I don't really get the "you need three days or else we'll be weak" write-in since that just feels like a lie since this guy should know about our locus and therefore should know if moving too far away from it has the chance to weaken us if he really wants to use us. Cause I really doubt trying to lie or being wrong about our own powers will get us any respect or our requested three days. Better to just ask for time outright instead of trying to pretend he has to do it.

Lilly's ignorance and Petal's obtuseness are working for her here: as far as we can tell, we really do have to visit our locus or we'll be depowered/dead. (Of course, we'd prefer not to outright tell Waters about the locus, so half the votes at least try to be less on-point at first.) If you're convinced that this is a lie, then show us the evidence; given what we know, I say it's truthful enough.

Visiting the locus in the middle of a dungeon combat zone might take days or weeks even; 3 days is kind of the minimum we can rely on, and even that is pushing it.

The other loci don't work like that? Well, I bet they can't do what we do either.

...

Still, even though it's not a lie, the default demand does come off as somewhat obstinate, so I urge voters to approval vote for framing it as a dedication to prior duty:
[] [WwaT] Submit, but demand to finish discharging our essential duties to Harumph
-[] We need to destroy the threat still contained in the forest
-[] We owe favors and follow-up to a variety of people, and need to discharge them
-[] We think that finishing these tasks would render our ethos more reliable, improving our effectiveness after leaving
-[] Our family has become a target; we want to bring them along as camp followers when we leave
 
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2.1 Vote
Voting is now closed.

Task: CupiG
[X][CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters. No. of Votes: 26
(I'd be willing to add the Write ins if one got something close to at least 50% support within the 26, none came close enough.
Task: Wwat
[X][WwaT] Submit No. of Votes: 24
-[X][WwaT] But demand time. You need 3 days to finish up your business. If you go too soon, you will be near powerless going too far away from these forests. Also attempt to secure the Lord's 'word as bond' that he will return you safely home at mission's end. No. of Votes: 8
-[X][WwaT] Plot to escape. No. of Votes: 11
/\ Demanding time got enough support that Lilly will attempt it if the situation seems right. If that goes well there may be a chance to consider not needing to plot to escape. This is of course assuming backing Captain Martin falls through.
Task: BW
[X][BW] 60% Normal, 20% Evie, 20% Tower No. of Votes: 10
Task: EvieLVL

[X][EvieLVL] A fun thing demons sometimes do… No. of Votes: 13
Task: NIV

[X][NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up) No. of Votes: 28
/\ Maybe I shouldn't tell you when interludes are about to run out of time.



@Slyvena Do we know whether our nation can project force into the air?
There are certainly people who could fly she knows of, but no one has ever zipped overhead or anything.



On {Cessation Rivet}:
Ya'll probably want to tone down the Hype of {Cessation Rivet}. If it is not clearly and directly slowing things down, you probably can't do it.
Isolating and segregating effects from the environment is difficult to start with (Essence) and gets significantly harder when factors like dealing with large forces or dynamic frames of reference become involved.
It's not impossible, but fixing the relative-lock to anything other than the surrounding geographic region already ups the difficulty to a pretty insane level. Nearby airships or hyper-dense meta-materials would be suitable easy alternate anchors.
The mechanism by which it zeros momentum is mostly driven by dumping it into something suitably huge enough that it looks like everything just stops (so usually just the ground beneath you). (It also bleeds a fair bit into Essence itself, but that is a force-multiplier that still needs something real to multiply off of).
Using it to do something like accelerate yourself relative to the surroundings by limiting yourself to a much smaller reference-frame (like a high speed projectile nearby) would be very difficult.
Then you've got all kinds of things like time for the effect to propagate, saturation, resistances, maximum forces that can be applied both proportionally and total.

It's going to get a lot of use, but almost always as a stick/slow field of variable size and shape rather than inertial-leapfrogging munchkinry.

Actually given that these notes are usually IC does this mean Lilly knows all this meaning she now knows Flower is a thing?
I stretch the IC now and then. No, Lilly doesn't have these sorts of details, you guys are a little bit ahead of the curve than her thanks to things like Evie interludes. So Lilly is aware of the connection to the [Tower] but not further details.
Thanks for corrections too. I don't bother to spellcheck the excel comments... which in retrospect is not necessarily wise.

