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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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tri2 said:
but if the person holding the banner is launched away, everyone else will die
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So.

Being launched is *fluff*. It is and always has been fluff describing a loss in the combat rolls. All those times Snorri got pingponged are not actually all that relevant.

What you're describing mechanically would be stripping the ability of the banner from the Hearthguard. Like breaking, or theft. This doesn't normally happen as a result of losses in combat rolls.

My point being this is not something we really have to worry about.
 
The assertion that being launched is fluff seems like a very strong one.

It seems a very obvious narrative tactic for large or strong enemies to throw or kick a banner bearer out of range of the unit the banner is protecting.

On realistic grounds, why wouldn't this be a go to tactic for people capable of it?

As I understand it, the rolls serve the narrative to introduce an element of unpredictability, not as a prison to force what enemies can do to fit into game mechanics even when that doesn't make sense.
 
Alratan said:
The assertion that being launched is fluff seems like a very strong one.

It seems a very obvious narrative tactic for large or strong enemies to throw or kick a banner bearer out of range of the unit the banner is protecting.

On realistic grounds, why wouldn't this be a go to tactic for people capable of it?

As I understand it, the rolls serve the narrative to introduce an element of unpredictability, not as a prison to force what enemies can do to fit into game mechanics even when that doesn't make sense.
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Well Soul is the one writing, barring multiple low rolls I can't see him going "the person that had the banner is gone on round 1 meaning I'm killing all of your Hearth Guard now"
 
Alratan said:
The assertion that being launched is fluff seems like a very strong one.

It seems a very obvious narrative tactic for large or strong enemies to throw or kick a banner bearer out of range of the unit the banner is protecting.

On realistic grounds, why wouldn't this be a go to tactic for people capable of it?

As I understand it, the rolls serve the narrative to introduce an element of unpredictability, not as a prison to force what enemies can do to fit into game mechanics even when that doesn't make sense.
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It is a very strong assertion because it is obvious if one looks at the combat system spoilers which have been present in every update where a fight against a significant enemy has occurred. The first thing to know is that Soul has consistently rolled combat encounters in a big batch in the discord, and he pastes them at the bottom of updates where a big fight happens. He did it with the Nurgle Meargh, the Tzeentch one, the Frundar avatar etc. All the way back to at least Kholek (tho this might be in a different server at this point or using a different program, I don't recall).

Soul does things by rolling up the rounds until the enemy dies and then generates a narrative that fits those rolls. He's not doing something like "Snorri will or will not be tossed based on this roll." and writing the update step by step while rolling for significant decision points.

If an enemy can break items, then the banner may be at risk - it is however dwarf make, and the runic parts are adamant, so I am unconcerned. If an enemy can steal items, then that is a concern - but the Mountainsoul banner is meant to be the personal banner of the Champion Ylva, a large ask to steal from when she's planted among the Hearthguard and sat directly in Snorri's huge anti-magic aura.

If an enemy can toss her away entirely out of the storm, that's a special rule or effect we haven't encountered yet, and is a situation where logically everyone works together to prevent that from happening by keeping the Tosser occupied. Or Snorri realizes she's getting flung away, and turns the intensity of Skarren down to the point it won't kill people - a setback but acceptable in my eyes. E3: also comes to mind that Azrilzhufgotten will resist people getting pulled out of formation as one of its functions, if I remember how the Rune of Amber works correctly.

That's the crux at the end of it - it takes time to toss someone that far and is very obvious. And outside of the storm the Mountainsoul banner is extremely useful for the other kinds of missions the Hearth Guard might do.

E: Put another way, the point I'm making in summary is that the getting tossed that's become a thread meme is not a concern, and we haven't yet encountered an enemy that has tossing abilities of mechanical "disable one of our items" relevance. We could, but we'll probably need to fight An Actual Giant for that.

E2: Also if we're concerned about enemies tossing people with banners around we should be concerned about something tossing Snorri into the dwarven army.
 
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Darkwood's Backburner Workshop
Proposal: Metal-inspecting Eye
Component Runes: [M.Thungni's Presence], [Prospecting], [Windsight]
Reasoning: (To my understanding) [M.Thungni's Presence] draws in the winds to empower Runes. If this is the case then it may sharpen the effects of [Windsight], and if [Prospecting] also works on Forged Metals and not just Raw Ore, the combination of the three may allow the user to see precisely how Runes interact with the material they are inscribed on. If fault points can be found, it may become possible to avoid them.

