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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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I know this is a ridiculous idea, but I think it will be neat to add some Dornish memento to the Iron Throne after the unification. Whether it is more sword to complete the set or fabric to finally cushion the seat and symbolize the peaceful unification.
 
Teen Spirit said:
[] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)

[] Ask that only your heir be allowed to claim a dragon. (This is a Major Request)
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I was a bit confused that asking for more dragons is a smaller deal, but maybe it's because it's a hard sell for Dorne and so they'll fight more, because "minor requests" actually mean things Qoren will probably accede to without much of a fight. I think I get it.

[] Request control over where all your kids, save Qoren's heir, are raised. (This is a Major Request)
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Would we normally have NO control, or would there normally be a sort of negotiated balance?

[] Ask for a dragon pit to be built in Sunspear. (This is a Moderate Request)
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Ummmm.

Well, it's a big expensive construction project, so I can see why Qoren might push back. On the other hand, the presence of an actual dragon pit there makes it far more likely in the long run that Qoren's future heirs will be independent dragonriders in the style of the Velaryons, so I'm a bit surprised that there'd be this much pushback.

UrbanAvena said:
I know this is a ridiculous idea, but I think it will be neat to add some Dornish memento to the Iron Throne after the unification. Whether it is more sword to complete the set or fabric to finally cushion the seat and symbolize the peaceful unification.
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The problem there is that the Iron Throne is very much a symbol made out of the swords of conquered nations, literally welded together by sheer brute force of dragonfire.

It sends kind of the wrong message to get a bunch of Dornishmen's blades welded on after the fact given that we didn't actually conquer them.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I was a bit confused that asking for more dragons is a smaller deal, but maybe it's because it's a hard sell for Dorne and so they'll fight more, because "minor requests" actually mean things Qoren will probably accede to without much of a fight. I think I get it.
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Yeah, one of these ensures that the heir to Dorne doesn't get a dragon, the other ensures that they do. We're basically offering input on Viserys's side of the deal, asking him to negotiate for these things (whether he actually will is up to him ofc), and a position where Dorne ends up with a dragon is easier for him to negotiate for than the one where they definitely don't.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Well, it's a big expensive construction project, so I can see why Qoren might push back. On the other hand, the presence of an actual dragon pit there makes it far more likely in the long run that Qoren's future heirs will be independent dragonriders in the style of the Velaryons, so I'm a bit surprised that there'd be this much pushback
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Not only would it be expensive but from a Dornish perspective it means a permanent Valyrian structure occupied by agents of the Targaryen Dynasty in Sunspear
 
Simon_Jester said:
Oh good. I'm less worried about making sure we get that, then... though it sounds like it's super popular that we push for it.
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Honestly, I'd be fine with a negotiated balance. It's lacking control that worries me, and if the check-ins over the coming turn reveal that the negotiation is at a reasonable balance, I'll probably vote for Rhaenyra to say she's cool with it.
 
Simon_Jester said:
The problem there is that the Iron Throne is very much a symbol made out of the swords of conquered nations, literally welded together by sheer brute force of dragonfire.

It sends kind of the wrong message to get a bunch of Dornishmen's blades welded on after the fact given that we didn't actually conquer them.
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There is still the option for the Dornish cushion. A comfy throne symbolism for a comfy peace. :V
Somic said:
Honestly, I'd be fine with a negotiated balance. It's lacking control that worries me, and if the check-ins over the coming turn reveal that the negotiation is at a reasonable balance, I'll probably vote for Rhaenyra to say she's cool with it.
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This was my understanding that pushed me against the control request. We are marrying Dornisman. A person that by cultural acceptance of Female rulership have higher chance of havingbbetter and reasonable expectation regarding shared parenting between ruling Mother and Father.

I also fear we are needlessly alienating Qoren to ask this request. Especially as this being a Major request higher than Dragonpit in Sunspear being just moderate. A permanent Valyrian structure in the middle of Rhoynish city.