There are some things that are considered fairly universally attractive, like symmetry and clear skin. Lots of other things are culturally subjective, though.
You guys have the right idea. For the purposes of this story, beauty is itself a meta-physical concept and it is possible to increase it without having to change physically. You just look... better. A Flow Ethos would make people concentrate on your best features, Essence Ethos just makes the meta-physical concept of beauty latch onto you a little more.

Waters: "So, I never quite apologized for..."
-snip-
Man, this whole thing gave me some major mid-5th Era vibes. ;)

So what was it? The name?
Yeah, in retrospect I don't know why I thought it would seem that way. The info was presented more disorganized at first but it was still pretty bloody clear even in the first draft.
Thanks for corrections.

@Slyvena: will "End of the Second Age" appear as an option next interlude?
Quite likely. I don't really random roll them, I just take events past or present that would be interesting for POVs.

Super unlikely but hey maybe Ladder's "Waters like forwardness, don't be noncommital" advice plays here because what is more forward and committal than opening combat?
I'm glad I wasn't eating or drinking when I read this.

Slyvena said that we happened to unlock both enchantments and artifact creation
Artifact creation is a function of the [Towering Edifice to Heaven]. You do not know enchanting in anything except its most rudimentary forms, but the structures you can directly observe within Artifacts would be excellent guides when trying to further that lesser craft. For you the main advantage of enchantments is they will be far less restrictive in how many you can sustain at any one time.
 
Artifact creation is a function of the [Towering Edifice to Heaven]. You do not know enchanting in anything except its most rudimentary forms, but the structures you can directly observe within Artifacts would be excellent guides when trying to further that lesser craft. For you the main advantage of enchantments is they will be far less restrictive in how many you can sustain at any one time.
What are differences between enchanted items and artifacts, anyway?
 
Preliminary Analysis/Evidence Compilation: "The Plan"

TLDR: "The Plan" is an effort to breed a "divine humanity" through selection pressures within a small, low-tech population. (Best guess of why: to increase divine population without increasing both Angel/Demon power and therefore instability.) The quadrillions of previous baseline humanity may or may not have gone into the Flower.
Man, this whole thing gave me some major mid-5th Era vibes. ;)

This begs the question: if the 5th Era had a post-scarcity society with no involuntary death, where trillions of lives were a drop in the populace, how is it that the 7th era is instead a medieval shithole?

We know that the 6th Era had some sort of turning point decision involving the Melange and "natural creatures":
"No one really talks about it, but every natural creature owes Yalśfreet its life. The Melange only started properly stabilizing as a by-product of his intervention." – Excerpt from 'How we got here, and what should we should do now: Our Proposition, 6th​ Era'

I posit that it was around this point that a developmental ceiling to the post-scarcity form of society was discovered, one that could only be overcome through submerging the mortals into low-level conflict (the "Plan"). The best evidence of this comes from the Foundational Ethos choices:
tweak to keep stress levels within the optimal zone of development.
not trivialize related Vector incentives
rebalance conflict trending too far toward an unscheduled genocide resolution; re-establish status quo through new equalising variables.
introduce specific innovations at required critical points for ongoing stimulation as the Melange Tapestry continues to mature
not to generate synergy cascades and unintentionally disrupt an otherwise stabilized situation
Manoth has agreed to not disrupt the overall plan...Placement preferrable in static environmental conditions not suitable for more subtle progression stimulation.
Place between moderate to large powerbases to encourage healthy conflict.
To what end is this conflict driving humanity? One hint from the Foundational Ethos, and a rather bigger hint from Optimizer!Lilly:
benefits of enhancing mental frameworks
Baseline humans had certainly become several orders of magnitude more powerful since the commencement of the Plan, but it would still be foolish to shape an artefact around one of the girl's mortal concepts. One day the indivine would equal their patrons, but not today.
Humans have become significantly "more powerful", somehow. It's certainly not physical strength. The two obvious hypotheses are:
  1. Their ability to use ethos
  2. The unexpectedly large size of the soul
Either way, the nature of the "Plan" is made clear: conflict in order to force artificial evolution upon the remainder of humanity, so as to eventually turn them into divine-equivalent. (This can be compared to selective breeding of desired traits, but with a cage match to filter out the weak.)

