Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

[odin lowe]

I can understand Silently Watches frustration. It's always annoyed me that a VERY large percentage of capes have minor, only situational, or no protection from kinetic/thermal impact weapons and yet entire groups of gangsters with guns get taken down by them. It reminds me of star wars where the clone troopers are implanted with knowledge, trained in nothing but combat for years, and armed with fucking LASERIFLES but still can't hit the broad side of a barn.

One of my favorite quests is aguy's quest Soldier of Fortune because in it Taylor is basically a badass normal when it comes to combat other than the fact that she will resurrect if she's killed but she still manages to kick parahumans asses. Sadly it seems to be on a bit of a hiatus.

 

[zero_traveler]

I'd always assumed it was some kind of pseudo-dimension, like a shadow of the real world.

The "barrier spell" sends out a wave that 'pushes' anything that is effected by it a 'step' away from reality. The difference between this and hopping to another dimension would be like the difference between going from your house to your friends house (dimension hopping) and going from your living room to your kitchen (whatever the barrier spell does)

Then the damage issue is nothing "real" is damaged, because it's just 'shadows' of the real world.

Instead of 'step' I guess I could have used 'cuil', come to think of it...

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

I'd always assumed it was some kind of pseudo-dimension, like a shadow of the real world.

The "barrier spell" sends out a wave that 'pushes' anything that is effected by it a 'step' away from reality. The difference between this and hopping to another dimension would be like the difference between going from your house to your friends house (dimension hopping) and going from your living room to your kitchen (whatever the barrier spell does)

Then the damage issue is nothing "real" is damaged, because it's just 'shadows' of the real world.

Instead of 'step' I guess I could have used 'cuil', come to think of it...

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I really only have circumstantial evidence to argue against that one, but... Okay, they can inside of Bounded Fields from the outside (even if they need a ship to do it). This implies that, if they tried, they would also be able to peek into the Shadow Dimension at any time they want, and yet they still call it "Creating a Bounded Field" instead of "Going into" when they are setting one up.

Honestly the idea in itself isn't bad, except on a technical level I would argue that damaging the shadow/mirror should have some kind of effect on the Real world version. Maybe completely randomized damage carry-over? *Shrug* The thing is, I'd say its impossible for the link between Real-Space and Barrier-Space to be one way, otherwise no one would shunted back into Real-Space when the Barrier is taken down. Especially if it is collapsed in an uncontrolled fashion.

 

[zero_traveler]

My actual question is, do normal people see the delineation of the edge of the barrier shell? If you aren't affected by it, do you notice that you walked through a magic wall at all? We see it from the magic perspective so we see a huge domed field where the barrier is, but do ordinary people see that?

If you are able to be affected, but are not included in the field, do you see it then? Does the barrier keep you outside it's perimeter, or do you pass through to the "un-barrier-ed" section of Spacetime?

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

My actual question is, do normal people see the delineation of the edge of the barrier shell? If you aren't affected by it, do you notice that you walked through a magic wall at all? We see it from the magic perspective so we see a huge domed field where the barrier is, but do ordinary people see that?

If you are able to be affected, but are not included in the field, do you see it then? Does the barrier keep you outside it's perimeter, or do you pass through to the "un-barrier-ed" section of Spacetime?

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I think you're supposed to pass through it like it isn't there, unless you can detect it and are trying to get in. If it kept people that were excluded at the perimeter of the Barrier then anyone inside the area of the Barrier when its first made would also be ejected and that seems.... eh.

As for noticing the edges like something of a mirage? I can't say one way or the other. I'd personally default to not being able to see it, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other for that.

 

[Silently Watches]

My actual question is, do normal people see the delineation of the edge of the barrier shell? If you aren't affected by it, do you notice that you walked through a magic wall at all? We see it from the magic perspective so we see a huge domed field where the barrier is, but do ordinary people see that?

If you are able to be affected, but are not included in the field, do you see it then? Does the barrier keep you outside it's perimeter, or do you pass through to the "un-barrier-ed" section of Spacetime?

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In A's, TSAB mage's could see the Wolkenritters' barrier and broke in, so clearly mages can interact with an established barrier. I also believe that at least people who aren't affected are meant to never notice that's something's wrong, so if you aren't a mage, you can walk in and out without a care. Mages on the outside… I'd guess that if they don't try to get in, they can walk right through the edge and stay in Real Space and probably see no signs of the barrier unless they look at its periphery, but I don't have any canon references to back that up.

