It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

Storyteller · Apr 3, 2021

Something that might help Valerie out in not being put on the execution block is that the people most strongly affected by all of this is going to get a front row seat to how a Ethos can be malignant/hard to manage from the start. There's really good reason for why we are bracing for impact with Zack.

There is also the fact that Lilly can personally vouch that she has reason to believe that things can tag along with an Ethos. Without revealing Evie even. (Though I think Evie being a thing is probably out of the bag when it comes to the family, who again were the ones with a front row seat. And Lilly can tell them that she knows that Evie could affect her mind - because Evie has done so multiple times albeit in a benevolent manner. Countering Water's probable string puller and of course countering Valerie's orders. I don't think Lilly realized what former Ev'[garble gook] was doing to her. Also of note is that Lilly knows that Evie can affect the Ethos expressions. Which gives nasty possibilities for a malignant force. )

Lilly can say personally that she simply happened to choose Dream of Wood - that on the list was a certain

Foṟ̴͍̇m Fr̵̠̂̓ạ̷̾cture (̶̩̲͒͂A̷̡͆pō̵͕t̵̨̃heoti̶̦͛c):
Whatever has granted you your unique nature to choose additional Ethos in time has also linked you to something otherworldly. It calls and stirs at the edges of your mind. It is magnitude personified, limitless in scope, inhuman in nature. To do anything other than resist any further incursion would likely turn you into something perhaps not even recognizable to friends, family or even yourself. Even considering the option seems to minutely erode part of your self-identity. Still, such power, if only you give it just a little more…

Which we're fairly sure is the dungeon in the woods. The one that has gone wrong but not broken. Because it tried a second time - just a lot more insane. It is also sentient and knows enough about humans to get Lilly's name and know that threatening her family is something that could work.

