Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
Odds are we get it from the Kielmyr investment or the refugees.
Probably both for a nice research windfall.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Why do people keep assuming this is a thing?
The Kielmyr do not share our specialty in optics. We jumped on meta-color research as soon as the option became available, and we're still far from being able to put it into practice, so I'd be shocked if the Kielmyr have somehow figured out an industrial implementation already. On the other hand, they do have a specialty in steel production, so they're probably just incorporating various elements directly into their steel to improve it. See again AN's link and the fact that ytterbium (for example) can be added to steel to strengthen it.
This.
They probably/possibly do have something pretty non standard, as in not existing in real life physics, but if they do, they did not manage it through optics.
This said, I won't be surprised if they have something like mithril or adamantium.
The mundane steel alloys in question doesn't sound especially amazing.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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...and?
They were ready to more or less donate a railroad to get access to this ore easier and sooner. None of real life alloys looked at so far would make such an investment worthwhile.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Considering they are trying their best to keep the title of best metallurgist in the world, slight improvements of the metal are probably good.
And anyway, wouldn't be surprised if Kielmyr had Iron Railroads, so railroads only cost temp IC.
But they would not even be improvements over steel.
And such investments are usually perm IC lost, not temporary one.
So, I was kind of iffy on whether or not to bring this up, in part because it's a rather large powder keg of how things will go down in the future, in part because I'm planning on something similar in my own quest (which is why I'm only going to point out the potential powder keg, not actually discuss it).
Who knows, though, maybe someone has already brought this up and I'm tipping my hand for no good reason.
Someone brought up the idea that metalight might explain our heroes, or at least geniuses in that a genetic mutation may be related to metalight and give them abilities they wouldn't otherwise have. However, this raises a very interesting question about what is going to happen going forward.
How will this effect perceptions on nobility? Royalty? Racism? Eugenics?
*Catches himself writing out more.*
And I'll stop there, just raising the possibility and potential ramifications by extension.
Who knows, though, maybe someone has already brought this up and I'm tipping my hand for no good reason.
Someone brought up the idea that metalight might explain our heroes, or at least geniuses in that a genetic mutation may be related to metalight and give them abilities they wouldn't otherwise have. However, this raises a very interesting question about what is going to happen going forward.
How will this effect perceptions on nobility? Royalty? Racism? Eugenics?
*Catches himself writing out more.*
And I'll stop there, just raising the possibility and potential ramifications by extension.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
What makes you think that optics is the only way to reach magic?
Metallurgical processes can easily be a way to get to it.
- Location
- Somewhere
They do?
I thought they have a buisness relationship with each other while fully hating DC?
Cause the easiest explanation for Sketch's economic issues is heavy investment in nations not the DC, and not allies of the DC. (The Sketch heavily invested in Hex)
Which is a tad bit stupid theory as the Sketch should have fingers in the DC, and the DC's friends. Meaning some banks in Sketch might be operating by treading water for a straight year, but not dead yet. HOW Sketch is burning is significant in revealing how they once benefitted from Hex.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
1. Maybe the DC investments are a pittance compared to other nations (DC going more for straight up trade) that the Sketch have invested in, and 2. perhaps the Hex hostile attitude to the DC's allies (Khem) have made the Sketch look upon them more favourably than they did?
1 seems to be possible, 2 feels unlikely.
"Random Hypothesis, Away!"
It's like the English and the French - powerful, ambitious, right next to each other close enough to meddle in each others' politics. They might sometimes be allies but they're always rivals. The fact that they're both building new world empires + other maritime locations only intensifies it. The harder life is for the Hex in the southern Saffron shore, the better the chance that the Sketch can nick a colony somewhere else.
They also don't want anyone who isn't them holding both not!Pillars of Hercules as the Hex currently do because it makes it too easy to dominate the strait and hence the trade between the Saffron Sea and the ocean.
Edit: The Sketch are not monolithic followers of their government, especially economically. Rich and powerful individuals invest wherever in the world they think they'll make money then use their influence to try and make government policy promote those investments' success. The East Kus Company is a private enterprise (with royal and noble shareholders). Adventurers dragging the government into unasked for wars is how they got half their empire.
It's the same with their innovations, the government does some R&D but mostly it's private inventors (individuals and firms) coming up with something and trying to sell. If it has a military application they'll probably try to sell to their own government first but mostly they want - no need - to sell because it's their own time and money on the line. And if the government wants exclusivity it can pay for it!