 

[Manic Dogma]

IIRC, isn't there a scene in one of the series where some characters are forced to try and penetrate a barrier from the outside?

 

[veekie]

Are you suggesting that they're creating the area whole-sale? Because I hope you're not. The sheer fucking mana cost to generate that would be stupidly expensive, the mana cost to pull the energy to turn into matter from the dimensional sea is much the same. I mean seriously, just what.

You're making my inner physicist scream/flip out/jibber in terror at the energy to mass coversion costs and then making my inner nerd do the same at the fact that you're suggesting that they risk a Dimensional Tear/Displacement/Whatever-it-was-the-Jewel-Seeds-were-going-to-do every single time they open a Bounded Field.

Do you see the issue with this? You're suggesting every Bounded Field is on par with a Ship traveling the Dimensional Sea... and then successfully letting itself be breached to let matter exist inside of it created from said Dimensional Sea and then closing back up without being ripped to shreds.

Oh, and then they have to make sure to arrange it to perfectly resemble the area they just "pulled in".

And they do this pretty much instantly.

There are issues with your idea.

... Sorry, just saw the suggested energy costs of what veekie was suggesting and kind of... *Waves hand vaguely* Yeah.

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Nanoha Strikers - Solid hologram city to use as a training ground. Destroyed during nearly every training and regenerated in time for the next.

Clearly it's feasible, and if you're pulling on a dimensional snapshot, one which would NORMALLY disperse into nothing, and just extending it's lifespan for the battle...what's the problem with accessing a very near dimension and using it as a partial overlay? Note that most barriers are city block sized or smaller until As, when you're dealing with Book of Darkness spawned or Arthra generated barriers of city-scale.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

Nanoha Strikers - Solid hologram city to use as a training ground. Destroyed during nearly every training and regenerated in time for the next.

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And do we ever see Mages do this on the fly? No? Then its not relevant to our discussion on Barrier-Spaces.

Clearly it's feasible, and if you're pulling on a dimensional snapshot, one which would NORMALLY disperse into nothing, and just extending it's lifespan for the battle...what's the problem with accessing a very near dimension and using it as a partial overlay? Note that most barriers are city block sized or smaller until As, when you're dealing with Book of Darkness spawned or Arthra generated barriers of city-scale.

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Except for the canon explanation is the exact opposite. It does not disperse into nothing. Yes, SW decided to ignore it/jump straight into higher level barriers for Taylor, that doesn't change what canon says about environmental transferring over to Real-Space when the Barrier is destroyed or taken down. And the problem is that the matter and energy still needs to come from somewhere, and then you have that and you still need to go and rearrange every molecule to be where its supposed to be.

Again, lot of friggin trouble for something that is supposed to be relatively simple.

 

[Silently Watches]

After-Action Report for Arc 3: Psychic Smasher

The Who, the What, and (Some of) the Why
I'm sure some of you are still wondering what the hell just happened. The short answer is that the Simurgh was after you, and no, it's not just because you're the protagonist and so the world automatically revolves around you. From a precognitive perspective, every time you exchange a lot of information telepathically with Perfect Storm – such as getting the calculations for a spell or doing a training simulation – it is very similar to a trigger event. If you're just sitting there quietly doing something non-cape-related, she can predict you, but as soon as you get in a fight, you turn into a recurrent blind spot in much the way Eidolon does and for the same reason. That means when you interact with major events, her precognition fails and she has to replot the future. She understandably wants to know how you can do that. As for what she intends to do with that information, only one person IC knows, and she isn't talking yet.

The reason for the power nullifier–mutagenic cannon–Scream booster was, as I've mentioned on SV, because she was making a point of just how dangerous she can be. No one knew the Endbringer were sandbagging at this point in canon. Now they, and you in particular, do. She thinks you have something she wants, and she's decided fear is the best way to motivate you into giving it to her.

To Flee or Not to Flee

• You chose to stick around and help.
• If you chose to flee, you quickly would have discovered Ziz chasing you. She can't figure out what you're doing if you aren't there, now can she? At that point, you could have chosen to lead her back to Brockton Bay and thereby become part of the fight in an active combat role, or you could have tried to hold her off where you were, which would have ended… badly. Fatally badly.