Though, If I may to ask Teen spirit to confirm some of the guessing.
Teen Spirit said:
[] Request control over where all your kids, save Qoren's heir, are raised. (This is a Major Request)
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Will this request strain our relationship with Qoren? Also is this mean if the request goes through Viserys can not override our wish on how to raise the children?
Thank you.
 
Thank you. For me this remove my main objection for control request of alienating Qoren but also my main draw of preventing Viserys meddling with the kid because he generally won't. For me the request then become ambivalently inefficient but narratively interesting.
 
Here's where things currently stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Zalicon1 on Mar 8, 2025 at 10:45 AM, finished with 162 posts and 39 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Think of the Children!
    -[X] Delay the actual wedding.
    --[X] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
    -[x] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[X] Request control over where all your kids, save Qoren's heir, are raised. (This is a Major Request)
    [X] Plan: Think of the Children! (Now with Royal Progress)
    -[X] Request Qoren to join you on your remaining royal progress. (This is a Minor Request)
    -[X] Delay the actual wedding.
    --[X] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
    -[x] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[X] Request control over where all your kids, save Qoren's heir, are raised. (This is a Major Request)
    [X] Plan: Don't ask for anything "Major".
    -[X] Delay the actual wedding.
    --[X] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[X] Ask for a voice on Stepstone matters. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[X] Request Qoren to join you on your remaining royal progress. (This is a Minor Request)
    -[x] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
    -[x] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)
    [X] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
    [X] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)
    [x] Plan flaming wedding bells!
    -[x] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
    -[x] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
    -[x] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
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Teen Spirit said:
No but it's likely to be a a subject of debate between Qoren and Viserys. And no, though unless we're a terrible parent Viserys isn't gonna control how we raise our kids
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Teen Spirit said:
Probably a negotiated balance
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OK I actually think that a negotiated balance would be pretty good for our children, so Ironically I am dropping both "For the Children" options from my plan...

[X] Plan: Don't ask for anything "Major".
 
[X] Plan: Equal Parenting
-[X] Delay the actual wedding.
--[X] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
-[X] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)

This is simply the Think of the Children plan without the major request of having full control of how all but 1 child is raised.

I honestly don't care about having a say on the step-stones, nor do I feel that we need to have Qoren on the Progress, in a variety of ways it would be good and others it would be bad. But mostly I feel the Progress should be more about us, and our position as the Heir to be, don't give them a man to consider as their next king.
Approval Voting
[X] Plan: Don't ask for anything "Major".
 
ComiTurtle said:
[X] Plan: Equal Parenting
-[X] Delay the actual wedding.
--[X] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
-[X] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)

This is simply the Think of the Children plan without the major request of having full control of how all but 1 child is raised.

I honestly don't care about having a say on the step-stones, nor do I feel that we need to have Qoren on the Progress, in a variety of ways it would be good and others it would be bad. But mostly I feel the Progress should be more about us, and our position as the Heir to be, don't give them a man to consider as their next king.
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same, i think it would be healthier for Rhaenyra's children to have good ties with their Dornish heritage. and it might make Dorne's intergration smoother in the next generation if the next ruling monarch can understand and identify with both cultural groups.

there will, of course, be ppl high and low that will hate them for being Dornish on principle; but fuck them anyway.
 
[X] Plan: Think of the Children!

[X] Plan: Equal Parenting

I can see the logic of not including the controlled upbringing option but I would think that's something we can talk to Qoren about.

Do the Martells still speak Rhoynish regularly at this point? They've been in Westeros longer than the Targaryen's so have had longer to lose certain cultural aspects. Just wondering if one of our kids will need to be trilingual or just not learn High Valyrian.
 
[X] Plan: Equal Parenting

[X] Plan: Foundation of a Reign

[X] Plan: Don't ask for anything "Major"
 
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@Teen Spirit
If I may ask about no cloaking and no bedding write-in request, what will we probably get if we don't ask for it? Also if we don't request it can we ask it in wedding prep? In Dorne marriage with women as the Head of House are more common so I wonder what balance Viserys and Qoren will push without the cloaking request.

