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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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ComiTurtle said:
The strife that happens within the Reach when the Dance begins would be more easily quelled and turned to the enemy side when the Reach is flanked by both the Westerlands and the Stormlands which I feel are rougher groups to turn and more generally unified.
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I feel Stormland is more unified than Reach but they are easier to turn than Westerland that will have inherent material political lean into Johanna and the Reach which is too big to ever turn fully. In canon many Stormland loyalties in various rebellion rely greatly on personal charm, connection, and passion. None exemplify this more than Laughing Storm short lived rebellion that ended with his head intact and a Princess for a gooddaughter.

Stormlander may be turned to loyalty from properly applied personal charm and accurately targeted reward. Especially with our strained personal relation with Borros that may be reversed with personal action too.

Ensuring Stormland loyalty is most important in any Diplomatic action regarding Dorne as it form a direct land route to Kingslanding. Together with Crownland and Dorne, Stormland formed proper containment against Reach strength. Once again highlighting Daeron II move in tying Dondarrion, A Marcher Stormlander, into Loyalist side before 1st Blackfyre.
 
I'm not sure where the idea comes from that the Lannisters will raise all the Westerlands to elevate one of their vassals over themselves. If Helaena or Aelora, or a future sibling of theirs, betrothes or marries a lion, then we should be worried, and we should work to prevent such a thing before it ever occurs (by marrying or betrothing them to our kids, natch).
 
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Pretty clear where it's going but I will leave open until the morning just in case

Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Mar 6, 2025 at 2:55 AM, finished with 262 posts and 98 votes.
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Zimmerwald1915 said:
I'm not sure where the idea comes from that the Lannisters will raise all the Westerlands to elevate one of their vassals over themselves. If Helaena or Aelora, or a future sibling of theirs, betrothes or marries a lion, then we should be worried, and we should work to prevent such a thing before it ever occurs (by marrying or betrothing them to our kids, natch).
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I think you have a mistaken assumption of the discussion of Westerland. It is not about Lannister raising all their vassal but that Westerling Queen may have enough influence to bring many of Westerland house into her bloc even without Lannister. It may even change Lannister political calculus without outright marriage. Westerland have a growing influence in court since Johanna marriage like noted below.
Teen Spirit said:
Another topic of gossip and conversation was the growing Westerland influence at court. A number of knights and minor nobles had followed the new queen and the Master of Ships to court and a fair few of them had no intention of leaving, becoming all but permanent fixtures in the Red Keep like some of the minor nobles of the Crownlands. And of course, the merchants of the city were quite happy with the influx of Lannister gold. The Dragons still dominated of course but the changes were unmistakable.
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Teen Spirit said:
The Red Keep seemed much the same as you left it, though you were noticing more men from the Westerlands around than when you left.
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y'know, i'm not actually sure how the makeup of the court is decided.
Johana is the queen, so obviously all her Westerland picks go through. Qoren would be the husband of the princess and heir, so his Dornish picks go through as well, up to a certain point.

Rhaenyra has enough on her plate right now, but how would we go about reducing Westerling influence at court in the future, without relying too heavily on the Dornish portion of court?
 
CharlieKing said:
y'know, i'm not actually sure how the makeup of the court is decided.
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Entirely by the King's authority. In a legal sense, the court with all servants and permanent courtiers is literally is household. It is literally just scaling which separates a personal household, a lord's keep and a royal court.

Of course, a king may delegate authority, so de facto Otto will have a great say about it - but only by Viserys' authority. And of course, the King best take into account political sensibilities and blocs. He also needs to take into account the honour and dignity of people according to their proper standing, like the Queen he just married.

But at the end, who gets to stay at court and who gets invited to it, who gets to have positions at court and who doesn't, that is all the King. In Westeros at large, he is a feudal ruler, but at court he is an absolutist monarch because it is literally his own household.
 
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Zimmerwald1915 said:
I'm not sure where the idea comes from that the Lannisters will raise all the Westerlands to elevate one of their vassals over themselves. If Helaena or Aelora, or a future sibling of theirs, betrothes or marries a lion, then we should be worried, and we should work to prevent such a thing before it ever occurs (by marrying or betrothing them to our kids, natch).
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(Spoilers for Fire & Blood)


The historical Dance is an interesting demonstration of this- the Tyrells very conspicuously stayed neutral, and a solid chunk of the Reach actually broke for Rhaenyra. The main Hightower army spent a solid chunk of the early war just putting down revolts in their home territory- arguably it's the Westerlands and Stormlands that carry the Greens for a while (and also the Blacks repeatedly deathgripping the idiot ball- Fire & Blood is not exactly GRRM's greatest work, lol)
 
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Voting Closed
  • Voting
    • And Voting is Closed. Well This is going to be very interesting

    Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Mar 6, 2025 at 11:27 AM, finished with 272 posts and 99 votes.
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  • Voting
    • I will say while its still highly likely for those lords to rebel against us for the Dorne marriage. Its not like Viserys is going to die immediately, baring some wild random events.

    There is still time to use the power of diplomacy to try and smooth things out. And while its unlikely to fully work its still something to turn our attention to.
     
    Tomsawyer18 said:
    I will say while its still highly likely for those lords to rebel against us for the Dorne marriage. Its not like Viserys is going to die immediately, baring some wild random events.

    There is still time to use the power of diplomacy to try and smooth things out. And while its unlikely to fully work its still something to turn our attention to.
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    I mean, the easier argument to make with the marcher lords is "if i marry the Prince of Dorne and bring Dorne into the fold, you guys aren't going to be raided a couple of times every generation".
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    And Voting is Closed. Well This is going to be very interesting

    Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Mar 6, 2025 at 11:27 AM, finished with 272 posts and 99 votes.
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    And Sir Tarly offers Rhaenyra his sword to take Qoren's hand.
     
    I hope the Pro-Qorenites are prepared to face, Daemon and Laena who have major Reacher & Stormlander backing in the future Dance.
     
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    The Stormlanders are a lost cause at this point. We might be able to salvage something in the Reach if we can bring Tarly and Otto onside, but it will take a determined effort and no small amount of luck.
     
    Yeah Daemon marrying Laena would gain the Backing of quite possibly the Richest man in Westros.

    But he'd still be weighed down by being a huge asshole. And money can only get you so far in getting people to fight and die all for someone nobody likes being their new king.
     
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