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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Simon_Jester said:
I think that Rhaenyra would much rather have this resolved, work hard to make up her mind quickly, and then be able to announce her decision and get on with her life, than dawdle over the decision for a couple of years while she pursues other things.

A reputation for decisiveness will also help restore Viserys' confidence in Rhaenyra, which is a good thing to cultivate given that for the next 10-15 years he's going to be in a position to give us orders. If he knows he can trust us to make a decently good decision quickly without being pressured and prompted, it may well be less likely that he feels the need to make such decisions for us, or exercise his power to force our hand.
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I believe that there are important and time sensitive issues besides just marriage, self improvement, and romance, and we'd be fools to neglect them.

Viserys is frustrated, not doubting us. We've pushed boundaries and complicated relations with the Lords of westeros. Those relations will cool over time, as will Viserys's frustration, and we would be doing more to appease him by learning from the Lord strong and getting along with our stepmother and siblings than rushing to have a marriage sorted out a year and change ahead of time, but there are complications to the latter and some effort to resolve them would be worthwhile.
 
Randino Treviani said:
I believe that there are important and time sensitive issues besides just marriage, self improvement, and romance, and we'd be fools to neglect them.

Viserys is frustrated, not doubting us. We've pushed boundaries and complicated relations with the Lords of westeros. Those relations will cool over time, as will Viserys's frustration, and we would be doing more to appease him by learning from the Lord strong and getting along with our stepmother and siblings than rushing to have a marriage sorted out a year and change ahead of time, but there are complications to the latter and some effort to resolve them would be worthwhile.
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And we should also start looking for a way of helping with Viserys health, and since that sidemission kind of starts by talking to the medic who is treating him we should try to speak with the Great Maester next turn (especially if we ant to face our fears in Harrenhal soonish so that we may try to poach Alys Rivers)...

Seriously if we manage to push Viserys death by only a handful of years would help us inmesnly...
 
Randino Treviani said:
we would be doing more to appease him by learning from the Lord strong and getting along with our stepmother and siblings
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Tbh, that part is very true. I've been anxious to get on with the law training, and Johanna would probably look at us more favorably if we occasionally come to chat, inquire after her health and the children, etc. - and that in turn would be a source of Stress requiring more actions to counter, probably music. At least visiting Johanna is a Conversation, meaning that all of the above at the same time would not entirely tap out the Actions we can take without adding on more Stress...

Fanhunter696 said:
And we should also start looking for a way of helping with Viserys health, and since that sidemission kind of starts by talking to the medic who is treating him we should try to speak with the Great Maester next turn (especially if we ant to face our fears in Harrenhal soonish so that we may try to poach Alys Rivers)...

Seriously if we manage to push Viserys death by only a handful of years would help us inmesnly...
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We really can't do anything about this one. From a metagaming perspective, TS really doesn't want us to metagame, and in-universe Viserys's health is only beginning to decline, which doesn't quite say "he is definitely going to die". From a capability perspective, Rhaenyra is Very Much Not a medic, she doesn't have any unique insights to contribute, and TS also said that trying too hard to stave off our father's health decline is likely to produce the opposite result. That's not our wheelhouse.
 
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Somic said:
We really can't do anything about this one. From a metagaming perspective, TS really doesn't want us to metagame, and in-universe Viserys's health is only beginning to decline, which doesn't quite say "he is definitely going to die". From a capability perspective, Rhaenyra is Very Much Not a medic, she doesn't have any unique insights to contribute, and TS also said that trying too hard to stave of our father's health decline is likely to produce the opposite result. That's not our wheelhouse.
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We have just seen how our viserys has lost two fingers despite continuing assurances that he was recovering so talking with the court medic is an extremely reasonable thing to do...

That is more than enough IC reason for Rhanyra to start looking into things, because even from a "Very Much Not a Medic" prespective it is clear that his father is not getting better than the tratement he is recieving is not particulary effective... And as someone that loves her father very dearly and has the resources to afford it, trying getting a second opinion doesn't seem far fetched at all...
Somic said:
Tbh, that part is very true. I've been anxious to get on with the law training, and Johanna would probably look at us more favorably if we occasionally come to chat, inquire after her health and the children, etc. - and that in turn would be a source of Stress requiring more actions to counter, probably music. At least visiting Johanna is a Conversation, meaning that all of the above at the same time would not entirely tap out the Actions we can take without adding on more Stress...
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I agree that biting the bullet and speaking with Johanna is something we should do soonish, but we sould definitively also take [] [Action] Investigate Your Harrenhal Dream and avance that sidestory ASAP that we can make sense of that dream and we stop being so stressed over poor Aelora...
 