[X] Plan: Foundation of a Reign
-[X] Delay the actual wedding.
--[X] Until the beginning of spring. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Ask that all of your children be allowed to claim dragons or given dragon eggs. (This is a Minor Request)
-[X] Request that all your children have the Name Targaryen, with Qoren's heir taking the Martell name upon succession. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Request absolute cognatic inheritance of both titles to be spelled out in the agreement. The firstborn inherits the Iron Throne, the secondborn Dorne, regardless of gender. (This is a Moderate Request)
-[X] Ask for a voice on Stepstone matters. (This is a Moderate Request)

This is Equal Pareting with Stepstone and Don't ask Major without Qoren Progress. As early pusher of co-parenting from the start I am gladdened more people support it. In the otherhand If I am allowed to convice people to Vote for Stepstone negotiation request. I feel neglecting it is a greatly missed opportunity and may let Daemon have a base to attack Qoren and Dornish.

Stepstone negotiation as a request is a request for Viserys to grant us more political power and influence. In previous discussion many were asking, how can we gain influence? This is one of the way how by actively involved in important negotiation we show that we have political power and influence over the realm. A seat at Stepstones negotiation is also the first time we will have direct control over the Realm situation like Teen Spirit said below, emphasis mine.
Teen Spirit said:
But again, Rhaenyra can only influence the agreement, not control it. With the Stepstones being an exception if you choose to get involved in that.
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In canon Viserys won't actively give Rhaenyra control and influence beyond defending her Claim. He even actively reduce her influence when he invite Otto back as Hand after Lyonel death despite it being the perfect time to appoint hid Heir, Rhaenyra, as Hand. This is still the same passive Viserys.

We must actively ask for more power and influence, just like how we asked for our Progress, like how we independently desired the small council seat, and like how we forced Viserys to knight us. Having a seat in Stepstone negotiation is asking Viserys to start sharing power and influence over the Realm and the world at large. Another importance of involving ourselves at the Stepstone is an early effort to weaken Daemon, ally Velaryon, and empowering us.

-Daemon Targaryen
With us at the table we can prevent possibility of Daemon having power base by becoming Lord of Stepstones. As Lord of Stepstone he can amass power independently of the Crown and directly threaten Qoren in Dorne in case hostility broke out. We must weaken Daemon as much as possible as his path almost inevitably cross us. As he is currently not on the table we may easily push him aside and have ally in Otto and Qoren in this.

-House Velaryon.
House Velaryon either lack voice or have only Rhaenys on the table, in contrast with Qoren, Viserys, and the whole council. Either way we can endear Velaryon by benefiting them here or incentivizing them to be close to us at the table. Proving our shrewdness to Rhaenys or opening a chance of possible alliance.

-Power and influence.
Having a seat at Stepstone give us direct influence over dividing power and wealth from the Stepstones. People that wanted their agenda in the Stepstones to go through will approach us offering deal and favor increasing our power and influence. We can also benefit our ally like Isembard's trade fleet. This also show our capability to Otto and Rhaenys.

With this I hope people vote for Plan that include Stepstone those are Don't ask for anything "Major" and Foundation of a Reign

Approval Voting
[X] Plan: Don't ask for anything "Major".
 
[X] Plan: Don't ask for anything "Major".

It'd be nice to have Qoren on the progress. He's pretty diplo specced and having him get a chance to meet with the southern lords that will be most against the marriage might give him a chance to charm some of them into a more agreeable stance.
 
I would like to point out that Rhaenyra having control of where her children being raised doesn't at all preclude them from being raised in Dorne? It just means she will have the final say on the matter which can very much include them going to Dorne.
 
Let's not forget this isn't the outcome of the negotiations. It isn't even our position going into the negotiations. This is purely Rhaenyra's preferences for what House Targaryen's positions should be going into the negotiations.

That is to say, if Qoren has a major problem with the major demand about parenting, he can voice them in the negotiations and then we'll see.
 
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