Presumably, baseline-humanity wasn't powerful enough to accomplish the divine's purposes, and so they are breeding a new "divine humanity" in order to... combat stagnation? Serve as a military? Be farmed as divine cattle?

The most likely guess, to me, is to increase the divine population without making both Angels/Demons increasingly powerful (which would lead to increased instability should a conflict occur). Recall: with every angel seems to be birthed an equally powerful infernal, and the population of neutral divines seems, as of yet, comparatively tiny ??? can no longer find the evidence of this. This would explain why the 6th Era quote was at the end of the "Angels/Demons heading toward peace" interlude: it showcased the limits of said peace, and hinted at the new Plan to surpass said limits.

So why the low-tech society with comparatively tiny populace? For one thing, with powerful technology there would be no selection pressure towards personal ethos power--development would go into better guns and warships instead. We may even surmise that the tech level is being kept intentionally low, in order to facilitate said pressures (hopefully, the divine are too distracted to do anything about it once we start R&D). For another, it's more difficult to evolve the traits of a larger population; serious selection pressures would be needed in order to make favored genes traits dominant throughout the population--pressures which would, in the end, probably destabilize the population back to medieval levels regardless.

Once a viable population of "divine humanity" has been established, the selection pressures can be removed, and the species allowed to grow as normal.

Finally, what happened to the quadrillions of baseline, post-scarcity humanity? Two obvious (and not mutually-exclusive) hypotheses:
  1. Some kind of disaster that ended the 5th era
  2. The Flower; it was created as a "boring eternity" (read: heaven) for the remainder of the baseline mortals.
...

Addendum: this is strong evidence that something about ethos (their power level or even the ethos themselves) are inheritable, hence also evidence for the "power is amassed through strong family ethos" hypothesis.

Addendum 2: Lamarckian inheritance is also a strong possibility, given the attention seemingly given to powerful ethos development while alive

Addendum 3: Also a plausible rationale: developing fighters against the Maw. I myself get the impression that the Maw is much newer than the Plan (Evie's monologue; and also, would there really be a calm 6th Era proposal measuring progress in milennia?), but could be.

Addendum 4: Power improvement through gravitas (and conflict, in particular) is additional evidence of the Plan's objectives--assuming that it was designed rather than inherent.
 
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(This can be compared to selective breeding of desired traits, but with a cage match to filter out the weak.)
So a Gu jar then. For those who don't know Gu is an ancient Chinese myth about putting a bunch of poisonous insects like scorpions and spiders into a jar where they kill and consume each other leaving you with one final creature titled a Gu is more poisonous than the sum of its parts along with some curse and grudge stuff.
 
and the population of neutral divines seems, as of yet, comparatively tiny
Can no longer find the evidence of this; only that Evie thinks of Demons and Angels first when considering the divine population.

So a Gu jar then. For those who don't know Gu is an ancient Chinese myth about putting a bunch of poisonous insects like scorpions and spiders into a jar where they kill and consume each other leaving you with one final creature titled a Gu is more poisonous than the sum of its parts along with some curse and grudge stuff.
This is not a "combining powers into one" myth, though, just unnatural selection put in practice (assuming that whatever "divine" traits they're breeding are inheritable similarly to but not necessarily identically to genetics; Flower's demands on Lilly's matrilineal line seem to suggest so).

Humans unnaturally selected dogs to have facial expressions and to be friendly to people; the ones that didn't have these traits tended to be culled. The divines are doing the same to 7th Era humanity, but selecting for power (and maybe soul size) instead. In contrast to the humans' more direct selection methods, the divines' selection process seems to depend on people/populations with less power failing to survive dungeons/external attacks.

I can't imagine this selection process to be particularly efficient (an overrun village tends to eliminate even the more powerful ethos lineages) but then again, the divines have precog and seem to be auctioning off individual integration vectors for chosen times.

...

Oh yeah, this is also strong evidence that something about ethos (their power level or even the ethos themselves) are inheritable, hence also evidence for the "power is amassed through strong family ethos" hypothesis.
 
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/\ Maybe I shouldn't tell you when interludes are about to run out of time.
If you're going to give interludes an expiration date, it's just cruel to delete them without warning. It is not inherently obvious which ones are time-critical, and it's very hard for even the most prudent reasoning from in-character information to provide that.