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I'd like to state I'm not looking to delay the marriage. I'm fine taking a related conversation or marriage action four times a year. That's looking like a minimum twelve actions or conversations by the time the progress finishes and the marriage can occur, which should be more than enough.
ComiTurtle said:
I'm very much against the Leanor match, but I truly believe that Viserys without also including Otto isn't the best person to get our first bit of outside opinion on marriage candidates, so I've added Rhaenys to my approval voting. Rhaenys is an experienced and powerful individual, she has had a long marriage to her husband who is also powerful, but quite ambitious. Based off her conversations in the show with young Rhaenyra I suspect she will be reasonable in her opinions on what we should consider. Again I'm not into the Leanor match and this is a step towards it, but she I suspect has greater sense than Viserys in terms of what matches would seem reasonable or detrimental, and even if they are biased towards Velaryon interests at least we learn where their heads may be at, when not dealing with the more hot-headed and blind ambition of her husband.
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There is also the point to be made that this is likely our only chance to speak to just Rhaenys. We all know Corlys has issues with Betrothals or promises of marriage. Laenor Marriage has enough supporters that it being considered eventually is inevitable, but we can at least leave the self serving ambitious father out of the initial talks. Viserys wants us to deal with this, but he'd probably be more pleased to have us come to him having narrowed the list further than the 4 likeliest candidates than from the outset.
TheBarrometer said:
With the way actions and thread focus in this thread works anything other than getting the legwork done now means getting distracted by the next shiny object. Long term planning and SV are like oil and water /hj
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We are all aware of this, but our success with the knighting and with the progress says we can be kept on task, and I've achieved the same in other quests. It'll certainly be an effort, but as pointed out we have wiggle room to try. I find discussing and mapping out our goals after a turns end but ahead of the next turns arrival and re-clarifying facts for voters helps a good deal.

Fanhunter696 said:
I agree that biting the bullet and speaking with Johanna is something we should do soonish, but we sould definitively also take [] [Action] Investigate Your Harrenhal Dream and avance that sidestory ASAP that we can make sense of that dream and we stop being so stressed over poor Aelora...
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Agreed, especially since the window to visit Harrenhall and seek answers there about the situation will close when winter arrives.
 
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Fanhunter696 said:
I agree that biting the bullet and speaking with Johanna is something we should do soonish, but we sould definitively also take [] [Action] Investigate Your Harrenhal Dream and avance that sidestory ASAP that we can make sense of that dream and we stop being so stressed over poor Aelora...
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Somic said:
Tbh, that part is very true. I've been anxious to get on with the law training, and Johanna would probably look at us more favorably if we occasionally come to chat, inquire after her health and the children, etc. - and that in turn would be a source of Stress requiring more actions to counter, probably music. At least visiting Johanna is a Conversation, meaning that all of the above at the same time would not entirely tap out the Actions we can take without adding on more Stress...
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Randino Treviani said:
I'd like to state I'm not looking to delay the marriage. I'm fine taking a related conversation or marriage action four times a year. That's looking like a minimum twelve actions or conversations by the time the progress finishes and the marriage can occur, which should be more than enough.

There is also the point to be made that this is likely our only chance to speak to just Rhaenys. We all know Corlys has issues with Betrothals or promises of marriage. Laenor Marriage has enough supporters that it being considered eventually is inevitable, but we can at least leave the self serving ambitious father out of the initial talks. Viserys wants us to deal with this, but he'd probably be more pleased to have us come to him having narrowed the list further than the 4 likeliest candidates than from the outset.

We are all aware of this, but our success with the knighting and with the progress says we can be kept on task, and I've achieved the same in other quests. It'll certainly be an effort, but as pointed out we have wiggle room to try. I find discussing and mapping out our goals after a turns end but ahead of the next turns arrival and re-clarifying facts for voters helps a good deal.


