- Location
- Many Places
While I do agree with all of that I think the solution is to acquire a piece of the weapon and use that as our Steelfather shiv
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
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- He/His/etc
Ultimately you don't have to kill a steelfather if you can imprison them hard enough. Lure them into the depths of a dwarven mine and collapse it on them, bound with unbreakable chains at the botton of the ocean, etc.
- Location
- Many Places
Trapping a Steelfather for forever is much harder than killing them once
We can also make a solemn and truthful vow that we are not intending to use Steel for ourselves, or wanting secretly to make Steel weapons or armour. We just want to learn how to destroy or otherwise defeat it. He might think this is impossible, but at the end of the day, if Halla tries to and doesn't succeed, there's no risk, right?
Sten probably has a chunk of it lying around somewhere, I'm willing to bet.
That's possibly true, but I'd like to at least investigate other options - spend at least a few research actions over a few turns, which is hardly breaking the bank for something so important- seeing if there's any inroads to learning ourselves, before we turn to external aids.
That's potentially one option to consider. Sealing them in a moment of Stopped Time forever, perhaps?
Feels strangely appropriate. If Steelfathers want to live forever, after all, then perhaps it's only fitting that we will defeat them by making sure that they do.
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- He/Him
I'm a bit concerned about nobody voting. Is there a substantive issue with the plan that everyone has and nobody is mentioning?
IF noted on Discord that a gatehouse would've done very little even if we knew how to build one. That seems to be an indication we're barking up the wrong tree there.
I'm on board with trying to figure this out in theory, but I'm a lot less certain that talking to Sten will help with this. We can give it a shot at some point, though. I'm not convinced it's a 'we absolutely must this turn' kinda thing, though. Like, the earliest we can likely do anything about it other than putter around in our workshop (which I'm just about certain would not be sufficient) is the Gotland Trip, which is several turns off. I'm down to have this talk either on that trip or before it occurs, though.
We don't know for a fact that this doesn't count as Disclosure, we thus want a version of the book that just doesn't contain those secrets to be safe. We may well try the 'concealed in poetry' thing, sure, but it'd be as one of our 'attempts to avoid Disclosure once we're ready to Disclose just to see if they work' things.
No we hadn't? We have no idea what actually triggers it as a Style or where the Style comes from. It's probably breath-based, but that doesn't actually seem super helpful in figuring it out.
If it's the Hading Style the Heart of the Hading is probably what does this, but we want to delay that until Blackhand is back for what I think are pretty good reasons. We have another avenue or two to try, but they're iffier. If you have a specific experiment you think would do this and a specific other thing to drop for it, I'm listening, but I'm a bit skeptical it's more urgent than the current list of things.
IF noted on Discord that a gatehouse would've done very little even if we knew how to build one. That seems to be an indication we're barking up the wrong tree there.
I'm on board with trying to figure this out in theory, but I'm a lot less certain that talking to Sten will help with this. We can give it a shot at some point, though. I'm not convinced it's a 'we absolutely must this turn' kinda thing, though. Like, the earliest we can likely do anything about it other than putter around in our workshop (which I'm just about certain would not be sufficient) is the Gotland Trip, which is several turns off. I'm down to have this talk either on that trip or before it occurs, though.
We don't know for a fact that this doesn't count as Disclosure, we thus want a version of the book that just doesn't contain those secrets to be safe. We may well try the 'concealed in poetry' thing, sure, but it'd be as one of our 'attempts to avoid Disclosure once we're ready to Disclose just to see if they work' things.
No we hadn't? We have no idea what actually triggers it as a Style or where the Style comes from. It's probably breath-based, but that doesn't actually seem super helpful in figuring it out.
If it's the Hading Style the Heart of the Hading is probably what does this, but we want to delay that until Blackhand is back for what I think are pretty good reasons. We have another avenue or two to try, but they're iffier. If you have a specific experiment you think would do this and a specific other thing to drop for it, I'm listening, but I'm a bit skeptical it's more urgent than the current list of things.
- Location
- Space between realms
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- He
If we get desperate we could see if Eitr works. Its probably a bad idea and connected to the enemy. Still, if we have nothing else (or are too weak to try for the Weapon) we have that option.
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
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- They/Them
[X]DeadmanwalkingXI
Hmmm, fair enough, I'll take that action out of my plan in that case.
Well, personally I am extremely confident that I've got it cracked.
The indication was actually very clear when we were doing our last research action that it was breath based, and we were quite close to figure it out by focussing on rationing our breath. We were turning it into a "stutter" which sped us up rather than a full on Stopped Time by the end. The obvious correlate is that if we continued this, we would uncover the parent Style, which is about using breath to enhance the user's effective speed and reactions via time manipulation. It is quite unlikely to be the Hading Style in my opinion.
