The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For those voting for the "My children will rule Dorne in time and they will be Dragons. Through blood, Dorne will be conquered." Tarly option, can you explain why you think this argument would ever sway Tarly? I just see it as nearly antagonistic to him.
The write-in isn't a perfect response, mostly because I don't think there really is one for both placating him, continuing the marriage, and not leading to needless bloodshed. But much earlier in the Vale Rhaynera sided with the Honor aspect of what makes a Knight a knight, and while yes that isn't Tarly's way that he suggested at the time, its certainly something he would understand and may have some respect for, even if he doesn't like the decision, I don't think he can majorly fault it. Tarly isn't getting out of this conversation with everything he wants, but I'd prefer he doesn't feel like we're trying to out-smart him with rhetoric.
The write-in isn't a perfect response, mostly because I don't think there really is one for both placating him, continuing the marriage, and not leading to needless bloodshed. But much earlier in the Vale Rhaynera sided with the Honor aspect of what makes a Knight a knight, and while yes that isn't Tarly's way that he suggested at the time, its certainly something he would understand and may have some respect for, even if he doesn't like the decision, I don't think he can majorly fault it. Tarly isn't getting out of this conversation with everything he wants, but I'd prefer he doesn't feel like we're trying to out-smart him with rhetoric.
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Because it emphasizes hierarchy, House Targaryen's dominance, and Dorne's subordination, and thus will hopefully convince Tarly that we intend not to be overmastered by the wily Martell. Emphasizing the courtesy due a defeated opponent cuts against the idea of domination and subordination; a knight who yields in the lists is still a social equal, roughly speaking, and a foe who surrenders on the battlefield is still due certain rights. But dragons do what they like.
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
Tarly hope of strong terms make me think about what terms would be best to accept, reject, and demand. When going over pro and con of hostages, it make me see something. The Dornish court Blackfyre derided Daeron II for bringing? Many of those are probably hostages. "Ward", "Handmaiden", "Courtier", and such like. But because Daeron II is a courteous diplomatic king, not rapist like Aegon IV or rapist-enabler like Daeron I, and treat his hostage well may be it isn't acceptable for Blackfyre supporter that maintain their main claim through being truer heir of Aegon IV "the Unworthy."
Pro of hostage is if both side are really dealing in good faith and mutual respect, the diplomatic fiction become real. The ward become adopted son and brother, handmaiden become trusted companion, or at the very least good acquaintance. In a world where Balon Greyjoy is just a little bit better father, Theon Greyjoy really is beloved companion of Robb Stark and respected ward of Ned Stark.
Pro of hostage is if both side are really dealing in good faith and mutual respect, the diplomatic fiction become real. The ward become adopted son and brother, handmaiden become trusted companion, or at the very least good acquaintance. In a world where Balon Greyjoy is just a little bit better father, Theon Greyjoy really is beloved companion of Robb Stark and respected ward of Ned Stark.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And even if Qoren gives us terms that we like, but Raylon doesn't, then from Raylon's perspective Dorne didn't really bow and bend, they ran circles around the royal family. Just as he warned us they would.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
That is the crux of the issue, because while I want to go all in hard on family demands, in return I would be willing to be absolutely lenient in terms of "realm politics" (though Viserys maybe less so) - i.e., for all I care Dorne can have the greatest extent of autonomy. After all, they joined voluntarily.
Which is why we can't promise subjugation to Tarly. For one thing, it would be unrealistic to promise, and for a second, even if we could enable that, we abso-fucking-lutely shouldn't.
So, yeah. Let Dorne have the same autonomy in canon, that did work out after all.
Voting Closed
New
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay I think voting has slowed down enough for me to close it.
- Pronouns
- Reader
Wow. The weird assertion that a conquest by blood would mean a damn thing to tarly has won. Fingers crossed he's at least willing to keep his peace on the matter.
With Tarly it's a bit difficult because his reaction is good old fashion generational hate and racism for flavor plus fear of an unknown path. I think he's underestimating Rhaenyra and to an extent undermining the training as a knight he's given her. That probably isn't his intent but it's how it comes across whether he realizes it or not. Rhaenyra may need to ask Tarly to trust her and the training he's given her as well as point out the practical reasons for her decisions.
