I suppose we could, but does Lilly have any way to know that Zach's Ethos pick is "premature"? It's not directly on anyone's birthday or anything; maybe it's known to pop up anywhere between the ages of 11 and 13. Also, how do most people know when their Ethos pick is coming up? I mean, Lilly apparently had enough warning for her family to set up the workshop to be the place of transition (that she ended up running away from, but still). Is it 24 hours warning, 3 days? In any case, we managed to bargain for a significant favor from Madame Silva (is it more owed to Yolun or to Lilly?), and it's unclear exactly what her range is, or how specific she can go.
I don't know either I just get the sense if we want to use the favor we're to want to use it soon since it's looking increasingly likely we're going to have to run from town whether it be due to the typical JRPG hometown burning start or having to run away from the nation. So if we don't use the favor before that happens it's basically useless and I don't really have a better idea for what the favor could be used for. So why not use the favor on seeing if anything weird is going to happen since even if it's a wash at we'll probably learn at least how seers work a little which is valuable knowledge for the future.

Lilly might not remember exactly what's weird about Zach's ethos selection besides it maybe being a bit early but she at least as the vague impression that it's important.
 
An in-character question we could (and arguably need to ask, regardless of the 12-day deadline): will our family be safe staying in Harumph if we leave them behind?

If the answer is no, then Lilly could approach Martin and Waters with her concerns, and they may follow-up and even deduce that Harumph is under threat. (But, at the very least, Lilly will take measures to protect her family.)

Also, since the favor is a "large" favor, and might imply multiple questions, we might then follow-up by finding out the exact nature of the threat; even "I can't determine the exact nature" could serve as an alarm bell.
 
Last edited:
When people recieve Ethea
Totally unhelpful spoiler for next chapter: Someone does a somersault.
Title for chapter 2.2 -- "Consent, and other lies."


I suppose we could, but does Lilly have any way to know that Zach's Ethos pick is "premature"? It's not directly on anyone's birthday or anything; maybe it's known to pop up anywhere between the ages of 11 and 13. Also, how do most people know when their Ethos pick is coming up? I mean, Lilly apparently had enough warning for her family to set up the workshop to be the place of transition (that she ended up running away from, but still). Is it 24 hours warning, 3 days?
Receiving an Ethos:
It occurs to me I don't think I've ever covered this 'in story' and maybe not even in the thread.
The average age to gain an Ethos is 12. In this respect Lilly was within the normal band getting hers at 12 and 4 months. I'd say a good 90% are within 11-13, the remaining 10% can stretch quite far though. It doesn't usually have much of an impact on someone's Ethos development as it's what you do in the later more restrictive stages that counts for more than if you gained or lost a few years in the start. You'll note Marcus is scheduled to receive his rather late.

People can feel their Ethos approaching anywhere from days to months in advance, but usually it's about a week (as it was for Lilly). It would be entirely normal if Zach was already aware.




If you're going to give interludes an expiration date, it's just cruel to delete them without warning. It is not inherently obvious which ones are time-critical, and it's very hard for even the most prudent reasoning from in-character information to provide that.
Fair point.
There's a bunch of mandatory interludes that will get told either way, then a bunch that really have no bearing on Lilly save for being fun Lore.
You guys will like 'In Search of my Sister', it might give you an idea of the Theme Arc 2 is currently heading toward.

Random thought if we get some free time and aren't immediately pressed into another series of battles. But can we use our seer favor to ask her to see if anything interesting happens 12 days from now? Cause if it is Valeria like we suspect then having the Seer be able to give us and the town a heads up would be really great.
Regular scrys for incoming dangers are commonplace. But as the Forest showed, they are not infallible.
I'll include a Madam Silva option when you you have a chance to make some non-reactive choices.
 
Last edited:
"So you see, Lilly, the somersault remains an essential move among even the elitest of my elite warbands."

"This is something I never expected."

"Which is precisely the point, Ms, umm..." "Silas" "...Ms Silas! No one expects the knight in shining armor to just somersault the enemy's head off. Why, even my horse can do a somersault, and no one has expected that."

"But Watchman Silas has already sworn her vows onto the next long night and joined us in defence of Harmuph."
Although… maybe this is exactly what you needed, an acceptable way to say no. You'd have thought if anyone would have magics to discern the truth and catch a lie, it would be people like those here, but Captain Martin doesn't seem to think that is a problem.