On the other hand, it would be totally fair to just label the interludes with expiration dates "in the fullness of time, this will expire" without telling us how long!
 
I very much doubt that the Plan revolves around something as boring as genetics. Considering what we've seen just Lilly being able to do and have done to her using just [Dream Within The Forest] I'd propose that changing genetic makeup is a trivial task for Weavers. I'd assume it's something more metaphysical related to people's souls. If you recall the description for [Championed Uplift] stated:
Current projections before widespread 2nd​ Stage Initialisations [of Integration Vectors] can be reliably applied without prior testing; fourteen Millennia.
My assumption is that human souls currently are not strong enough/developed enough to deal with 2nd stages of Integration Vectors.
I'd also argue that the conflict between Angels and Demons is no longer really important to The Plan, one of Evie's interludes mentioned that they both were on the same side now in face of the Maw.
It'd make much more sense to me that the 7th Age started whenever Flower and Colossi/the Maw started fighting. The purpose of humanity in the Melange Layer and The Plan as a whole is most likely to breed new combatants for that conflict and the way there is to strengthen Humanity until they can ascend beyond the Melange Layer and engage in that battle.
 
Fun times ahead I imagine!

Oh boy I hope we get some time to clean up our quest log and social links here, we've just not had a moment to breathe--even if that's been good for Gravitas gain.
 
Imagine if instead of three weeks we'd have taken a four week nap and had come back to Harmuph's countryside completely overrun by the Alphas, with the Watch only slowly pushing back the tide.
 
While genetics certainly inspired the idea, the original post carefully didn't mention them; the only requirement is a vaguely similar form of inheritance.

Lamarckian inheritance is, in fact, a strong possibility, given the divines' apparent interest in developing peoples' ethos while they're still alive.

I get the impression that the Maw is much newer than the Plan (Evie's monologue; but also, would there really be a calm 6th Era proposal, with timescales measured in millennia, of where to go from there), but soldiery against the Maw is also plausible.
 
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Here's an idea, Lord Waters is heading east because Valerie is leaving a bloody mess in her passage southwards and he has to deal with it. The no distant future where Lord Waters or Lilly are both alive, where one kills the other, is because of this. Valerie will take control of Lord Waters and his retinue, then she will head towards Lilly, and they will fight.
 
Here's an idea, Lord Waters is heading east because Valerie is leaving a bloody mess in her passage southwards and he has to deal with it. The no distant future where Lord Waters or Lilly are both alive, where one kills the other, is because of this. Valerie will take control of Lord Waters and his retinue, then she will head towards Lilly, and they will fight.

This doesn't really make sense. If this was about cleaning up Valeries mess, you'd expect them to be going north, where Valerie came from. After all that's how you'd intercept her.
 
This wouldn't be the first time Cleaver of Fortune trolled us (by just giving us the details of how many we would save, without implying how). Now, apparently Lord Waters is Lilly's mortal enemy, and again the reasons are hinted at but left carefully unstated. Concordance might have something in it of the Conflict Drive from Worm--or perhaps it should be called the Gravitas Drive here.

That being said, I don't consider the hypothesis that he's going to fight Valarie particularly plausible, considering that:
  1. To the east is specified to be desert (which doesn't seem to match Valarie's environment) and another polity (a likely target of Waters)
  2. Valarie was apparently headed south for the Silent Sea, putting her likely (though not definitively) to the north of us given the available geography
  3. Abby seemed to detect us due to the extra ethos option, so they're likely now headed for Harumph
 
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Thoughts on Inverted Ethos stuff:

So we now know that an Ethos inverting is thing that is known by the authorities. Maybe this means that someone getting to choose an Inverted Ethos is a new development? Buuuut who knows how the time frames of Weavers and humans even relate to each other. This might be new stuff to the Weavers, but the humans could have been dealing with this for decades or more. (Anyway, RIP Zach.)

Also throwing back to the discussion about government institutions pruning an Ethos into something that can be used for utility or battle, intentionally Inverting someone's Ethos might be a tactic here. Imagine someone with an Ethos related to agriculture turning into someone who can magically salt the earth of enemies. Or a healer so broken by not being able to stop suffering they develop an Ethos to painlessly and quickly kill to stop the suffering.
 
