Theory: Shapechanging is the natural and proper way to create Fasts. However, there is a method for an Odr cultivator to shape change themselves specifically for Fasts without relying on a specialist that has been lost to time and the Enemy.
Theory: Shapechanging is the natural and proper way to create Fasts. However, there is a method for an Odr cultivator to shape change themselves specifically for Fasts without relying on a specialist that has been lost to time and the Enemy.
Er...no. Because it hasn't been lost. You can do that with shapeshifting (the thing you automatically get at Hamr 7) right now. Shapecrafting is just easier for most berserkers because they need to be shapecrafted into being berserkers in the first place.
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Updated the Odr Mechanics post with the basics on what we know of Frenzy.
So, complete speculation time!
It seems like Odr Infusion into Hamr and Fylgja must do something to parallel how Hugr grants Frenzy (all three also increase derived stats, but that's even across the three of them), but we haven't seen what yet. Since Hugr's benefit effectively only kicks in at Hamr 7 in some ways, maybe the other Infusion bonuses are similar in only kicking in when another stat hits 7+?
Like, Fylgja Infusion granting bonuses to Alloying and Hamr Infusion jacking up the Fylgja's evolution at Fylgja 7+ both actually make a lot of sense to me upon reflection.
Shapecrafting is the Bow, and Shapeshifting is the Arrow.
So, Shapecrafting is a delivery mechanism, but Shapeshifting is what 'Does the Thing'
It seems like creating Berserks is probably the actual Trap in Shapecrafting--since ordinary Norse don't have access to Odr, so it probably creates Frenzy through some other mechanism, one that The Enemy can subvert if they have to.
But then I start to wonder. "There's a finite number of Shapeshifts possible, right? You get one per rank of Hamr?" But then I go and think. "Wait, did IF actually say that or are we assuming it?"
Just my post-nap thonks. The question to me is that how does a Shapecrafter impose Shapeshifts if your Body isn't malleable enough to do so? And what's the price you pay for that? If someone's Capacity for Shapeshifts though is equal to their Hamr score, while the potency and ability to Shapeshift yourself is unlocked at Hamr 7 rather than only starts building at that point. Well, that's more plausible. The Shapecrafter is just guiding your Body into a shape it could take if it knew how, which falls to the wayside once you gain enough control over your Body to do it yourself.
It's not impossible the Shapecrafters create Berserks by opening the Gate and pulling odr from the subject into their mind and body, I suppose. Neither they nor the subject may really understand what they're doing in the greater context.
It's not impossible the Shapecrafters create Berserks by opening the Gate and pulling odr from the subject into their mind and body, I suppose. Neither they nor the subject may really understand what they're doing in the greater context.
I suspect this isn't what they're doing...but now I really want to watch a shapecrafter make a berserk and see what actually happens there. Honestly, I really want to learn shapecrafting full stop, but that's harder given that the closest one is in Jurgby...we can arrange to learn seidr a lot more easily (once Horra is dead), but I doubt the seeress actually knows shapecrafting.
That's probably very, very much tightly controlled Secrets.
But yeah, the more I think about it, the more sound it seems. Hamr 7 unlocking the ability to Shapeshift yourself, but you always have the latent potential to Shapeshift, and Shapecrafters can help you do that in advance (And in some cases, achieve Bullshit beyond your own skill--remember that the higher Attribute ranks are increasingly difficult to reach! )
In light of that, the benefits of Investing Odr into Hamr might be that your Body can tolerate greater levels of Shapeshifting, and that it's a point based system rather than 'Slot' based. Or at least, I hope that's the case. Either way, even if the power of your Shapeshifts is limited by how high your base rating is, having more points to invest is still a big deal, and brings Hamr in line with Hugr in terms of Bullshit it can pull off, especially when infused with Odr.
My personal SWAG is that it's right there in the name. It's about altering the shape. The shapeshifter has enough control over their own body to basically tell their body to alter itself in significant ways and have their body shrug and roll with it. The shapecrafter does effectively the same thing by tearing the body open and reshaping it by surgery and Seidr. They're both achieving the same end - a reshaping of the body - but one is using a means that's inherent to the body, and fairly natural/healthy, and the other is... not.