Agreed, especially since the window to visit Harrenhall and seek answers there about the situation will close when winter arrives.
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Great points. Let me make some Draft plan from previous turn options. If next turn option change we can add or remove it

This focus on Dream with investigation, speak to Viserys about dream, and visiting Johanna and our sister. I also include Rhaenys to complete our senior House member with 3 2 convos, 1 action, and 3 available Flex. The possible flex from the discussion are Look Into Marriage, meeting small councilor especially Lord Strong for Law mentorship, Alicent date and Study. For the marriage I put Rhaenys and Qoren as fleeting political opportunity but not Alicent Gwayne to let our relationship mature a bit first.

I have some interest in Study History with Viserys and/or Study Visenya that may synergize with Dream investigation but not including in the draft as it seems tangential at best to the discussion.

[] Draft plan: On Dream and Family Obsolete
-[] [Conversation] Speak With Queen Johanna Westerling
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Rhaenys Targaryen
-[] [Action] Investigate Your Harrenhal Dream

-[] Flex
--[] [Action] Look into Marriage Options
---[] Rhaenys/Qoren
--[] [Alicent] A Trip To Dragonstone
--[] [Action] Study Music
--[] [Action] Study
--[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyonel Strong
--[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyman Beesbury
--[] [Conversation] Speak with Otto Hightower

Edit* Forgot we already vote Viserys this turn for the dream thank @Zimmerwald1915 for correction. Also adding music that I forget too.

New Draft Plan for new closed vote
[] Draft plan Family Music and Law
-[] [Conversation] Speak With Queen Johanna Westerling
The earlier we face Aelora, Helaena, and Johanna the better to endear them as sisters and to prevent a new faction.
-[] [Action] Investigate Your Harrenhal Dream
Synergizing with meeting Aelora and speaking w/ Viserys in previous turn. We can meet Alys too of we go to Harrenhal and can sic her on Daemon ass.
-[] [Action] Study Music
Our dilligent commitment and reducing our stress.
-[] [Conversation] Speak with Lord Lyonel Strong
Start our promised mentorship with Master of Law and sound out his objection with Harwin as consort
-[] [Action] Look into Marriage Options / -[] [Conversation] Speak with Rhaenys Targaryen
--[] [Marriage] Speak with Rhaenys Targaryen
Rhaenys is a safe outside perspective for us and may even become mentor to help prepare us.
-[] [Alicent] A Trip To Dragonstone
Date with Alicent. Advancing our relation with Alicent to be able to talk about our future together.
 
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Voting Closed
  • Voting
    • The Vote is Closed
    Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Feb 12, 2025 at 8:26 PM, finished with 160 posts and 72 votes.
    [alicent] [steffon] [marriage] [defiant]
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  • Voting
    • Randino Treviani said:
    I'd like to state I'm not looking to delay the marriage. I'm fine taking a related conversation or marriage action four times a year. That's looking like a minimum twelve actions or conversations by the time the progress finishes and the marriage can occur, which should be more than enough.
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    Fanhunter696 said:
    It is not "putting off" the marriage, it is simply to avoid to mono focus on it for the next 2-3 years and do other stuff...
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    To be honest, we should aim for a wedding to be conducted as soon as spring starts, as soon as people can travel again and are not starving anymore. An early marriage has advantages for us, too. If the marriage comes with political options, like Dorne, we can play them earlier, for example, and it would fortify our position as an heir, especially once we have a child of our own. The way Westerosi society is fucked up, most girls are married before they reach adulthood, so a marriage at 18 or 19 would already be considered "late", which could make people anxious about the line of succession if we are the heir. And I know many here don't want to hear that, but it would also be good to have children early on, as the current bottleneck for dragon riding is not dragons (Aegon the False chose Sunfyre's egg out of seven sent from Dragonstone), but indeed Targaryens.

    This wouldn't just be to satisfy Viserys' demands. It would be good for our own political position, too. So it would be good if we have sorted out whom to marry within a year or so.

    TheBarrometer said:
    In the book canon Rhaenyra kept refusing options and putting it off and so Viserys chose for her and he chose "stability" aka Laenor for her.
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    To be fair, in the book and show canon Viserys was also a whole lot more fed up with Rhaenyra.