Now, apparently Lord Waters is Lilly's mortal enemy, and again the reasons are hinted at but left carefully unstated.

In my mind, their eventually enmity is not specifically a function of a specific "fated" scenario, but rather the inevitable collision of their characters.

Lilly is a very intelligent, powerful girl who...is unwilling and unable to blindly submit to authority for an extended period of time. She also has a secret that would cause someone like Waters to try and bind to his service forever, kill her to keep her from working for an opposition, or rip out her Core Heart to see if he can steal its power for his own.

Waters is a noble who hasn't been told "No" by someone who didn't have direct authority over him since he was 10. He does not empathize, does not compromise, and when he sees something he wants, he cannot conceive of a world where he doesn't have it.

It doesn't matter if Lilly wholeheartedly agrees to join him, or even if she saves Waters' life at some point. There is no appeasement, no equilibrium, no "Right Words" from the Ladder that will keep a conflict from happening. Lilly will not bend, and Waters won't let go. As the literature majors say, a tragedy is defined as "There was a better way to go, but the character couldn't help themselves."
 
Until this update, I assumed the the Flower only made "nature" themed ethos, and that bloomlings were just Evie's flippant way of refering to the people that took them. But Service to Man doesn't fit with that theme, except vaguely, and our mother is nevertheless a bloomling. Strange.
 
Until this update, I assumed the the Flower only made "nature" themed ethos, and that bloomlings were just Evie's flippant way of refering to the people that took them. But Service to Man doesn't fit with that theme, except vaguely, and our mother is nevertheless a bloomling. Strange.

I'm not sure where the idea came from that the Flower is the only weaver we're getting Ethos from (She certainly didn't provide us Form Fracture). My guess is that a "bloomling" is the name of an inheritor of a matrilineal line that grants fealty to the Flower (by naming your first daughter after a flower via vision) in exchange for increased stats and a REALLY GOOD nature-based Ethos, but only as one option of many. There is even a chance that "Sarah" is as smart as Lilly is (she's able to do Yolun's accounting), but the pressures of society and the divine imperative to make babies forced her down a domestic path.

Likewise, I don't think Zach is going to have all his Ethos choices be Inverted, but there's probably one that's going to seem really matching his mood or ambitions (unless Lilly really goes out of her way to convince him otherwise).
 
I'm not sure where the idea came from that the Flower is the only weaver we're getting Ethos from.
I'm not sure you got the idea that I said that. At any rate, the rest of your theory makes sense. Anyway, since Inverted Ethos are a pet project, I'm guessing that he won't just be given them. Maybe he'll get some normalish Ethos, maybe some different pet projects, maybe indeed just Inverted ones.
 
I'm not sure you got the idea that I said that.

You had said that it didn't seem on theme for the Flower to be the weaver of [Service to Man], and yet Sarah had it anyway. I was saying that Flower probably wasn't the weaver of [Service to Man], but that Sarah got a spread of Ethae from different weavers for her choice, possibly with one extra-special nature-themed one (like Lilly did). It just so happened that Sarah didn't pick the "Flower special" as her Ethos. Apologies if I misinterpreted.
 
Random thought if we get some free time and aren't immediately pressed into another series of battles. But can we use our seer favor to ask her to see if anything interesting happens 12 days from now? Cause if it is Valeria like we suspect then having the Seer be able to give us and the town a heads up would be really great.
 
Random thought if we get some free time and aren't immediately pressed into another series of battles. But can we use our seer favor to ask her to see if anything interesting happens 12 days from now? Cause if it is Valeria like we suspect then having the Seer be able to give us and the town a heads up would be really great.

I suppose we could, but does Lilly have any way to know that Zach's Ethos pick is "premature"? It's not directly on anyone's birthday or anything; maybe it's known to pop up anywhere between the ages of 11 and 13. Also, how do most people know when their Ethos pick is coming up? I mean, Lilly apparently had enough warning for her family to set up the workshop to be the place of transition (that she ended up running away from, but still). Is it 24 hours warning, 3 days? In any case, we managed to bargain for a significant favor from Madame Silva (is it more owed to Yolun or to Lilly?), and it's unclear exactly what her range is, or how specific she can go.
 
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