Another thought: Steelfathers are inherently shapecrafted. It's not possible to shapeshift into steel, because you'll poison yourself horribly in the process and the steel will do horrible things to you. A shapecrafter, though, can take you out of the loop and reforge you while remaining untouched themseves. It is a pathway to abilities some might consider to be unnatural.
So... yeah. My take onshapecrafters....
- Partially, they're like orthstirr, in that they're an aftermarket cheat that got plugged on the side in order to let the vikings still manage to Do Things after their true cultivation path turned into a hellscape of horrible traps.
- They probably have some sort of ugly trade where you get power now but it cripples long-term potential in various ways... except that it's long-term potential that most folks have no chance of ever using anyway. Still, I'd bet that you get some ugly "stitches tearing open" situations in there somewhere.
- It makes it possible to do things that are generally a really bad idea.
So... The Enemy likes it because it clearly defines the top of the local hill... and it's a short, broken hill. That leads to exactly the kind of cultural stagnation that the Enemy wants... and also lets them slip in poisonous stuff like the Steelfathers.
That's probably very, very much tightly controlled Secrets.
But yeah, the more I think about it, the more sound it seems. Hamr 7 unlocking the ability to Shapeshift yourself, but you always have the latent potential to Shapeshift, and Shapecrafters can help you do that in advance (And in some cases, achieve Bullshit beyond your own skill--remember that the higher Attribute ranks are increasingly difficult to reach! )
In light of that, the benefits of Investing Odr into Hamr might be that your Body can tolerate greater levels of Shapeshifting, and that it's a point based system rather than 'Slot' based. Or at least, I hope that's the case. Either way, even if the power of your Shapeshifts is limited by how high your base rating is, having more points to invest is still a big deal, and brings Hamr in line with Hugr in terms of Bullshit it can pull off, especially when infused with Odr.
This was actually my first thought...but that seems weirdly asymmetrical with Hugr Infusion doing something entirely orthogonal to most Hugr uses (a combat buff) that effectively requires Hamr 7 to use properly barring outside intervention. That's why I hypothesized that Hamr Infusion does something to buff the Fylgja at Fylgja 7+ and Fylgja Infusion does something to help alloying at Hugr 7+...that has symmetry.
Shapeshifting is effectively permanent, as people walk around with it on 24/7. It may technically require some sort of maintenance, but not anything difficult.
Probably doing it 'In the Fences', that seems safer in general when playing around with Cultivation things. But I could be wrong, that's just my gut impulse there.
For fuck's sake we better not have stumbled into another landmine...
Probably doing it 'In the Fences', that seems safer in general when playing around with Cultivation things. But I could be wrong, that's just my gut impulse there.
For fuck's sake we better not have stumbled into another landmine...
Armor first, probably. We'd probably take safety precautions for the armor forging, too (mostly, wearing a gambeson and using Reinforce Shield before starting...just in case something explodes).
Our body is likely as safe as it can be while scouting...probably back home under guard (Horra's place is less than a day's walk at most, so an owl should be able to fly there pretty quick). I dunno if time of day is the right way to think about it...we'd be doing this on and off for at least a few days likely at different times to try and catch people being used as couriers (we're basically aiming to do a bit of a stakeout). Maybe the same time of day as last time on the basis that seemed to be a busy time of day?
This was actually my first thought...but that seems weirdly asymmetrical with Hugr Infusion doing something entirely orthogonal to most Hugr uses (a combat buff) that effectively requires Hamr 7 to use properly barring outside intervention. That's why I hypothesized that Hamr Infusion does something to buff the Fylgja at Fylgja 7+ and Fylgja Infusion does something to help alloying at Hugr 7+...that has symmetry.
Very possible, but it being a combat buff is actually not my main point...even if it applies to other stuff, it still requires Hamr 7+ to work right, so the advantages of Hamr Infusion and Fylgja Infusion only kicking in when other stats hit 7+ is the most important part of the symmetry I'm talking about.
Very possible, but it being a combat buff is actually not my main point...even if it applies to other stuff, it still requires Hamr 7+ to work right, so the advantages of Hamr Infusion and Fylgja Infusion only kicking in when other stats hit 7+ is the most important part of the symmetry I'm talking about.