    Fanhunter696 said:
    And we should also start looking for a way of helping with Viserys health, and since that sidemission kind of starts by talking to the medic who is treating him
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    Sorry, but this kinda feels like Quester brain. This "side mission" formulation alone - not everything is a side mission we can solve. Teen Spirit pretty much said that if we wanted to do anything about Viserys' illness, we would have needed to take the Scholar path. Wasting actions on this now would be counterproductive. The setting world is not just our personal challenge where we can solve everything.

    (also, while we may do so because he is our father, I also don't quite see how this would "help us immensely").
     
    Susano said:
    Sorry, but this kinda feels like Quester brain. This "side mission" formulation alone - not everything is a side mission we can solve. Teen Spirit pretty much said that if we wanted to do anything about Viserys' illness, we would have needed to take the Scholar path. Wasting actions on this now would be counterproductive. The setting world is not just our personal challenge where we can solve everything.

    (also, while we may do so because he is our father, I also don't quite see how this would "help us immensely").
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    He has also said in the same post that whereas stopping his disease is impossible that there are things that can speed up or slow down the progression of his illness...

    And yeah he also told us to avoid metagaming, but honestly to be worried about his health and try to find a better healer seems totally IC for Rhaenyra or any daughter who loves his father.

    Susano said:
    (Aegon the False chose Sunfyre's egg out of seven sent from Dragonstone)
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    Really? IIRC Aegon bonded with an juvenile dragon as Rhaenya did, AFAIK he didn't hatched Sunfyre
     
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    Susano said:
    To be honest, we should aim for a wedding to be conducted as soon as spring starts, as soon as people can travel again and are not starving anymore.
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    We have to finish the progress first, as it's set to resume when spring arrives.
    Susano said:
    This wouldn't just be to satisfy Viserys' demands. It would be good for our own political position, too. So it would be good if we have sorted out whom to marry within a year or so.
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    This is a wild assertion and plays more to impatience to have the issue resolved than any realistic expectations or necessity. Complete the marriage, consolidate support for the marriage, carry it out the moment spring arrives, birth children within a year if at all possible. Just a series of excessive hyper focus goals that make it like the marriage is sole priority.
     
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    Teen Spirit said:
    Okay why are you guys thinking you have to finish your progress before you can marry?
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    I thought the progress and marriage as big events that invite many people and don't want to divide the guest attention between preparing to host progress and attending the marriage. Do Viserys meant for us to marry before we restarted our progress?
     
    Weird idea: If our progress takes us to the Iron Islands, pay all our personal expenses out of the tournament winnings.

    Because those goddamn loonies are big on "the iron price" and the gold we got by winning a tournament arguably qualifies. Might win some respect points.

    Susano said:
    Sorry, but this kinda feels like Quester brain. This "side mission" formulation alone - not everything is a side mission we can solve. Teen Spirit pretty much said that if we wanted to do anything about Viserys' illness, we would have needed to take the Scholar path. Wasting actions on this now would be counterproductive. The setting world is not just our personal challenge where we can solve everything.

    (also, while we may do so because he is our father, I also don't quite see how this would "help us immensely").
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    I do think it would be reasonable and in-character to at least look into the question of whether his healers are doing a good job and whether we can get a second opinion.

    UrbanAvena said:
    I thought the progress and marriage as big events that invite many people and don't want to divide the guest attention between preparing to host progress and attending the marriage. Do Viserys meant for us to marry before we restarted our progress?
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    Would it be a bad thing if we did marry before restarting our royal progress?
     
    Fanhunter696 said:
    Really? IIRC Aegon bonded with an juvenile dragon as Rhaenya did, AFAIK he didn't hatched Sunfyre
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    Uhhh... ah yes, right sorry. He wanted a replacement dragon after Sunfyre, and Dragonstone's maester sent him seven eggs to choose from. Point is, seven eggs, which were in themselves a selection from an even larger collection.

    The bottleneck is indeed Targaryens right now, not dragons.