Everyone is looking at you. You need to answer.

"I totally joined the watch."

"She's lying. How do you explain this, Captain Martin?"

"Please, as if our recruits ever needed to agree to join the watch. This is the standard method of enlistment for our country, after all."


"...See how she already anticipates her superior's needs, without even having technically sworn her vows? Perfect watchman material!"
 
Last edited:
Here's a thought: if Lord Waters tries to quiz us on reciting the Watchman's Oath, we could have Captain Martin give us the answer through our Hear Whispers power.

I'll include a Madam Silva option when you you have a chance to make some non-reactive choices.

...What are these "Non-Reactive Choices" of which you speak? Are you implying there may be times where Lilly's life and livelihood aren't in immediate danger, or where outside forces aren't having a tug-of-war over her? I thought we had put such childish notions behind us, along with play-fighting in the woods and spending time with our like-minded peers. :lol:
 
I hope we get another chance for a training session with Mathew. We're only 50 XP away from leveling up Brave Blood again, which should also trigger yet another Ethos pick. Besides, it'll be good for Lilly to get a handle on what Objective Awareness, Perfect Proprioception, and some of [Bedrock]'s trick can do.

First Training Session Lilly: Alright, coordinating both a shield and mace is tricky, and getting my footwork right will take some getting used to, but hey, everyone's got to start somewhere.

Second Training Session Lilly: Motion and Intent are laid bare before me! I see the steps and know the dance as if I was born to it! My body is a temple, and I am the Goddess of Nature and War!
 
I wouldn't want to train with Mathew to get the level up since he would be able to tell that we did so which is just another point of suspicion in how fast we level up.
 
I wouldn't want to train with Mathew to get the level up since he would be able to tell that we did so which is just another point of suspicion in how fast we level up.

We also literally just helped slay a bunch of wolves. Being in the cusp of another level up isn't that surprising considering that's the fastes way to level up. Though yeah caution may be in order.
 
We also literally just helped slay a bunch of wolves. Being in the cusp of another level up isn't that surprising considering that's the fastes way to level up. Though yeah caution may be in order.
I believe the Watch thinks that us getting knocked out for a 2 day coma was the result of our level up (which is actually true) so us leveling up again so soon would be another factor in being suspicious
 
It's not the level up to be afraid of, it's Mathew noticing the Pithe contracting into a new expression. And not only Mathew, there probably will be other people around if he trains us, who have a great sense for Pithe, they will notice. It is expected that expressions happen every five levels or so. In addition after reaching level five in an Ethos experience resets after every level.
 
Our trust of Mathew has tanked, so training isn't going to happen within a 3 day deadline (though we may, in fact, be ordered to train with a 1 month deadline).

We can probably be more frank with Captain Martin from now on, since he's put himself in a similar boat with his gambit. I'm not sure, however, precisely how frank we can be. If we tell him about multi-ethos, is that an immediate trigger for telling his superiors/tragic statisticing us, no matter how much it screws him over as well?

We still don't know precisely why multi-ethos would be so hunted, which means we should ask Martin some probing questions about ethos and how our nation handles the more powerful ones... followed by worried "what kind of ethos would immediately get someone hunted rather than recruited?", followed by imaginative/fearful inquires "like if someone could steal other peoples ethos? Do people like that really exist?"
 
Last edited:
With the coming addition of gymnastics to Lilly's life, I eagerly anticipate a timeless classic: The Evasive Cartwheel.
Given the opportunity, Captain Martin might be one of Lilly's best shots at immediately actionable information, followed by Yolun and Madam Silva.

Of course, Waters and his posse would have a lot to say as well, but trustworthiness and the power imbalance there would likely be an issue. Also the Thunderdome prophecy makes things even dicier.


Returning to the Captain, Cpt. Martin has tried to withold information from Lilly on at least 2 different occasions, first with the ramifications of her Pithe stamina recharging and then with her Prime Tree. You could also make a case for child endangerment during 1.12, but that's probably a minor thing compared to what could happen later.