I do think the fact our Frenzy is as weak as it can be is contributing to how Halla is mostly able to handle it though. We absolutely don't want to make it any stronger before we can control it.
I do think the fact our Frenzy is as weak as it can be is contributing to how Halla is mostly able to handle it though. We absolutely don't want to make it any stronger before we can control it.
Sounds very likely that higher Score -> more issues.
Though it is also possible that at, for example, Hugr infusion level 3 Halla would learn to control it. The big issue: No way to figure that out without either getting a different way to deal with it or playing hopscotch in a minefield.
I do think the fact our Frenzy is as weak as it can be is contributing to how Halla is mostly able to handle it though. We absolutely don't want to make it any stronger before we can control it.
So... yeah. My take onshapecrafters....
- Partially, they're like orthstirr, in that they're an aftermarket cheat that got plugged on the side in order to let the vikings still manage to Do Things after their true cultivation path turned into a hellscape of horrible traps.
- They probably have some sort of ugly trade where you get power now but it cripples long-term potential in various ways... except that it's long-term potential that most folks have no chance of ever using anyway. Still, I'd bet that you get some ugly "stitches tearing open" situations in there somewhere.
- It makes it possible to do things that are generally a really bad idea.
So... The Enemy likes it because it clearly defines the top of the local hill... and it's a short, broken hill. That leads to exactly the kind of cultural stagnation that the Enemy wants... and also lets them slip in poisonous stuff like the Steelfathers.
This I disagree with. Orthstirr is not an aftermarket add-on, I don't think, and I don't think that shapecrafting is entirely bad. My own take is that shapecrafters fill the same role here as alchemists in traditional Xianxia. They can absolutely mess you up if you just take their products without considering the implications or try and rush your cultivation with them by taking shortcuts, but there are also legitimate uses that are just fine.
The trick would be figuring out which are which given the opacity of information we currently possess.
On the topic of dealing with Frenzy IF offered us a choice from 3 categories, we chose fasts (made by shapeshifting or shapecrafting), but soulscape was also an option.
On the topic of dealing with Frenzy IF offered us a choice from 3 categories, we chose fasts (made by shapeshifting or shapecrafting), but soulscape was also an option.
That's not precisely correct. We were discussing a lot of stuff, including soulscapes, shapecrafting, and fasts and were told we could get a hint on one of them. Nowhere was the hint said to be specifically about Frenzy and that was not the only thing under discussion at all.
[X] Plan Making Our First Armor
-[X] (Shopping) Ask Abjorn to buy something for you
--[X] Sell 300 oz. of Bog Iron
--[X] Buy 200 oz. of Forged Iron, an extra Good Forged Iron Sax, and a Good Forged Iron Helm
-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something
--[X] Forged Iron Mail (+7 Successes from Tools/Workshop)
--[X] Attempt to put **3 Odr** into it as you forge it and see what happens
-[X] Horrby, Horra's Farm
--[X] Rather than visiting normally, you instead stealthily approach and try to scout it out.
--[X] Again, using Dressed in Rags and going with our fylgja.
--[X] Attempt to follow any visitors and couriers, especially the small form shrouded in shadows if it shows up, see if we can figure out where they're coming from and their routes...ideally to set up an ambush of some sort. Anything we overhear is also great, obviously.
