It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

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I think there's two or so big gaps in our understanding of Concordance and it's sub... what do we call Fracture and Tension? Are they sub sources to Concodance? What's the correct term?

Anyways our big gaps to understand Concordance is how we went from having our Innate Source of Fracture from being Unwoven to having less than .1% upon getting Cleaver. If Fracture is fate like you say Edifier and Cleaver got rid of our fate then why was our fate Unwoven before getting Cleaver which itself gave us Fracture if such a small amount that it's practically undetectable?

Second is how does our Super High (which is the max level for our Source stuff currently) Channel Source of Tension work into this theory? Cause if Lilly's 'weight' is Tension and that 'weight' is merely an ants than how does that line up with having max channel? Has Lilly all this time been using just her miniscule Innate (Super Low + literally a step to being the smallest) Source Tension to do things instead of Channeling Tension? That makes sense since iirc part of the problem with Dream is that it's hard to figure out how to Channel Essence at the start and we just bypassed that entire process so maybe Lilly just doesn't know how to Channel Tension despite being super suited to it? Would need to reread a lot of our Concordance stuff and experiments to get a better idea but if so this implies that Lilly has barely touched her Concordance powers
 
GlassMask said:
This likely has a lot of synergy with [Dream within the Forest]. However its the potential Synergy with [Thy Resolution, Thy Bedrock] that interests me here the most. I suspect this combined with [Thy Resolution, Thy Bedrock] will be a potent anti-Valerie defense. I however suspect it will be less successful against Lord Waters than one would expect. This is because he has the ability to target weakpoints and we wpuld effectively be making ourself the weakpoint in some of the more potent cases.

Its a really good "support" power though, and in character I feel like Lilly would choose this.
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This seems more an argument for taking Relations. Currently our weak point is our family, and becoming personally stronger isn't going to stop Lord Waters from attacking from that direction. Relations however shores up that weakness and forces Lord Waters to come for us instead.

I really do think we need Relations. Everyone and their kitchen sink seem to want control of us, some of our own powers included. The "optimal" mindstate proved that [Thy Resolution, Thy Bedrock] isn't enough on its own, and it was only our connection, our relation, with Petal that saved us there. Relations gives us a way to keep our family safe, but it also gives our family a way to help us, which they've all been despairing over recently.

I don't want to become a monolith on our own and lose touch with our family.
 
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Stone Mason said:
This seems more an argument for taking Relations. Currently our weak point is our family, and becoming personally stronger isn't going to stop Lord Waters from attacking from that direction. Relations however shores up that weakness and forces Lord Waters to come for us instead.

I really do think we need Relations. Everyone and their kitchen sink seem to want control of us, some of our own powers included. The "optimal" mindstate proved that [Thy Resolution, Thy Bedrock] isn't enough on its own, and it was only our connection, our relation, with Petal that saved us there. Relations gives us a way to keep our family safe, but it also gives our family a way to help us, which they've all been despairing over recently.
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Well it was baby Evie that saved us there. Originally Petal got rewritten like everything else.
What went wrong with [Dream within the Forest]? I configured it the same as all the other integration vectors and they showed not problems at all.
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Deuterium Dawn said:
Well it was baby Evie that saved us there. Originally Petal got rewritten like everything else.
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My understanding was that Evie fiddled with our [Dream within the Forest] powers so that Petal could save us? This seemed pretty explicit:

Slyvena said:
The {Attuned Locus} was not properly reoptimized. It has retained and is attempting to reassert an Identity backup. Do not retaliate, will cause mutual self-termination.
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Slyvena said:
"Hello Lilly. You can call me Petal, I am your {Attuned Locus}, the 'Prime Tree'."
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Slyvena said:
"...You went all weird for a while there before I pushed the truth of you back up..."
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Stone Mason said:
My understanding was that Evie fiddled with our [Dream within the Forest] powers so that Petal could save us? This seemed pretty explicit:
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Right, but if Evie hadn't intervened, our connection to her would have, at best, eventually been made to recognize mindstate Lilly just like MYTB. The conversation says Ev'aclliál did reconfigure it like everything else and then Evie undid it. It wasn't any more effective in protecting us than any of our other powers(barring Evie). I'm not against Relations but I don't know that it would have explicitly helped there.
 
NotteBoy97 said:
I think there's two or so big gaps in our understanding of Concordance and it's sub... what do we call Fracture and Tension? Are they sub sources to Concodance? What's the correct term?

