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Skippy said:
So, it's time to decide what to vote for, and I think the lens I'm going to use to look at things here is frontal firepower, as focusing as much firepower as possible is essential for breaking through Romulan shields. It's worth noting here that according to the description, the Front Deflector configuration has only one cannon which can fire frontally, and cannot mount more, as far as I'm aware.
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I'm genuinely kind of confused where you're getting that from.

It says we would only be able to fit a single one in the nose sure, but I see no reason why cannons on the sides couldn't fire forwards, the same with the top and bottom.

Side cannons being able to fire forwards is one of the biggest advantages a hull shaped like this would have.
 
[X] Forward Deflector (Industry 2 -> 24) [2 Torpedo Tubes] [1 Cannon + 3 Optional]

I think two forward photonic torpedoes is sufficient here, as the three-tube expanded vessel doesn't have extra defenses to keep it alive in face of Romulan disruptors. Strength in numbers!
 
NavySeel said:
I'm genuinely kind of confused where you're getting that from.

It says we would only be able to fit a single one in the nose sure, but I see no reason why cannons on the sides couldn't fire forwards, the same with the top and bottom.

Side cannons being able to fire forwards is one of the biggest advantages a hull shaped like this would have.
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The bit of the update where it said we'd only be able to fit one in the nose, although looking at it, that may well have been my misreading. In any case, it does not seem to hamper the design's Alpha Strike damage value nearly as much as I'd have thought. I've edited my post to mention this.

I'd suggest reading the rest of my post, which has quite a lot of information about both designs' stats which you might find interesting.
 
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Skippy said:
All torpedo tubes fire frontally, according to Sayle when I asked him.

Optional cannons may be able to fire either aft or forward.
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Oh, right, nevermind then. Missed that. Still not worth the extra costs involved for three torpedoes forward. If we were producing a medium cruiser hitting close to 40 Industry might be more reasonable, but we aren't.
 
Reposting this since it was very close to the end of the last page and may have been missed:


Firepower Comparison​

Stingray (Refit)​
Selachii (Front Deflector)​
Selachii (Aft Deflector)​
2 Atomic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
3 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Phased Cannons​
1 Pulsed Phase Cannon (Nose), 2 PPC​
3 Pulse Phased Cannon (Front Arc)​
Average Damage: 2.25
Max Sustained Damage: 6
Alpha Strike: 12​
Average Damage: 4.375
Max Sustained Damage: 12.5
Alpha Strike: 22.5​
Average Damage: 5.3125
Max Sustained Damage: 15
Alpha Strike: 30​
25 Industry​
28 Industry​
37 Industry​
Source on figures: I tried to work it out myself, by looking at the stats for our various designs, failed, and then bugged @Sayle until he made a formula for me to do it. :V


What I find most interesting here is what an absolute beast this ship will be. Apparently manoeuvrability really helps keep guns on-target.
 
Yeah, even that middle-ranged one is an absolute behemoth, and not much more expensive than a Stingray.

It actually has even greater alpha strike potential than the NX-class, though that's as much a matter of the torpedoes being a generation ahead than anything else. It should be absolutely fantastic in combination with the Thunderchild class
 
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Skippy said:
Reposting this since it was very close to the end of the last page and may have been missed:


Firepower Comparison​

Stingray (Refit)​
Selachii (Front Deflector)​
Selachii (Aft Deflector)​
2 Atomic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
3 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Phased Cannons​
1 Pulsed Phase Cannon (Nose), 2 PPC​
3 Pulse Phased Cannon (Front Arc)​
Average Damage: 2.25
Max Sustained Damage: 6
Alpha Strike: 12​
Average Damage: 4.375
Max Sustained Damage: 12.5
Alpha Strike: 22.5​
Average Damage: 5.3125
Max Sustained Damage: 15
Alpha Strike: 30​
25 Industry​
28 Industry​
37 Industry​
Source on figures: I tried to work it out myself, by looking at the stats for our various designs, failed, and then bugged @Sayle until he made a formula for me to do it. :V


What I find most interesting here is what an absolute beast this ship will be. Apparently manoeuvrability really helps keep guns on-target.
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I'd kind of prefer to go for the third phase cannon on the front deflector version. I don't think it'd make a massive difference but the dumb part of my brain is pushing for the round 30 industry.

Also the Battletech part of my brain refuses to read PPC as anything other than Particle Projector Cannon. :V
 
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NavySeel said:
I'd kind of prefer to go for the third phase cannon on the front deflector version. I don't think it'd make a massive difference but the dumb part of my brain is pushing for the round 30 industry.

Also the Battletech part of my brain refuses to read PPC as anything other than Particle Projector Cannon. :V
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Hehe, the abbreviation was mostly because I didn't want the middle row to be giant. 😅

The Front Deflector version is statted with three phase cannons total - the one it comes with as standard, plus two optional ones. But we could absolutely go for all three optional cannons; it would be interesting to see what this does to the firepower values.

