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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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[X] [Tarly] Write-in (Subject to QM Approval) "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. They will bow and they will bend. Or I will break them. "
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"
[X] [Tarly] "I have final say on the terms of the marriage and I will not accept a deal I find too lenient to Dorne."
A combination of these - I voted to support a Dorne marriage on the basis that terms too favourable to Dorne would be rejected and instead there would be a conquest.

Basically Dorne WILL be brought into the fold and it's a lot easier to try to arrange a marriage first and then if that fails via war rather than the other way around.

I'm sure Qoren is smart enough to realise that that's the overarching idea, he either bends the knee via marriage on fair terms or gets conquered in a decade or so.
 
Morning has arrived and I'm finding it no easier to choose. Oh well. Have a joke vote in the meantime, because I want this option to properly overtake the "I couldn't handle any other man" one :V
[X] [Tarly] "Dorne will be pacified by the strap."
 
[X] [Tarly] "My children will rule Dorne in time and they will be Dragons. Through blood, Dorne will be conquered."
[X] [Alicent] "You are my dearest friend, no matter what happens with our relationship that will hold true and I will always be there for you."
 
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"

[X] [Alicent] "You have a place in my heart and that will never change. I will fight to keep you by my side."

I want to keep this very simple. Otto may not consent to his daughter being Rhaenyra's de facto concubine for life, and I don't want to make the stability of Alicent's place in Rhaenyra's heart contingent on his approval. Alicent is the focus of Rhaenyra's romanticism, so Rhaenyra is literally deadly serious about her and committed to that, and that's that.

Doesn't mean she WON'T talk to Otto about it all, but that's not the big-deal natural response to your sweetie saying "are you serious about me, is this real?"

[X] [Alicent] "You are dear to me, both as a friend and a lover. I wish for us to be together forevermore, no matter what form our relationship should take. So, please. Have faith in me, that I have fought for our love, and shall continue to do so."

This is OK too.
 
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[X] [Alicent] [Defiant] Tell her you will speak to her father and work out a deal to keep her by your side as long as she wishes.

[X] [Tarly] "My children will rule Dorne in time and they will be Dragons. Through blood, Dorne will be conquered."
 
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"

[X] [Alicent] "You have a place in my heart and that will never change. I will fight to keep you by my side."
 
Simon_Jester said:
Otto may not consent to his daughter being Rhaenyra's de facto concubine for life, and I don't want to make the stability of Alicent's place in Rhaenyra's heart contingent on his approval.
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Otto can agree to this and make the heir to the throne indebted to him, as well as securing a very high position for one of his children, for life. Or he can refuse, anger the heir, cut off this line of influence through Alicent, and gain... what? What marriage prospects does Alicent have that would outweigh all that?
 
[X] [Tarly] "I have final say on the terms of the marriage and I will not accept a deal I find too lenient to Dorne."
[X] [Tarly] Write-in (Subject to QM Approval) "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. They will bow and they will bend. Or I will break them. "
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"
 
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"
[X] [Tarly] Write-in (Subject to QM Approval) "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. They will bow and they will bend. Or I will break them. "

I very much think one of the above (preferably the top one) is a much stronger choice for Tarly than the whole Dragons are winning Dorne by blood. That one is much too cute and cheeky to be a proper response to Tarly's disdain with this idea in general and the feeling of betrayal to his wish about Dorne. Appealing to him as a Knight isn't appeasing him but may steady him, this also supports are statements that only after our knightly success has Dorne begun to waver and change their obstinance. This subjugation of Dorne is not one of violence but of the fear of it.

As for Alicent, as I am interested in generating a proper romantic relationship with Qoren, while also maintaining the Alicent one, I sort of want to suggest polycule type things because uneven relationships mess with my head, but probably not really the time to bring that idea up, and otherwise I don't have a strong enough opinion to vote on the matter.
 
Somic said:
Otto can agree to this and make the heir to the throne indebted to him, as well as securing a very high position for one of his children, for life. Or he can refuse, anger the heir, cut off this line of influence through Alicent, and gain... what? What marriage prospects does Alicent have that would outweigh all that?
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I mean, he could just be against it on grounds of being generically homophobic, or really want Alicent pumping out grandkids, or something. I dunno. It's definitely a gamble.

ComiTurtle said:
As for Alicent, as I am interested in generating a proper romantic relationship with Qoren, while also maintaining the Alicent one, I sort of want to suggest polycule type things because uneven relationships mess with my head, but probably not really the time to bring that idea up, and otherwise I don't have a strong enough opinion to vote on the matter.
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Well, if Alicent just isn't into guys that much... [shrugs]
 
People don't always make the cold, calculated decision to act only in their political best interest. Even people like Otto Hightower and Tywin Lannister. Talking to him directly is a risk even if he does only stand to benefit from the arrangement.
 
