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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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I should note, as a vocal proponent of technoVista, that being a transhumanist and trading your meaty bits for metal ones that are vastly superior in function, does not equate to giving up your humanity. Despite the distopic tone that some transhuman narratives like to cling to in fiction, being more metal doesnt make you less human. A hypothetical full conversation Vista with no meat left except her brain (and possibly not even that), is no less of a person than pre-MGET Vista.

Well, unless you consider your meat to be the definition of your humanity. But personally my views on humanity are way more philosophical.

Being pro-transhuman as she is, I highly doubt Vista would see such a trade as anything long the lines of trading her humanity for power... More like upgrades with no downsides that she cares about that shes totally gonna volunteer for.

That said, on the narrative side of things, I think it would be a waste to give Vista a mutagen, since currently she exists as a avenue to show that you dont have to be a Mage to be badass. Shes gotten a huge upgrade in her combat effectiveness with just one arm replaced. Imagine what shed be like in the future! While i admit the idea of her getting a core is certainly appealing, it feels like tossing too much shit in one pot. Theres plenty of other characters we could find to make our apprentice in the mystic arts :p, cramming everything into Vista dilutes the awesome of any one thing.
 
Silently Watches said:
Eh. The question that was actually asked, as best as I remember, was whether Maclibuin's spell could be added to a TEMPLATE. That answer is no. There is no logical reason why someone with a generic Boost Device couldn't learn it, however.
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Specifically, I asked, or intended to ask, if the spell could be added to PS's spell library, and thus taught to other people, though my intent and the words I actually used may not have been well aligned. I'm not sure it occurred to me that a spell that Storm couldn't add to a template device could be added to a regular device. This does bring up the natural question of whether Storm already has spells in his library that are not present in any of the templates.

ChaoticSky said:
I should note, as a vocal proponent of technoVista, that being a transhumanist and trading your meaty bits for metal ones that are vastly superior in function, does not equate to giving up your humanity. Despite the distopic tone that some transhuman narratives like to cling to in fiction, being more metal doesnt make you less human. A hypothetical full conversation Vista with no meat left except her brain (and possibly not even that), is no less of a person than pre-MGET Vista.
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With certain specific exceptions inherent to some settings, I can see your point. Shadowrun, for example, requires the biological manufacture of magical energy to keep the brain, and the mind inside it, even remotely human. In this setting, people are a combination of physical and magical beings, and cutting off too much of the physical hurts the magical, too. Of course, these rules exist partly to make the game a bit more balanced.

Rifts, on the other hand, operates entirely in line with your philosophy, with one of the classes being 'full conversion cyborg' which only has the absolute minimum organic bits needed to keep the mind intact.

ChaoticSky said:
That said, on the narrative side of things, I think it would be a waste to give Vista a mutagen, since currently she exists as a avenue to show that you dont have to be a Mage to be badass. Shes gotten a huge upgrade in her combat effectiveness with just one arm replaced. Imagine what shed be like in the future! While i admit the idea of her getting a core is certainly appealing, it feels like tossing too much shit in one pot. Theres plenty of other characters we could find to make our apprentice in the mystic arts :p, cramming everything into Vista dilutes the awesome of any one thing.
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Adding more cybernetics gets tricky because it is hard to power them. Training Vista as a mage would, at best, give her a few tricks she could apply. Giving her a core and using that core to fuel cybernetics, though, sends her down the Numbers line of better living through cybernetics, and without costing her that oh so useful parahuman power of hers.
 
Wyrd said:
Specifically, I asked, or intended to ask, if the spell could be added to PS's spell library, and thus taught to other people, though my intent and the words I actually used may not have been well aligned. I'm not sure it occurred to me that a spell that Storm couldn't add to a template device could be added to a regular device. This does bring up the natural question of whether Storm already has spells in his library that are not present in any of the templates.
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The only spells Storm knows are those included in the templates. For other spells, Tim and Dragon and the mage in question will need to figure out the coding on their own. I demonstrated that when Mac got his Device and split his previous ability into the Cape Boost and Create Boosted Artifact spells.
 
Silently Watches said:
The only spells Storm knows are those included in the templates. For other spells, Tim and Dragon and the mage in question will need to figure out the coding on their own. I demonstrated that when Mac got his Device and split his previous ability into the Cape Boost and Create Boosted Artifact spells.
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I really thought the "no" was to keep the spell unique to Maclibuin. Given your last couple of comments, and to make things explicitly clear, can a Device be programmed with the boost spells from Maclibuin's Device? My guess is that it would require a Boost Device instead of a Storage Device, but that it seems possible is important to note.

