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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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There is the chance they throw in the towel and just accept Drakk's ascendence as the regional center. Fjolla isn't that radical and the T5 might be enough to bulldoze the politics out of the way. Dolgi may not have the achievements for it but I think he's got the skill for it at this point. He'll get in eventually if for no other reason than half the house are his descendants.
 
Don't KD already have more than the expected amount of Runelords? Weould they have to move to a different, less beruned hold to be promoted?
They don't have to move, but it might make their nominations more contentious.
There is the chance they throw in the towel and just accept Drakk's ascendence as the regional center.
I don't think 'throwing in the towel' is the kind of thing that Runelords do.
 
[Canon] Something Less Depressing, occured 586 A.P. New
Something Less Depressing

Gandazi brought the hammer down on the steel again, and again, and again. Her hammer beat a constant staccato tune as she struck the metal, shaping it, working it, moving it. It would be nothing too important: Master Snerra had her shaping bolt-heads of the more mundane sort, bodkins, broadheads, that sort of thing. At best her work will be stored and used in a time of war. At worst it will be melted back down. All depends on how good she is; all depends on how capable she--

"It's kind of a waste of time, isn't it?"

She looked up from the forge, ready to swing, only to see Andvari standing there, gormlessly, clad in his own leather training suit. She quirked an eyebrow and then got back to beating the little bits of metal. Anyone else, she'd have swung. But that was her fellow apprentice. More importantly, "ale me up, thoughtless tongue?"

He'd picked up the not-bad habit of offering his fellow apprentice ale in return for her ignoring his slips of the tongue. And he was handsome. A little. Somewhat. Bah.

(Most men were more handsome when offering ale, a tragic condition, but he retained some of his even between ale offerings, a sure sign something was deeply wrong with her)

He blinked, grabbed a wooden tankard and filled it with the good stuff, setting it on the table. She pounded the metal twice, and saw it was done, and dipped it in the oil to cool; and even as she did that, she grabbed the tankard and began to drink. She gave the twirl of a wrist as a sign to continue, seeing him all but fidgeting, at least by his standards.

"We're both aiming to work with Gromril and Wutroth, right?" He picked up one of the cool bolt heads and examined it, seeing a mirror polish that was so fine moonlight could bounce off of it in Master Snerra's workshop. "So why spend so much effort trying to master common steel, when by rights we should both hope to have ingots of Gromril to work with?"

"I'm sorry to let you know this, rich boy, but we didn't all come from the better part of the hold: why, some of us even had to get used to defenses of stone and wood." She chuckled, a little amused, at his own twitching. Much better than how they had started off, before she had realized three-fourths of the seemingly asinine idiocy he'd said had been a reasonable enough thought jumbled all out of order by nerves, poor bastard, and the other fourth had been purely the shock of acclimitizing after leaving home behind. "For that matter, some of us didn't get our start mining proper but had to go looking for bog iron."

Terrible. Not the iron itself, really, not after a little effort to purify it: but long, hot, muggy days in swampy Norscan territory, or else and even better, long, cold, soupy nights, working through trying to find deposits of the stuff for the clan. A way to make a living for a clan far from an upswing, aye, but a bitter, frigid bunch of hours for such a thing, whose main virtue over any other kind of iron was a cheap resistance to rusting: No Rune work, but something, at least.

Bog iron and a scarce handful of Runesmiths. What a thing to be one of the rare ones of the clan to be found with The Gift. A path to prosperity and wealth: but no way, no how, was she going to abandon those who'd brought her up. So she'd learn to forge with steel, better than any of her competitors could with Gromril and Dragon Bone, without driving them to bankruptcy.

So she'd keep practicing, not just until she could always get it right, but until she could never get it wrong.

"I'm not a rich boy, Gandazi." He didn't make the usual comparison to Tholinn, probable as not because it was a bad time to make such a statement.

Her hands tightened some, though they then loosened as she allowed that she might have the skewed standard instead of him. "Mr. Priests-of-Smednir-Make-Up-My-Entire-Family is just feeling smug he's good at something, hm?" And it was true, her fellow apprentice was a better metalsmith than her and just about every other dwarf of about their age by rights, though one got the distinct feeling Snerra had his anvil positioned in such a way to see her metal work and remind him he still had a way to go himself.

Or perhaps it was to situate herself between the clients and the apprentice before he could run his mouth and start an incident, who could say really?