-[X] (Rolled)
--[X] Train Kindle-Spinner 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Ember-Winged Cloak 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Campfire 2d6 (1d6) (+1 Success from Born of Fire)
--[X] Train Hamr itself 13d6
-[X] (Research)
--[X] Attempt to determine the properties of sealwood sap in general, with a particular focus on how to dissolve it, including using the oil that comes from the same plant 1d6
--[X] Try weaving our virthing and saemd together again 1d6
--[X] Do more bible reading with Jerasmus 1d6
-[X] (Blackhand's Training) Try to develop old/train new hugareida tricks
--[X] Train Halting Vortex 1d6 x
--[X] Train Mire Ward 1d6 x
-[X] (Training) Tricks
--[X] Talk more to Sten about how to make an atgeir
--[X] Train Goal-Tell 1d6 X
--[X] Train Cool-Off 1d6 X
--[X] Train Skewer-Flick 1d6 x
--[X] Train Chuck 1d6 X
--[X] Train 'Rare Weapon' Weaponcraft Skill-Trick 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten) x
-[X] (Training) Hamr (58 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 1d6 x
-[X] (Training) Hugr (23 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Hugr itself 1d6 x
--[X] Train Artcraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten) x
--[X] Train Housecraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten) x
--[X] Train Weaponcraft 1d6 (+1 Success from Sten) x
-[X] (Training) Fylgja (7 success to rank up)
--[X] Train Fylgja Itself 1d6 x
-[X] (Orthstirr Usage)
--[X] 3 Orthstirr to Hamr
---[X] 3 Chop, 4 Defend, 4 Dodge, 4 Glima, 3 Bash, 3 Pierce, 3 Throw, 3 Cut, 3 Farmwork, 3 Labor, 3 Overland (36 total)
--[X] 5 Orthstirr to Hugr
---[X] 4 Artcraft, 5 Armorcraft, 3 Barb-Tongue, 4 Composure, 5 Housecraft, 3 Management, 4 Scouting, 4 Silver-Tongue, 3 Strategy, 3 Tactics, 5 Weaponcraft, 4 Wordplay, 5 Wildcraft (52 total)
--[X] **4 Odr** and 1 Orthstirr to Fylgja
---[X] 3 Command
--[X] 1 First Impression
--[X] 224 free for tricks
-[X] (Fylgja Capacity)
--[X] Add Sway, Halting Vortex, Kindle Spinner, and Ember-Wing Cloak
--[X] Remove Boulder and Shield
Sealwood study
Well... the sap of the sealwood tree is, as expected, extremely sticky. So sticky, in fact, that your fingers are still stuck together after over half-an-hour of tugging.
Sighing, you draw your work knife and set to carving the skin off.
What wasn't expected, though, is that the wood itself seems to almost want to stick to each other. It reminds you a bit of some bits of weird metal a travelling salesman had tried to sell Steinarr when you were little. Very odd.
Unfortunately, though, you don't find any oil to work with. The branches have those waxy leaves and the wax seems to have some kind of repelling effect on the sap, but, with your hands like they are now, you're not super interested in screwing around with the sticky tree until you get your fingers unstuck.
0~0~0 Weaving Virthing and Saemd
Sitting with your legs crossed and your hands on your knees, you close your eyes as you stoke your Aspects.
Like before, your virthing and saemd work as one to weave a thread of power. But, unlike the previous times you've tried this...
Your soul hums with life yet unkindled. An incomplete trifecta.
But that is enough for the weaving to work.
As you weave and work your soul inside and out, the virthing-saemd construct seems to gain pockets of some kind. It feels like you can put things inside those pockets, but, before you get the chance to try anything, the construct unravels before your eyes.
There's something there in that word, unravels, that tickles at the back of your mind. How does one stop something from unraveling?
There's something that stinks of cost, buried deep inside that thought. While it doesn't feel like a warning per se, it could easily be The Enemy trying to trick you into something unfortunate.
0~0~0 Bible Study
"And so, Jesus sent his Apostles out to spread word of his glory to the world."
Jerasmus says as he finishes up the part about that Jesus fellow.
As he does, you can't help but feel like you've learned something about Christianity.
Well, at the very least, it's definitely a good idea to write things down!
(Bible Study is now complete)
(New Journal Entry: How to Write)
0~0~0 Slice of Life
Everyday life with a pack of children as rambunctious as your own is a constant test of patience. Their bodies and minds are developing quicker than expected, which reminds you and Abjorn of yourselves.
While you stifle yawns and rub at bleary eyes — a certain pair of rambunctious children having kept you up all night — Asgeirr bares his teeth and growls as he and his sister wrestle over a bear toy. Well, 'wrestling' is a strong word. It's more that they're flailing around in a meager attempt to fight.