That all of Storm's spells are geared for war makes me even more interested in talking to the Enforcers about civilian spells. Helping to scale down the threat level of the Devices we can make might be allowable since they aren't giving us the dangerous stuff or uplifting our world. If nothing else, I'd like to get the characters thinking about the world they're making after the Endbringers are dealt with.

ChaoticSky said:
You think its not ethical to give a child soldier the best possible tools to protect herself? Vista chose her path, we are simply doing our best to keep her safe, healthy and effective.
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Yeah, even without the conflict drive in her head, if we were to remove it today, she would still be a fully conditioned child soldier not interested in being deprogrammed. That she has powers of such immense utility, powers that the world lacks adults in adequate quantities to provide, means that such a deprogramming will be fought tooth and nail. You can't claim that she should let other people do the fighting while she grows, when only she can do what she can do.
 
ChaoticSky said:
Vista chose her path,
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This...is very debatable, if you're referring to the heavy transhumanist mindset she has. She didn't really choose that, the thread chose it for her. If referring to her being a willing child solider, then yes she did choose that, but imo a customized set of armor would have been effective in keeping her safe(-ish) without nudging her towards the path of full-body conversion cyborg.

But what's done is done, I suppose.
 
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landcollector said:
She didn't really choose that, the thread chose it for her.
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If you don't think votes should determine the reality of the story..... why are you even posting in a Quest?

Vista the character absolutely chose to get far more done than just a good-as-original prosthetic arm. Vista the character is absolutely a willing and enthusiastic transhumanist.

Because this is a Quest and that is how the voters chose to describe her in this AU take on the setting.
 
Racoras said:
If you don't think votes should determine the reality of the story..... why are you even posting in a Quest?

Vista the character absolutely chose to get far more done than just a good-as-original prosthetic arm. Vista the character is absolutely a willing and enthusiastic transhumanist.

Because this is a Quest and that is how the voters chose to describe her in this AU take on the setting.
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Please do not conflate my disagreement with the thread's choice in that matter with voting in general. I do not feel the choice that was made really was a positive one for Vista's character arc, though I acknowledge I was a decided minority in that instance. Like I said, what's done is done.
 
Kitty S. Lillian said:
(emphasis added) Your choice of words undermines your point a bit, as it conflates humanity with personhood.
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ChaoticSky said:
Actually that was the point.
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Interestingly, in a world where the only non-human sapients are Entities (which due to their mindset can't really be called people), humanity is functionally identical to personhood. Hell, this even works with Guardian Beasts, as whilst they are animals, they are also inherently human. Duality of existences, and so on.

For what it's worth, though, I'm all for Vista turning into a cybernetic superbeing with powers, a linker core and robot bits for everything. I just worry about the nature of said robot bits - not in terms of mindset alienation, but in terms of upkeep. It's why I pushed to have the nanomachines on her robot limb back when that vote was occurring, and will continue to vote to have nanomachine nodes for self-repair on anything we can slap them on.
 
Anyone familiar with Eclipse Phase think Vista might be intrigued by the idea of re-sleeving? Studying Unison Devices and especially how the Simurgh modified what we made for (fake little girl) and Dragon might be a path to that technology..... and giving Dragon a "body" she can use in public, for that matter.
 
Wyrd said:
I really thought the "no" was to keep the spell unique to Maclibuin. Given your last couple of comments, and to make things explicitly clear, can a Device be programmed with the boost spells from Maclibuin's Device? My guess is that it would require a Boost Device instead of a Storage Device, but that it seems possible is important to note.
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Maclibuin would have to be involved in at least the first one to transfer the code for either spell (Cape Boost or create Boosted Artifact), and it would require a Boost Device*, but yes, you could give that spell to other mages.

* The caveat is one specific character/magic type, which is strange and weird and doesn't follow the rules**.
** Although considering this character would require an Advanced Device, a Boost Device would be an option… Never mind, please ignore both asterisks.
landcollector said:
This...is very debatable, if you're referring to the heavy transhumanist mindset she has. She didn't really choose that, the thread chose it for her. If referring to her being a willing child solider, then yes she did choose that, but imo a customized set of armor would have been effective in keeping her safe(-ish) without nudging her towards the path of full-body conversion cyborg.
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I believe Chaotic is referring to the child soldier aspect with the whole "she chose her path" bit.