Team Player

• You chose to be part of the Search and Rescue group.
• Had you chosen the transport group, you only would have grabbed five sets of people before Ziz attacked the PRT headquarters and forced you to focus on the fight at hand. Just like had you run, she needs you to stick around.
• Without Solar Wrath, you wouldn't have been able to do much good in the Blaster group. You would have gotten two new spells instead of one, though.
• You had nothing to offer by joining the strategy or healing group, and if I remember correctly, I didn't even give you the choice of joining the latter.
• Joining the impact group would have gotten you killed, full stop. That consequence was meant to be obvious.

The Electro-Psychic Pulse

• That fucking vote. I hate it. I'm the GM. I should never, ever have to decide how a vote goes. That goes double when I know that one of the choices is superior to the other.
• The path you chose got you caught in the AMF pulse and temporarily dropped your spells down a skill level. But, since you protected Vista, she suffered no injuries.
• Had you flown away, you would have escaped the blast. Your spells would have been at full power. And since the actual vote was to grab Vista, she would have been safe and not de-powered, too. This is the choice I wanted to give you.
• God, that vote sucked.
• Shielding yourself only would have ended the same as the plan you chose for you, but Vista would have been injured since she would tried to "step" away from the pulse and would have lost her power between the two buildings. It wouldn't have killed her because I'm not that mean, but it would have broken her legs.
• Had you dropped down to huddle behind a building, you would have been affected by the blast just the same.
• Oh, and the Temporal Sludge plan. Even though it involved flying away, the exact wording involved waiting until the unaffected edge of the blast passed you to try to run. The pulse would have dissolved Temporal Sludge just as easily as it did Wide Area Search and Strong Shield, and so you wouldn't have been able to get away fast enough to escape it. You probably would have been injured, too, since you would have lost your flight between buildings just like Vista would have. Had the vote been to cast Temporal Sludge and then fly away as fast as you could while the rest of the blast was still approaching, you would have made it to safety.
• Have I mentioned how much I hate making that vote turn out?

The Beast

• Holy shit, the entire chapter leading up to that vote just sent tempers sky high.
• Originally, running back to base was guaranteed survival, attacking the Simurgh was guaranteed death, and attacking or distracting Monster Mom was a chance at death. That idea was changed because 1) I was tired of the arc and wanted it to be over, 2) thinking about it again, killing you does not serve the Simurgh's interests any more than letting you run around outside of the battlefield does, and 3) it would have almost certainly kicked up a riot that I did not want to deal with. I'm not that oblivious.

Aftermath

• You chose to head home in 1.2, so Danny didn't go postal on the assembled capes and use his powers to try to kill Kaiser and Lung. It also means you got mega-easy mode, what with Scion hand waved away as I mentioned doing early on.
• Telling the Protectorate about telepathy and your immunity didn't give you any immediate advantage because of how hasty the screening was, but they now have a lot more information about telepathy than anyone has ever been able to figure out.
• You earned Alexandria's attention in a big way, both with your telepathic immunity, your knowledge, and how you reminded her of herself, which honestly was not part of the plan but wrote itself into 3.5 and 3.x all on its own. We'll see how that plays out in the future.
• Since you never recruited Purity, she was still considered a villain and was quarantined in BB due to being questionably compromised. Ironically, considering the reasons for not taking the Light in the Darkness quest in Arc 2 until you were all but forced into it, it was your absence rather than your actions that drove her back to the Nazis.

Skills

• From here on out, we will be using a skill tree to get new spells. I hope you enjoy getting more direct control over your character.
• Since you didn't fight the Simurgh, you could only learn one spell this time. You picked Solar Wrath, which will serve you well so long as you don't kill anybody with it. Although if you mean to kill somebody, I suppose it will still serve you well.

 

[landcollector]

To Flee or Not to Flee

• You chose to stick around and help.
• If you chose to flee, you quickly would have discovered Ziz chasing you. She can't figure out what you're doing if you aren't there, now can she? At that point, you could have chosen to lead her back to Brockton Bay and thereby become part of the fight in an active combat role, or you could have tried to hold her off where you were, which would have ended… badly. Fatally badly.

