Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

And part of the problem is the complete decoupling of "Orc economy" and "local economy".
That is a question of whether we consider Alterac to be our long-term stronghold, or if we intend to up and leave in five or even ten years. We can't integrate economies and then safely decouple them later.

Personally, I always thought of Alterac as a camp site to rally our troops to in-between missions. Essentially, I see the mercenary actions we take as the primary reason for us being here on the continent, and all the nationbuilding stuff as support actions. My goal is to have Alterac functional enough to support our forays in pursuit of our real goal here as I understand it, the unification of Lordaeron orcs behind the banners of our clan.
Indeed, but how are you transporting them etc. This is Grok's considerations while they're going along, that humans just wouldn't be able to keep up with the swole rock boys that are the Orcs.
The problem appears to be the same as the mobile artillery question I posed back in Alterac 11 when Stormpikes gave us their cannons. How do we keep them in the army and retain the mobility of the raiding force?

The answer seems to be OPCs: Ogre Personnel Carriers.

Two ogres can easily drive a cart with a dozen people in it. They'd be harder to supply with provisions as they likely consume more than they can transport, but we wouldn't need a whole detachment of them; just enough to keep the mobility up, plus some spares. That they can hold their own in a fight if it comes to it is a bonus.
 
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That is a question of whether we consider Alterac to be our long-term stronghold, or if we intend to up and leave in five or even ten years. We can't integrate economies and then safely decouple them later.

Personally, I always thought of Alterac as a camp site to rally our troops to in-between missions. Essentially, I see the mercenary actions we take as the primary reason for us being here on the continent, and all the nationbuilding stuff as support actions. My goal is to have Alterac functional enough to support our forays in pursuit of our real goal here as I understand it, the unification of Lordaeron orcs behind the banners of our clan.
What's the feeling towards getting control of blackrock if Alterac is but a temporary refuge?
 
It seems like the situation is heading this way already. We are in conflict with Rend's allies. Rend is in conflict with ours. If Grok were more inclined to shadow warfare this could keep going for years, but with HONORU at stake It's just a matter of time until open hostilities are declared.

Rend has a place carved out for orcs that appears capable of supporting them. Taking over after his untimely passing sounds logical enough.
 
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It seems like the situation is heading this way already. We are in conflict with Rend's allies. Rend is in conflict with ours. If Grok were more inclined to shadow warfare this could keep going for years, but with a matter of HONORU at stake It's just a matter of time until open hostilities are declared.
I think with the way things are going at Alterac, Grok does need to find another place to alleviate the situation. A presence can still be kept at Alterac but as the steward has mentioned too many influx of new visitors.

Grok needs new clay to settle a growing population.

I'm starting to wonder if another Makgora is possible just over a difference in policy.
 
No and this annoys me. I've corrected now but I assumed the more linguistically complex name was the older one when I was fabricating the explanation for the lazy writing of just repeating the character's name twice.
Oh... Well, I just wanted to commend you for clever writing with it. Another idea could be that Knaak's "Nekros" is just a human version of hearing it, and the two guys were just Nek'rosh I and Nek'rosh Jr.
Khaz Modan had Blizzard forget stuff all the time. Falstad Wildhammer is probably the most egregious example.
 
we do need to think where would be the best place for the orcs to settle cause no where they currently are is good. like thrall has the best but unhappy negibours, rend is in two wars against his negibours (unless he somehow got the dark iron to stop which is possibly cause ragnaros is loyal to the old gods and so the dark iron who are ragnaros slaves are same as neferian who is the puppetmaster of rends horde ) and alteracs problems for us got brought up this last part
 
My personal thought is invest in Alterac and declare ourself the 'Eastern Warchief' in effect a lesser Warchief aligned with Thrall/under his authority…
Yes it's pulling games with our Exile, but depending on the terms of that we might be okay if it was say, Exile from Orgrimmar, as opposed to exile from being a part of Thrall's Horde.
 
My personal thought is invest in Alterac and declare ourself the 'Eastern Warchief' in effect a lesser Warchief aligned with Thrall/under his authority…
What is the point of explicitly recognizing authority of the one who already views us as a rival?

It just means Thrall can order us around, and he would want us gone. It's not going to eliminate rivalry; it would only put us in a disadvantageous position.
 