[D̵̘̹́͝iss̷̝̰̿͌oĺ̷̤̪͑u̷͕͚̓tio̶͕͉͐̀n of ̵̝͆̌ th̴͈̋̒e̷͈͆͌ Se̸̯̺̎l̵̻͙̎f] (Apotheotic): (???)
I s̶͍̮̈c̴͚̩̄͐rea̸̛̠̥͝ḿ̴̧̞! I̷̞͔̔t c̸̺̍la̴͕̓͠ẁ̵̱͝s̷̥̹̾! We̴̱̥͂ ̷̜̫́̿biṫ̵̟͘ͅe!̶̰̀̇ G̴̺̓i̴͖̅͘v̵̡͒̒e̴̡͚͝ y̴̖̝͘ou̷̖͑r̶͚̺̄͝sel̷̗̊f t̴͚͆ȯ̶̯ me Ĺ̸͖̣͘ill̶̩͌y. T̷̹̱͝h̶͙̼̆̕ĕ̶̗̝̆y d̸̟͒́em̴̪͇̈͝a̴̪̿̇n̷͕͂͝d̶̫̤̄̒ it.̷͎͚̊ ̵̝̲̎If y̷͚͒oű̶̢̲ d̷̙̋ỏ̴̰͉n'̸̨̧̎t̴͐͜ c̸͈̭͊h̸̞̤͆̿o̷͕̓os̷̢̚ë̵̡̤́ m̷̡̛̝é̴̯̚ t̵̩͇͂̆han̸̛ͅ I ẁ̸̨͓ḭ̶̥̆͊ll eat̶͚́͠ yò̶̰͔̔u̵̗̽̾ͅr f̴͕̉ȁ̶̹mily̴̯̠̆͒ ẇ̵͍̽hi̷̱͐̂le̵̫̜̓ m̷͔̄á̷̟k̶̮͑̈́ï̵̦̣n̶̹̠̒g̷͉͐ yơ̵̖͖̅u w̸̮̌͘a̵̤͇̎̑tch. You̵̖̜͊̋ wiĺ̵͙̯̄l̶̳͎̏ beg for t̷̖́he p̶̨̓ȓ̷̟̼̆ḯ̸̳̑v̴͔̈́ileg̵̛̟͉e tō̸̙̆ DI̵̧͐Ë̷̼̝́, bư̴̞t ḭ̴̢̈̚n̵͖̍st̴̞͆ead I will r̷͓̀́ȩ̶̓̿m̶̭̠̏ake yoû̴̫̣͛ i̷͑ͅn̸̨̩̈́to a̵̺̥͂ b̶͗͜r̸̪̈̅ọ̵̰͆ken̵̨̝͑͠ p̵̙͔̒ḷ̷̛ă̶͍̠̚y̶̪͗̑thing untī̶͉̩l̵̟͐͝ t̵̟̙̎͛h̴̰̕e en̵̝͊͠d ŏ̵ͅf̸̼̊͑ ̷̞̫̈t̶̯́imë̸̪͝.̸̛̰̠ I am c̴̞̃o̷̹̼̓̄m̵͔̂̄ȋ̶͍̯̄ng for̸̺̂ y̴̤͗̒o̶̜̙͗u, youn̷̮̑͆g b̵̧̈́l̴͙͔̈ooṁ̷̮͙͑lì̸̗ņ̷͇̂ġ̷͔́. The̸̢̩̊͒ F̸̧͎̎a̷̲̣̅͛l̸̢̈́͜ś̸͔e̸͇͖͐̈́ Divine w̷̭̜̌̍i̶͉͍͗ll not̴͕̃͜ p̵͙̍͊rotect̷̫́̒ ̷̛̪̬̾y̴̗̳̓͠õ̵̭̬ų̷̮̉; D̶͉̀is̵̝̊ͅs̷͓̺͐ọ̶̿l̷̫̣̊̋utio̶̹̰͊́n ̶̮̫̿i̵̼͝s you̵͕̰̇̚r on̸̝͊̈ly̷̯͖̎ salv̶̼͉́̚a̵̖͋̃t̸̘̝̎̕i̵̝͌̇o̷̪͛̾n̷̟̈. CH̸̭̜̔͗o̵̲͚͊Ö̷̞́͂sẽ̶̩͔́ ṃ̸͌͜E F̶̜̀E̴̡͘ed m̸̝͛E CH̷̦̀oO̷̧̧͒͝s̸̗̉ė̷͕ mĔ̴̼̟̍ F̸̪̗̉E̷̱̜̿̚e̴͕̾d̸̟̟̓͛ mÈ̴̲̖ C̴̪̍͝HoOș̵͇̇́e̵̥̖͑̓ m̴̝̿Ȩ̴̘͐ FĒ̶͙̬ed m̵̄ͅE! T̸̹͂́ͅỏ̴̟͔̅g̸̯̓é̷͎̿th̴̫̣̏̏e̴͍̤̅̊r̴̡̙͑ we shą̸̈́l̴̩͉̋l̸̻͂ f̵̱̅͜eḁ̷̄s̷͍̭͊t ẁ̸̰̋i̶͙͒͝ͅt̵̡̊hoȕ̶̢t en̵͚͋̍d̵̦̏!

So - Lilly knows its a thing that can happen. Which means she can ask someone to imagine something more subtle and smarter than a literally insane dungeon.

There is definitely a path forward to explain how Valerie happened. A thirteen year old chose her Ethos - and there was rot hidden inside it. Something clever enough to slip through how the world is supposed to work. And then it got to work whispering. A little hint here, a little encouragement there. Because Valerie's power effects the mind including her own. And a 13 year old is so easy to manipulate.

Edit: I have no idea how one would even start to word this to the Captain or the family though.

Probably something along the lines of
1. Not sure how to kill Valerie yet.
2. Also - an entity appeared out of her during the fight. And Lilly has a suspicion that it had stolen in through Valerie's ethos.
3. Since Lilly is fairly sure that the dungeon in the Woods tried to do the same thing to her - because it tried to do it twice now.

sheep-dodger · Apr 3, 2021

Storyteller said:
Which we're fairly sure is the dungeon in the woods. The one that has gone wrong but not broken. Because it tried a second time - just a lot more insane. It is also sentient and knows enough about humans to get Lilly's name and know that threatening her family is something that could work.

the dungeon in the woods is a Foundational Ethos that's called [Rapid Iterator].
It might or might not have been affected by Colossi, but it's not [Form Fracture], as Foundational Ethea aren't meant for personal use and personal Ethea don't have the tools of a Foundational Ethos.