Click to shrink...

In the end, a non-choice then. Ziz-approved, but ugh.

 

[Always Late]

I'm sure some of you are still wondering what the hell just happened. The short answer is that the Simurgh was after you, and no, it's not just because you're the protagonist and so the world automatically revolves around you. From a precognitive perspective, every time you exchange a lot of information telepathically with Perfect Storm – such as getting the calculations for a spell or doing a training simulation – it is very similar to a trigger event. If you're just sitting there quietly doing something non-cape-related, she can predict you, but as soon as you get in a fight, you turn into a recurrent blind spot in much the way Eidolon does and for the same reason. That means when you interact with major events, her precognition fails and she has to replot the future. She understandably wants to know how you can do that. As for what she intends to do with that information, only one person IC knows, and she isn't talking yet.

Click to shrink...

Huh.

No one knew the Endbringer were sandbagging at this point in canon. Now they, and you in particular, do. She thinks you have something she wants, and she's decided fear is the best way to motivate you into giving it to her.

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... Simurgh's trying to intimidate Taylor Herbert into bowing to her?
Did losing Scion's control knock a few screws loose?
Also, the 'one person knows, she isn't talking yet' makes me think Doctor Mother or Contessa survived somehow.
EDIT: I am an idiot. The one person who knows is Lisa, isn't it?

To Flee or Not to Flee

• You chose to stick around and help.
• If you chose to flee, you quickly would have discovered Ziz chasing you.

Click to shrink...

Knew it.

At that point, you could have chosen to lead her back to Brockton Bay and thereby become part of the fight in an active combat role, or you could have tried to hold her off where you were, which would have ended… badly. Fatally badly.

Click to shrink...

So Bad choice or worst choice. Got it.

The Electro-Psychic Pulse

• That fucking vote. I hate it. I'm the GM. I should never, ever have to decide how a vote goes. That goes double when I know that one of the choices is superior to the other.

Click to shrink...

Uh...

• The path you chose got you caught in the AMF pulse and temporarily dropped your spells down a skill level. But, since you protected Vista, she suffered no injuries.

• Had you flown away, you would have escaped the blast. Your spells would have been at full power. And since the actual vote was to grab Vista, she would have been safe and not de-powered, too. This is the choice I wanted to give you.

• God, that vote sucked.

Click to shrink...

Lesson learned then?

• Oh, and the Temporal Sludge plan. Even though it involved flying away, the exact wording involved waiting until the unaffected edge of the blast passed you to try to run. The pulse would have dissolved Temporal Sludge just as easily as it did Wide Area Search and Strong Shield, and so you wouldn't have been able to get away fast enough to escape it. You probably would have been injured, too, since you would have lost your flight between buildings just like Vista would have. Had the vote been to cast Temporal Sludge and then fly away as fast as you could while the rest of the blast was still approaching, you would have made it to safety.

Click to shrink...

So it still came down to 'do you fly away or not'. Which makes that whole idea a pointless diversion.

You chose to head home in 1.2, so Danny didn't go postal on the assembled capes and use his powers to try to kill Kaiser and Lung.

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... wut.

• Since you never recruited Purity, she was still considered a villain and was quarantined in BB due to being questionably compromised. Ironically, considering the reasons for not taking the Light in the Darkness quest in Arc 2 until you were all but forced into it, it was your absence rather than your actions that drove her back to the Nazis.

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FUCK! Just... FUCK! Great job people, we just lost one of the most powerful Blasters in North America for good./mad at myself as much as others.:headdesk::headdesk:
*sigh*
Whatever, we're leaving BB behind for a new home, I can just repress all that, as it'll never come up again.

 

[Kioras]

FUCK! Just... FUCK! Great job people, we just lost one of the most powerful Blasters in North America for good./mad at myself as much as others.:headdesk::headdesk:
*sigh*
Whatever, we're leaving BB behind for a new home, I can just repress all that, as it'll never come up again.

Click to shrink...

Well, we were actually 0/2 on recruitment.

We pissed off Tattletale, so no chance on thinker ally even if we completed that quest line. We blew the one chance to get Purity by not putting the effort in there, so those actions were wasted.

