Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

FractiousDay · Mar 12, 2021

In regards to voting for the decisions here, I would suggest using the following system, and then editing the plan if others note particular points.

[EXAMPLE] Example Plan

Take command. Deploy infantry at top of path to block centaur. Fight there until elders can complete victory. Retain Akinos as support, but permit the Blademaster to deploy himself as he sees fit. Send all elders and Acolytes to complete a summoning ritual to summon powerful and numerous demons into the centaur camp. Deploy Sarilus to summon water elementals and act as magical support, counterspelling the centaur shaman if possible. Deploy self to infantry formation, maintain command level view but jump in where necessary. Deploy watchers to keep an eye on anyone coming up the slopes.

You can make general statements about strategy if you want, like 'try to block the path to buy the elders time' and therefore not need to go into the specifics of who goes where.

I'll note anything that's not physically possible, or against all military sense, but otherwise will leave it to you to discuss different matters.

You actions thus far have dictated your knowledge of the different capabilities of your forces. You know basically everything Akinos can and will do, while you now distinctly less about the Elders.

Cryos · Mar 13, 2021

I just now caught up with the last update, first of all, great storytelling, I have enjoyed reading it immensely and I always love a good warcraft quest.
Now then, I will attempt to make a plan.

[X] Plan Let them pay for every inch

Before the battle starts, attempt to commune with Proudpeak and try to negotiate for his help in the coming battle.

Take command. Estabilish and fortify multiple defensible positions along the chokepoints of the main path, the outermost will be the main defensive position with the others serving as fallback lines in case the enemy is somehow able to push through or render the main defensive position indefensible through other means.
Care should be taken to ensure that the Kolkar are not able to charge the main defensive position, by choosing an appropriate spot and altering the terrain beforehand (Spiked palisades, maybe just making the terrain rougher and more difficult and whatever our spellcasters can manage, Proudpeak can probably do this if he agrees to help us).

The bulk of the Infantry should of course hold the main defensive position, acting as the main focus point of the battle and hopefully utilizing the advantages of terrain and whatever fortifications we can muster to turn the melee into a Kolkar meatgrinder, this is also where we ourselves will be stationed to direct and take part in the main part of the fight and coordinate any necessary retreat to one of the fallback lines.

The Elders should stay behind the last fallback line (or wherever they need to be for their purposes) and attempt to complete a large scale ritual to turn the tide of the battle either by destroying the main Kolkar force or summoning demons to do it for them.

The Acolytes (unless needed for the ritual) should use their powers and magics to keep pressure on the enemy spellcasters and ranged attackers in general to make sure they cannot attempt to easily swing the main melee battle in the Kolkar's favor.
Sarilus should act as magic support as well but focus on defense and disruption of enemy spellcasting.

Akinos himself should take a handful of Cultists to form a Rapid response force whose job it will be to reinforce any weak points in the main formation as they may develop, respond to any unforeseen circumstances (for example shaman shenanigans), and in general deal with any sneaky business the Kolkar may attempt.

Have Proudpeak (If he agrees to help) defend our main defensive position by tanking incoming spells.

Speaking of sneaky business, we will inform Akinos and Sarilus of the Dark Rider and put the two trolls on sentinel duty to make sure no enemy force can sneak up behind our lines and cause problems.

The plan is based on making the most out of our defensive position while trying to deny the Kolkar any advantage they may have, be it in numbers, mobility or ranged support.
Our victory condition is to stall teh enemy long enough to let the Elder warlocks finish the summoning which is the reason for our focus on defense.
of course there is the Dark Rider which is a big fat question mark, but frankly we don't know enough to do something about it more specific and let's face it, no plan survives contact with the enemy which is why i left some leeway for Akinos to be flexible because he's probably the one that has seen the most battles here.

Please let me know if there is something I could add or modify, I wanted to do something with Proudpeak but I just had no idea how to fit him in without unnecessary risks.

