The rank difference is boggling, and yet the kids still get the Velaryon name as default? Who the everloving fuck negotiated that trash of a marriage agreement??? At the very least the default should have gone the other way around.
Combo of Corlys basically making house Velayron as close to peer power as one could get with pre dance house Targaryen. And Viserys being a bit desperate to get her married after the Daemon scandal
 
Huh. So being in competition with the Prince of Dorne for the hand of a Rhaenyra with a reputation that is controversial, but not in that direction, might make Corlys's position weaker than in canon. Or he might say "fuck it we ball" and offer Laena to Daemon instead.
 
Huh. So being in competition with the Prince of Dorne for the hand of a Rhaenyra with a reputation that is controversial, but not in that direction, might make Corlys's position weaker than in canon. Or he might say "fuck it we ball" and offer Laena to Daemon instead.
No reason he can't throw his kids at both us and Daemon.
 
Voting Closed New
Yeah I don't see this changing by morning so I'm closing it now

Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Feb 14, 2025 at 12:40 AM, finished with 175 posts and 83 votes.
 
WE'RE GONNA MEET HIM YES YES YES
I'm unbearably excited (and still hoping for that dragon ride) (listen kingslanding is best appreciated from a distance)
 
So... this isn't a finality over who we wed, but merely starting to negociate? We can still change our mind as to who we marry at the end? Did I get that correctly?
 
Oh nice! I'm excited to see Qoren— I haven't really seen him fleshed out but I'm imagining him to be a cheeky magnificent bastard, judging by how he sneaked in that subtle jab at Viserys like a slimy car salesman

"WAIT, you don't rule my people, but here's a quick, five-step guide on how you COULD!" which amounts to "Hey Vizzy T, can I marry your hunk, beautiful, warrior daughter?"

lol

Also, I love how Ser Tarly is going to feel betrayed by his own ideals :lol::rofl:

"YEARS OF TRAINING, ONLY FOR THE SAME TRAINING TO LEAD HER INTO HIS ARMS!"

That aside, I'm actually pro-Gwayne and pro-Laenor mostly.

They've got the most benefits and Laenor's downside is pretty small compared to Harwin "My Brother is an Intrige-stat monster and desperately wants me dead" Strong. If all else fails, they can "tour the free cities" and if a male Lys courtesan happens to get into their bedroom, well, that's a coincidence.

Whereas Gwayne's benefits honestly stem mostly from our need to keep Alicent unmarried, though I'll admit that the possible "I'll marry Alicent" threats worry me in how Otto'd have us by the hypothetical balls with that.

On the other hand, Gwayne would 100% be the most on-board with serving as the beard, personally invested on protecting his little sister AND also justifies keeping Alicent so much around. We'd need to talk it out with Alicent since she may not follow the Targaryen school of thought, which is:

"Always marry whoever you want; unless you can marry your sibling, then always marry your sibling"

TL;DR all options are too good... if I like a candidate a lot particularly I may do a sketch once I have the time!
 
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Qoren Martell: I have to thank you Ser Tarly for having trained my bride so well, without you i would have never discovered my love for her!

Ser Tarly: *internal screaming*
Rhaenyra: Ser Tarly, I have decided to start marriage negotiations with Qoren Martell.
Tarly's thoughts: Kill Dornish. Behead Dornish. Roundhouse kick a Dornish into the cobblestones. Slam dunk a Rhoynar-blood into the dungpiles. Crucify filthy Dornish. Defecate in a Dornish's food. Launch Dornish into the sun. Stir fry Dornish in a pan. Toss Dornish into the Fourteen Flames. Urinate into a Dornish steed's mouth. Twist Dornish' heads off. Report Dornish to the King's Confessors. Chop Dornish in half. Curb stomp pregnant Dornish. Trapple Dornish in quicksand. Eat Dornish. Dissect Dornish. Stomp Dornish skulls with sabatons. Cremate Dornish in wildfire. Lobotomize Dornish. Mandatory moon tea for Dornish. Drown Dornish in casks of Arbor Gold. Vaporize Dornish with dragonfire. Kick old Dornish down the stairs. Feed Dornish to lizard-lions. Slice Dornish with a Valyrian Steel Swords....
Rhaenyra:...Ser Tarly, are you alright? You've been staring at nothing for a few minutes. Should I fetch the Maester?
Tarly, grinding his teeth: Sorry my princess. I am just....so...happy.....for you.
 
If all else fails, they can "tour the free cities" and if a male Lys courtesan happens to get into their bedroom, well, that's a coincidence.
...I completely failed to realize that Laenor could fly to Essos WITH Rhaenyra. If he was around at the time, surely nothing untoward could possibly have happened, right?
though I'll admit that the possible "I'll marry Alicent" threats worry me in how Otto'd have us by the hypothetical balls with that.
That would make him the second person who Really Should Not find out that Rhaenyra is dating Alicent. Although with less devastating consequences than Johanna "Raging Homophobe" Targaryen...

I wonder if somehow negotiating on Alicent's behalf with lesser bribes than marriage could work? There may be a very real threat of her getting married off to Unwin Peake.
 
Eh.

Unwin: "...why is there a yellow dragon over Starpike?"
I have a happy mental image of Syrax picking him up in her claws and flying over a variety of terrifyingly spiky landscapes. Mostly because I don't actually remember any dragons ever doing that... not enough fine control, probably?
 
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