Anyways our big gaps to understand Concordance is how we went from having our Innate Source of Fracture from being Unwoven to having less than .1% upon getting Cleaver. If Fracture is fate like you say Edifier and Cleaver got rid of our fate then why was our fate Unwoven before getting Cleaver which itself gave us Fracture if such a small amount that it's practically undetectable?

Second is how does our Super High (which is the max level for our Source stuff currently) Channel Source of Tension work into this theory? Cause if Lilly's 'weight' is Tension and that 'weight' is merely an ants than how does that line up with having max channel? Has Lilly all this time been using just her miniscule Innate (Super Low + literally a step to being the smallest) Source Tension to do things instead of Channeling Tension? That makes sense since iirc part of the problem with Dream is that it's hard to figure out how to Channel Essence at the start and we just bypassed that entire process so maybe Lilly just doesn't know how to Channel Tension despite being super suited to it? Would need to reread a lot of our Concordance stuff and experiments to get a better idea but if so this implies that Lilly has barely touched her Concordance powers
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There is 'potential', there is 'weight', and there is mystery 'something'. These 3 were brought up during the big push.
'Concordant tension' was mentioned floating around Lilly. Might be unconnected, just an observation on the quality of Tension.
Will seems as a resource as well. Think that's what Cleaver converted Lilly's fate into.

The power could possibly do more if Concordant Weight is grown. That was one of the training options earlier in the quest. Alongside... unlocking the modulating of {The Ladder}. And one was expanding the scope of {Ply the Line}.
Lilly has noted many times that her own 'weight' is like that of a feathers. And yeah, It's lining up. Think she's suppose to connect to other people, things, and channel. Or make links and keep distribute 'weight'.

If ply the line could be channeled into something more than a rock. What sorts of events could Lilly 'Will' to happen? Could it involve a prolonged kind of channeling or surging weight around at more abstract things? Maybe it'd involve trading 'potential' and that unknown 'something'.
When Lilly looked inside her soul, she saw a lot of tension lines reacting to things, not knowing what she was receiving there. [Cleaver of Fate] isn't used as a manager or commander type of power by Lilly, tho that's what it might have been intended as.


It'd be something if [Cleaver of Fate] has a function to actively channel those resources into other people's own Tension and Fractures. Instead of one surge of weight to bring a fortunate occurrence to Lilly, but a prolonged weighing on things. Leaning luck in her favor. Yet that sounds a lot like {Critical Pivot}.

So the Channeling aspect of Cleaver could be unexplored yet still working in the backround.
It's interesting that when adding conditions to the {Rungs of Wisdom} the power becomes slower. That may be one aspect of how channeling works, programs that are constantly on. Like the Ladder is always churning away. But when we integrated more of the power into our soul Innate Fracture Manipulation rose. Might be both, channeling the resources and doing fine delicate manipulation work.

Running low on Concordant Weight means the passive powers shut down, at least Rungs of Wisdom does.
Channeling could contribute to us having access to countless futures and splitting them into smaller segments. {Sample Space} is Lilly letting go and having her body puppeted. That's like channeling, right?
 
GlassMask said:
So the new vote tallying system now has preferential voting. When the next update comes, do you want to try that option.
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Hmmm, not sure. Approval Voting removes most of the weaknesses of FPTP without added complexity.
Perhaps when we do your next Ethos choice, since that's a decision where people are likely to want to rank their choices rather explicitly.
 
Slyvena said:
Hmmm, not sure. Approval Voting removes most of the weaknesses of FPTP without added complexity.
Perhaps when we do your next Ethos choice, since that's a decision where people are likely to want to rank their choices rather explicitly.
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Well, I think that may come up relatively soon.

Captain Martin: I must confess, I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around this. What is it like, gaining and maintaining multiple Ethae?
Lilly: Well, it's a bit hard to explain. I'm getting expansions, like, all the time. Hells, I got one right before I responded back to Lord Waters. As for gaining Ethos themselves, it's a bit more involved...Hang on. *swats a fly*
Brave Blood goes to Level 4
Boundless Ethos to Tier 6
Lilly: ...Uh oh.
 