Edit: it just now dawned on me how similar this plan is to the final battle at Mount Hyjal, I wonder if this is where Grok'mash would take inspiration from in character?
Edit 2: Added the use of our action to commune with proudpeak as well as his duties should he agree to help.

Baltika9 · Mar 13, 2021

Cryos said:
Edit: it just now dawned on me how similar this plan is to the final battle at Mount Hyjal, I wonder if this is where Grok'mash would take inspiration from in character?

Huh, that would be a nice IC moment.

Sorry, too busy with life stuff to have planned here. I'll take this one.
[X] Plan Let them pay for every inch

FractiousDay · Mar 13, 2021

Cryos said:
I just now caught up with the last update, first of all, great storytelling, I have enjoyed reading it immensely and I always love a good warcraft quest.

Glad you liked it! Let me know if there's anything specific you enjoyed or didn't enjoy as I'm always interested in feedback

Cryos said:
Hyjal

This raises somewhat of an interesting question regarding tactics when you bring in magic. Warfare like Hyjal becomes 'stall/facilitate the greatest caster', either Malfurion or Archimonde. Everything else falls on them, everyone else helps them out or opposes the other, no amount of good maneuvering or similar matters when the big spell gets cast.

As for IC, yes sure, feel free, the character would certainly be more than familiar with it

Cryos said:
I wanted to do something with Proudpeak but I just had no idea how to fit him in without unnecessary risks.

Keep in mind this is a time to take risks. Unlike the battle against Darkstorm your victory is far from assured. If you want to take some risks, like using Proudpeak as some sort of human shield to tank incoming spells, using it as sacrifice fuel along with the prisoners and so on those are things you could do.

The one comment from me is whether your orcs are disciplined enough to make a staggered retreat through rough terrain, but that's something for you to decide.

Zaealix · Mar 13, 2021

*crosses arms*...
The time to make a Deal with Proudpeak is 'now' in the sense that we need to set it up BEFORE the Centaur are here.
The problem I have, is I don't actually KNOW how to feed/do good things for Elementals.
I'm thinking basically a few things:
One, we set ProudPeak into THIS mountain, and offer to support him taking it over from whoever's already in there.
Not a great offer-I could see ProudPeak rejecting this, IDK how Elemental society works in Warcraft, but I do think they're generally friendly to their own kind.
Two, whatever aid we ask of ProudPeak, we basically offer...IDK how much precisely, but a certain amount of support, and a 'do not touch' agreement from the Warlocks. In general, I like the idea of offering 'do not touch' clauses from the Warlocks-Thrall WILL dissaprove, no doubt, of basically threatening the Elements into service, but I'm kind of hoping it at least ensures even the darkest of Orcish Traditions know a thing or two about how to talk to Elementals, and what I'm REALLY hoping, is the 'do not touch'+ gift-giving and aid places the Orcs in a situation where they're commited to maintaining their Elemental Connections.
Of course, I also see the Elders dissaproving of trying to barter what we should simply take-but if they say so, I would say that if we take, we can use it only once, like a sacrifice. But a Deal like this, will not only be power for now, but can be power for the next generation *points to Feldad&Akinos* And the next generation *points to self* And so on and so forth. Something that won't fall apart if someone does not have the strength to sustain it.
*hopefully ambiguous enough that it can be twisted easily, which it will need to be.*
...Third, perhaps, is a service not made by the clan, but made by ourselves- we will ask one thing of ProudPeak, and return him to his mountain, and never again disturb him, on pain of suffering the Earth's Wrath. Personal sacrifice, plain and simple.

So, that's what I can think of to offer to ProudPeak. But what do we want FROM him?
...A few ideas come to mind.
One, Stoneskin buff for the battle on us personally, if not all our warriors.
Two, something something ProudPeak attacks Darkrider. This may demand a clause of being fed power to replenish him afterwards, depending upon the needs of the situation, and I need a nice, obvious target so he doesn't just squish some mook shaman and call it a day.
Third, is to re-shape the terrain in ways that would inconvience the centaur horde-instead of building walls and trenches, we have ProudPeak do it, in exchange for our three offers.

