Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
I mean is not like the light would not try, from what i understand by nature it opposes the void.
Having the Black dragon boss aspect in some form of debt would probably give q lot of legitimacy to wherever form of ruling body Gork is setting up for the Orcs and Ogres in aliance territory.
Well yes, purifying Neltharion would give Grok more prestige, but that's peanuts compared to the world-shaking implications of pulling it off.
He was originally the defender and warrior of the Dragon Aspects, kinda like Sargeras was the warrior Titan for his people. If Neltharion regains his sanity, that's a huge win for Azeroth. So many problems would be resolved or greatly lessened if he was no longer crazy and doing his damn job.
MasterDrakus
DEUS SOL
- Location
- Minas Gerais, Brazil
Neltharion is a sad history tbh, he's one of those characters who were forced into evil, he does what he does because of others and not his own will. Can you truly call him evil or just a broken slave?
- Location
- barking
he tried to hold the world alone on his shoulders, never opened up to his friends/siblings (cause they did see each other that way) about the whipsers in his head and in a moment of weakness dammed himself by accepting their help and his children and the blues and reds (dragon)paid the price the most
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
In short, Deathwing was put in charge of the earth for some reason, presumably to defeat the influences of the Old Gods who are imprisoned in the earth anyway. This didn't work though as the Old Gods just corrupted Deathwing and he tried to destroy the other coloured dragons. He somewhat succeeded in this, but primarily it also devastated the Black Dragonflight. The Blacks have spent the next 10000 years slinking about trying to do various things to strengthen themselves in various ways. As such, Kalaran and Lady Prestor are both Black agents who are attempting through various means to strengthen their flight.
That's a popular reading sure, but not necessarily caonical I think. It's thematically persuasive, but I also find it problematic to rob the whole Black flight of their agency. Do we just say that they're all corrupt by void energy and are all a bit hive mind. We get Sinithra trying to do her own thing but actually largely being controlled by Deathwing still.
Meh, a weak main villain is problematic, but I think weaker writing is worse. For example, BfA is a mess. Even BC is problematic given that it's such a massive departure in writing. At least in Cata we see Deathwing's various efforts. He's trying. In WoD comparably I think you have a whole load of weak writing, which perhaps isn't as bad as Deathwing being a somewhat weak villain. Meh, it's complicated.
While in theory this may indeed be possible, I think narratively it would be extremely difficult to do, with perhaps dubious returns. For example, it took a powerful force of priests, mages and shaman to imprison and purify Grommash from the Fel. In the first case you'd have to somehow capture him without him retreating to Deepholm. Secondly, you'd have to block the Old Gods from flooding him with corruption as they do in the Cata raid, and subsequently you'd have to somehow heal him from his corruption, eg the elementium plates he has rivetted onto his body, and then you'd have to utilise his power after at least 10000 years of void corruption.
In theory it might work, but it would be exceptionally difficult, and I think characters in the world would accept that and not even try to stop it.
Compare the Aspects vs Malygos. They fought him without him being corrupted, and they still didn't try to somehow fix him, they just acknoledtged that they ahd to join the battle and kill him
- Location
- barking
thats an understatment as much as I liked the zandalar part of it (and the allied races), making the expansion oh its another faction war but oh no a old god broke out better do that quickly and then setting up very badly the jailor it tried to be 3 things at once
@FractiousDay while it hasn't been shown as much but how much has the newcomers to the warband taken to Grok's leadership? I know Targorr got in after getting penal drafted. Talked a bit too but he hasn't shown much of his reaction to a second chance at something better than being a prisoner. He like many of them have doubts even as it offered a second lease at life right until the string of victories after Naxxramas and then the Makgora made Grok a certified leader to follow.
He gets access to valuable ore he'll need to outfit his warband.
There's also the fact of Lordaeron being a plagueland which can mean any salvaged industrial equipment namely the blacksmith or forge equipment can be shipped into Alterac to get the war effort going?
Looking at what the Demonsword clan represents maybe they can upgraded into specialists units especially of the poleaxe variety.
Orcs love their axes. Now they can have an axe but longer to chop down the toughest of infantry or even cavalry or monsters with ease especially if they're armored up.
You know that would be what makes Grok's position there much more valuable.
He gets access to valuable ore he'll need to outfit his warband.
There's also the fact of Lordaeron being a plagueland which can mean any salvaged industrial equipment namely the blacksmith or forge equipment can be shipped into Alterac to get the war effort going?
Looking at what the Demonsword clan represents maybe they can upgraded into specialists units especially of the poleaxe variety.
Orcs love their axes. Now they can have an axe but longer to chop down the toughest of infantry or even cavalry or monsters with ease especially if they're armored up.
Last edited:
- Location
- barking
orcs love anything they can kill with (after all doomhammer had his hammer, blackhand had his larva hammer in wod, kargath has his blade fists)
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Don't change the most widely used weapon on the Horde is the Axe, with Ogres favoring the Ogre club.
I could see Giant blades become an thing on Gork's burning blade if we get the logistical pipeline to produce them in mass.