Would you propose to claim leadership over the entirety of Orc-kind, including Orgrimmar? Besides, us drawing a line in the sand and saying "I rule here, you are still the overlord" is not a bad development for Thrall. He seems quite overwhelmed - and undermined, by Neeru Fireblade among others.
And if you fear him sending us on a suicide mission, well, we can choose how to approach it or even tell him to stuff it depending on what it is.
It's sorta like kicking the ball in his field: if he wants to start hostilities, it's on him. Not on us proclaiming ourselves "Warchief of the Horde, claiming dominion over all the Orcs and their allies everywhere".

I like the idea of the Eastern Horde. If Thrall becomes hostile, he faces the immediate political problem of "what have you ever done for the Orcs of Lordaeron in recent years?". We are enemies of Dal'rend, which was inevitable and already brewing, while our claim is not unreasonable at all - because we are the ones actually struggling to give shelter and organization to the Orcs of the Eastern continent, so it is very much justified.
 
What is the point of explicitly recognizing authority of the one who already views us as a rival?

It just means Thrall can order us around, and he would want us gone. It's not going to eliminate rivalry; it would only put us in a disadvantageous position.
My understanding is that Thrall is a rival but one who doesn't particularly want to fight us-he will if he has to but only if then.
So if we can maintain a polite fiction of sorts that keeps us from directly contesting his role as Warchief, he can reciprocate by not going after us. Useful, since that means not having to fight both Thrall and Rend, who as I understand things, is inherently hostile to us due to being from the New Horde, and being active in his backyard.
 
My understanding is that Thrall is a rival but one who doesn't particularly want to fight us-he will if he has to but only if then.
No, he is not a fighter. But we are another center of power that dilutes his own. Any orc unhappy with the way Thrall runs things will come to us. We already took outlaws under our wing, and they are pushing for us to rise higher and to challenge the authority under which they couldn't prosper.

Which means he will be exerting pressure politically, and putting yourself in a subordinate position makes it all the easier for him. We'll be made into a fall guy again and again, and left to tend to matters that Thrall couldn't resolve -- at least, without sapping our own legitimacy.

Would you propose to claim leadership over the entirety of Orc-kind, including Orgrimmar? Besides, us drawing a line in the sand and saying "I rule here, you are still the overlord" is not a bad development for Thrall. He seems quite overwhelmed - and undermined, by Neeru Fireblade among others.
No, but I'd rather maintain ambiguity of an exile who fights for the Horde without answering to the overlord over the seas. Thrall being undermined by our father (who, in turn, would grow his influence and potential support he could give us as his de facto heir) is one of the points of setting ourselves as a Warchief, and the reason why Grok is unwilling to do so. He understands the consequences.

And if you fear him sending us on a suicide mission, well, we can choose how to approach it or even tell him to stuff it depending on what it is.
Grok isn't stupid enough to go on a plain suicide mission, and he is just strong enough to return victorious from one.

No, what I am afraid of is a series of requests that result in a number of extremely unpopular decisions in order to satisfy them. Being put in lose/lose situations, where we have to lose either resourses or face -- like a mission to save the Forgotten (the nominal allies of the Horde), only without the means Neeru conveniently provided.
 
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Thrall is trapped just as Grok is trapped in both of their responsibilities. I don't think there's good chances of reconciliation after what Drek'Thar did.

If it's not Grok then it's his suspicions of the BB clan which is making it harder that I don't see Grok ever seeing himself putting himself back under Thrall's leadership after the stunt he pulled.

He'd probably accept that there's too many differences that he'd go for an unofficial split while maintaining relations.
 
A number of stout ponies and remounts would allow a small force of specialists to keep pace fairly well, the Mongols employed trained ponies to great effect over long distance most famously. And Alterac, being hilly and mountainous terrain, should likely have access to them, and it is a much easier ask than mountain horses.

As far as keeping up on foot is concerned, Humans have the potential to be very potent long distance trekkers, though admittedly it requires years of training to be noteworthy if one didn't grow up doing it. For the priests in question, having good physical conditioning isn't necessarily out of the question, but perhaps there are ways for them to improve their stamina using the light. Chants, prayers, and benedictions echoing outward from a clerical detachment, fasting for days and appearing utterly indefatigable would at the least be very cool. There are examples of aura effects in WC3 and WoW anyway.

Just floating some ideas here, both conventional and magical.
 