    Randino Treviani said:
    This is a wild assertion and plays more to impatience to have the issue resolved than any realistic expectations or necessity. Complete the marriage, consolidate support for the marriage, carry it out the moment spring arrives, birth children within a year if at all possible. Just a series of excessive hyper focus goals that make it like the marriage is sole priority.
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    It is an assertion I backed with arguments. It maybe isn't strictly necessary, and you can say it would be highly focused, very optimized towards a goal instead of living live... but you can't deny that it would in fact be to our advantage.
     
    Randino Treviani said:
    This is a wild assertion and plays more to impatience to have the issue resolved than any realistic expectations or necessity. Complete the marriage, consolidate support for the marriage, carry it out the moment spring arrives, birth children within a year if at all possible. Just a series of excessive hyper focus goals that make it like the marriage is sole priority.
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    I mean... the marriage is kind of one of the central definitive Big Fucking Deal choices of Rhaenyra's entire life and the decisions she makes in the year or two right before and after the marriage are going to be huge and life-altering.

    So, uh, yes, treating that as by far our top priority with everything else being secondary stuff we pursue on the side is actually rather sensible.

    Unfortunately, being an aspiring monarch in a world dominated by dynastic feudal politics means you can't afford to take the attitude of "relationships are something you have after you're happy with everything else in your life." Because the consequences of that can come back to bite you on the ass.
     
    UrbanAvena said:
    I thought the progress and marriage as big events that invite many people and don't want to divide the guest attention between preparing to host progress and attending the marriage. Do Viserys meant for us to marry before we restarted our progress?
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    Well as I understand it he stongly advises us to have a formalized betrothal by Spring, and that if we want we can do another Royal progress once Spring arrives...

    Both things are independent...
    Simon_Jester said:
    Would it be a bad thing if we did marry before restarting our royal progress?
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    I suppose that he would prefer for Rhanyra to be married before the Progress because then the Progress would serve to present the new king and queen to the realm, but if the betrothal is in place he woudn't have much of a problem to have the wedding after the Progress...
     
    UrbanAvena said:
    No it is not. Only the limited time to prepare it.
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    Well, the progress is something I think can reasonably be delayed for several months or a year without it being a major problem as far as I can tell. It's great that we get to do it but it's not an emergency. But really, I think that as long as we don't drag out the decision-making process, getting married in late Winter or early Spring should be entirely achievable for us.

    Fanhunter696 said:
    Honestly I would put one action every other turn, that is more than enough to speak with all the 4 real candates and, Alicent, and other possible advisors (especially if we can use the Talk actions to do so)...
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    I don't mind using Talk actions to amp things up, but honestly I see no reason to delay. In terms of specific things that we have actually made binding commitments to do, "pick a suitor" and "study law" are the only two things on the list. And the former is a commitment to a family member who is also the only person in Westeros who can give us orders. I'd take "pick a suitor" seriously and want to commit to spending an action on it every turn. That's not mono-focus, that's about the minimum for "this is the most important thing to the character at the moment."

    Randino Treviani said:
    I believe that there are important and time sensitive issues besides just marriage, self improvement, and romance, and we'd be fools to neglect them.
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    Would you care to be more specific about what you have in mind?

    Viserys is frustrated, not doubting us. We've pushed boundaries and complicated relations with the Lords of westeros. Those relations will cool over time, as will Viserys's frustration, and we would be doing more to appease him by learning from the Lord strong and getting along with our stepmother and siblings than rushing to have a marriage sorted out a year and change ahead of time, but there are complications to the latter and some effort to resolve them would be worthwhile.
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    I think you're egreatly underestimating how big an elephant in the room "marry and produce heirs" is for a medieval dynast.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Okay why are you guys thinking you have to finish your progress before you can marry?
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    I assumed Rhaenyra's Diligent trait would have her eager to resume the progress and prevent her putting it off past the arrival of spring. Work not left even half finished and the frustration over her own ambitions getting in the way of her plans as it were.