Storyteller · Apr 3, 2021

sheep-dodger said:
the dungeon in the woods is a Foundational Ethos that's called [Rapid Iterator].
It might or might not have been affected by Colossi, but it's not [Form Fracture], as Foundational Ethea aren't meant for personal use and personal Ethea don't have the tools of a Foundational Ethos.

Ah.

In which case it's either two different things that tried to get into Lilly's head - or the same one that is very very mad that she didn't choose it. Also it thinks that Lilly could feed it if she chose it.

But she definitely has evidence and experience to put behind a statement of:

"I think that effectively we are dealing with a girl who essentially had a malignant Flow effect done to her." Which as Flow effects as I recall are Tithe'd for a reason... This is a setting that does has mind control as a thing exists as I understand it.

Also - another reason to hurry in trying to get the family de-"Stop"ped. We still have the saboteur in the wings. And the picked guard protecting against assassination/arson is dead.

Edifier · Apr 3, 2021

Oh right. Sooo, any chance that the assassins sent to burn down Lilly's house will arrive while she's in the middle of healing her family?

You know Lilly's new ethos, one of its intended uses would be to make the captured spy turn sides. Talk to him all friendly-like, reveal spooky truths, flip his allegiance without him even noticing.
How valuable would a double agent be?

Razzocnor · Apr 3, 2021

Hmm, I did get {Bedrock}'s full name wrong. Still, I can't help but notice that we do have a number of compatible Ethea.

Overall Goal: {Dream}+{Bedrock}+{Shine} = Global dream-world with psychiatric help and personal life-coaches, administrated by Lilly&Co. Solve all your psychological issues in your sleep!
Add in {Brave Blood} and we add stress release in the form of Shonen-esque hot-blooded battle tournaments, complete with glowing battle auras.

I will still advocate that we should avoid using {Shine} for outright mind control or full-fledged personality alteration. It would probably be traumatic for Lilly to do so, sounds distressingly like becoming the monsters we wish to fight, feels a bit like it might start making {Shine} go low-sync from misuse, and besides, Lilly probably wouldn't be very good at it.

Edifier · Apr 3, 2021

Razzocnor said:
, feels a bit like it might start making {Shine} go low-sync from misuse,

[Shine] has the bit about changing even the vilest being into a good one. So I think the opposite is true. That it would add sync.

Slyvena said:
Sway the most despicable back toward the light. Take your small flickering candle of love; set the world ablaze.

I think your worries about it are unfounded. Lilly's one of the best, hardiest, and smartest people there is. If anyone could use it both to its full potential and towards good ends it's her.

actuallynotanegg · Apr 4, 2021

I think it's quite curious that Valerie somehow got her ethos selection hijacked by Abby. My guess is that since the Maw is expanding, it's managed to kill a bunch of the divine, which is messing with Ethea selection. Perhaps Valerie got auctioned off to a Weaver that ended up getting munched, and Abby took over the link? Then again, all of that is presuming that Abby is part of the maw anyways, which might not be true. I really want to get some more insight into all this cosmic lore stuff. I mean, what even is the Maw?

I really hope when we start really scaling up there, the Concord can help us out a bit. Although the Maw would probably count as an outside context problem. The more I think about it, the more I think concordance itself is a construct like flow, perhaps only bound to the Melange Layer, or something like that.

Slyvena · Apr 4, 2021

Interlude 2.2 - - - - Paved with Good Intentions : Part 2
2 Days Later, Early morning.

-is to mix what cannot be with what is desired and in the willing of such, make it so-

It was too good to be true. But, it was real! Valerie had to constantly keep pinching herself, it had been two days but she still worried that this was all some fantastical dream.

Aboleath, Abby (he didn't like that, so she kept that nickname to herself); a friend and confidant delivered from nowhere, come to turn her whole life around for the better. It was something out a story like those painted on her walls, it couldn't actually happen to her.

But it had. Oh sweet Aurora it actually had!

And her joy knew no bounds at the world of possibility Aboleath now opened up for her.

Of course, that was if she didn't fail at this incredibly vital step.

-there really is no more preparation that can be done. You have mastered the arts of double-think and ex-nihilo conceptualization, it is time to bind the outward Vow.

Valerie stood in her night-clothes in the centre of her vast bedroom, holding the broken doll she had hidden for seven years.