Note: This entire proposal falls apart if [Windsight] doesn't see physical matter on its own. If [Windsight] and [Forged Eye] need to be combined to provide combined Wind and Physical Vision, none of this works. This proposal also fails if [M.Thungni's Presence] doesn't work how I think it does. If it doesn't and an alternative Rune that does what I think [M.Thungni's Presence] does is available/can be found, please bring it forth. I am open to correction/alternatives.
 
Darkwood2027 said:
Darkwood's Backburner Workshop
Proposal: Metal-inspecting Eye
Component Runes: [M.Thungni's Presence], [Prospecting], [Windsight]
Reasoning: (To my understanding) [M.Thungni's Presence] draws in the winds to empower Runes. If this is the case then it may sharpen the effects of [Windsight], and if [Prospecting] also works on Forged Metals and not just Raw Ore, the combination of the three may allow the user to see precisely how Runes interact with the material they are inscribed on. If fault points can be found, it may become possible to avoid them.

Note: This entire proposal falls apart if [Windsight] doesn't see physical matter on its own. If [Windsight] and [Forged Eye] need to be combined to provide combined Wind and Physical Vision, none of this works. This proposal also fails if [M.Thungni's Presence] doesn't work how I think it does. If it doesn't and an alternative Rune that does what I think [M.Thungni's Presence] does is available/can be found, please bring it forth. I am open to correction/alternatives.
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Thungni's Presence dispels spells cast at the user and then uses the broken Wind residuals left over to empower runes. What you're looking for is probably closer to Thungni's Master Rune of Grounding on KKR since that does actually actively absorb the ambient natural Winds.

A better alternative might be something like Master Rune of Grounding + Rune of Thungni (highlight esoteric flaws) + Windsight.
 
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BungieONI said:
Thungni's Presence dispels spells cast at the user and then uses the broken Wind residuals left over to empower runes. What you're looking for is probably closer to Thungni's Master Rune of Grounding on KKR since that does actually actively absorb the ambient natural Winds.

A better alternative might be something like Master Rune of Grounding + Rune of Thungni (highlight esoteric flaws) + Windsight.
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Funnily enough, this might be one of those times where Ancestor Thungni may not actually be the best choice. I have doubts about Ancestor Thungni interacting with the rune of Windsight simply because it's not something Thungni ever managed. Snorri's theoretical Ancestor rune is the one you'd want to pair with windsight when you need a connection with the runes over Thungni in the far future imo.

Edit: MThungni's Eye + windsight + fracturesight is what I'd do. Thungni's eye tells you flaws in construction plus the runes, fracturesight does the same for craftsmanship, together with windsight will likely do something very interesting.
 
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LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Funnily enough, this might be one of those times where Ancestor Thungni may not actually be the best choice. I have doubts about Ancestor Thungni interacting with the rune of Windsight simply because it's not something Thungni ever managed. Snorri's theoretical Ancestor rune is the one you'd want to pair with windsight when you need a connection with the runes over Thungni in the far future imo.

Edit: MThungni's Eye + windsight + fracturesight is what I'd do. Thungni's eye tells you flaws in construction plus the runes, fracturesight does the same for craftsmanship, together with windsight will likely do something very interesting.
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Could also do Grounding + Smednir + Windsight, because Smednir is the flaw identifier in Fracturesight, near as I can tell.
 
#Rune-Ideas as a little break from writing the doot.

Carcer said:
Rune of Spill Control
Prevents liquid and semifluid spills from spreading beyond a certain radius, containing them for easy cleanup and security,used in kitchens, storage rooms,public areas where liquid spills are common and in place where dangerous liquid/semifluid are used such as a forges and foundries to prevent spills of molten metal from becoming truly catastrophic. Trigger/Civilian/Phisycal/AOE
Rune of Stable Ground
Effect: Reinforces the structural integrity of floors and ground surfaces, reducing the risk of collapses, erosion, or shifts,essential for tunnel networks, construction areas,defensive area, and any buildings with heavy foot traffic or machinery. Constant/Civilian/Defensive/Phisycal/AOE
Rune of Fire Safety
Effect: Dampens open flames or prevents them from spreading beyond a controlled range, reducing fire hazards or fire based enemy attack/sabotage. Constant/Civilian/Defensive/Phisycal/AOE
Rune of Resonant Sound
Effect: Amplifies the sound of materials being struck, making it easier to detect flaws or weak points. On hit/Civilian/Phisycal
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These are very nice Runes, they definitely feel like the exact kind of Rune you see during the Golden Age and very much civilian Runes. The problem is they all have similar enough counterparts that Im leery of adding them.