    Simon_Jester said:
    Unfortunately, being an aspiring monarch in a world dominated by dynastic feudal politics means you can't afford to take the attitude of "relationships are something you have after you're happy with everything else in your life." Because the consequences of that can come back to bite you on the ass.
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    And no one is suggesting we kick the can down the road until spring arrives or some such, just that we can approach the situation with moderate investment without it falling apart on us because of circumstances.
    When something is too rigid, it is more likely to break rather than bend because it lacks the flexibility to deform under pressure, causing it to snap suddenly when stress exceeds its breaking point
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    Inflexibly insisting on Marriage being some all consuming priority which we must focus on to the exclusion and detriment of all other priorities and irrelevant of the time we have available to work on it is going to create more issues than it resolves.
    Susano said:
    It is an assertion I backed with arguments. It maybe isn't strictly necessary, and you can say it would be highly focused, very optimized towards a goal instead of living live... but you can't deny that it would in fact be to our advantage.
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    I can infact assert that I do believe that ultimately letting a number of problems sit and fester for the sake of tackling the marriage as hard as we can is liable to backfire, resulting in a situation where we are politically sounder in terms of our push for the throne but have let several issues become more difficult to resolve do to opportunities neglected and relations allowed to sour. I am not advocating that we ignore it. The saying is "All things in moderation, even moderation."

    I see no harm in working on the marriage. I see much harm in treating it as some grand foe to be slane no matter the cost.
    Simon_Jester said:
    Would you care to be more specific about what you have in mind?
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    The vision and removing the stress factor of spending time with Johanna and the twins, a token effort to get someone more competent than the High Maester Buffoon who failed to save a number of members of the royal family in his tenor treating Viserys to at least delay his passing a handful of turns, further effort to consolidate what members of the city watch and small council behind us to further complicate any future attempt to overturn our heir status. The last admittedly can wait a turn, perhaps two given Redfort, but I would prefer to do something before the end of the year, especially if we are seriously considering marriage candidates besides Hightower(I can't get his name wrong if I don't use it :V).
    Simon_Jester said:
    I think you're egreatly underestimating how big an elephant in the room "marry and produce heirs" is for a medieval dynast.
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    I think your allowing a canon outcome to narrow your focus on what is and isn't important. I know how important those are, but there is a difference between due diligence and obsessive fixation. We've done due diligence by getting to work on it immediately. We can take a more moderate approach for the remainder of the year.
     
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    Randino Treviani said:
    The saying is "All things in moderation, even moderation."
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    That's a very generalized statement. Too abstract to really apply.

    Like - which problems? What exactly is it we would let fall to the wayside that is so important? Trying to find ways to heal Viserys is foolish, and beyond that - we managed to make time for our girlfriend this turn, despite voting for the exploration of marriage options and talking to Gwayne. We can function normally even while focusing on the marriage. And I frankly do not see overly large pressing concerns we need to tackle right now other than the marriage.

    And in fact, let us not forget that what you have been complaining about so far has in fact only been one action and one conversation. This is not overly taxing on the action economy. It is simply our current focus, but it is not, as you would present it, drop everything on the spot and only caring about the marriage anymore. That is merely our priority right now, nothing more. And it is good to have a priority and a plan!

    So as I see it, we are still very moderate, you'd just have us not have a priority at all. For which there is absolutely no reason. I mean, if nothing else, "Dilligent" alone will force us to also spend time on other matters. But we can absolutely spend at least one action, probably indeed one action and one conversation, on marriage matters every turn for now.

    Because there truly is nothing more pressing right now than the marriage.

    I think your allowing a canon outcome to narrow your focus on what is and isn't important. I know how important those are, but there is a difference between due diligence and obsessive fixation. We've done due diligence by getting to work on it immediately. We can take a more moderate approach for the remainder of the year.
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    No, Simon wasn't speaking so narrowly (and while I am not him, I do feel very confident in saying that). It isn't about canon. Hell, it isn't even about just satisfying Viserys. Dynastics are basically the most important thing for any monarch or monarch-to-be. That is a general thing. Hence as Simon says: In feudal societies, in general. This is a general "this setting" thing.

    And as I have said, it is about our own advantages as well, not just satisfying Viserys' demands. We should want to focus on the marriage for our own political good, not for Viserys' sake.
     
    Randino Treviani said:
    I assumed Rhaenyra's Diligent trait would have her eager to resume the progress and prevent her putting it off past the arrival of spring. Work not left even half finished and the frustration over her own ambitions getting in the way of her plans as it were.