FractiousDay · Mar 13, 2021

Zaealix said:
The time to make a Deal with Proudpeak is 'now' in the sense that we need to set it up BEFORE the Centaur are here.

This would indeed take up the 1 action you've got before the battle starts

Zaealix said:
The problem I have, is I don't actually KNOW how to feed/do good things for Elementals.

Don't treat them entirely like people, but they're close. They desire their own aggrandisement, sometimes worship but mainly respect, sometimes power, sometimes the completion of a particular task.

Keep in mind you assaulted and kidnapped this particular elemental.

Negation · Mar 13, 2021

FractiousDay said:
This would indeed take up the 1 action you've got before the battle starts

Don't treat them entirely like people, but they're close. They desire their own aggrandisement, sometimes worship but mainly respect, sometimes power, sometimes the completion of a particular task.

Keep in mind you assaulted and kidnapped this particular elemental.

So if we sacrifice Centaurs to Proudpeak, would Therazane pick a fight with him?

FractiousDay · Mar 13, 2021

Negation said:
So if we sacrifice Centaurs to Proudpeak, would Therazane pick a fight with him?

Ah so it's Theredras who's the mother of the centaurs and Therazane is Theredras' mother, so the grandmother.

I don't really think she'd care actually, potentially about either the sacrificed centaurs or the empowered elemental. If there was a choice she's probably care about the elemental though and like that it was being empowered with 'some random mortals'.

Comparably Theredras, the centaurs' racial mother, would indeed be very upset, but she is already because canonically she's pushing the centaurs out to go conquering because she wants them to be safe or something? It's not terribly clear.

Zaealix · Mar 13, 2021

FractiousDay said:
Ah so it's Theredras who's the mother of the centaurs and Therazane is Theredras' mother, so the grandmother.

I don't really think she'd care actually, potentially about either the sacrificed centaurs or the empowered elemental. If there was a choice she's probably care about the elemental though and like that it was being empowered with 'some random mortals'.

Comparably Theredras, the centaurs' racial mother, would indeed be very upset, but she is already because canonically she's pushing the centaurs out to go conquering because she wants them to be safe or something? It's not terribly clear.

I don't entirely know the whole story but I do recall something about the Elements being screwed up by the Old Gods, so that strikes me as a potential example of the Madness of the Old Gods manifesting itself in the Elementals.
Soo It sounds like Theredras would be unhappy but she's already unhappy. The BIGGER problem is how that translates to the Centaur Shamen- I can see them basically using their ways to say to ProudPeak 'Yo, bro, could you smooth our path out for us?' and it's plausible that given we GOT Proudpeak to answer to us through force of arms he goes 'sure dogs, here, lemme do you a solid and lead your boys to the enemy leader, it's this guy. Oh, but also watch out for that guy who's moving to gank your Dark dude.'
So, definitely going to want a longer-term Incentive, or at least something where once Proudpeak is paid he doesn't immeadiately try to smash our head in.

FractiousDay · Mar 13, 2021

Zaealix said:
So, definitely going to want a longer-term Incentive, or at least something where once Proudpeak is paid he doesn't immeadiately try to smash our head in.

Or sacrifice him and get in on that sweet sweet Fel energy!

Negation · Mar 13, 2021

The Theradras storyline is seriously unclear.

So OK, lets sacrifice the centaurs to Proudpeak after the battle as an experiment. Dealing with Theradras is his problem.