Even when she'd been six, Valerie had understood that a noble family did not fix things; you bought something new, always. So when she had snagged Persephone's armpit on a table's jagged edge and torn the poor doll's arm half off, she had stifled her screams and cries. If she had told her parents, she'd have never seen Persephone again.

It had been very hard to actually hold onto the broken toy. In those early years, her brothers and sisters still lived at the manor and the servants were far less relaxed around her, more eager to report any irregularity to her parents. But she had a keen eye, and knew what days different things were cleaned around the estate. So Persephone had wandered quite some distance behind urns, under quilts and sometimes even inside bushes over the years.

Time passed, and with the addition of a couple low-born confidants, the task became trivial. Valerie didn't play with dolls anymore, but Persephone had come to mean something different in the intervening years. A small meaningless act of rebellion, the only kind she could actually commit, a secret statement of individuality surrounded by an ocean of expectation. If anything, becoming the disappointment of her family had only intensified her attachment to the doll as a symbol of her dogged persistence. It would never change anything, but it helped Valerie feel more like herself, less like some thing owned by her parents.

'Except that's not true anymore,' Valerie reminded herself, 'Persephone actually will change things.'

Valerie? You are listening to me right? It is time to begin.

Valerie swallowed, her throat suddenly feeling tight and dry. Butterflies swam in her tummy as she squared her shoulders and stared into Persephone's eyes. No time for cowardice now, act like a Nireile.

Okay Aboleath, I'm starting.

You can do this Valerie, I believe in you.

Dissociating her thoughts, Valerie reached into the realm of pure ideas that Aboleath had begun to show her. Remaining as both herself and no-one at all, she resisted the now familiar tugging to become one with all knowledge and possibility, instead searching for the singular aspect of her desire. It was impossible to stay here for anything longer than the length of a breath; as her tether to her own identity grew weaker, running out of time, Valerie finally found it.

Now, for the part she had never done before. Her and Abby had practiced finding an Idea dozens of times, she had nearly become lost in those early delves, but quickly learned how to retreat back to the Current-Real. Now was the real test though, if she could extend an Idea outside of herself into an object that held immense personal weight to her, it would be a foothold from which to exponentially grow her influence to that of a whole country. She'd have a future. She'd be important. She'd be someone.

Or, when she pulled, the Idea would drag her in instead of her drawing it out…

Valerie nearly baulked, almost fleeing back to herself. But after a moment to steel her Will, she S̴poke̴.

"Mẽ̷̻n̸͎͆d."

Like ants under the skin, slicing thin layers off as they moved and burrowed beneath. Ice so cold that it burned. To forget oneself completely in an instant and then be whole again just as suddenly. Valerie had the sensation of something immense and profound passing through her, and then she witnessed a miracle.

Persephone vibrated ever so softly, and then, almost too subtle to even notice, threads restitched and gold filagree unbent and the small rubies long since scattered and lost between the cracks in the floor's tiles all those years ago reappeared. The doll was not only repaired, but as perfect as the day Valerie first held it.

Valerie swooned, falling back onto her butt from pure heady relief and joy.

'Well done Valerie.' Aboleath spoke with pride, 'The Outward Vow is solidified, it shall be orders of magnitude easier from now on.'

Valerie barely noticed Abby speaking, simply cradling Persephone in her arms, crying thick streams of happy tears. The realm of Infinite Possibility lingered ever so much closer now, a friendly and intimate thing rather than the chasm of danger and potential insanity it had previously embodied.

It wasn't a dream. It was all real.

She'd done it. Valerie was going to help her whole nation, her and Aboleath could do almost anything given enough time.

She was going to be someone. Her parents would love her again. Her siblings would write to her. House Nireile would say her name proudly, not sweep her under the rug. She belonged.

Her tears were getting everywhere, but Valerie couldn't stop. She held Persephone up in her arms and danced across the open floor of her bedroom, marveling at the subtle glints and sparkles the long-lost gems now reflected off the dawn's light shining through them as she spun in circles. Tomorrow, everything would be different.

Her smile was genuine and wide.

She was just so happy.

actuallynotanegg · Apr 4, 2021

This is...really sad honestly.

And boy am I glad we got the one not-evil being for our first "spirit" ethos. The Maw kinda did us a solid there.