However, I'd be quite happy if you disagree here - it means there will be a more meaningful difference between our plans when I finish editting in a few minutes.
- Location
- Space between realms
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- He
[X] Plan Books, Books, Books
I hadn't seen there was a plan yet. Oops.
- Location
- Many Places
That feels like it ends with a King Piccolo situation
Weren't we told that they would need to ingest it for that to even work?
Hmm... maybe we could use the rule nanding thing to make it work on skin contact?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Asking Sten to teach us how to make Steel will torpedo our relationship with him. He has already refused to teach the idea to us. He was already upset about forging Avow to begin with. My opinion is that the methods attempting to destroy Steel are extremely desperate and will not lead anywhere good. We are not even on the relevant powerlevel to threaten a Steelfather even if we had such a method.
It is also an extreme sidetrack from actually interesting and productive things we can be doing.
It is also an extreme sidetrack from actually interesting and productive things we can be doing.
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Personally, I feel like it's probably a bit more complicated than that. Like, I'm not sure we can get the Style without knowing a name for it and how we qualified for it in the first place. That said, if you think you've got it, you may well be correct. What Research would you drop for it? We only have 6 Research dice at most, after all.
This is definitely a concern. I think swearing an Oath to never create Steel in any useful form, or possibly at all, might get him onboard, but it's dicey. I'm not as strongly against it as Shard is, but I do think it's risky and not something we should do without taking some additional precautions. Now is not great timing, either, with the recent death of Steinarr. Thinking about it, we might want to wait until Sten is in a better headspace to consider asking even with assurances...
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- He/His/etc
Didn't our bird just demonstrate faculty with dropping things directly into people's mouths?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The implication is that their Mind is not inviolate, so the fate of a Steelfather seems to be their mind steadily decaying until they're a mostly irrelevant invincible, undying hobo in the wilderness.
Berserkergang taps everything out. A Steelfather's body and soul might not be exhausted, but they'd still check out mentally afterwards.
the breathing style thing reminded me of demon slayer. like, halla breathing, first form: jump up and chop em!
researching the breathing style would prob take precedence over most other research topics, because it seems to accelerate us, and the more attack speed we have the better our chances of winning any combat are. perhaps we should try turning the "stuttering" into a more steady rhythm? it might be about controlling the flow or the tempo
researching the breathing style would prob take precedence over most other research topics, because it seems to accelerate us, and the more attack speed we have the better our chances of winning any combat are. perhaps we should try turning the "stuttering" into a more steady rhythm? it might be about controlling the flow or the tempo
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- Location
- some computer lab
[x] Alectai
[X] Plan Of Books, Time, and Melting Steel
Personal Actions
-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (Free Action)
--[X] Fix the Runes on our Work Knife from last turn (+16 successes fromTools/Workshop)
--[X] "May using me teach how to use a blade." - Hopefully a TrainingItem for Pierce and Slash
-[X] (Underhouse) What would you like to use the Underhouse for?
--[X] Try and find a way to unlock the Dwarven ledger we found in the Underhouse.
--[X] If we don't seem to be getting anywhere, then contact Toki to see if the Dwarves can help, but be cautious. Feel him out first around the subject before revealing what we found.
-[X] Write A Book
–[X] Our first book will be an almanac on the Norse farm intended for prospective farmers, covering a diverse array of subjects from plants, animal husbandry, the correct way to lay out a field and farm buildings, and of course comprehensive information on Norse cultivation, including the meaning of Aspects, Orthstirr, Tricks, Hugareida, Styles, and so on. Also included will be information on the other prerequisites of Odr cultivation like needlebinding and weaving.
--[X[ Interspersed with these will be stories from folklore and poems. These are common in books of this type, but an attentive reader will begin to notice repeated odd resonances and repeated themes throughout all the stories and poems; the image of magic gates and through which rivers or monsters can pour, countless repeated versions of the story of how Odin or various Odin-like heroes steal the mead of poetry, and tales where cunning heroes overcome their foes through weaving.
--[X] Through poetic allusion and the rich oral tradition of the Norse with its bountiful supply of double-meanings, rather than through plain speech, the hidden message of our book will be revealed. The true secret of Odr cultivation, and the means to survive its first pitfalls.
-[X] (Personal) Spend time with...
--[X] Sten
--[X] Ask to see Sten alone, and tell him about our conversation with Corpsemaker, and tell him we have a premonition that some time in the future, our family will be drawn into conflict with Corpsemaker whether we wish to or not.
--[X] The only solution, therefore, is that either Sten or us needs to learn how to kill a Steelfather. We have to be prepared to strike first.