They also don't want anyone who isn't them holding both not!Pillars of Hercules as the Hex currently do because it makes it too easy to dominate the strait and hence the trade between the Saffron Sea and the ocean.
Edit: The Sketch are not monolithic followers of their government, especially economically. Rich and powerful individuals invest wherever in the world they think they'll make money then use their influence to try and make government policy promote those investments' success. The East Kus Company is a private enterprise (with royal and noble shareholders). Adventurers dragging the government into unasked for wars is how they got half their empire.
It's the same with their innovations, the government does some R&D but mostly it's private inventors (individuals and firms) coming up with something and trying to sell. If it has a military application they'll probably try to sell to their own government first but mostly they want - no need - to sell because it's their own time and money on the line. And if the government wants exclusivity it can pay for it!
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How Future University Students Will Have to Deal With All This
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
A Day In The Life Of An APDMH Student
Ivan sat and stared.
Two long essay prompts stared back:
Assess the following assertion: Despite the long standing Gulmaryn assertion that the Ymaryn were the source of Gulmaryn's success, the Gylruvians could make an equally valid claim to being the source.
Evaluate the extent to which the short term ramifications of the First Faronic War marked a turning point in the evolution of the Dual Monarchy.
The first option was undoubtedly a trap. The Gylruv had the Qeshyks and Kyberia and not much else, while the Ymaryn held the capital of New Blacksmouth and the Guilds and Trelli and basically everything that made the Dual Monarchy relevant.
Though the Qeshyks did prove to be useful in ... was it the first or second Faronic War ... eh. Still, Ivan couldn't remember anything about Gylruv, so answering the first prompt was right out.
That left the second. What happened in the First Faronic War again? Something like Faron rose up in Tortun, made a Tortun Republic, beat Kielmyr and beat the Dual Monarch - oh that was where the Qeshyks came in! Right, but that was all he could think of for the Gylruv so it didn't matter.
Anyway, right at the end of it King Poetyr called a big constitutional convention where everyone drank all the alcohol in the Gulmaryn (still wasn't sure how they did that) and there was something about universal citizenship and conscription - no, that was backwards, it was universal conscription which gave you citizenship - no, that was the second, after the second Faronic War!
Rrgh. If this was how it was gonna go, Ivan might just have to lie his way through the first prompt. On the other hand, Ivan was sure he knew the stuff about the convention - oh that's right, the end of the war came with two things, a constitutional convention and military reforms, which led to the whole "said to be the greatest army in the world". The constitution had, hm, something about a parliment, right. And the whole drinking thing meant that Guild protections were weakened, which led to the reformation of the Guilds!
Right, Ivan could write this essay now.
Well.
Maybe.
If he could come up with a good intro.
Maybe, "Faron's coming brought a wave of change throughout Syffryn, and the ripples were especially big in the Dual Monarchy."
No, that didn't sound right.
Maybe, "Faron's arrival brought a wave of change throughout Syffryn, and the ripples were felt especially keenly in the Dual Monarchy."
It'd have to do.
Thesis, hm, "The fallout of the First Faronic War caused the first constitution, and the military reforms which would propel the Dual Monarchy's military to number one in the world."
That'd work.
Now for the rest, just a little here about how the first constitution led to the second for a first body paragraph, a little there about the military reformers (notably Cornythyn as the Royalist Third Hand), and that should be a pretty good essay!
86/100 Did not consider alternative viewpoints, but an otherwise strong essay.
Ivan sat and stared.
Two long essay prompts stared back:
Assess the following assertion: Despite the long standing Gulmaryn assertion that the Ymaryn were the source of Gulmaryn's success, the Gylruvians could make an equally valid claim to being the source.
Evaluate the extent to which the short term ramifications of the First Faronic War marked a turning point in the evolution of the Dual Monarchy.
The first option was undoubtedly a trap. The Gylruv had the Qeshyks and Kyberia and not much else, while the Ymaryn held the capital of New Blacksmouth and the Guilds and Trelli and basically everything that made the Dual Monarchy relevant.
Though the Qeshyks did prove to be useful in ... was it the first or second Faronic War ... eh. Still, Ivan couldn't remember anything about Gylruv, so answering the first prompt was right out.
That left the second. What happened in the First Faronic War again? Something like Faron rose up in Tortun, made a Tortun Republic, beat Kielmyr and beat the Dual Monarch - oh that was where the Qeshyks came in! Right, but that was all he could think of for the Gylruv so it didn't matter.