This is probably also a good time to remind everyone that she isn't guaranteed to ask for full-body conversion even with being totally okay with transhumanism. If you guys don't vote to do that and don't put her in a situation where that's the only way to save her life, she won't volunteer for it. Having this leaning, or maybe easy tolerance is a better description, of transhumanism more means I don't have to put any limits on what you can do if you so desire.

The Linker Core she may or may not volunteer for. Depends on my mood at the time. :whistle:
 
Sorry for the double post, but HOLY SHIT THEY CHANGED THE SMILIES BACK!!!!!!!!

Sure, they kept the new ones if you want them and added a shit ton more it looks like, but I've missed the original smiles. They just seem to have more character than the new ones.
 
Hate Fish said:
For what it's worth, though, I'm all for Vista turning into a cybernetic superbeing with powers, a linker core and robot bits for everything. I just worry about the nature of said robot bits - not in terms of mindset alienation, but in terms of upkeep. It's why I pushed to have the nanomachines on her robot limb back when that vote was occurring, and will continue to vote to have nanomachine nodes for self-repair on anything we can slap them on.
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Indeed! Self sufficiency is important, as i recall, long term we will beable to place a repair system in her torso that works for her whole body, allowing us to swap the indavidual systems in her arms and elsewhere for something else.
 
landcollector said:
This...is very debatable, if you're referring to the heavy transhumanist mindset she has. She didn't really choose that, the thread chose it for her. If referring to her being a willing child solider, then yes she did choose that, but imo a customized set of armor would have been effective in keeping her safe(-ish) without nudging her towards the path of full-body conversion cyborg.

But what's done is done, I suppose.
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landcollector said:
Please do not conflate my disagreement with the thread's choice in that matter with voting in general. I do not feel the choice that was made really was a positive one for Vista's character arc, though I acknowledge I was a decided minority in that instance. Like I said, what's done is done.
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When the voters made the choice, it became her choice. Until we have observed a trait in a story post, it does not exist. The moment we do observe it, it suddenly has always been. Saying, then, that she didn't choose her mindset is inherently problematic, as you are taking your frustrations with the votes out on the character.

Fully customized armor could certainly add to her capabilities. Additional cybernetic augmentations could do the same. Personally, I lean towards the armor for most combat needs, but see the value in some implants that armor could not provide, such as a blood filter implant that can clean any toxins out of her bloodstream, or cybernetic eyes, as those could be used even in her civilian guise.

Racoras said:
Anyone familiar with Eclipse Phase think Vista might be intrigued by the idea of re-sleeving? Studying Unison Devices and especially how the Simurgh modified what we made for (fake little girl) and Dragon might be a path to that technology..... and giving Dragon a "body" she can use in public, for that matter.
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Quite a few pages back, I asked about us making a full body prosthetic, a robot that looked human, for Dragon to drive. SW responded that Dragon is already building one for herself, with no need to spend Tim's time and effort.
 
Silently Watches said:
She could also theoretically create a Familiar rather than a Guardian Beast. It's pretty much the same ritual process. The difference is that with her having so little magic, her Familiar would be more like Uno (an administrative assistant figure) than any other character in canon.
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I wonder if she could get a familiar to do the Costa Brown body double thing.
...based on what we've seen so far, probably not.
 
veekie said:
I wonder if she could get a familiar to do the Costa Brown body double thing.
...based on what we've seen so far, probably not.
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No telling. It'd depend on the vote and how things were set up. I wouldn't completely rule it out, though it in turn would not say good things about Alexandria's mindset.

Keep in mind that eventually RCB will have to age enough to "retire", leaving only Alexandria. She is well aware of that fact.
 
Some comments up to arc 3:

Silently Watches said:
It made them all thankful for the late-night pizzeria sitting only a few blocks from the shoreline and Robin's superspeed.
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Pretty sure he can't use superspeed when carrying anything.

Silently Watches said:
Calamity Witch. Blaster 6 to 7, Mover 5, Shaker 3. Possible Brute, at least from Robin's meeting with her"—Velocity nodded—"with rating estimated to be between 1 and 3
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Silently Watches said:
This is Samantha, no cape name. She complements Calamity Witch beautifully power-wise. Mover 9, Brute 7, Changer 3, Stranger 1, with an unknown Striker rating.
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Those numbers seem extremely high from what they've demonstrated so far.

Silently Watches said:
but besides Squealer, Rune, and the drug dealers she called in on Monday, she really has not gotten into many fights.
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Three fights in a week or two seems like quite a few. It's not like capes fight each other every day.