Andvari was puffing himself up some at her words, good-naturedly enough: it was his most tolerable trait, really, that he was never an ass about these things. Let him talk, don't overreact to some nonsense that came out of his mouth without thinking too much, and you'd find he was near as sunny as Snerra herself underneath all the inability to converse. Probably a part of what had convinced her to take him as an apprentice.

An intriguing difference from the other Dawi their age as well, though she'd not be thinking about that for some time.

"Aye, and they taught me well. Andvari Ulthersson will not shame his kin today, thank you much!"

"A good attitude, Beardling and Plaitling!" How had Master managed to sneak up on them? Her ears worked well enough, she swore, and Andvari could do a half-tolerable impression of an Elder with his ability to listen without trying too hard: and yet Snerra had appeared from nowhere and immediately begun filling the already wild space of her workshop with her presence. "But a true Runesmith needs the grit and werewithal to do the things they don't want to do sometimes! That's why, Andvari, you will be meeting Loken's apprentice for my next shipment of Moraidyr Shells, and you, Gandazi, will be meeting with the Prince's huskarls for their new banner!"

They both paled even as Snerra's smile only brightened. "I know the two of you can do it!"
 
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So, just a curiosity, but have there been a discussion on how long Snorri will live?

Welcome and glad to see you enjoyed the quest. For your question, I'm sure qm mentioned Snorri wouldn't die of old age and keep going on stubbornly but obviously it doesn't mean he is immortal. He may still die in combat or something if odds are too much against him or we make some bad choices.
 
Welcome and glad to see you enjoyed the quest. For your question, I'm sure qm mentioned Snorri wouldn't die of old age and keep going on stubbornly but obviously it doesn't mean he is immortal. He may still die in combat or something if odds are too much against him or we make some bad choices.

I see. In other words, it's pretty damn impressive you guys managed to reach this far.

So, I take it that in theory, that means it's possible for Snorri to live up until the "modern era" Warhammer a.k.a. Karl Franz era.
 
To be fair, the Chaos Dwarfs being less of a thing is mostly up to a miracle roll rather than our actions. Never forget the 100 V 1.

Something we might be able to do and claim more direct credit for, is influence Malekith to not be a total shithead. He becomes friends with the high king, so making him a gift wouldn't be unreasonable. We could make something for him that helps provide clarity of mind or something, so he doesn't put on the circlet of iron when he finds it for example. Make a world where he takes the deathbed oath with whitebeard seriously.
 
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To be fair, the Chaos Dwarfs being less of a thing is mostly up to a miracle roll rather than our actions. Never forget the 100 V 1.

Something we might be able to do and claim more direct credit for, is influence Malekith to not be a total shithead. He becomes friends with the high king, so making him a gift wouldn't be unreasonable. We could make something for him that helps provide clarity of mind or something, so he doesn't put on the circlet of iron when he finds it for example.
Assuming, of course, that the Circlet of Iron is responsible for everything wrong with him as a person.
 
Assuming, of course, that the Circlet of Iron is responsible for everything wrong with him as a person.
I mean it probably isn't, but preventing him from putting it on would still be a step in the right direction. We could try gifting him something with a Dawi combo (or if we compress it, master rune of Dawi and other stuff) to try to make him more dwarf like I suppose (comedy option, we find some sort of combo that turns any non Dawi that puts the time on into a Dawi. Turning Malekith into a dwarf will surely fix everything). Point is, it's a thing within our power to help with.

And also that we can create an equally powerful counter artifact.
We have the hammer of Thungi. We can make pretty awesome stuff.

Wait. I've got it. Something derived from the Brotherhood rune stuff. Malekith becomes friends with Whitebeard, so he could count as a valid target for the rune, we make something that gives him a portion of Whitebeards skill and in a (near?) literal sense makes it so the spirit of Whitebeard is always with him to provide guidance.
 
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Wait. I've got it. Something derived from the Brotherhood rune stuff. Malekith becomes friends with Whitebeard, so he could count as a valid target for the rune, we make something that gives him a portion of Whitebeards skill and in a (near?) literal sense makes it so the spirit of Whitebeard is always with him to provide guidance.
Master Rune of BrotherhoodTalismanicMaster RuneWearer temporarily assimilates the skills of allies in range, will improve the rate that the wearer permanently learns the greatest non magic skill known by one chosen ally.
Rune of BrotherhoodAllRuneLets a dwarf temporarily assimilate skills used by allies in range.
The temporarily is a bit of a shot in the foot there.
It means it would only channel Whitebeard while he's around.
Now its speculated that these are precursors to
Master Rune of KingshipTalismanicMaster RuneImbues the wearer with the wisdom of previous wearers
Which might do what you need, but it doesn't exist yet and Snorri would need to wear it for long enough that he strongly imprints into it.