Voikirium said:
Rune of Acceptance: Aqshy fire magic is broken more easily, the spells dismantled and broken, while the mortal servants of Chaos who wield it are especially spited by having the fiery hate and rage they feel slowly smothered, weakening their resolve and their ability to cast spells. Created by Hugrim Peacemaker as a tool in his war against Khorne, in this case Khorne of The Shattered Mirror, a proposed face of the Blood God that represents self-loathing and affirms magic, in particular Aqshy.

"I am not crazy, Lorna! You see any of those other freaks tossing around fire like that, no, and then there's these dipshits that have it? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it!"

#Constant, #Curse, #Flexible, #Magical, #Grudge, #Odd???

Master Rune of Stabilization (Weapon): Similar to the Talismanic form in that it opposes magic. Instead of passive protection, magical protection of the enemy is turned into an aura that destroys the enemy's magical protection, and further making blows themselves likelier to wound.

A Rune that gained considerable popularity during the Gor Wars, as Snorri Whitebeard strove to burn out the Black Mountains, at the time infested with Beastmen who considered themselves crafters in their own right.

#Trigger, #Enchantment, Offensive, #Magical, #Solo,

Master Rune of Skalla Honest Heart (Talismanic): Tzeentchian entities, whether Tzangor or Changer of Ways or a horrific Vortex Beast bound to him, are attacked with runic energy. A fully mortal follower would be less effected than the blessed would be less effected than a true daemon.

#Trigger, #Enchantment, #Flexible, #Physical, #Solo, #Magic, #Grudge

"I did tell you I would strangle you with my bare hands one day, didn't I, Paneth?"

#Rune-Ideas
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Acceptance: Neat. Added.

Stabilization: Anti magic attack is vibe. Added.

Skalla (Talismanic): Added.

yannoshka said:
#Rune-Idea
Rune of enduring tracks
Talisman
Even the best Rangers can sometime get lost. They might grumble audibly at their younger counterparts that they know exactly where they are, and that it is everything else that is in the wrong spot, but that does not reduce the actual problems when that happens.
This rune is an answer to that, created by the mysterious and baffling ancient runesmith known only as Yorri, this rune allows one to instinctively know exactly where they have throdded and how long ago.
This rune has been originally intended to be inscribed upon armor, and while having been successfully developed, it has been deemed a failure due to the simple fact that trying to incorporate a way to turn the effect on and off significantly weakens the rune to the point of near-uselessness, and having a piece of armor that drives a Dawi barmy with input overload when worn in areas one moves along often is decidedly less than helpfull for anyone.
Much more practical to adapt it for a talismanic use.
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Enduring Tracks: neat. Added. Snorri would know this maybe?


watcheye456 said:
Oy @soulcake ! Quick question:
How does civil leadership in Khazid Okraz looks like? figured it unwillingly differs from 'regular' dwarfen Khazid but how so?
Does it have a thane? Do Hearthguard elect a regent, is there a council of Elders? How involved King Gloin gets?
Just something that was not addressed...
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Its close enough to Kraka Drakk that they are just sort of treated like a suburb. Snorri has defacto final say given its proximity to Khazagar of course, but they'll generally just use the civil leadership within the Hold. Just a bit farther away.
 
Would the rune of windsight qualify enough to become Snorri's Master Rune? Cause it's such a groundbreaking achievement I could see him finally naming one after himself
 
MasterDrakus said:
Would the rune of windsight qualify enough to become Snorri's Master Rune? Cause it's such a groundbreaking achievement I could see him finally naming one after himself
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Snorri already has a Master Rune, actually. The Master Rune Of Purification is also the Master Rune Of Snorri Klausson ( kind of, not neccesarily in the way you meant if you thinking of being along the lines of an Ancestor's master rune ).
 
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#Rune-Ideas More rune for the pile.
Master Rune of Saga Seeker (weapon)
when in combat the wielder can speak lines out of song/saga and they will be empowered in ways relevant to the line. Needs to be in Khazalid. Examples if the dwarf says something like "the warrior's next blow sent the beast reeling" then the dwarf would be empowered when attempting the move in combat. Experts using this rune seem to dectate the entire fight as if it was a story already written.
#Trigger #Buff #Flexible #Multi #Odd #Fate?