Thebigpieman · Apr 4, 2021

And then Valerie's life went from tolerable to fury road didn't it.

Serve · Apr 4, 2021

Dang this is some serious feels train right now. Really hope Valerie comes out of the tree intact and sane.

Kymecho · Apr 4, 2021

Slyvena said:
Tomorrow, everything would be different.

Her smile was genuine and wide.

She was just so happy.

If Part 2 hurts this much, Part 3 is going to be absolutely devastating.

It only took Aboleath 2 days to coach Valerie through her first command? Looks like he wanted get moving fast. So he could be an excellent teacher, or she has natural talent, or just lots of free time unobserved to learn. Probably not that last one. My best guess is he was doing some adjustments to Valerie's soul "under the hood" like Evie did to make Lilly a Foundational Ethos recipient.

Silverking · Apr 4, 2021

...Well, now we have a better idea of how Oaths work. There exists the Realm of Form, the land of all ideas and conceptualizations. Freeform Oaths are able to take a specific idea from the Realm and create a space to make it manifest. The main purpose of an Oath Ethos, seemingly, is to act as a bit of a path with guardrails leading to a specific idea for retrieval. Follow the path into the Realm, pick up the idea, and bring it back to the "safe space" that you've prepared in the Current-Real. The trick with Inverted Oaths is that they have to reach into the Realm without any guardrails or safety nets, but in exchange are able to grab whatever idea they fancy and bring it fully into the real world without any of the constraints or restrictions they normally have.

Now, I have to think that even if we don't go down the Inverted path (and I believe the interlude is going to show why we shouldn't), Oath and [Dream within a Forest] are going to make such music together.

Imugi · Apr 4, 2021

Ahh, Valerie doesn't have an Ethos. Her powers comes from what Aboleath taught her, and the consumed Deific fragments. Or maybe she hasn't consumed any fragments, the only nearby fragments being Lilly and her mother which they were heading towards.

Storyteller · Apr 4, 2021

Imugi said:
Aw, Valerie doesn't have an Ethos. Her powers comes from what Aboleath taught her, and the consumed Deific fragments.

I think you're right. Aboleath just started talking to Valerie. No selection.

Which makes me curious as to whether Valerie still has the powers she was previously using given that Aboleth was kicked off the plane.

Kymecho · Apr 4, 2021

Other thoughts: Lilly mentioned {The Heat} might have made the difference when stopping Valerie in 2.5. [Resolved in Flame] was also offered in 2.4.
Was the idea that Lilly could stop Valerie from regenerating by melting her away or burning her to ashes? Brutal.

Hard to tell at the moment, but it's possible Aboleath's presence and/or modifications were letting Valerie skip ahead to this:

Slyvena said:
Oath: |Dedication|
- Increasing flexibility within Soul. Affect non-humans more easily, leave soul-effects residing latently in material or immaterial spaces.

Maybe Aboleath was hyperspecializing in Oath, such that their objectives focused on boosting Valerie's stats through Deific fragment consummation past reality-warping, into reality-breaking?

Also, 2.3 gives us this about Inverted Oath users:

Slyvena said:
They also tend to become obsessed with self-modification, eventually binding themselves into a mess of Oaths so tangled that their soul withers away onto nothing.

Seems like that tendency might be responsible for 2.5 Valerie's parts regrowing.

Edifier · Apr 4, 2021

Slyvena said:
[Dream within the Forest]: Approaching Milestone Expansion (Will influence Lvl 5)
[ ] [DwtFAME] I embrace the connection between all things. (winning vote)
[ ] [DwtFAME] I embrace the primal and deep parts of myself.
[ ] [DwtFAME] I embrace the path of restoration and heritage.
[ ] [DwtFAME] I embrace our twin nature.
[ ] [DwtFAME] I embrace that which hides beneath the waking world.
[ ] [DwtFAME] The Dream should not be pruned, I grant it unrestrained growth.
[ ] [DwtFAME] Write In:
/\ (You cannot simply state an overly specific thing for a Write In, it must be a broad abstract concept or theme intimately connected to the current expression of the Dream. I won't disqualify a too specific winner, but I will broaden its scope. For example, "I wish to defend myself better" is way too specific and would become "I embrace the vicious struggle to thrive" at minimum.)