    And no one is suggesting we kick the can down the road until spring arrives or some such, just that we can approach the situation with moderate investment without it falling apart on us because of circumstances.
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    The problem is that you're defining "moderate investment" in a weird way. Rhaenyra has three 'talk' and three 'act' actions per turn. Spending, say, one 'talk' and one 'act' on her Big Project each turn IS 'moderate,' if you ask me.

    Inflexibly insisting on Marriage being some all consuming priority which we must focus on to the exclusion and detriment of all other priorities and irrelevant of the time we have available to work on it is going to create more issues than it resolves.
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    Randino, please, miss me with that strawman.

    The vision and removing the stress factor of spending time with Johanna and the twins, a token effort to get someone more competent than the High Maester Buffoon who failed to save a number of members of the royal family in his tenor treating Viserys to at least delay his passing a handful of turns, further effort to consolidate what members of the city watch and small council behind us to further complicate any future attempt to overturn our heir status. The last admittedly can wait a turn, perhaps two given Redfort, but I would prefer to do something before the end of the year, especially if we are seriously considering marriage candidates besides Hightower(I can't get his name wrong if I don't use it :V).
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    The vision is an important problem but one we can address over the course of several turns. Getting a better doctor is going to matter if we ignore it for 2-3 years, but it isn't something we're blocking out by spending 1/1 on settling the marriage like we did last turn. Consolidating the City Watch and Small Council is very, very much a long term goal, because there's no way in hell we'll get overturned as heir due to their influence in the next year or two unless we deliberately do something screwbally.

    I don't think it's a great idea for us to move much below 'one talk, one act' or maybe just 'one act' per turn on marriage-focused actions for the sake of those goals.
     
    The way I see it, the only marriage-related thing that would complicate the Progress if done before it is pregnancy. We can probably put that one off until we're done roaming the Realm. (Unless Rhaenyra is so confident in her health and lack of plans to get into any serious fights that she just breezes through the rest of the Progress during the first couple trimesters? Probably wouldn't be wise from her perspective, considering that both her mother and her stepmother struggled so much...)

    Marriage itself though? That would only shore up our position and give us time to deal with all the related complications.
     
    Simon_Jester said:
    Consolidating the City Watch and Small Council is very, very much a long term goal, because there's no way in hell we'll get overturned as heir due to their influence in the next year or two unless we deliberately do something screwbally.
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    Yes and I favor minimal focus on it. 2 Cs or As or some variant there of per year.
    Simon_Jester said:
    The vision is an important problem but one we can address over the course of several turns.
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    If we don't get back to Harrenhall soon we may find our path forward delayed by winter.

    Simon_Jester said:
    Getting a better doctor is going to matter if we ignore it for 2-3 years, but it isn't something we're blocking out by spending 1/1 on settling the marriage like we did last turn
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    I think spending a third of our economy on it every turn until it's done is pretty heavy spending, especially if another third is defaulted to self improvement and romance most turns.
    Simon_Jester said:
    I don't think it's a great idea for us to move much below 'one talk, one act' or maybe just 'one act' per turn on marriage-focused actions for the sake of those goals.
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    I feel the same way about spending a third of our C/A of our economy on this consistently until It's done. I can see maybe 4 more C/A actions this year at a stretch. Anything more is overkill.
     
    Anyway, my rough ideas for next turn if nothing major changes...

    Conversation: Qoren (assuming letters count as conversation), Johanna, ?Alicent?
    Action: Law, Music, Harrenhal

    Reasoning:
    Qoren is the only prospective husband we have had no contact with and haven't met the family of. I am deeply, deeply curious.
    Johanna and her children are vitally important to stay on good terms with, and it'll take a great deal of effort, which is better to start now.
    Alicent I just want to ask how she feels about our marriage options... is it too early for the poly conversation? Who knows.

    Law is a commitment, and while taking three months to deal with everything else in the wake of disrupted plans is fine, any more would be pushing it. Are we diligent, studios, and serious about taking a position on the Small Council in time, or not?
    Music is for work-life balance. We're at what, 28 Stress now? And visiting Johanna would only add to it.
    Harrenhal we gotta deal with sometime, especially if we start interacting with Aelora again. Rhaenyra is a woman of action, formless dread doesn't suit her.
     
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