My understanding is that Thrall is a rival but one who doesn't particularly want to fight us-he will if he has to but only if then.
So if we can maintain a polite fiction of sorts that keeps us from directly contesting his role as Warchief, he can reciprocate by not going after us. Useful, since that means not having to fight both Thrall and Rend, who as I understand things, is inherently hostile to us due to being from the New Horde, and being active in his backyard.

Thrall is trapped just as Grok is trapped in both of their responsibilities. I don't think there's good chances of reconciliation after what Drek'Thar did.
So while Grok and Thrall don't necessarily have personal emnity toward each other, neither regard the other as an evil person etc, they're currently in a state of political conflict due to their respective statuses. Same with Grok and Rend etc.

I will draw a line under the discussions of Grok subordinating himself to Thrall. Grok doesn't trust Thrall, and actively distrusts him in certain ways due to his specific experiences. As such he wouldn't consider that as an option and it's not one I'd permit you to vote for etc.

The best thing that you could do at the moment re relations with Thrall might be to have this polite fiction idea where Grok retains a position of deliberate ambiguity about his status. If Thrall resigned and went off to be a shaman like he does in Cata, and maybe made an apology to Grok, that would go a long way to reducing emnity.

However, of couse, this isn't a 2 player game.

There are external people as well as internal who might want to destabalise this situation. For example, Dathrohan is interested in creating a friendly Horde via Grok because he's a dreadlord and mistakenly believes that Grok is on his side. As such Dathrohan has an interest in weakening Thrall or pushing Grok to declare himself. If Dathrohan starts calling Grok a Warchief and telling everyone that he is, Thrall definitely can't take that and would have to act. Similarly, if Runewatcher or Scorn or others with similar motives want to advance themselves through Grok then they're not necessarily going to care about whether or not it'll cause problems for the relationship with Thrall. Indeed, they may want it to be more problematic to advance themselves.
 
Whatever happens from this point forward I have two requests:

1) we stop waffling so much on the Warchief question and either declare that we aren't a warchief ( something our people will dislike and that will actively hunt our efforts) or we put on the mantle. I wouldn't be opposed to continuing to act as a waechief but defacto waiting for Thrall to bow or mess up, so long as it stops occupying so much of the word count.

2) we desperately need to be more proactive INSIDE Alterac, we lost most of our momentum and now we need to work around a bureaucracy that we could have made to be loyal to us, and we are stuck on the back foot. NO MORE EXCURSIONS OUTSIDE OF THE BORDER UNTIL WE FIX OUR HOUSE.
That means:
A) Handling the Gilneans, these are all artisans and thus a logistical miracle waiting to happen, they could see to it that our forces stay well equipped and let us tech up with our mail and the Orcish Rifles.

B) Training and expanding the Alterac Military while making them loyal to us, so theybare fit for operation. Because our partner and his supporters don't like us and we need both a monopoly of violence and Human enforcers so that this doesn't feel like an orcish occupation. The humans are growing more used to us and that means they will either start to resent us or become amenable to us and I would rather the later.

C) Figuring out and or formalizing our logistics, every time it comes up it sounds like we are barely ahead of the next meal, foraging and lowkey stealing from people. We need to fix that soon or we are going to gain massive bad will and eventually run out of food.
 
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Cool, I have my opinions on these things:

1) we stop waffling so much on the Warchief question and either declare that we aren't a warchief ( something our people will dislike and that will actively hunt our efforts) or we put on the mantle. I wouldn't be opposed to continuing to act as a waechief but defacto waiting for Thrall to bow or mess up, so long as it stops occupying so much of the word count.
I say we declare ourselves the Protector of the Orcs of Lordaeron (that we have been de facto), the Warchief of the Eastern Horde: independent, not subordinate to Thrall (so he will be hostile to us? Weird flex on his part but ok:tongue:) but without making immediately a claim on Orgrimmar because we need to clean house with Dal'rend first. And for me, Thrall can manage (or mismanage) Orgrimmar as he wishes, we have a full plate here already without immediately picking a fight across the sea.

2) we desperately need to be more proactive INSIDE Alterac, we lost most of our momentum and now we need to work around a bureaucracy that we could have made to be loyal to us, and we are stuck on the back foot. NO MORE EXCURSIONS OUTSIDE OF THE BORDER UNTIL WE FIX OUR HOUSE.
That means:
1) Handling the Gilneans, these are all artisans and thus a logistical miracle waiting to happen, they could see to it that our forces stay well equipped and let us tech up with our mail and the Orcish Rifles.
Seconded. Alterac is becoming quite the disaster: a hodgepodge of a territory that hates us. So this should take priority with respect to the camping excursions and roadtrips. And the Gilneans are a greater priority than the Alteraci military IMO, before someone snatches them or turns them against us.