While his siblings devolve into a pile of flailing limbs and wordless roars, Sigurdr sits beside a wall — his gray eyes turned towards the sliver of sky visible from the window. Sigurdr is quiet and contemplative, the kind of child that Asveig would have loved to have as a grandson.
He's also the first of your children to speak — which isn't all that surprising given that Asgeirr and Eyvor seem more interested in making animal noises than human ones — so when he points at the window and says the words 'mama, bird!', it's not all that much of a surprise.
What is a surprise, though, is the giant, fuck-off bird sticking its head through the window. Easily four, five feet in height, it casually casts its angry-visage about the space as a strange sense of silent tension falls across your home.
Abjorn starts slowly reaching for his sword as you desperately wish you had learned Recall when you had the chance — as Sagaseeker is hanging on the wall on the far side of the room. Your hand falls to Ashen Kiss hanging from your belt — it'll have to do for now.
Sigurdr starts to laugh and clap, successfully diffusing the tension. Your eyes fall to the white bird's feathers and your brows rise to the top of your head as you recognize that singe. That's... that's the same kind of pattern as on your virthing!
The fylgja bobs its head once before drawing away from the room, its presence vanishing moments later.
You blink, as does Abjorn. Asgeirr and Eyvor, though, didn't stop fighting for even a moment as the too-big bird made its appearance.
"That..." you trail off as Sigurdr promptly goes to sleep, right then and there, "was a fylgja."
"Hostile?" Abjorn makes his way to the door, ready to hold it shut with his body if needs be.
"Sigurdr's, I think."
That sets Abjorn's brows to rising. "Huh."
Huh indeed.
0~0~0 Forging Mail+Abjorn Shopping (Hugr (Armorcraft): 6x2, 5x2, 4x3, 3x4, 1x1/Odr3= 6x2, 5x2, 4x3, 3x4) 15+2(Leftover Odr)+7=24 Successes
Up and down and up and down, your hammer rings with a brilliant red glow as your eyes fill with steel and blazing rings of fire.
Up and down and up and down, you work the metal into interlocking rings of Forged Iron as odr works its way deeper and deeper into the white-hot material.
From sunup to sundown, you work on your mail.
From sunup to sundown, odr sinks into your mail.
A spirit wakes up as you dunk it into the water.
Pulling it free from the confines of liquid, you're left with a shirt of mail — a Superior shirt of Forged Iron.
Not only that, though, the shirt has a sort of... almost song to it that resonates strongly with your memories of Sagaseeker.
A reservoir of orthstirr floats within the interlocking links of chain, a reserve you can draw upon at will.
(+1 Superior Forged Iron Mail Shirt added to inventory!)
(-250 Forged Iron. Unfortunately, Abjorn was not able to acquire the Good Forged Iron Sax and the Good Forged Iron helmet, as metal has gotten prohibitively expensive with the dwarves at war. It's only thanks to your good standing with the Smith that he was even willing to sell Abjorn the Forged Iron at all.)
0~0~0 Scouting Horra (Attempt #1: 6x4, 5x2, 4x2, 3x1, 2x2) 13 Successes
You hadn't thought you'd be seeing much of anything as you set up shop for the first day of watching, but this is one of those things that you're happy to be wrong about.
Not two minutes after you settled down, a cart started rolling its way from the compound. Five men in total, all well armed and armored as they make their way North. One of them seems a bit twitchy and jumpy, like they're not quite familiar with their own body.
It looks to you like Horra's heard about his Eastern friends' demise and has taken precautions with guarding future shipments.
How do you wish to take advantage of this situation, if at all?
[ ] Write in
(If the write in is too overwhelming, I can give some basic choices.)
0~0~0
AN: This is gonna be a short vote, but that's not a guarantee of a second update for today.
I'm sorry for spooking you earlier, but there was a chance for the Enemy to make a move if the stars were right.
There's something that stinks of cost, buried deep inside that thought. While it doesn't feel like a warning per se, it could easily be The Enemy trying to trick you into something unfortunate.
Though this suggests that might have permanent consequences? Not necessarily bad ones.
What wasn't expected, though, is that the wood itself seems to almost want to stick to each other. It reminds you a bit of some bits of weird metal a travelling salesman had tried to sell Steinarr when you were little. Very odd.