On the prior thread, anything with Coil is 1/2 wasted as we would only get partial rewards, no ally from it. The action with Purity is now a total waste too. So it now feels that almost all the actions in First Impact are now useless.

 

[Always Late]

On the prior thread, anything with Coil is 1/2 wasted as we would only get partial rewards, no ally from it

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And he's still free to go set up shop somewhere else and our evidence is utterly worthless.

So it now feels that almost all the actions in First Impact are now useless.

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... yeah, pretty much. Only Big Game Hunting's results haven't been thrown in our face.
Well, if we ever run into Protectorate problems because of the answer we gave back then, then we can label First Impact a complete waste of time.
Or maybe this Simurgh fight should have been pushed back to the next EB fight slot. *shrug* Only time will tell.

 

[Kioras]

Well, if we ever run into Protectorate problems because of the answer we gave back then, then we can label First Impact a complete waste of time.

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Doubt it, Taylor has Alexandra's attention and the fact we gave a 100 page info dump on Ziz's telepathy including technical details on blocking it so that way Dragon can work on something should make it a moot point.

I guess in the future, follow any quest line to the complete end, do not drop and pick back up because by the end of the chapter it will be useless.

 

[Silently Watches]

... wut.

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I mentioned that all the way back in 1.4, if you remember.

Also, the 'one person knows, she isn't talking yet' makes me think Doctor Mother or Contessa survived somehow.

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It was supposed to be fairly obvious I was talking about Ziz here.

So it now feels that almost all the actions in First Impact are now useless.

Click to shrink...

... yeah, pretty much. Only Big Game Hunting's results haven't been thrown in our face.
Well, if we ever run into Protectorate problems because of the answer we gave back then, then we can label First Impact a complete waste of time.

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You got character development from it, so that's a thing? Maybe? And you got a Guardian Beast, too, which was one of two big prizes I was offering in First Impact (Purity joining the team being the other, obviously).

I won't say that following a sidequest to its completion will always be the best option as sometimes I front-load them (see Big Game Hunting), but anyone who's played any RPG ever should know that the best rewards usually come at the end.

 

[Always Late]

I guess in the future, follow any quest line to the complete end, do not drop and pick back up because by the end of the chapter it will be useless.

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Sounds like a good plan.
And the old line of 'control your self, lest others control you' would be a good #2. Can't make potential allies into enemies just because they have bad social.
EDIT:

It was supposed to be fairly obvious I was talking about Ziz here.

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I mentioned that all the way back in 1.4, if you remember.

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Oh.

You got character development from it, so that's a thing? Maybe?

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Eeeh. Not saying that's bad, but when it comes to... I can't help but feel I'm using the wrong term, but let's go with 'tangible rewards', things are pretty hollow compared to what's been lost.

 

[Silently Watches]

I guess in the future, follow any quest line to the complete end, do not drop and pick back up because by the end of the chapter it will be useless.

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Just going to point out that so long as you have time, you can pick up a quest you dropped without any penalty. It's just that when I give you an arc like Arc 2 was where you can choose between sidequests, I have a countdown running for when the next arc starts.

 

[Kioras]

And the old line of 'control your self, lest others control you' would be a good #2. Can't make potential allies into enemies just because they have bad social.

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Being rude to the player character pushes all of the buttons on the SV and SB player base. Add in hints of manipulation and you have escalation to make things worse.

And he's still free to go set up shop somewhere else and our evidence is utterly worthless.

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And Tattletale is dragged to follow him. Just because she could not keep her mouth shut, followed by players ESCALATING (quest name) she can't even expect Calamity Witch to rescue her. We also missed the chance to work with him and get benefits that way.

Just going to point out that so long as you have time, you can pick up a quest you dropped without any penalty. It's just that when I give you an arc like Arc 2 was where you can choose between sidequests, I have a countdown running for when the next arc starts.

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That sounds like places in games I either end up reloading to the start of the arc or rely on hint guides so I know enough to not screw up and miss important options. If I don't move on to another game.

Was this a stated count down to us, or a hidden 'Suddenly Endbringer' countdown.

 

[landcollector]

And Tattletale is dragged to follow him. Just because she could not keep her mouth shut, followed by players ESCALATING (quest name) she can't even expect Calamity Witch to rescue her. We also missed the chance to work with him and get benefits that way.