3) Figuring out and or formalizing our logistics, every time it comes up it sounds like we are barely ahead of the next meal, foraging and lowkey stealing from people. We need to fix that soon or we are going to gain massive bad will and eventually run out of food.
That was to be expected, we are Orcs. This logistics thingy is too complicated for us. As if there is any other way of existing that is not being barely ahead of the next meal.
Ehm, I mean, of course. Gotta figure someting out. Maybe we can use a part of the Gilnean treasure, or the provents of the mines, to pay for it.
 
I say we declare ourselves the Protector of the Orcs of Lordaeron (that we have been de facto), the Warchief of the Eastern Horde: independent, not subordinate to Thrall (so he will be hostile to us? Weird flex on his part but ok:tongue:) but without making immediately a claim on Orgrimmar because we need to clean house with Dal'rend first. And for me, Thrall can manage (or mismanage) Orgrimmar as he wishes, we have a full plate here already without immediately picking a fight across the sea.

For me, it's less about picking a fight with Thrall and more about satisfying our companions and giving us more authority to deal with other orcs. There are too many clans on this continent that aren't aligned with Thrall, Blackhawk, or ourselves and while before we got here that was fine, now that we are here and gathering the clans to our banner, they are going to feel compelled to pick a side eventually.

I want us to have some more legitimacy before they start gravitating to Blackhand or, potentially worse, Thrall. Besides, as everyone points out, we are basically a warchief already and if Thrall hasn't sent anyone over the seas to deal with Blackhand I can only imagine he will be too glad leave us to our own devices so we "pretenders" can handle ourselves.

I also don't really think anyone will assume we are gunning for the glorified refugee camp across the ocean when we have an industrial powerhouse much closer to home that we could claim if we wanted to start merging Hordes.
 
Hrrm.
Part of me is wondering…
What, precisely. Do we get from calling ourself Warchief?
Like that's the expectation, what are we, with all this power and might, if not a Warchief?
And I think, I have the idea on how Grok might put it.
He fought the Dragonmaw. He displaced them. He did not Break them, he was beaten and forced to retreat. It was a measured loss, but a loss.
So then, are we Warchief? No, because if we were acting along the terms we have set, we should have joined the Dragonmaw, for they beat us in battle.
But what we are still, is Marshall of Alterac. We are still Heir to the Burning Blade, as complicated as that situation might become.
But we are not yet Chief of our Clan, much less a Warchief.
And Rend can laugh at that all he likes-we need to put our house in order.
 
So then, are we Warchief? No, because if we were acting along the terms we have set, we should have joined the Dragonmaw, for they beat us in battle.
thats not how warcheifs work warchief is techqeually the title of the leader of several clans (which we are cause we got, frostwolves, blackrock, warsong, deamonsword, and new clan) we didn't fight the dragonmaw clan for dominance or to make them follow us. we got hired by the dwarves to push the dragonmaw out of the area which we did thats all after all dragonmaw are allied to rends horde so they most likely see rend as the true warcheif if they see any cause they could jusy not reconise one or could just go I don't care which of you 3 is just figure it out already.
also for the following dragonmaw we didn't do a makagora so their was no terms of either side doing anything like with the deamonsword clan)
 
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Gregor does like to complain a lot. Grok was ok doing his own thing in Alterac and then when it came time for merc missions he complains how there's not enough in the treasury and then he complains again when he does get an infusion of much needed money.

Grok should've saw to seeing Onyxia if only to increase his own control.
 
For me, it's less about picking a fight with Thrall and more about satisfying our companions and giving us more authority to deal with other orcs. There are too many clans on this continent that aren't aligned with Thrall, Blackhawk, or ourselves and while before we got here that was fine, now that we are here and gathering the clans to our banner, they are going to feel compelled to pick a side eventually.
This is not merely a symbolic gesture, though. Declaring ourselves the Warchief of the Eastern Kingdoms by extension means declaring Rend an imposter. This shifts the smoldering conflict straight into a direct phase. I am not saying not to do it, but the moment must be carefully considered; it's not an internal matter.

I am less conscerned with Thrall and whatever waves it might make in Ogrimmar. Thrall is far away, and we intend to keep it that way.