Aaaaactually! This sounds like there are MANY potential destinations for every ethos. And the one who decides the destination is Lilly. At the 5th expansion of an Ethos.
Meaning we can key every Ethos we get into the connection theme of [Dream]

Slyvena said:
Birthing the Divine: It wouldn't show immediate results and I was going to get in so much trouble for this, but the first thing I set about doing was…
[ ] [BtD] Uniting the Source Wells into the deeper Manifold.
[ ] [BtD] Perfecting the gravitas absorption lines.
[ ] [BtD] Removing Melange-layer human limiters.
[ ] [BtD] Making her compatible with 'Foundational Integration Vectors', if she could manage to unlock even one she'd be incredible.
[ ] [BtD] Trying to repurpose Maw-bits into more placid components.
[ ] [BtD] Trying to open up more pinholes for additional possessions.
[ ] [BtD] Unsupressing her meta-cognition.
[ ] [BtD] Raising her more mundane magics into something mildly transcendent.
[ ] [BtD] Decoupling her from the Tapestry and 'physics'.
[ ] [BtD] Flagging her as an acceptable recipient for 'Inverted Integration Vectors', Manoth's pet project.
[ ] [BtD] …Fuck it. I just dumped a whole bunch of mutative potential energy in. She'd either die or attain a measure of Divinity on the spot.
{ } [BtD] I decided I shouldn't mess with her fundamental nature without consent. Pffft, how boring!

From this list, I think Valerie has her Melange-layer human limiters removed.

Btw how many of these do you think Valerie got...
And how about Lilly herself? She has the Maw repurposed and foundational vecotr. Could she get more, however?

Simon_Jester · Apr 4, 2021

Imugi said:
Aw, Valerie doesn't have an Ethos. Her powers comes from what Aboleath taught her, and the consumed Deific fragments.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Valerie does have an Ethos, because normal people can't do that. If you don't have an Ethos that lets you access Oath as a source of power, you can't learn to do stuff with Oath. You can't even perceive Oath, or the realm of Forms (?) it lets Oath-users access. You don't even notice it, let alone get to swim in it like an ocean and use it to mend your favorite doll.

Remember, if what Valerie does wasn't connected to an Ethos, then other people could learn to do it.

It seems likely to me that Aboleth came along to Valerie with the [Will Winnower] Ethos, or with whatever that Ethos was before it inverted somehow.

Aboleth taught Valerie to use that Ethos effectively, guiding her past some of the difficult initial steps- not really different from what, uh... Hunky Militia Trainer Guy, I forget his name, did for Lilly, by showing her how to do things with her abilities that she didn't know she could

But if Valerie didn't have an Oath Ethos of some kind- and a versatile, powerful one that could command inanimate objects from the very beginning- she wouldn't have been able to do that.

Storyteller said:
I think you're right. Aboleath just started talking to Valerie. No selection.

I disagree. I think the selection occurred "off-camera" because @Slyvena isn't writing Valerie's biography here. We already know what Ethos Valerie picked, and it's not hard to guess why, because it really is an amazingly powerful Ethos and Aboleth wouldn't have had to work hard at all to sell Valerie on it beyond the level of just explaining what it can do.

Shit, we'd probably have picked [Will Winnower] if it didn't come with some kind of obviously Horrifyingly Wrong creepy evilness. it is super broken, and apparently it came super broken right out of the box.

The point of these omakes is to illustrate the pivotal moments in Valerie's "start of darkness." The good intentions that paved her road to Hell. Her choice of [Will Winnower] was not, as such, one of these moments- would not make a very compelling scene.

Valerie was probably offered a selection of Ethoi, went through a process sort of like Lilly's ("[Service to Man]? What is this shit? Bleh, no, lame, oh hey this one's super awesome... wait, wow, this is super broken. WANT!") The scene would not serve the narrative purpose of establishing how Valerie's initial "is basically a good girl, maybe even better than you'd expect for a child of her social class" state expressed itself, and how that all went horribly wrong.

By contrast, this scene serves that process admirably. Because what does it do? It establishes, in a compact form:
1) That the first thing Valerie did with her power was not to lash out at other people, it was to mend her childhood favorite toy that had been broken and hidden in a very symbolic way for so long.
2) That Aboleth was specifically training and coaching her in the use of this power, and began with a seemingly innocuous act, probably so as to build Valerie's trust.
3) That Valerie had great ambitions for good things that she could do with this power.