Zaealix · Mar 13, 2021

Hrrrm...Okay. so sacrifice of centaurs going to Proudpeak. Thrall no likey, but it beats them getting mulched for Fel in his opinion, I'd imagine.
I'm sure the Warlocks will be PISSED if they have to kill all these centaur without sacrifices to boost their power though. I think...Yes.
Proudpeak can claim any and all centaurs he personally kills, but in case he can do that sort of thing ANYWAY...Maybe we match his kill count and give him that of the dead. Less fuel for the Fel, but a deal the Warlocks won't entirely be pissed off at us about, perhaps.
That, crossed with the 'return him to the mountain without further use' clause MIGHT be enough for him to be...grudging but not so angry as to call down additional Elementals on our head at some point when we're not prepared for them, I think.
Now, that done, we now have some offensive magic against the Centaur to wield. Possibly the Dark-Rider, if my bet is right and that guy will be freaky to Elementals in general, ProudPeak might target him. Might not. But with this deal we can have a second-roving threat for the Centaur to deal with, possibly akin to Akinos.
That DOES make me feel a tad better but IDK if Proudpeak is that powerful...
Actually, different deal-
Proudpeak gets kill for kill granted to him, he kills an orc deal's off, he tries for us we beat him down and drain the Mountain to nothing. Strength can stand with Strength, or he can risk losing Everything, instead of simply having a moment of humiliation. I THINK that's a solid enough deal.
Beyond that...I dunno.

FractiousDay · Mar 13, 2021

Negation said:
, lets sacrifice the centaurs to Proudpeak after the battle as an experiment

So at the moment just think about your 1 action before the battle and then your activities during the battle itself. You can line stuff up for after if you like, but for now just think about what's going on immediately.

Also, unless you explicitly order them not to (and are able to compel them to stop), the warlocks will be sacrificing every centaur prisoner you have currently. There'll probably be enough centaur wounded around after the battle to feed to either the warlocks or Proudpeak if you want to.

Zaealix said:
Thrall no likey, but it beats them getting mulched for Fel in his opinion, I'd imagine.

I'm not going to explicitly lay out what Thrall will or won't do on this, but just to be clear, there could be serious consequences if you proceed in such a manner. You're entirely permitted to take such an action, but various people will have various reactions to it so keep that in mind.

Negation · Mar 13, 2021

[X] Plan Let them pay for every inch

Cryos · Mar 14, 2021

FractiousDay said:
Keep in mind this is a time to take risks. Unlike the battle against Darkstorm your victory is far from assured. If you want to take some risks, like using Proudpeak as some sort of human shield to tank incoming spells, using it as sacrifice fuel along with the prisoners and so on those are things you could do.

The one comment from me is whether your orcs are disciplined enough to make a staggered retreat through rough terrain, but that's something for you to decide.

Oh I didn't mean risks to Proudpeak, I meant it was a risk because we couldn't ensure it's cooperation and adding another unkown element to a battle is always dangerous, as for sacrificing him for the ritual honestly I don't think it would sit well with Grok'mash, he's trying to be a shaman and sacrificing the elements to the Fel for power, no matter how needed is something he should never consider, also from a more practical standpoint how could the elements trust someone willing to do that? That's the sort of thing that made the shamans of old lose their connection to the elements.

I suppose if we could convince Proudpeak to help by negotiating with him with our action then he could be deployed to help with the defense.

Now, whether the orcs are disciplined enough to make a retreat is a very important question,it's the reason I put ourselves in the middle of the melee instead of the rapid response unit where we would be able to utilize our strength more effectively, we need to be there to coordinate to improve the chance to make an orderly retreat as much as possible.

Now if the battle goes well we won't even need the fallback lines but let's face it there is no way things are going to go smoothly.

FractiousDay · Mar 15, 2021

Adhoc vote count started by FractiousDay on Mar 15, 2021 at 3:57 AM, finished with 37 posts and 3 votes.

3 people have voted
[X] Plan Let them pay for every inch
- Cryos
- Baltika9
- Negation

Not many votes but complex ones like this sometimes don't get many. Voting closed. @Cryos did you want to make any final amends, for example in the use of Proudpeak who otherwise will be remaining in a cave somewhere on his own

Cryos · Mar 15, 2021

I didn't really use our one action so I might as well use it on trying to negotiate with Proudpeak to get him to help, i'm going to make the edit now.