Alectai said:
How's the next update humming along BTW?
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Not super good. Got about 4K of unstructured notes.
Australian Schools are starting off the academic year, been back at work and 4+ hours afterward each night this week. Things will settle down now, but I've only been able to sit down for 10 minute blocks and quickly pen out ideas for how to describe certain roll results one piece at a time.
The expanded World Map is a work of art. You'll get a look at Parisi, Loilsv, Scobar and Narisell among other things. Should help you pick whether (and how) you're aiming to hunker down or flee.
 
Ouch, I was worried about that. Probably going to be a good while until we see the next bit then.
 
Like I thought, didn't need to bring home work with me tonight so proper writing could resume. Horray for progress.


In celebration, enjoy this little snippet that will feature at the top of 2.3 before we go back to Lilly.


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While Lira and Molain conspired to claim unrivaled ascendancy over one another. While Kailsii desperately strove to retain its position as their favoured lapdog among other lessers. While Tosliav sought to hide their empire's crumbling from inside itself and elven-kind set about their Great Solution. While the Yaugry sat in her empty kingdom, chasing apotheosis at the top of her soul-wrought tower. While these schemers and a thousand more besides fought on battlefields of soil, future and mind; each thinking themselves the only one worthy.

While great magics clashed and priceless resources were expended, titanic struggles for supremacy over enemies real and imagined.

All these efforts and many more amounted to less than nothing, all an utter waste; for in this time not a single eye turned its gaze onto the only place that truly mattered.

Humanity had more than enough time to save themselves, but so preoccupied were they in yesterday's wars, none perceived that the end fast approached. Instead, in the isolated community of Harmuph, it would all fall upon the shoulders of a single young girl.

Where a weaker soul would crumple, she stood strong. Where the coward would run, she was brave. Where misfortune could twist a heart cruel, she chose kindness.

In a world so dark, humanity's only hope was brighter than they deserved.

But time ran thin,
…and she was not ready.
 
So I've been sitting on this speculation for about a day now and I might as well post it, even if it is being scattershot. It definitely for a fact scattershot and is mostly just my musing/rambling on what Legend could be that started from the thought that Striker could gain Legend as a source.

Just as I'm getting ready to post this, I kinda had had an epiphany and I gained a more coherent idea about what the Legend source could be, as you might be able to tell.

I feel like I might super off base, but I kinda feel like the Striker ethos might develop a Legend as a secondary source. Especially since the main thing I'm basing this off is the fact that
Slyvena said:
[Striker] (Lesser): (Pithe)
The application of force is far more than simply being faster, stronger or smarter. There are ways that creation wishes us to move, methods of offense and defence that it favours. The Striker listens to the cumulative tradition of all those who have drawn from the Resonance, their seemingly counterintuitive actions often building to a single devastating climax. Force is pitting your Will and desire against the static and opposing the dynamic. All physical movements are at their foundation actually entirely meta-physical. It is manoeuvring for advantage within this meta-physical realm where all contests are truly decided. The Striker never wastes a single drop of sweat, for even their heartbeat matches the rhythm of fate.
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which seems kinda similar to Marigold's ethos that has Legend as a source.
Slyvena said:
[We all Drown Together] - The Sanguine Ocean (Apotheotic): (Deific)/(Legend)/(Flow)/(Oath) | Unique
113th Generation Bloomling | Flower: Red Rose-Marigold {Transposition}
Your plea has been heard child, rescue is at hand and an exchange is offered. We are all unified beneath the deep maroon ocean. The endless river coursing through all life that is and ever was. Plunge into that endlessly repeating link and draw upon the pulsating rhythmic strength swimming inside all creature's veins long before any Ethos ever touches their skin. There is a cost that must be paid, but it is fair and true. To draw from what is spilt, you will join them in their sacrifice. Drag them into your embrace and breathe from their lungs anew. Accept, Marigold, and the beatings will never hurt again. A small cost now, then no more pain; only the sweet throbbing heat. Blood's Gift, for Blood's Price.
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Legend probably has something to do about the past given what Imugi drew attention to.
Imugi said:
This weight of a time long in the past is Legend right? This is Lilly's super low outer awareness for Legend detecting Legend.
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We took heartstaff as our own in chapter 1.10(I want phrase this better) which seems mildly reminiscent of Marigold's collecting Murder-Concepts(The concept crafting might be application of Deific), Marigold's taking the intent to kill from their blood and transforming it. Also, I just noticed on the character sheet on the heartstaff tooltip that when we bonded to the staff we took something from Dad, which is a probable reason why he dropped in level. So, did we take away his some of his guilt and self esteem from Lilly's dad when we bonded to Heartstaff and does this have any similarity to Marigold's Murder concept collecting. I somewhat doubt it since Marigold didn't treat it with any gravity but that might be it has become a streamlined routine process for her. Additional Also, I just noticed that Marigold has a sub-ability called Vicious Memory. I bet she has some ability to view memory through blood, or something similar. Maybe when she gets attacked? Also also, Origin Seek is an interesting ability name that I think might synergize with Vicious Memory but it's harder to tell.