For Alicent I view it as two fold type of answer. Rhaenyra and Alicent are in no way normal when it comes to each other, they are to put it mildly intense. Rhaenyra offered to leave Westeros if only Alicent had asked. Like in the show they're smack dab in the middle of a full scale war with each having lost children/grandchildren and they're still trying to talk to each. So they will always have an impact on each other no two ways about it. So with that in mind I think telling Alicent that she can't imagine a life without her in it is pretty on point, no matter what Alicent will always matter to her, will always have her love.
The 2nd part it giving Alicent a secure future regardless of what happens to Rhaenyra herself. In ye olden day women did this by asking for jewelry which in case of anything happen to thier spouse/lover they have a means to support themselves. Jewelry was considered a woman's property and under her control. So Rhaenyra can provide the first right off the bat to show her willingness to provide that security. The other thing she can do it provide land which is specifically under Alicent's name and control not Otto, not house Hightower but specifically Alicent. It would probably take some time but Rhaenyra has that especially since she isn't married yet. The best way to do it is with her own personal money and not with the crowns money. I'm not sure where the lands would be but again they have time to figure it out with that Alicent would have her own income, lands to live on and pass down to who she chooses even possibly knight in her service. Rhaenyra would essentially be setting up Alicent to be independent even of Rhaenyra herself is she so chooses because what is important to her that she is happy ad safe. Of course Alicent herself would need to present herself as not just a companion and lady in waiting but a valued adviser and aid to explain why Rhaenyra has gifted her with such independence. Something I think she can definitely do if given a chance.
For Alicent I view it as two fold type of answer. Rhaenyra and Alicent are in no way normal when it comes to each other, they are to put it mildly intense. Rhaenyra offered to leave Westeros if only Alicent had asked. Like in the show they're smack dab in the middle of a full scale war with each having lost children/grandchildren and they're still trying to talk to each. So they will always have an impact on each other no two ways about it. So with that in mind I think telling Alicent that she can't imagine a life without her in it is pretty on point, no matter what Alicent will always matter to her, will always have her love.
The 2nd part it giving Alicent a secure future regardless of what happens to Rhaenyra herself. In ye olden day women did this by asking for jewelry which in case of anything happen to thier spouse/lover they have a means to support themselves. Jewelry was considered a woman's property and under her control. So Rhaenyra can provide the first right off the bat to show her willingness to provide that security. The other thing she can do it provide land which is specifically under Alicent's name and control not Otto, not house Hightower but specifically Alicent. It would probably take some time but Rhaenyra has that especially since she isn't married yet. The best way to do it is with her own personal money and not with the crowns money. I'm not sure where the lands would be but again they have time to figure it out with that Alicent would have her own income, lands to live on and pass down to who she chooses even possibly knight in her service. Rhaenyra would essentially be setting up Alicent to be independent even of Rhaenyra herself is she so chooses because what is important to her that she is happy ad safe. Of course Alicent herself would need to present herself as not just a companion and lady in waiting but a valued adviser and aid to explain why Rhaenyra has gifted her with such independence. Something I think she can definitely do if given a chance.
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
Agree 100%. For light consideration, we can probably push on the Prince title though. There is a loophole that may allow us to bestow Lord Paramount of Dorne title over Prince of Dorne one.
Aegon I bestowed Lord Paramount to Tully, Baratheon, and Tyrell all non-Kingdom house. With Dorne being a Principality maybe we can pull a technicality here.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Counterpoint: "Prince of Dorne" sounds cool
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
That would cut into our own flesh, though. After all, we would get that title. As a consort, but still.Agree 100%. For light consideration, we can probably push on the Prince title though. There is a loophole that may allow us to bestow Lord Paramount of Dorne title over Prince of Dorne one.
Aegon I bestowed Lord Paramount to Tully, Baratheon, and Tyrell all non-Kingdom house. With Dorne being a Principality maybe we can pull a technicality here.
Now granted, you can say we already have a princely title, but "Princess of Dragonstone and Dorne" still sounds cool
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
Prince/Princess of Dorne does sound cool.
Another vain petty thing for Rhaenyra to ask is renaming Prince's Pass into Rhaenyra's Pass or Princess's Pass. As monument to our Conquest.
Another vain petty thing for Rhaenyra to ask is renaming Prince's Pass into Rhaenyra's Pass or Princess's Pass.
As monument to our Conquest.