Edit: Aaand done, please read over the plan again as I added what Proudpeak should do if he agrees to help.

Netos · Mar 15, 2021

Do you trust Proudpeak to not be swayed by the Centaur Shamans?
Hopefully it regards betrayal beneath him... or takes up the task as a matter of pride...

FractiousDay · Mar 15, 2021

Ok lets do some rolls

Excellent defence in second and third rounds

Cryos · Mar 15, 2021

Ah well the rolls could have gone better but they could definitely have gone a lot worse, I hope the Proudpeak rolls are good so that if we make it out of this we may atleast have made some progress with our connection with the elements.

Zaealix · Mar 15, 2021

...I do not like the story those dice told. Cripes...

FractiousDay · Mar 15, 2021

Cryos said:
I hope the Proudpeak rolls are good so that if we make it out of this we may atleast have made some progress with our connection with the elements.

Oh no I didn't even roll for that, I rolled for which phase on the battle he made his own attack, which happens to be the same phase the warlocks are at a crucial point in their summoning, trying to persuade him after you assaulted and kidnapped him was always going to fail, remember, 'the mountain does not bow'

Zaealix · Mar 15, 2021

FractiousDay said:
Oh no I didn't even roll for that, I rolled for which phase on the battle he made his own attack, which happens to be the same phase the warlocks are at a crucial point in their summoning, trying to persuade him after you assaulted and kidnapped him was always going to fail, remember, 'the mountain does not bow'

*sighes* dangit. Right. We needed to strong-arm him, not try to bargain, since that arguing from a position of strength was established as how we work, Especially after Baneshadow's Blade...
Okay. That's a rough time to learn a harsh lesson.

FractiousDay · Mar 15, 2021

Zaealix said:
That's a rough time to learn a harsh lesson.

Oh don't worry there's more to come! I'm going to quite enjoy writing this chapter actually, it's the culmination of a couple of plot threads which I've been hinting and outright stating in certain places

Cryos · Mar 15, 2021

FractiousDay said:
Oh no I didn't even roll for that, I rolled for which phase on the battle he made his own attack, which happens to be the same phase the warlocks are at a crucial point in their summoning, trying to persuade him after you assaulted and kidnapped him was always going to fail, remember, 'the mountain does not bow'

That... actually makes a lot of sense....well at least hopefully the lesson about it will stick given the consequences are not going to be pretty, now which lesson Grok'mash learns is the more interesting question, if we had been Vengeful this could have been a nice segue into giving up on the elements and just giving the ol' Fel a try, maybe by sacrifing a bullheaded elemental to start with, as it is given we were given a lesson by one of our previous teachers in shamanism about how the elements are sort of like worgs I think it might just reinforce that one instead, what we did is the equivalent of trying to ride an untrained worg, one that quite frankly intimately dislikes us because we tried unsuccessfuly to tame it.

So there is the lesson, the Elements are not like people and you cannot interact and convince them like people, they are literal forces of nature, to be a shaman you must understand them, their place in the world and at the same time your place in the world among them, and through this understanding you gain power over them, and some will bend to your will easily and even happily while others....won't, and in fact will oppose you at every turn and even be a danger to your people, not out of malice but because it is their nature.

The warm fire by the hearth is a shield against the winter cold, the sturdy stone of the wall a necessary part of the fortification, a fresh breeze is a balm upon the skin on a hot day, but the fire that threatens to consume the village must be extinguished, the stinging desert wind must be defended against and the fury of the rivers and tides must be kept in check if your coastal settlements are to survive and prosper.
All this to say, if the mountain will not bow....then perhaps it must broken.

You know all of these pretty words and flowery language are going to feel pretty pointless if we don't get to learn a thing because we get murderized by Kolkar centaurs, which is starting to feel more likely by the minute.

....probably should have stuck with my gut feeling and just not bothered with the damn hunk of rock.

Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

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