2) we desperately need to be more proactive INSIDE Alterac, we lost most of our momentum and now we need to work around a bureaucracy that we could have made to be loyal to us, and we are stuck on the back foot. NO MORE EXCURSIONS OUTSIDE OF THE BORDER UNTIL WE FIX OUR HOUSE.
Agree with the sentiment, disagree with the conclusion. Mercenary expeditions fill the treasury and provide allies, workers and tech. We have an army eating a ton of our supplies, and we don't have it so they could sit there looking pretty and twiddling their thumbs. Perhaps we shouldn't be doing three missions in one turn for a while, but we should not turn them down completely either.

I want to see if there is still a Kul Tiras standing.
 
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The problem appears to be the same as the mobile artillery question I posed back in Alterac 11 when Stormpikes gave us their cannons. How do we keep them in the army and retain the mobility of the raiding force?
As far as keeping up on foot is concerned, Humans have the potential to be very potent long distance trekkers, though admittedly it requires years of training to be noteworthy if one didn't grow up doing it. For the priests in question, having good physical conditioning isn't necessarily out of the question, but perhaps there are ways for them to improve their stamina using the light. Chants, prayers, and benedictions echoing outward from a clerical detachment, fasting for days and appearing utterly indefatigable would at the least be very cool. There are examples of aura effects in WC3 and WoW anyway.

Just floating some ideas here, both conventional and magical.
While these are indeed good ideas, one thing I also want to demonstrate is the relatively primitive technology, both social and actual technological, among the peoples of Azeroth.

For example, the institution of paladins, and indeed of priests using battle magic is relatively new. Paladins have been around for a decade or so not, but almost all of them are former knights or other military people.

In some fantasy settings you have ranged paladins for example like in Pathfinder you've got the Divine Hunter. That isn't something that the Azerothian paladins would think of because it's just outside their range of reference, same for the DnD Eldrich Knight, that would be most unusual to the mages of Dalaran.

You see more technological development in the games, for example Death Knights themselves are also a technological development, or so is the Elemental Ascendency for shaman.

But for the moment I'd note that most of the communities are late feudal at best, and a lot of them have degraded due to the Scourging of Lordaeron for example. Stormwind is slightly more advanced with a more advanced state bureacracy, while Dathrohan is running a sort of teutonic state on a permanant crusade footing.

One aspect of this is that there's not a very well developed science of logistics. I imagine a cart, for example would probably be quite crude. Certainly though Grok is concerned about this issue.
A presence can still be kept at Alterac but as the steward has mentioned too many influx of new visitors.
Key point, according to Gregor's views and the current infrastructure of Alterac. Gregor is an able administrator and managed to get the Syndicate people on side, but he's also a conservative, he wants to preserve the previous order, he doesn't want to rock the boat, he's aiming for a small, stable Alterac which isn't doing anything special really. He doesn't mind corruption etc, and works partly by selling off some assets like mining rights to the dwarves or whatever.
1) we stop waffling so much on the Warchief question and either declare that we aren't a warchief ( something our people will dislike and that will actively hunt our efforts) or we put on the mantle. I wouldn't be opposed to continuing to act as a waechief but defacto waiting for Thrall to bow or mess up, so long as it stops occupying so much of the word count.