Furthermore(This paragraph is probably redundant but maybe more focused) we could of channeled Legend when during HS bonding since drawing on the echos of Dad's crafting the heartstaff. It now makes sense to me, why DwtF has Legend since we can get echoes of past from Wood Memory and Legend was added as a source in 1.10 because that was the first time we drew upon the past to have some sort of effect.

Legend might be about a patron trying to uplift you in some way. Petal and Evie trying to make us better(We got Legend on DwtF on 1.10, the chapter we got Eva) which semi fits with [Championed Uplift | 0000-A, 2nd​ Integration Stage Initializer] (Foundational): (Legend) . But if that's the case then why is DwtF Legend and not Evie.

My final thoughts about Legend is that it might be about tapping into a greater whole or tapping into people's intentions/expectations, but that doesn't really seem to fit with the Legend (Foundational) Ethos, or that it might be about having great expectations(though that seems way too loose to actually be true, unless Legend source is more common than I think it is) placed onto you(We know that Martin thinks we could be of historic relevance) and ???. Also Legend might be about cosmic expectation since we've had SH Legend Source Channel since 1.2 which is probably just after our Maw and Special Multivector status got noticed by entities like Flower etc. and it kinda fits with [Chamption Uplift] ethos. Though that doesn't really explain why DwtF has the Legend source.

Actual final thoughts. It is my belief that the Legend source is about in some way shaping/taking/gaining power from the past and/or memory. My theory is that [Dreaming Within the Forest] gained the Legend source in 1.10 because we shaped an echo of the past(wood memory of the heartstaff) into something more. This bares some resemblance to Marigold's Murder-concepts and I think she has the ability to look at memories/echoes from her ability Vicious Memory and/or Origin Seek
Edit: I wish I chose a different time to post this than right after the author posted something.
Post Edit: Why does this editor keep getting rid of my coloring of the font? Also wondering if I should unspoil box my speculation?
 
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Slyvena said:
Like I thought, didn't need to bring home work with me tonight so proper writing could resume. Horray for progress.


In celebration, enjoy this little snippet that will feature at the top of 2.3 before we go back to Lilly.


------------------------------------
While Lira and Molain conspired to claim unrivaled ascendancy over one another. While Kailsii desperately strove to retain its position as their favoured lapdog among other lessers. While Tosliav sought to hide their empire's crumbling from inside itself and elven-kind set about their Great Solution. While the Yaugry sat in her empty kingdom, chasing apotheosis at the top of her soul-wrought tower. While these schemers and a thousand more besides fought on battlefields of soil, future and mind; each thinking themselves the only one worthy.

While great magics clashed and priceless resources were expended, titanic struggles for supremacy over enemies real and imagined.

All these efforts and many more amounted to less than nothing, all an utter waste; for in this time not a single eye turned its gaze onto the only place that truly mattered.

Humanity had more than enough time to save themselves, but so preoccupied were they in yesterday's wars, none perceived that the end fast approached. Instead, in the isolated community of Harmuph, it would all fall upon the shoulders of a single young girl.

Where a weaker soul would crumple, she stood strong. Where the coward would run, she was brave. Where misfortune could twist a heart cruel, she chose kindness.

In a world so dark, humanity's only hope was brighter than they deserved.

But time ran thin,
…and she was not ready.
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So, huh.

Whoever's saying that is saying we're on the right track but also that we're not escalating fast enough in spite of that, huh?

Good to get confirmation though that the Apocalypse isn't going to be solved by a murderhobo though, no matter how grasping their claws and fierce their fangs are. "Everyone already has the tools to save the world, they just won't because they're too focused on past grudges to notice the End on the horizon. Lilly can do it, but she's not ready yet, and we're running out of time"

Huh.

I wonder if the narrator there might tilt the scales in our favor. If they've got an in with the Weavers or are one themselves, they could probably package together something to go in our next Ethos.