Which makes me curious as to whether Valerie still has the powers she was previously using given that Aboleth was kicked off the plane.

That is admittedly a good question- it's likely that at least SOME of her powers were in some way connected to Aboleth and that she is permanently diminished by its absence.

FunkyEntropy · Apr 4, 2021

Imugi said:
Ahh, Valerie doesn't have an Ethos. Her powers comes from what Aboleath taught her, and the consumed Deific fragments. Or maybe she hasn't consumed any fragments, the only nearby fragments being Lilly and her mother which they were heading towards.

That was basically my thought as well. IMO we're looking at three possible scenarios:

1) Valerie hasn't actually gotten her ethos yet. Everything we've seen is a result of Aboleath teaching her how to hack reality. Basically Aboleath pulled a Kyubie and Valerie got screwed by the lies of omission. The wind deflection power we saw in our fight with her is just a creative use of the Power Word XYZ Aboleath taught her.

2) Valerie got her ethos offscreen and Aboleath is, agian, pulling a Kyubie and screwing her over by glossing over the fine print while training her how to really munchkin an OP ethos. Wind deflection is just a creative use of the existing power.

3) Aboleath taught Valerie how to hack reality and she got her actual ethos - that wind deflecting thing - later. Given that wind deflection is a pretty divergent power from what we're assuming her Power Word XYZ can do, this is simplest explanation. OTOH ethos seem to be bullshit that run off a concept more than "does this one thing" so you can reconcile it by just saying that players don't actually get what concept her power is actually running off of.

Edifier · Apr 4, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
Nah, I'm pretty sure Valerie does have an Ethos, because normal people can't do that. If you don't have an Ethos that lets you access Oath as a source of power, you can't learn to do stuff with Oath. You can't even perceive Oath, or the realm of Forms (?) it lets Oath-users access. You don't even notice it, let alone get to swim in it like an ocean and use it to mend your favorite doll.

I'd say Aboleth messed with Valeries soul. Removed Melange-layer human limiters, to allow her to do inhuman things like entering what sounded like concordance space.
Or alternatively it could have been decoupling her from the Tapestry and 'physics'. I say this from the mention of what sounded like how fixing the bear sounded like Tension from concordance.
And I think unsupressing meta-cognition can mean being able to perceive all the sources.
Or raising her more mundane magics into something mildly transcendent. Everyone has access to Concordance and mana naturally. So it could have been an upgrade of this and teaching how to reach out.

All of these things are modifications to Lilly's soul Eevie could do. And some of which she did. One of them was repurpousing the Maw, another was making Lilly a receptor to Foundational Vectors.
Yeah, those 2 are what Eevie managed to do. Since Slyvana rolled a 1d4 to see how many she would go for. Rolled a 2.

And Aboleth is a creature much like Evie. Meaning he could give similar upgrades to Valerie.

Simon_Jester said:
We already know what Ethos Valerie picked,

PS [Will Winnower] Was not coined by Slyvana. It was coined by Silverking. So no. We do not have her ethos name.

Kymecho · Apr 4, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
it's likely that at least SOME of her powers were in some way connected to Aboleth and that she is permanently diminished by its absence.

Typical RPG conventions. You beat the antagonist and when you recruit them, their stats are way lower than their earlier party-wiping shenanigans.

I'm still stunned at this part: "practiced finding an Idea dozens of times" in 2 days. 2 days to win the trust of a reasonably intelligent girl, then get her working away at developing powers that could backfire and risk her life and soul, when there isn't an observable crisis situation at hand to force cooperation.

Valerie must have been just as desperate, if not more, than 1.1 Lilly for a way forward in life. Powerless, isolated from her family, separated from the Help by her status. Some honeyed words, a sympathetic ear, and Aboleath basically had her.

Edifier · Apr 4, 2021

Her power sounds a lot more like high Fracture and Tension imo.
And we know that Senues, Water's Concordance minion, can make your own attacks turn on you.

I'm starting to think more and more that Valerie is a form of causality alteration and overwriting in the form of Concordance rather than Oath. At least that is what I think Abby is teaching her.