2) we desperately need to be more proactive INSIDE Alterac, we lost most of our momentum and now we need to work around a bureaucracy that we could have made to be loyal to us, and we are stuck on the back foot. NO MORE EXCURSIONS OUTSIDE OF THE BORDER UNTIL WE FIX OUR HOUSE.
Both fair, wanted to check though whether this is a writing issue too though. I can imagine that it might be frustrating to read the same stuff happening again and again, so wanted to check whether that was an issue with the writing, or a frustration with the voting.
C) Figuring out and or formalizing our logistics, every time it comes up it sounds like we are barely ahead of the next meal, foraging and lowkey stealing from people. We need to fix that soon or we are going to gain massive bad will and eventually run out of food.
I'd note on this specific point the same points as above, the logistics are pretty poor in a lot of places, in the Wetlands for example it's a swamp, there's not supply depots all over the place so yes you have to use hunting and foraging. This is common in the medieval period, it's only later that you start to get a better system rather than armies just confiscating food.
Alterac is becoming quite the disaster: a hodgepodge of a territory that hates us.
I wouldn't say they hate you. The nobles probably do, but the peasants would prefer the rule of Gregor and Grok than that of the Syndicate. Grok wouldn't tolerate corruption and Gregor minimises it, people aren't getting shook down anymore etc, the roads are safe, and people can actually take pride in their country rather than being international pariahs. This doesn't necessarily solve the matter of the Demonsword clan piling peasants up and burning them, nor does it resolve the disenfranchisement by existing power structures by foreign rule, but it's a complex matter.
What, precisely. Do we get from calling ourself Warchief?
Like that's the expectation, what are we, with all this power and might, if not a Warchief?
This is a very complicated matter. I can do an infopost at some point, but I would say essentially it's a thing about having a greater acknoledged authority over the clans and structures of the orcs. It would be an upgrade in terms of legality and legitimacy vs just being a war leader. Grok could the right to oversee certain rituals or processes, for example he might be able to convene a Circle of Elders which would serve a sort of parliamentary function.
He fought the Dragonmaw. He displaced them. He did not Break them, he was beaten and forced to retreat. It was a measured loss, but a loss.
So then, are we Warchief? No, because if we were acting along the terms we have set, we should have joined the Dragonmaw, for they beat us in battle.
thats not how warcheifs work warchief is techqeually the title of the leader of several clans (which we are cause we got, frostwolves, blackrock, warsong, deamonsword, and new clan) we didn't fight the dragonmaw clan for dominance or to make them follow us. we got hired by the dwarves to push the dragonmaw out of the area which we did thats all after all dragonmaw are allied to rends horde so they most likely see rend as the true warcheif if they see any cause they could jusy not reconise one or could just go I don't care which of you 3 is just figure it out already.
also for the following dragonmaw we didn't do a makagora so their was no terms of either side doing anything like with the deamonsword clan)
Indeed this isn't necesarily what happened. Grok proposed Mak'gora, Angerfang refused because he knew he'd lose. Therefore Mak'gora isn't in play and there's no transfer of power. Also, Grok did indeed win, both tactically and strategically. It wasn't as great a victory as he might have wanted, but its still a victory. He went there to displace the Dragonmaw from that area, he acheived that. Even in the second battle at Dun Algaz where he was forced to retreat, he still managed to push the Dragonmaw out of their stronghold through negociation, so he still acheived what he was trying to do.
This is not merely a symbolic gesture, though. Declaring ourselves the Warchief of the Eastern Kingdoms by extension means declaring Rend an imposter. This shifts the smoldering conflict straight into a direct phase. I am not saying not to do it, but the moment must be carefully considered; it's not an internal matter.
Indeed, but the motivations Grok has currently are mostly internal. He's anticipating issues with the administration and legitimacy, those are internal issues. He's not an especially ambitious guy, he's not schemeing to become warchief etc.

You are right however to say that the results aren't internal, no, they would be intensely external because of the way they'll develop. Thrall would indeed be forced to act against you to preserve his own legitimacy.

In some ways, declaring the Eastern Horde can be a good thing, but in other ways its also is the worst of both worlds potentially.
 
Yeah…
Eastern Horde effectively means we have to fight Rend AND we're subservient to Thrall's Exile order.
I could see it being Very Unpopular with the Burning Blade back home as well:
Now instead of Neru getting to needle Thrall about his successor and present Grok as a candidate that would force Thrall to give up power…
Grok would become effectively Under Thrall and a potential continuation of his policies, potentially to an unpleasant degree even for the Burning Blade who are unbeknownst to them serving as cover for the Leigon's Burning Blade. After all, how long has it been since Grok got their neck of Kalimdor split apart and broken by a Greater Earth Elemental? How much can he know their ways with how much interference Neru was running while he even was there?
How precisely that works out? I'm not sure of the specifics. But I think I like the result-Azeroth becomes more stable with Rend and his backers losing another force, potentially, The Burning Blade probably does scism, likely with that warlock guy heading the split.
 
Both fair, wanted to check though whether this is a writing issue too though. I can imagine that it might be frustrating to read the same stuff happening again and again, so wanted to check whether that was an issue with the writing, or a frustration with the voting.
There is a little more of column A than there is column B, to be honest. I think I'm largely going to be fine with whatever the thread decides, but lately it seems like all the narration has been consistent harping on it to the point that it's gotten samey when I read it.

If it's required by the narrative right now then obviously there's nothing to be done but make a decision or deal with the constant reminders that some sort of a decision has to be made soon, so don't worry too much about it.
 
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