Anyway, right at the end of it King Poetyr called a big constitutional convention where everyone drank all the alcohol in the Gulmaryn (still wasn't sure how they did that) and there was something about universal citizenship and conscription - no, that was backwards, it was universal conscription which gave you citizenship - no, that was the second, after the second Faronic War!
Rrgh. If this was how it was gonna go, Ivan might just have to lie his way through the first prompt. On the other hand, Ivan was sure he knew the stuff about the convention - oh that's right, the end of the war came with two things, a constitutional convention and military reforms, which led to the whole "said to be the greatest army in the world". The constitution had, hm, something about a parliment, right. And the whole drinking thing meant that Guild protections were weakened, which led to the reformation of the Guilds!
Right, Ivan could write this essay now.
Well.
Maybe.
If he could come up with a good intro.
Maybe, "Faron's coming brought a wave of change throughout Syffryn, and the ripples were especially big in the Dual Monarchy."
No, that didn't sound right.
Maybe, "Faron's arrival brought a wave of change throughout Syffryn, and the ripples were felt especially keenly in the Dual Monarchy."
It'd have to do.
Thesis, hm, "The fallout of the First Faronic War caused the first constitution, and the military reforms which would propel the Dual Monarchy's military to number one in the world."
That'd work.
Now for the rest, just a little here about how the first constitution led to the second for a first body paragraph, a little there about the military reformers (notably Cornythyn as the Royalist Third Hand), and that should be a pretty good essay!
86/100 Did not consider alternative viewpoints, but an otherwise strong essay.
I'm thinking you might be underestimating the importance of doped steels because you're thinking purely in terms of hulls and cannon, where volume and mass of production is the most important.
Stainless steel, even in small quantities is extremely important for surgical tools as it doesn't rust and is thus a massive leap medically for anything that goes inside the body.
Tool steels is the same for the metalworking industry, consider how much of an economic benefit they get out of having drills and saw blades which can be used to cut and shape steel cleanly without being degraded in the process, and which can tolerate high temperatures without deformation. This, amongst other things, makes steel screws and bolts very economical to thread, as well as improving clockwork...and also for rifling.
Its as big a jump as optical glass.
Also chemistry.
More powerful explosives, various medicines, etc, etc.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
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That's pretty accurate to history essay test writing, well done. A mix of "shit, which period was that in?" and "I remember this caused that and there's some amusing anecdote about that, so using dodgy logic I can figure out what happened when, probably.
I'm not sure if we'll ever have AP exams or courses as they are in the US, as the situation in Gulmaryn is hardly the same as in the US. On the other hand, standardized testing has been around since the Han dynasty, so something analogous is likely in my eyes.
I'm not sure if we'll ever have AP exams or courses as they are in the US, as the situation in Gulmaryn is hardly the same as in the US. On the other hand, standardized testing has been around since the Han dynasty, so something analogous is likely in my eyes.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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...they literally would be though? The idea is they would add new elements to their steel production to make the steel better. How would that not be better than steel?
As for the IC cost, it might be Temp for them because of their superior production technologies in the relevant field. It normally costs us Perm IC, but that doesn't mean that's universal.
Oh, absolutely - but I doubt the non-optically-accessed magic will take the direct form of meta-color. That's a very specifically optical phenomenon. How would you get weird light out of metallurgical processes? Would the molten metal just start glowing meta-orange for some reason? That seems like a pretty out-there speculation.
So yes, the Kielmyr may have weird stuff going on with their alloying, but I don't think it's the same weird stuff as we have going on with our optics.
One hint we got is that they're using the same ores that we're using in the production of metacolor glasses. So, that's how people might have jumped to the conclusion that Kiemlyr discovered metacolor too.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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- Something Clever
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I mean, yes, but it seems like a hell of a jump. Like...if I wanted to make leaps of logic to connect their circumstances to our own experiences more closely, which I don't especially, there would be a much simpler option: given that we can reliably produce "special" glass by doping it with this ore, maybe the Kielmyr can dope their steel with the ore to produce magic-interacting metal of some kind. So unless we assume (on absolutely no basis) that meta-color is the one and only way in which this setting's physics diverge from RL, that provides a perfectly reasonable explanation for the situation that doesn't invoke meta-color use on the Kielmyr's part at all.