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Welp. That pretty much only leaves two options for Lisa then, doesn't it?: Either she gets drugged ala Dinah, or she eventually eats a bullet (likely when Coil tires of her).

 

[the DragonBard]

Dang it!
We need to work on the recruitment harder next time.
Hope we get a second shot at Purity or Lisa.

 

[Always Late]

We also missed the chance to work with him and get benefits that way.

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Land's got a pretty good summary of the 'benefits' of working under Calvert.

Welp. That pretty much only leaves two options for Lisa then, doesn't it?: Either she gets drugged ala Dinah, or she eventually eats a bullet (likely when Coil tires of her).

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That sounds like places in games I either end up reloading to the start of the arc or rely on hint guides so I know enough to not screw up and miss important options. If I don't move on to another game.

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Have to agree with you there.

Was this a stated count down to us, or a hidden 'Suddenly Endbringer' countdown.

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Yes and no. Yes, we knew an Endbringer attack was coming, they're three months fairly regularly after all. Yes, those with knowledge of the Worm canon timeline knew this was when Simurgh hit Canberra, Australia. No, we didn't know Simurgh'd hit Brockton Bay.

 

[Kioras]

Have to agree with you there.

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We also missed out on chances to get spells in the that arc too, so all around the whole arc other then Samantha was a total bust other then some PRT good will.

Yes, we knew an Endbringer attack was coming, they're three months fairly regularly after all. Yes, those with knowledge of the Worm canon timeline knew this was when Simurgh hit Canberra, Australia. No, we didn't know Simurgh'd hit Brockton Bay.

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Just one hitting the Bay turns everything done prior into a waste though.

 

[Always Late]

Hope we get a second shot at Purity.

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Probably won't. Remember Taylor's mentality towards Purity? Taylor still assumed she was a Nazi, and our parting words were basically telling her that if she wanted to be a hero, then she needed to act like one. Seeing Purity with Kaiser/E88, that'd torpedo Taylor's opinion of her. And that's not counting the hassle of getting someone from a Simurgh quarantine zone out and dealing with the double stigma of Neo-nazi/Ziz bomb.
With us knowing OOC there are other, more powerful OC shards out there, is Purity really worth the hassle anymore?

We also missed out on chances to get spells in the last arc too, so all around the whole arc other then Samantha was a total bust other then some PRT good will.

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Just one hitting the Bay turns everything done prior into a waste though.

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Yup to both.

 

[Silently Watches]

That sounds like places in games I either end up reloading to the start of the arc or rely on hint guides so I know enough to not screw up and miss important options. If I don't move on to another game.

Was this a stated count down to us, or a hidden 'Suddenly Endbringer' countdown.

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You were going to miss important options anyway, even if you knew everything that was going to happen ahead of time. You are supposed to choose which quests you want to follow and which you're going to ignore. Some have primarily mechanics prizes (spells), and some have primarily storyline prizes (character development and potential recruits).

The issue you as a group had in Arc 2 was that you continued down one quest where you got the big storyline prize in the beginning (Big Game Hunting), followed a second storyline plot and balked at the last minute before you reached the prize (Strange Bedfellows), and then started Light in the Darkness when you didn't have the time to reach the big or bigger prizes. Not to mention, I gave you a spell choice after the fight with Oni Lee, so you did get a prize. You just learned a spell that didn't help you the one time you tried to use it.

The only person who sees the countdown is me. I didn't give you any hints because at that point I'm giving away plot-relevant information that you have no IC way of getting. Taylor doesn't get an email the week before something big is about to happen that says "Wrap up any projects you're still working on! You'll be thoroughly distracted soon!", and that's essentially what I'd be doing if I showed you the countdowns. I might make an exception for Endbringer fights in the future, though, since they are fairly regular. This time it was important that it be a surprise.

Probably won't. Remember Taylor's mentality towards Purity? Taylor still assumed she was a Nazi, and our parting words were basically telling her that if she wanted to be a hero, then she needed to act like one.

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If I remember correctly, your parting words were actually offering to help fight against the ABB and thinking that she needed all the help she could get to really turn her life around.

Besides, as you might have guessed, I like Purity (or at least I feel sympathetic to what she was trying to do). What that means for the future, you'll just have to wait and see.