Master Rune of The Skalds March (Banner)
Dwarfs under the effect of this banner have are tireless and are energised. if the dwarfs under the effect of the banner are singing it increases the range of the effect and this can be further increased if the expand range reaches more singing dwarfs.
#Constant #Trigger #Augment #Flexible #Physical #AOE #IFF #Loney

Rune of the endless voice (all)
People under the effect of this rune can not injure their throat not matter how much they use their voice, whether it be screaming or talking non-stop.
#Constant #Augment


If possible I would like it that all these runes were either invented or at least know by Dwalin
 
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I do think there's a good argument that in a post Ancestor Snorri future time period, the Master Rune of Purification will be Snorri's Ancestor Master Rune. It's the master rune that started his path, it's the first alchemy rune and it's been stated that we still haven't learned all of the capabilities of the rune. If Snorri becomes the Ancestor of Alchemy, it fits perfectly. It also has the side benefits of being both defensive antimagic and offensive anti magic so it has a lot of utility like the some of the other Ancestor's Master Runes.

The arguments against it are that it requires a very very rare reagent and is significantly more complicated than the other Ancestor MRunes.
 
@soulcake Once more, with feeling.

Master Rune of Anders Iron-Shaper: This rune allows one to turn the entirety of their workshop into what is, for all intents and purposes, a massive furnace, making the shaping of metals within the area much easier because one does not need to constantly reheat the metal in order to continue to shape it. The rune also allows control of the intensity of the heat when activated, ensuring that the heat can be raised or lowered for different metals.

#Structural #Activation #Constant #AOE #Odd #Magical

An odd rune, originally made by the only runelord of Clan Andersson. This rune draws in ambient magic and converts it into heat, allowing one to maintain a constant level of heat in a large area. While Anders Iron-Shaper did not produce all of the weapons wielded by his clan, he produced a great majority of the more storied ones, and would often spend years locked away in his workshop working on whatever project had taken his mind.

#Rune-ideas

So, this is essentially a rune that draws in magical energy similarly to the Rune of Purification, but it is entirely focused on producing a consistent level of heat over a large area to make the process of forging easier rather than being inscribed on a smelter and focused on removing impurities. If it's too similar to the Rune of Purification, that's understandable, but I think it's different enough to essentially be like a divergent path on the same research tree. As for Iron-Shaper, he's focused entirely on making the absolute best version of whatever thing he is making, and as such never bothered to make a normal variant of this rune.
 
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MasterDrakus said:
Would the rune of windsight qualify enough to become Snorri's Master Rune? Cause it's such a groundbreaking achievement I could see him finally naming one after himself
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We could give it a name like Klausson's Master Rune of Windsight, which would actually serve a very useful purpose.
Given the rune shows magic as Snorri understands it, specifying that the observations were made using his rune is actually very useful information.
Someone using another variant would see something different, so the particular variant being used would help keep things consistent.

Snorri's name will be bound to the solution of the consternation like Durin's is. Durin's consternation, the gift giver's greatest gift (gggg, for short)
 
Darkwood2027 said:
Note: This entire proposal falls apart if [Windsight] doesn't see physical matter on its own. If [Windsight] and [Forged Eye] need to be combined to provide combined Wind and Physical Vision, none of this works. This proposal also fails if [M.Thungni's Presence] doesn't work how I think it does. If it doesn't and an alternative Rune that does what I think [M.Thungni's Presence] does is available/can be found, please bring it forth. I am open to correction/alternatives.
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I think Windsight requires Forged Eye.

Master Rune of Fracturesight may incorporate Forged Eye though, so something like that plus Windsight plus a variant of Piercing Sight that works on more than just flesh may work.
 
ThatOneGuy050 said:
So, this is essentially a rune that draws in magical energy similarly to the Rune of Purification, but it is entirely focused on producing a consistent level of heat over a large area to make the process of forging easier rather than being inscribed on a smelter and focused on removing impurities. If it's too similar to the Rune of Purification, that's understandable, but I think it's different enough to essentially be like a divergent path on the same research tree. As for Iron-Shaper, he's focused entirely on making the absolute best version of whatever thing he is making, and as such never bothered to make a normal variant of this rune.
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This sounds more like an AC rune, specifically one for magical heating to make a otherwise cold section of a hold livable
 
DragonParadox said:
This sounds more like an AC rune, specifically one for magical heating to make a otherwise cold section of a hold livable
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My idea for the rune was that even the lowest level of heat would be basically unbearable. It doesn't render an area liveably warm, it's like Snorri's workshop when he first made gromril chain. It is literally making some place a giant furnace because the dwarf who made it was, to put it mildly, a bit of an eccentric.
 
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