*shines the @Sayle signal*
 
Skippy said:
Reposting this since it was very close to the end of the last page and may have been missed:


Firepower Comparison​

Stingray (Refit)​
Selachii (Front Deflector)​
Selachii (Aft Deflector)​
2 Atomic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
3 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Phased Cannons​
1 Pulsed Phase Cannon (Nose), 2 PPC​
3 Pulse Phased Cannon (Front Arc)​
Average Damage: 2.25
Max Sustained Damage: 6
Alpha Strike: 12​
Average Damage: 4.375
Max Sustained Damage: 12.5
Alpha Strike: 22.5​
Average Damage: 5.3125
Max Sustained Damage: 15
Alpha Strike: 30​
25 Industry​
28 Industry​
37 Industry​
Source on figures: I tried to work it out myself, by looking at the stats for our various designs, failed, and then bugged @Sayle until he made a formula for me to do it. :V


What I find most interesting here is what an absolute beast this ship will be. Apparently manoeuvrability really helps keep guns on-target.
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I can get keeping the total number of phase cannons the same for comparison purposes, since a lot of people seemed most interested in the torpedo tubes, but for curiosity's sake how do the numbers change if both deflector versions paid for the max number of phase canons too?
 
NavySeel said:
Also the Battletech part of my brain refuses to read PPC as anything other than Particle Projector Cannon. :V
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We are the same.

Skippy said:
The Front Deflector version is statted with three phase cannons total - the one it comes with as standard, plus two optional ones. But we could absolutely go for all three optional cannons; it would be interesting to see what this does to the firepower values.

*shines the @Sayle signal*
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Adds some aft-facing firepower, gives it a bit more multiple-target versatility.
 
[X] Forward Deflector (Industry 2 -> 24) [2 Torpedo Tubes] [1 Cannon + 3 Optional]

Again, I'll be wanting to add PP Cannons later when we get the option, but for now I'm voting for lower cost.
 
Skippy said:
Reposting this since it was very close to the end of the last page and may have been missed:


Firepower Comparison​

Stingray (Refit)​
Selachii (Front Deflector)​
Selachii (Aft Deflector)​
2 Atomic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
3 Photonic Torpedo Tubes​
2 Phased Cannons​
1 Pulsed Phase Cannon (Nose), 2 PPC​
3 Pulse Phased Cannon (Front Arc)​
Average Damage: 2.25
Max Sustained Damage: 6
Alpha Strike: 12​
Average Damage: 4.375
Max Sustained Damage: 12.5
Alpha Strike: 22.5​
Average Damage: 5.3125
Max Sustained Damage: 15
Alpha Strike: 30​
25 Industry​
28 Industry​
37 Industry​
Source on figures: I tried to work it out myself, by looking at the stats for our various designs, failed, and then bugged @Sayle until he made a formula for me to do it. :V


What I find most interesting here is what an absolute beast this ship will be. Apparently manoeuvrability really helps keep guns on-target.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Phasers being hitscan and Photon torpedos being able to track surely has nothing to do with it either. Surely
 
NavySeel said:
I'm genuinely kind of confused where you're getting that from.

It says we would only be able to fit a single one in the nose sure, but I see no reason why cannons on the sides couldn't fire forwards, the same with the top and bottom.

Side cannons being able to fire forwards is one of the biggest advantages a hull shaped like this would have.
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Yeah side cannons on past designs have always had quite a bit of angle to them.
 
7th Hex said:
I can get keeping the total number of phase cannons the same for comparison purposes, since a lot of people seemed most interested in the torpedo tubes, but for curiosity's sake how do the numbers change if both deflector versions paid for the max number of phase canons too?
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I would suggest asking @Sayle and seeing if he'll break it down for you. With his marvellous new spreadsheet formula, all things are possible!

Nyvis said:
Yeah side cannons on past designs have always had quite a bit of angle to them.
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Honestly I think this was just me misreading. I was actually somewhat confused why it would only be able to have one front-facing weapon given the whole point of the arrowhead was that every gun could fire in the frontal arc, lmao. A better interpretation of the description is that it's about number of guns, and not the overall facing.
 
Forward Deflector, +22 Industry: 2 tubes+1 cannon = 6+2=8 Industry = 14 spent on deflector+engines+nacelles
Aft Deflector, +30 Industry: 2 Tubes+2 cannons = 6+4=10 Industry = 20 spent on deflector+engines+nacelles

I'm not willing to spend 6 extra Industry to get the opportunity to mount a few extra weapons. Given the votes thus far, this ship is meant to be a direct replacement for the Stingray, and the Forward Deflector helps us keep it cheap enough to do that. Many will be destroyed in combat, no matter how many weapons we put on them, losing a bit of total weapons in exchange for more ships is a worthwhile trade here. Our baskets are pretty weak either way, better to put less eggs in more baskets than the reverse.

[X] Forward Deflector (Industry 2 -> 24) [2 Torpedo Tubes] [1 Cannon + 3 Optional]
 
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