Would that explain why Lilly's Sample Space couldn't simulate Valerie's magic? Cause it pulled from the same source and they were active alterations of the concord.
Could be deific as well. Since what Abby's teachings look like to me is breaking human limits.

Simon_Jester · Apr 4, 2021

Kymecho said:
Typical RPG conventions. You beat the antagonist and when you recruit them, their stats are way lower than their earlier party-wiping shenanigans.

I'm still stunned at this part: "practiced finding an Idea dozens of times" in 2 days. 2 days to win the trust of a reasonably intelligent girl, then get her working away at developing powers that could backfire and risk her life and soul, when there isn't an observable crisis situation at hand to force cooperation.

Valerie must have been just as desperate, if not more, than 1.1 Lilly for a way forward in life. Powerless, isolated from her family, separated from the Help by her status. Some honeyed words, a sympathetic ear, and Aboleath basically had her.

I mean, Aboleth has a pretty good sales pitch: "Hi, I'm your tutelary spirit and let me show you how your incredibly broken Ethos that you voluntarily chose because you plan to use it to do amazing things!"

Edifier said:
Her power sounds a lot more like high Fracture and Tension imo.
And we know that Senues, Water's Concordance minion, can make your own attacks turn on you.

I'm starting to think more and more that Valerie is a form of causality alteration and overwriting in the form of Concordance rather than Oath. At least that is what I think Abby is teaching her.

Would that explain why Lilly's Sample Space couldn't simulate Valerie's magic? Cause it pulled from the same source and they were active alterations of the concord.
Could be deific as well. Since what Abby's teachings look like to me is breaking human limits.

I don't think this is Concordance as opposed to Oath, because if I remember rightly it sounds a lot more like what Captain Martin told us Oath does.

NedTheNanite · Apr 4, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
That is admittedly a good question- it's likely that at least SOME of her powers were in some way connected to Aboleth and that she is permanently diminished by its absence.

Kymecho said:
Typical RPG conventions. You beat the antagonist and when you recruit them, their stats are way lower than their earlier party-wiping shenanigans.

I'd imagine the biggest limiter on Valerie's power post-heal is going to be herself. I doubt she'll be too interested in making use of the power she likely associates with the horrible stuff she did once she regains her memories and conscience. (At least I hope so, cause if she doesn't feel bad then that means she's probably not gonna get the chance to be our ally.) So I imagine the main character arc Lily will go through with her will be helping her come to her terms with her power, and eventually she'll be back to being the juggernaut she was last update.

You know thinking about it Lilly's gonna end up with quite the little following of similarly aged girls who look up to her for saving them following her around soon. She already has Myah, is probably gonna get Valerie, and hopefully will get Kaymie in her party soon too. I think Marigold will be a bit too old to join that group though, maybe she'll be more like the group's big sister.

Storyteller · Apr 4, 2021

Simon_Jester said:
Shit, we'd probably have picked [Will Winnower] if it didn't come with some kind of obviously Horrifyingly Wrong creepy evilness. it is super broken, and apparently it came super broken right out of the box.

No that's the thing.

[Will Winnower] has never been stated by our QM. It was a name someone else came up for what Valerie was doing.

And specifically - we saw in the first part of the interlude trilogy -

Slyvena said:
'Sigh,' Valerie let out a long breath, 'Eventually I'll be married and lack even this little freedom. Hmm, at least I won't have to see Thomas learn that he should forget about me. This really is as good as it will ever ge-'

Hello Valerie.

Blue is Aboleath's dialogue in the same way that Pink is Evie. Note that Valerie absolutely did not pick an Ethos prior to Aboleth talking to her. It/he did not sneak in the same way.

Slyvena said:
Aboleath, Abby (he didn't like that, so she kept that nickname to herself); a friend and confidant delivered from nowhere, come to turn her whole life around for the better. It was something out a story like those painted on her walls, it couldn't actually happen to her.

But it had. Oh sweet Aurora it actually had!

And her joy knew no bounds at the world of possibility Aboleath now opened up for her.

And Aboleath is the one that Valerie sees as showing her how to do things.

It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

Trusted within thoughts.

Trusted within thoughts.

I don't like pie.

I've got this, I think.

Trusted within thoughts.

Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy

Trusted within thoughts.

Trusted within thoughts.