Theres also the other point that handing the ruler of another empire an artifact that will make them think like us seems like an attempt to subvert them to our goals which would likely not go down well with the elves if they identified the effect.
 
I did say something derived from the brotherhood stuff, would probably end up being something with its own name. But that does depend on us actually researching that stuff yeah.

As for your other point, true, political shitstorm if we don't do it right (I'm sure there's a way to sell "it allows him to know what the advice his dearest friend would give him is"), but I suspect it would work for the overall goal of "make Malekith not a shithead" which is what I was going for, politics be dammed.
 
I did say something derived from the brotherhood stuff, would probably end up being something with its own name. But that does depend on us actually researching that stuff yeah.

As for your other point, true, political shitstorm if we don't do it right (I'm sure there's a way to sell "it allows him to know what the advice his dearest friend would give him is"), but I suspect it would work for the overall goal of "make Malekith not a shithead" which is what I was going for, politics be dammed.
Instead of War of the Beard it's the War of the Ring, when the Elves led by Malekith lead an invasion of the Karaz Ankor after an emissary of the High King was found to be trying to usurp his mind and when pressed for an explanation by Elven diplomats the High King glued beards to them

Trust :V
 
Instead of War of the Beard it's the War of the Ring, when the Elves led by Malekith lead an invasion of the Karaz Ankor after an emissary of the High King was found to be trying to usurp his mind and when pressed for an explanation by Elven diplomats the High King glued beards to them

Trust :V
Sounds like comedy omake material. Write it so we can get roll bonuses to elven diplomacy!

That aside, I do think I'm onto something with the general idea of "Something that reminds Malekith of Snorri Whitebeard". (Though we can always go back to general "provides clarity of mind/protection from mental influences" I guess.)

If we wanted to go full heresy, it would be made after Whitebeard dies, and use his brain as a reagent, just to make sure it imparts his wisdom. Cue Whitebeard being able to sort of posses Malekith, but not doing that because friends, and then having stern words with us.
 
You all are thinking like dwarfs, and usually that's a good thing, but as much as it pains me to say it, in this instance I think it's clouded your judgement.

Malekith's an elf. Elves love having multiple interpretations and hidden meanings for seemingly innocuous or unrelated things. Give him a ring or a pendant, lacking in ornamentation or ostentation, but obviously supremely well made, and make it detect outside influences upon his mind. Now you might be wondering, 'ThatOneGuy, what kind of message does that send?', and I'm glad you asked. One, that Snorri worries that someone/something might try to influence his mind to to make him cause problems, either amongst his own people or with his allies and friends in the dawi. It could also just be a more general warning, never assume you're so great and intelligent as to avoid being manipulated. Or, the surface level interpretation, Snorri assumed this would be the best rune/array to put onto an item for a friend of the High King. Also, we literally have this rune already. It's the Rune of Inner Courage, from the Trial of Courage. It might've been renamed in the intervening time, but if it has been I can't remember.

Rune of Inner Courage: [The wearer has increased bravery. They become generally aware of spells and items being used to negatively impact their mental state.]

Now, the bravery part is also useful, but it's really a side benefit in this case.
 
And also that we can create an equally powerful counter artifact.
I missed this originally. This is likely a bold statement from me, of all people, but I actually am inclined that Snorri at least could, if he put his back into it, given he's a 1000+ year old Runelord with Karaz-Karak-Rhun in the Golden Age of the Karaz Ankor. There is admittedly the issue of "why would he put his back into it" but being that he likes making Runes, I consider that fundamentally a decent enough explanation.
 
Thinking about it the Master rune of brotherhood would be great to use on the Runeversity with the gagle of blacksmits and engineers we have running around.
Or just to let a longbeard carry on a banner and have him just wipe a bunch of beardlings into fighting shape.

kaine when see the capacity of the Dawi to make more killing machines:
I Wanna to have that! I wanna, I wanna I wanna I wanna!
 