Also some oversized human weapons like the mace and Flail (and of course axes), anything that can take aplication of brutish strength to go with the "orc shields" that Gork came up with.
In the end an crude axe is relatively easy and cheap to make and take well to the average orc warrior preference.
I could see Giant blades become an thing on Gork's burning blade if we get the logistical pipeline to produce them in mass.
Also some oversized human weapons like the mace and Flail (and of course axes), anything that can take aplication of brutish strength to go with the "orc shields" that Gork came up with.
In the end an crude axe is relatively easy and cheap to make and take well to the average orc warrior preference.
- Location
- barking
yeah orcs can use axes (and maces/hammers) better with their strength
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Pole weapons are not the best for orcs, too much power to about the same control an human have over their strength if not poorer. It is likely to snap, keep it short or do not use wood.
One thing to keep in mind is that Orcs are not humans.
So make it a pole axe for for an orc.
That's all there is to equipment fit for humans is not suitable for orcs until resized.
- Location
- barking
we are atm just surving of stuff the scarlets don't need for their light infranty (cause saidan mentioned the sheer individual power and remember our orcs at anderhole were using like double armour and just doors they picked up as shields)
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
There's also the fact that orcs can wear plate armor as if it was ight armor (whit it being more prolific than the real world) wich would allow some quite close combat strategies that are more akin to fantasy blitzkrieg than anything that an infantry would have any right doing.
Wood have so much material strength there's so much resizing can do, unless you get magical fantasy wood that it, but the cost may as well make you want to have steel with some heavier blade
Last edited:
Not really a big deal with the background handling the logistics especially once Grok establishes his power base in Alterac to handle the logistics.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
That may be fair enough.
It gives me an idea trough, like if we want to do this army building chapter, we introduced an army status mechanic, basically it gives some very basic skills to keep tracking, wellbeing, infrastructure, military competency and phisical conditioning.
Wellbeing is quality of life, and better fed and better sheltered member of the polity the better is for them to grow.
Infrastructure is how good is your installations, logistical chains, an anything that works to kee the orcs fed.
Military competency is how good your unit is at war, from weapons using to tactical acumen.
Phisical conditioning is phisicallity, run faster for longer with more weight, swing an heavy weapon for longer, it really impact attrition.
Each type of unit have these atributes on a different spread so gork could know what he could improve, trough the fine tuning of it al is more narrative or course.
We had a lot of issues on the matter of equipment when first starting out in the scarlet crusade especially in getting that double armor. Presumably such issues were addressed once Anderhol got taken putting Grok's warband high on the requisition list and there hasn't been that kind of choice since then.
There is plenty to work with there.
The warband includes many races that will need to be further incorporated or trained for more specialisations.
Since the Alterac vote is already the winner, there's definitely going to be more Alteraci humans to be involved possibly as the auxillary.
Though since the dwarves of the stormpikes are also setting up shop in Alterac there can be some inclusion as part of their obligations towards the alliance within reason.
Not sure about the Alteraci trolls. Maybe it's something Grok and Vok'fon can work out since Vok'fon joined the warband. He may not be as strong as Grok but his participation means he represents the interests of the trolls while Grok represents the orcs.
His sworn brother meanwhile can represent the ogres.
Last edited:
- Location
- barking
slight problem with that his a jungle trolls those are different from the ice trolls who are even for trolls extremely hostile to outsiders. Also we need to get to see if we can get to them before they go of to northrend and kill their loa to gain power but not sure a jungle troll will help but might as well try
He has some business to try in response to this:
- Location
- United Kingdom
One thing that occours to me but I suppose I've not exposited is that Orcs must probably have a more flexible system of authority than other places. The Mak'gora means that clans can break apart and form quite quickly, so that sort of requires a fairly willing populace to not get a lot of back stabbing and factionism. In the case of Grok's orcs, I think generally they'll be pretty chill. They're attatched to a successful and prestigious chieftan, most of them don't have many other options, and Grok is extremely well respected for various reasons as a blademaster, shaman and famous victor.
Also, on weapons: I don't want to get too specific about you micromanaging the types of weapons people might want. IRL people tend toward a more brutal style of fighting, even when they have weapons not suited to it, for example, if you give someone a sword they'll try and hack away at someone as if they have a club, rather than trying to do a more deadly stab for example. I think given the Orcs are known for their semi-bestial nature they'd also be somewhat aware of the utility of a weapon you can indeed just smash away at an enemy with.
We must also consider that the Orcs are technologically primitive and energy-poor. They don't have lots of farming and so on, the few of them that've recently made some advancements will be constrained by a lack of resources.
The Blackrock are really the only ones who practice extensive metallurgy, and with the exception of the Burning Blade I think they'd find it difficult to actually forge things like swords given you need a good quality of steel etc to do so. Some of this will be solvable by magic, but not all.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
There's some that can be solved by technology trade too, sure dwarves will not explain how their special stuff work, but steel? The main botleneck in making steel on big quantities is an furnace that is hot enough.
This also comes to having an place to settle that is not a desert and neighbors that are somewhat positive towards you.
This also comes to having an place to settle that is not a desert and neighbors that are somewhat positive towards you.