--[X] Ask him to share with us the secrets of Steel. This is not so that we can forge Steel in any useful form ourselves, and we are willing to swear an oath to that effect if it will assuage his worries, but so that we can learn how to unmake it.
--[X] If he says this is impossible, remind him that our grandfather, Hallr Blackhand, killed four Steelfathers in his last battle and a few before then, and could wield Ilmarinen's Fire capable of melting Steel. Remind him that the experts of other civilisations can and have killed Steelfathers before, and that recently Halfdan the Black was killed. Remind him that the only limitation for a Norse cultivator is the ones we put on ourselves, and that all men must die.
--[X] We know he is hiding secrets from his past, and we have not pressed him on them, although we are willing to help should he ever call for it. But this threatens the lives of both of our children, and we ask that we work with us. If we both work together, how can we fail?
--[X] If he is still unwilling, then ask for a something made of Steel we can use for target practice. We have our husband's sword, but we'd rather not use that. If we can't destroy it, then there's really no harm, is there?
-[X] [Social] Erect a Runestone for Steinarr honouring his life and accomplishments, and invest it with 3 Odr.
-[X] (Exploration) Go on a walk through...
--[X] The hills!
---[X] (Optional) Range further from your home
---[X] (Optional)Send your fylgja in your place (Does not cost an action)
-[X] Special Note: On all Crafting add the following if possible unless otherwise specified:
--[X] For metal items have Heat Hold available just in case
--[X] Using Sundersight (+1d3 Successes)
--[X] Stoking Frami, Virthing, and Saemd (for +1 Success each, +3 successes total) to enhance the crafting process
Training & Research
-[X] (Research)
--[X] Work on learning how to undo needlebinding more quickly and easily. –1 Research
--[X] Work on teaching Bjorney Eyespeech – 1 Research
--[X] Try and Infuse 1 Odr into the chicken in our soulscape's Hamr, see if we can apply that process to other people –1 Research
---[X] If it still seems hungry afterwards, feed it
--[X] Try and do the Burl and Bridge thing Solrun suggested to us – 1Research
--[X] Attempting to recruit the half-formed spirit-wisps in our soulscape –1 Research
--[X] Continue our research on uncovering the parent Style of Time Stands Still. Keep focussing on controlling and rationing our breath as we were doing before, so that the Stopped Time "stutters" in and out of existence as we move rather than being continuous. Try to visualise our breath as a store of energy, similar to our Stoker State, and experiment with how it speeds to our movements and eventually, strikes. Perhaps this is a kind of... Stutter Step?
-[X] (Training) Hamr (255 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 12xp (6xp)
--[X] Train Thermic Reckoning 36xp (18xp)
--[X] Train Brazier Bomb 4xp (2xp)
-[X] (Training) Hugr (255 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Contested Movement 28xp (14xp)
--[X] Train Silver-Tongue 12xp (6xp)
--[X] Train Light-Touch 6xp (3xp)
--[X] Train Contention-Connection 6xp (3xp)
--[X] Train Effort Gauge 28xp (14xp)
-[X] (Work Dice Usage)
--[X] Buildings, Resources, and Livestock: 2 Living Space, 2 Storage, otherwise maxed out (65 Total)
--[X] Construction: Put 19 into Workshop (19 Total)
--[X] Conversion: Spend for 6 Research Dice (12 Total)
-[X] (Incidentals)
--[X] Infuse 64 Odr into Hugr
---[X] Take our normal precautions for Infusing Hugr
---[X] Place the new Frenzy in 3 empty Pockets
--[X] Adding Taafl Board Capacity Gains to: Abjorn, Hallbjorn,
--[X] Receiving Metal from Dwarves: 24 oz Forged Iron, 6 oz Storm Iron
Alloys:
-[X] (Alloy Slots)
--[X] Assign ???
Capacity:
-[X] (Capacity Slots)
--[X] Assign Beaconlight, and Vows of Love.
Fylgja:
-[X] (Standing Orders)
--[X] Assign our Fylgja's remaining standing order to providing spiritual overwatch for us.
Notes
- So a lot of this is cribbed from Deadman's plan, massive thanks to him for that as always.- This plan gets the ball rolling on finally uncovering the secrets of Steel, we really grab the full potential of our book project by the horns, and we hopefully crack the parent style of Time Stands Still.
- I am putting more dice into our Hamr, since we want to get that to ten. This is amendable to tweaking, but my views on spending too many dice on random tricks are well known.
- On the Underhouse, I'm putting in some actions to consult the Dwarves if we can't get anywhere, rather than just spending a whole action trying and failing to get pas a Dwarven iPad's lock screen. However I've also put in a hedge for us to try feeling out Toki first - if they react weirdly to out suggestions or questions, then we won't tell them, or will at least get a chance to mull it over and vote.