[X] [Tarly] "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust? What type of knight i would be then? You taught me to be better than just a simple brute in armor."

[X] [Alicent] "I cannot claim i know what the future holds for us, but right here and right now you have a very special place in my heart, and i don't see that changing anytime soon. This is not just me "having fun", as your brother might think, i consider our relathionship something serious and i will fight to keep you by my side Alicent."
 
[X] [Tarly] Write-in (Subject to QM Approval) "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust? What type of knight i would be then? You taught me to be better than just a simple brute in armor."

[X] [Alicent] [Defiant] Tell her you will speak to her father and work out a deal to keep her by your side as long as she wishes.
 
Okay, I know I might really regret this later, but
[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"
I like this one more, because I still think that giving a dragon to Dorne is as much a negative as it is a positive, depending on what exactly you care about (and I mean, I'm wholeheartedly in favor, I just don't think it reeeeally works as an argument for subjugation, on a deeper level... they refused to bend and they got a dragon for it like lol)
(not that Tarly knows anything about our terms yet, but I still wanna be consistent)
(assuming our father keeps that requirement in play and blah blah blah)
 
I really do not think that "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?" is going to be a line of reasoning he will be receptive to. It's thought of directly by Rhaenyra here.
Teen Spirit said:
"On their terms," Tarly said firmly but politely. "Do you think this Prince Qoren will join if your father offers anything but the most favorable terms to Dorne? His Martell pride demands he remain unbent and unbroken. The only way to get Dorne to submit properly is through steel and fire."

"Do you think my father would agree to unreasonable terms?" You asked simply, not wanting to chide your sworn shield too much for the implications of his words.

"Of course not," Ser Raylon's reply was quick. "But Prince Qoren is a man who is skilled with words. I could see him selling an unfair deal to even the sharpest mind."
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And she doesn't seem to think that scolding him of bloodlust is something she wants to be doing, nor does Raylon seem to think much any terms in the first place.
Teen Spirit said:
"Then we should wait and force him to kneel in the burning sands!" Ser Raylon said sharply, the anger that had been building inside him finally bursting out. "We should force Dorne to pay for their centuries of crimes against both our families, not bring them to the table and break bread with them."
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No, what he wants is said very plainly right here. He actively wants their blood and scolding him for it seems to me to be a guaranteed way to piss him off.
 
[ ] [Alicent] [Defiant] Tell her you will speak to her father and work out a deal to keep her by your side as long as she wishes.
I wanted to persuade people once again to not vote The Defiant Promise. Please vote any of the other reassuring option.
First The Alicent vote is the vote to reassure Alicent and Rhaenyra have observed this bold promise may not be what Alicent want. Not the vote of what is our next step. A focus on reassurance is better in my opinion.

Second this is a promise to choose to Speak with Otto for negotiation an option we already able to take freely on our own term. Below is the option available from previous turn with added emphasis. The Defiant Promise only added urgency for the negotiation ASAP.
Teen Spirit said:
[] [Conversation] Speak with Otto Hightower
Otto was neither your friend or your enemy when it came to matters with Prince Qoren, he did not seem to oppose the marriage per say but he did seem somewhat skeptical of the matter. Otto's support would help a lot when it came smoothing over the anger this marriage would not doubt cause in the Reach and the Stormlands. And perhaps it's time to speak to him directly on matters concerning Alicent.
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Choosing The promise our relationship under the risk of limited AP both to negotiate with Otto and the AP or political power needed to pay Otto's demand. We are also currently under the ongoing marriage negotiation which may need mandatory AP investment to ensure favorable outcome.

In my opinion it is better to approach Otto at Rhaenyra and Alicent own time after we have prepared ourself by strategizing with Gwayne and Alicent first and having something concrete to negotiate with Otto.

Thank you for the attention and consideration.
 
[X] [Tarly] "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust? What type of knight i would be then? You taught me to be better than just a simple brute in armor."

[X] [Alicent] "You are dear to me, both as a friend and a lover. I wish for us to be together forevermore, no matter what form our relationship should take. So, please. Have faith in me, that I have fought for our love, and shall continue to do so."

I believe these are the best ones that takes in consideration their respective sensibilities.
 
[X] [Alicent] [Defiant] Tell her you will speak to her father and work out a deal to keep her by your side as long as she wishes.

[X] [Tarly] "Whatever the terms, Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust?"
 
[X] [Tarly] Write-in (Subject to QM Approval) "Make no mistake, this is a conquest of Dorne, a submission of Sunspear to the Iron Throne. Dorne yielded. Would you have me cut down a defeated, yielding enemy out of sheer bloodlust? What type of knight i would be then? You taught me to be better than just a simple brute in armor."

[X] [Alicent] [Defiant] Tell her you will speak to her father and work out a deal to keep her by your side as long as she wishes.
 
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