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Thinking about it the Master rune of brotherhood would be great to use on the Runeversity with the gagle of blacksmits and engineers we have running around.
Or just to let a longbeard carry on a banner and have him just wipe a bunch of beardlings into fighting shape.
We'd have to convert M!Brotherhood to a Structural or Banner form for those ideas, but it is possible. We actually have a slightly different approach in the form of the Brotherbond combo or the Master Rune Of Fraternity (Weapon):
This is from the Rune List post said:
NameNeccesary IngredientsComplexityEffect
Master Rune of Fraternity[T2] Grimnirzan0User and nearby allies have greatly increased martial skill and improved coordination, they are all innately aware of their comrade's abilities and status for the duration of the battle while in range.
I wonder if a simplified Rune Of Fraternity paired with a Master Rune Of Brotherhood would work even better for training purposes?
 
never assume you're so great and intelligent as to avoid being manipulated
In fact you should wear this ring that will manipulate you so that you can estimate how easily manipulated you are.

Nice try Sauron, but elves aren't so pants on head stupid and in love with double meanings that they'd fall for that.
I missed this originally. This is likely a bold statement from me, of all people, but I actually am inclined that Snorri at least could, if he put his back into it, given he's a 1000+ year old Runelord with Karaz-Karak-Rhun in the Golden Age of the Karaz Ankor. There is admittedly the issue of "why would he put his back into it" but being that he likes making Runes, I consider that fundamentally a decent enough explanation.
Given how shrouded in mystery the circlet of Iron is, it is its hard for me to say, but I think we'd actually be pushing our limit to acheive a single one these:
  • City scale necromancy
  • Strategic possibly Global Clairvoyance
  • 5 times increase in magical power
The circlet of Iron does all three. This seems closer to an ancestors divine artifact than it is something Snorri would make.
Thinking about it the Master rune of brotherhood would be great to use on the Runeversity with the gagle of blacksmits and engineers we have running around.
Or just to let a longbeard carry on a banner and have him just wipe a bunch of beardlings into fighting shape.

kaine when see the capacity of the Dawi to make more killing machines:
I Wanna to have that! I wanna, I wanna I wanna I wanna!
Oh we've been over this before. Its worth pointing out, this is actually potentially offputting to runesmiths because so much of Runecraft is shrouded in secrecy a Rune on a building that allows people to more easily know what you know is something that just seems like a big threat that it will teach people who you haven't deemed worthy your skills.

Now I don't think that it actually would share secrets, most Runesmithing is probably secured by the non magic skill clause, permanent learning is probably acomplished by putting the dwarves on the same wavelength in a vibe sense rather than a telepathic sense. And to be considered allies probably requires more than attending the same college, if you're ideologically opposed like a radical and a conservative then that might not count.
The temporary assimilation of skills is more concerning at that might be an unconscious telepathic thing. And just because allies might not include everyone it also might still include non apprentices so your skills could still be assimilated in a way you wouldn't want.

However we've got a lot of critics, not everyone , Snorri is literally riding the most extreme extent he thought he could push Khazagar, not every dwarf particularly ones who do not know MBrotherhood will agree with my understanding of the rune and risks.
Putting Brotherhood on Khazagar would make the learning process better, but it would also make it even more alienating of a project and given our purpose is primarily to spread runes further and wider, taking a little longer to teach each course is an acceptable trade off when the alternative might be to scare away a fraction of other runesmiths.
E: Oh and whatever you do, please don't suggest putting it on secretly. Thats a huge violation of trust and if ever discovered would convince many people of the worst case scenario
 
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Given how shrouded in mystery the circlet of Iron is, it is its hard for me to say, but I think we'd actually be pushing our limit to acheive a single one these:
  • City scale necromancy
  • Strategic possibly Global Clairvoyance
  • 5 times increase in magical power
The circlet of Iron does all three. This seems closer to an ancestors divine artifact than it is something Snorri would make.
I think the issue there is less Snorri's ability to craft and more that Snorri doesn't want to do two of them (Necromancy, increase magical power) and doesn't know the Runes for one (Strategic Clairvoyance), but if he did know such a Rune he could. Learn M.Grungni's Foresight, I guess?
 
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In fact you should wear this ring that will manipulate you so that you can estimate how easily manipulated you are.

Nice try Sauron, but elves aren't so pants on head stupid and in love with double meanings that they'd fall for that.
... Wait, Sauron once named himself the Lord of Gifts, we are the Gift Giver...

... Now I'm imaging Snorri in Sauron Armour with the One Gift To Rule Them All, and Maliketh as Isildur.
 
... Wait, Sauron once named himself the Lord of Gifts, we are the Gift Giver...

... Now I'm imaging Snorri in Sauron Armour with the One Gift To Rule Them All, and Maliketh as Isildur.
"The One Gift To Rule Them All", huh?

Are you talking about platform shoes? 'Cause he'd need one mean pair to sell the impression.
 
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