Note that all three options might lead Tortun and Hyvani to nurse multigenerational grudges. Just the matter of figuring out which one will nurse grudges the least.
Giving them a close by target for their hate so that they can reunify against something already proven to be easy to beat up (Like what the Nazis did to the jews) Which if they start going genocidal is when I pull out the fucking Button from the first thread.
I don't care, but turning Tortun into Irl Middle East is a no.
 
Courting them diplomatically does require the ability to actually provide significant resistance. Diplomatic fictions leverages real scenarios.

If the real scenario is "the Sketch could do this all by force if they wanted to"...then the diplomatic situation is a problem because you never want to make a threat(and such a recognition and acquisition IS a threat in practice its "mess with them and you have to fight me over them") you can't back up.

The Sketch can back up their colonial claims. For now.

<snip>



Hardly. We're going to need to beat them all up enough to show that the Dual Crown means it, which means actually threatening their respective administrations.
The way Behyvar folded under the double impact means that just pulling out right there leaves a very volatile situation.

The Sketch aren't the only sharks out there and the others we can beat at sea straight up. The Sketch are harder but if they are fighting harder in Syffryn than we are then they will be stretched. Not to mention that in the Kus ocean their ships are operating further from their industrial base than ours - same problem we've been having in the not!Pacific with the Nohon. They will also have significant forces on the continent where our armies can get at them as well as Kus as a hostage to fortune. Just because the Causus Belli is at sea doesn't mean our retaliation has to be naval. So no, as long as they get something from their moves in the region they won't be picking a fight with us to try and get everything.

Protection isn't the main reason to cut a deal with us anyway. Those colonies have half the Halvyni navy which is a quality force. What they don't have is an industrialised trade partner to supply them with modern goods because Syffryn is a burning war zone with their home nation at the heart of the inferno. We are a huge market with the biggest intact economy in the world, we own the debts of many of their companies and we can offer cash and credit. And we have the goodwill of attacking the revolutionaries before the Sketch even though they were closer.

The Sketch haven't made colonial claims against the Halvyni colonies, they've made diplomatic overtures. This is a contest of diplomacy, commerce and espionage.


As to Behyvar: Slowing our offensive is not the same as pulling out. As long as Federation exists we have all the reason we need to keep armies in Behyvar whether or not we make peace with the Ochruhr
 
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Giving them a close by target for their hate so that they can reunify against something already proven to be easy to beat up (Like what the Nazis did to the jews) Which if they start going genocidal is when I pull out the fucking Button from the first thread.
I don't care, but turning Tortun into Irl Middle East is a no.
Impossible. Their grudge is going to be against us if they do hold it, unless they scapegoat a minority, which we can not influence at all. We can't set up something and tell them to fight that, we'd never get an option like that.

We can only try to mitigate this by ending the war quickly and dumping the problem on somebody else.
 
The only path that leads to not having a Tortun state that hates us is to occupy them and maintain a high base happiness so the inevitable -5 happiness in Tortun modifier leaves them not revolting.

I REALLY want to take this moment of high SoL and low consciousness to aim for 10 happiness and the Gather Support PW engine.

At 10 happiness we are such a better quality of life we can actually hold that land.
 
Impossible. Their grudge is going to be against us if they do hold it, unless they scapegoat a minority, which we can not influence at all. We can't set up something and tell them to fight that, we'd never get an option like that.

We can only try to mitigate this by ending the war quickly and dumping the problem on somebody else.
Yes you are missing it.
We cant dump this on someone else, to do so is a mistake.
 
Note that all three options might lead Tortun and Hyvani to nurse multigenerational grudges. Just the matter of figuring out which one will nurse grudges the least.
I'd imagine that would depend on various factors, chief being the Federation's ability to deal with the pressure of the war in tandem with its inherent problems, the way the war goes, the actual terms of the peace settlement, and how the new government(s) deal with the aftermath*.

* No. Not whether or not a marshal plan happens, because its unsustainable in all likelyhood, but how reactionary the new government(s) act. This revolution was born out of desperation.
 
The only path that leads to not having a Tortun state that hates us is to occupy them and maintain a high base happiness so the inevitable -5 happiness in Tortun modifier leaves them not revolting.

I REALLY want to take this moment of high SoL and low consciousness to aim for 10 happiness and the Gather Support PW engine.

At 10 happiness we are such a better quality of life we can actually hold that land.
We cant afford to take land, occupy it for a time yes, but hold it is not in the cards unless they ask us for it, and they currently cant.
 
We can't expect THEM to accept it, but their children can grow up happy under our rule and accept it. And their children, and the children after.

We CAN keep them happy enough that they won't charge our guns for freedom.
 
Yes you are missing it.
We cant dump this on someone else, to do so is a mistake.
Wrong, what we can't do is leave it to fester on it's own, try to hold it ourselves, or try to kill everyone in Tortun. Dumping it on someone else who can hopefully contain it is our only option.
We can't expect THEM to accept it, but their children can grow up happy under our rule and accept it. And their children, and the children after.

We CAN keep them happy enough that they won't charge our guns for freedom.
Even if we could, even though this guys will hate us even more than the Wyrmyn and be far more capable to resist and aware of the capacity, everybody in Syffryn would look at the giant that is us just absorbing Tortun with unbridled terror.

It'd cause so much trouble, I can't even begin to describe it all.
 
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Wrong, what we can't do is leave it to fester on it's own, try to hold it ourselves, or try to kill everyone in Tortun. Dumping it on someone else who can hopefully contain it is our only option.
We already tried that and it failed. Otherwise this war wouldn't be happening in the first place. If your unable to see it then that's on your head.
 
@Academia Nut

If there's a peace conference for the current war, is it possible for the aquired lands to be setup as self standing minor states?
 
We already tried that and it failed. Otherwise this war wouldn't be happening in the first place. If your unable to see it then that's on your head.
No, it succeeded perfectly, up until the world crisis blew up the Syffryn economy. This is not going to happen again (even the ultra capitalist Sketch have to have learned the lesson), and even if it does the chance of a religious fundamentalist sort-of communist uprising is tiny, so that won't happen again. And even if another crazy uprising like this happens, we can ignore it and it'll burn out through sheer incompetence, much like this one would have if we hadn't attacked.

Or we could take them into our territory, and guarantee an uprising that'll happen in our land.
 
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They will unify if left alone to self rule for more than three seconds.

Who said anyone would leave them unattended? They were minor states before and we can restore or make it up. Self standing does not mean unallied or independent. The goal's to not internalize an ammo dump and at least get a thin wall in between.
 
If we went to the sea couldn't we give the land to the keilmyr triple crown?
No, that'd be nuts. The Kielmyr already have more volatile Tortun land han they are fully comfortable with. You can't give them all of Halvyni. Much like Tortun, Halvyni has been it's own thing for way too long to give it to someone else. And, much like Tortun, so long as the economy doesn't go nuclear again they shouldn't do a repeat of this.
 
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Can't we just scrounge up a Prince from somewhere? A cadet branch that doesn't have any inheritance, but prestigious enough to claim a crown.
 
You mean the people who where begging us to save them Every time nationalism kicks into the air?
Cry me a river. We want a group that won't devolve into multiple revolutions when shit hits the fan, the TC have had a decade to prep for nationalism issues, and the TC could take our place eventually as the big stick, so we don't charge into these messes again. And again face "we cannot take land due to fear of opinion."
 
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