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im down with this plan, seems solid
[X] Plan Of Books, Time, and Melting Steel
[X] Plan Of Books, Time, and Melting Steel
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- He/Him
I think the steel thing is premature and the Book idea risks Disclosure in a way we can't afford. I also think the Training difference is deeply inefficient (we should never spread training our next level of Hamr out over more than the two turn minimum needed to achieve it, there's no point...I actually have it in my tentative plans for the next two turns, but that means doing it this turn just denies us 32 xp worth of stuff this turn for literally no gains).
This, however, seems fine. Adding to my plan instead of inverting Ignition, which we do want to try but is less urgent to know the outcome of.
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The Ignition action can probably wait a turn I think. At least that's what I went for in my plan.
As far as qualification goes, I think that the anchor may well be our breath itself, or some other fundamental bodily thing. (Maybe linked to our divine heritage, maybe not.) Given how Norse cultivation is about simplicity, it would actually make a lot of sense if the simplest Anchors are the hardest to unlock, but also more powerful.
In some ways I think now is the best time, because grief focuses the mind. Steinarr was killed by a coordinated attack from someone who clearly meant him (and by extension our family) harm. Corpsemaker was in our home threatening us just a few weeks ago. Our family is under threat, and Steelfathers are almost certainly part of it.
It's that time when the going gets tough, and the tough have to get going.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Okay. Steel.
To bring in 40k for a moment, I think this relentless focus on Steel is like trying to figure out how to kill Lucius for realsies when you can't deal with bloodletters murdering your d00ds. Or to bring in Magic the Gathering, figuring out how to kill an Eldrazi when their basic constructs are murdering you, or in D&D, figuring out how to kill the level 15 dread wizard Lich when you are are a level 5 wizard whose best spell is Fireball. Nevermind finding and destroying their phylactery in their astral fortress of nowhere, their random ghouls are gonna murder you dead.
Like people kind of forget than Steelf*ther is a Steinarr-level combatant with an army of high end Ironbrothers as bodyguards leading a big warband before any Curse of Steel durability f-u stuff is applied. The level gap is stupid. We are in the same position as Gabriel when he went 'I will kill Steinarr', before any 'I am invincible, gtfo' stuff applies. In character Halla does not even have the tools to start working on overcoming the Curse of Steel. She has the tools to start working on the tools to start working on the tools to defeat the Curse of Steel.
Like, if this was the Manhattan Project, you are trying to rush to build the bomb, without having yet figured out how to build a Centrifuge (including materials), how to power that centrifuge, worked on the engineering defficulties of engineering a bomb, figuring out a delivery mechanism, or a mine to mine the plutonium to even start centrifuging into bomb material, etcetera.
To bring in 40k for a moment, I think this relentless focus on Steel is like trying to figure out how to kill Lucius for realsies when you can't deal with bloodletters murdering your d00ds. Or to bring in Magic the Gathering, figuring out how to kill an Eldrazi when their basic constructs are murdering you, or in D&D, figuring out how to kill the level 15 dread wizard Lich when you are are a level 5 wizard whose best spell is Fireball. Nevermind finding and destroying their phylactery in their astral fortress of nowhere, their random ghouls are gonna murder you dead.
Like people kind of forget than Steelf*ther is a Steinarr-level combatant with an army of high end Ironbrothers as bodyguards leading a big warband before any Curse of Steel durability f-u stuff is applied. The level gap is stupid. We are in the same position as Gabriel when he went 'I will kill Steinarr', before any 'I am invincible, gtfo' stuff applies. In character Halla does not even have the tools to start working on overcoming the Curse of Steel. She has the tools to start working on the tools to start working on the tools to defeat the Curse of Steel.
Like, if this was the Manhattan Project, you are trying to rush to build the bomb, without having yet figured out how to build a Centrifuge (including materials), how to power that centrifuge, worked on the engineering defficulties of engineering a bomb, figuring out a delivery mechanism, or a mine to mine the plutonium to even start centrifuging into bomb material, etcetera.
That's a fair point and I'm amenable to tweaking the training dice, I just would prefer it's on more core skills than wrestling or social tricks. Admittedly the update with Corpsemaker did flag up that his social tricks were clearly better than ours, so perhaps there's value in it...
On the Book disclosure risk, I think the best option is to spend a Reward Dice and ask Fister. Personally, I am very sure that poetic allusion will not trigger disclosure, because I suspect that this is part of why Odin gave the mead of poetry to men - thematically it fits too well. But I would be happy to spend my remaining Reward Dice to make sure and assuage any fears.
@Imperial Fister, if we hide the secret of Odr cultivation through metaphor and poetic allusion - nothing literal, just repeated implications through repeated themes and poetic metaphor in stories which together start to form a picture - is this a Disclosure risk?