Actually, huh, I wonder if we got that prologue because we got our next Ethos Expansion this chapter (From Brave Blood going over the top if my theory on total level-ups being the requirement is correct) and we got a real nice result out of it?
 
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How do people experience Ethos Selection? Do they hear voices trying to sell their Ethos? Is it more like impressions? Does Lilly hear the Ethos blurbs in some fashion is that a quest convention. Lilly in I think 1.4 or 1.5 says something [Cleaver of Fortune] not living up to its promises.
 
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I will say though, something that comes to mind.

That might be a warning sign that we need an Ethos that scales up fast soon. We know we desperately need a Flow Ethos with all we've been getting fucked from the Flow Source in the past, if one pops up here, I think we're going to have to take it even if there'd be things attached to it that make it distasteful (Like being (Inverted) or Apothetoic)

Fortunately, I think we have a strong enough foundation at this point that we can afford to risk a high tier Ethos now?

(And from what the Narrator there is telling us, we're going to have to probably overthrow a lot of old monsters in the course of our Path either way, an (Inverted) Ethos might be necessary to raise the strength needed to do that)
 
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It does seem a little early to tell. 2.3 is likely to have other details about the rest of the world.

Mostly because the Captain probably has an idea about life outside the kingdom, with his daughter being married outside of it.
 
...Hmm. It's unclear whether "But time ran thin, and she wasn't ready" is more a reference to our current circumstances, or more in contrast to the Great Doom that's coming. Oh, make no mistake, this month is going to be crunch-mode, what with Valerie and Waters and arsonists coming after us, but to the Narrator, those barely count as blips for "those who would shape the world". If Humanity got itself sorted for five freaking minutes, they could easily stand toe to toe with what's coming, but putting the hope for the world on Illiterate Lilly...it's a long-shot bet, at the moment.

...I wonder if Lilly has to conquer the world in order to save it.
 
Silverking said:
...Hmm. It's unclear whether "But time ran thin, and she wasn't ready" is more a reference to our current circumstances, or more in contrast to the Great Doom that's coming. Oh, make no mistake, this month is going to be crunch-mode, what with Valerie and Waters and arsonists coming after us, but to the Narrator, those barely count as blips for "those who would shape the world". If Humanity got itself sorted for five freaking minutes, they could easily stand toe to toe with what's coming, but putting the hope for the world on Illiterate Lilly...it's a long-shot bet, at the moment.

...I wonder if Lilly has to conquer the world in order to save it.
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She at least needs to be capable of compelling the Great Powers into shutting up and focusing on the Apocalypse.

While outright conquering the world may or may not be neccessary, she at least needs to have the might needed to crush a coalition, which might as well be the same thing
 
Alectai said:
She at least needs to be capable of compelling the Great Powers into shutting up and focusing on the Apocalypse.

While outright conquering the world may or may not be neccessary, she at least needs to have the might needed to crush a coalition, which might as well be the same thing
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...This reminds me of a scene from the D&D comic Order of the Stick. Granted, Lilly's not at this stage yet, but after a few years I think she may start getting kinda done humoring the unjust.
 
Alectai said:
I will say though, something that comes to mind.

That might be a warning sign that we need an Ethos that scales up fast soon. We know we desperately need a Flow Ethos with all we've been getting fucked from the Flow Source in the past, if one pops up here, I think we're going to have to take it even if there'd be things attached to it that make it distasteful (Like being (Inverted) or Apothetoic)

Fortunately, I think we have a strong enough foundation at this point that we can afford to risk a high tier Ethos now?

(And from what the Narrator there is telling us, we're going to have to probably overthrow a lot of old monsters in the course of our Path either way, an (Inverted) Ethos might be necessary to raise the strength needed to do that)
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i'd argue we really shouldn't be getting an apotheotic or inverted or ascended ethos unless they are really good. The higher exp requirements are kinda killer. Towering and Evie are already exp hogs, we dont need a third exp hog. Especially since I am fairly sure you are right on the requirements to get a new ethos. Its strongly likely about how many level ups are done. Getting one that levels up slowly means we will be much slower at getting new levels and thus new ethos.

And as powerful as Tower and Evie are, I'd argue its DwtF that is currently are most useful ethos. This will change to a fair degree as we level up, but it we ought to be careful about assuming we need a super ethos. Tower is already essentially 6 ascended ethos in a trench coat.
 
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