Silently Watches said:
Temporal Sludge learned.
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When? How? Why? That wasn't in the storyline anywhere. A lot of the "[skill] learned" or "[skill] raised by X points" don't seem to have anything to do with what's actually going on in the story, and come out of left field.

Silently Watches said:
This was an ugly battle, particularly for your first Endbringer fight
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Was it? It seemed pretty tame and rushed. I know you don't like them, but other than a sudden rush of (a few) deaths all at once the fight was pretty short and non-lethal.

Silently Watches said:
Almost two years previously, Scion had disappeared.
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Silently Watches said:
the vast majority of his powers vanished when Cauldron did
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Silently Watches said:
Now you know the AU element that's been plaguing this arc.
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It seems that there's a lot that's been handwaved away here. Scion gone, Cauldron gone, the Slaughterhouse 9 gone (due to Scion gone), Eidolon "retired", and probably more that I've forgotten. So... basically 80% of the threats and antagonists just gone. Coil is still there, but he's fairly boring and weak anyway, and has no real hold on the MC. The Undersiders exist, but aren't relevant to the story as either allies or antagonists. All that's left really is the Endbringers. You said in the A/N that this leaves the story on super-easy mode, which is both true and... somewhat disappointing. Why have a super-powered MC when all the threats are either nerfed or outright removed? Don't get me wrong, I like this story. I liked it when I read the first 40-50 chapters on FFN, and I'm liking it now that I've restarted. But it does seem... how do I put this... a little shallow? Like a god-mode CYOA SI, or something.

Silently Watches said:
From a precognitive perspective, every time you exchange a lot of information telepathically with Perfect Storm – such as getting the calculations for a spell or doing a training simulation – it is very similar to a trigger event.
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Silently Watches said:
as soon as you get in a fight, you turn into a recurrent blind spot in much the way Eidolon does and for the same reason.
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Silently Watches said:
If you chose to flee, you quickly would have discovered Ziz chasing you.
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If use of powers makes you a blind spot like a trigger event does, then HOW could Ziz chase? This isn't all that relevant since it didn't happen, but it seems to be a contradiction either way.
 
simianpower said:
When? How? Why? That wasn't in the storyline anywhere. A lot of the "[skill] learned" or "[skill] raised by X points" don't seem to have anything to do with what's actually going on in the story, and come out of left field.
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There's some fudging going on: New spells are earned by engaging in combat, and nearly all of our skill points have been earned via Omake and other OOC bonuses. It's why we never really do any training in the main thread.

simianpower said:
If use of powers makes you a blind spot like a trigger event does, then HOW could Ziz chase? This isn't all that relevant since it didn't happen, but it seems to be a contradiction either way.
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Same way Ziz handles all of her blindspots: By looking at other people observing the blindspot.

Also do remember this is a quest, and one we are expected to win.
 
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simianpower said:
It seems that there's a lot that's been handwaved away here. Scion gone, Cauldron gone, the Slaughterhouse 9 gone (due to Scion gone), Eidolon "retired", and probably more that I've forgotten. So... basically 80% of the threats and antagonists just gone. Coil is still there, but he's fairly boring and weak anyway, and has no real hold on the MC. The Undersiders exist, but aren't relevant to the story as either allies or antagonists. All that's left really is the Endbringers. You said in the A/N that this leaves the story on super-easy mode, which is both true and... somewhat disappointing. Why have a super-powered MC when all the threats are either nerfed or outright removed? Don't get me wrong, I like this story. I liked it when I read the first 40-50 chapters on FFN, and I'm liking it now that I've restarted. But it does seem... how do I put this... a little shallow? Like a god-mode CYOA SI, or something.
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The issue is that you're treating this as a pure story. But this is a quest, a game. Killing the endbringers is a realistic goal for a quest, but dealing with all of those damn situations? All the shit in Worm? It would be too much. Hell, we're already struggling to deal with stuff that's already there, and we almost ended up turning Taylor into an asocial murdersavant because we don't seem to have time to bother with socials.
 
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simianpower said:
It's funny that you mention that, since the chapter right after where I responded has Taylor hanging out with Vista. :) (Granted, it's an early chapter still.)
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From what I remember, a lot of the times we did social hang outs we either had an ulterior motive besides hanging out, or it was enforced by GM. At least until we got dedicated social slots, It hink. I might be misremembering it though, so would appreciate if someone corrected me.
 
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