On the other hand, if the ruse goes through, Lilly has more weight to throw around (most obviously, she could turn around and burn him by going to Waters), and the promise of wealth and favor hasn't quite been fulfilled (one could argue that the Watch is providing guard services, except that's their job already). His tolerance of Lilly's eavesdropping, stated openness to questions, treatment of Lilly's family, and employment of Yola Malis, a woman, as one of his elites point toward decency.
In fact, the Captain might even have political smarts-he brought Yola along with Waters to meet Lilly, and then made a play for her. Having Yola present gives more legitimate basis to the idea of Lilly's recruitment, and might have even been intended as a lure or reminder to Lilly about a possible career for her.

That being said, I agree with the idea of cautious probing-aside from the trust issue, it gives Lilly and the Captain deniability if investigated.
 
Last edited:
Decided to find and list what is and isn't secret for Lilly. I didn't get specific but is there anything missing, anything to add?
Touched by the Eldritch in that clearing
Multiple Ethos
Expression every level
[Cleaver of Fortune]
Specifics of each Ethos
Continuing to gain Ethos
Father's History
Injuring {True Song}
Evie
Unknown Bloodline
Lilly is a dungeon
Lilly's Core-Heart
Knowledge of what goes on behind the curtains, in regards to [Towering Edifice to Heaven]
[Bedrock]/Essence Shaping
Lilly's intelligence
Lilly's skills
How long Lilly has had her Ethos
Lilly's growth
Lilly's "Essence/Pithe" Ethos
-Recent Expression
-Readings the Loremaster took
--Pithe resonance almost non-existent
--Mana capacity and exchange are below base
--Flawless Auron, in the 99th​ percentile
--Concordance Integration also has zero fractures
--Tension is also equally blank
--Nearest to perfect perceptory faculty
--Pathetic shaping control
-Essence Abilities
--Channel
---Pithe regeneration
--Perception
--Being like a tree
--Wood memory
--"Half-tier healer"
-Pithe Abilities
--{Pulse Surge}
--{True Song}
--{Field Sense}?
{Heartstaff}
{Locus}
-General location but not exact location?
Lilly's long sleep/Coming back from "death"
 
Last edited:
Pretty comprehensive list, but there are one or two tweaks I would add:

  1. Move "Losing or injuring True Song" to Secret (nobody's asked us why we haven't used it, and Lilly hasn't told anyone that it broke)
  2. Add "[Bedrock]/Essence Shaping" to Secret (obviously nobody knows about Bedrock, but considering that the Lore Warden made such a big deal about Lilly NOT having good shaping before, it may cause...discussion if people start comparing notes)
 
So I figured I'd make an ethos just for fun. One sorta similar to cleaver of destiny, but somewhat different theme. Less focused on self stuff and more on outward stuff.

[Crafter of Destinies] (Mythic): (Concordance)

Some man follow fate to a tee. Some choose to defy it. But you, you have the ability to shape destiny. You can kill a butterfly to stop a hurricane. You can transform a farmboy who would have become a mere Guard Captain with to instead become a legendary hero. You can shape the course of destiny, for better or worse. Nations can rise or fall based on your whims. Many will hunt you down for your power. Let them try and find out that fate is not on their side.
 
Does this mean we won't get taken by Waters? Nice!
Ah you got me. You did a fully sick somersault and Lord Waters was like "Woah, that was awesome." and you were like "Let me stay and I'll teach you one day." and he was like "Radical. *fist bump* You got a deal."
What he doesn't know is that the somersault is a deadly art to any other human who attempts it; Consequently, on the day you teach it to him, he will die indirectly by your hand. Thus, the prophecy will be fulfilled.

"So you see, Lilly, the somersault remains an essential move among even the elitest of my elite warbands."

"This is something I never expected."

"Which is precisely the point, Ms, umm..." "Silas" "...Ms Silas! No one expects the knight in shining armor to just somersault the enemy's head off. Why, even my horse can do a somersault, and no one has expected that."
The somersault is a close second behind the Spanish Inquisition for things people don't expect.

[Crafter of Destinies] (Mythic): (Concordance)

Some man follow fate to a tee. Some choose to defy it. But you, you have the ability to shape destiny. You can kill a butterfly to stop a hurricane. You can transform a farmboy who would have become a mere Guard Captain with to instead become a legendary hero. You can shape the course of destiny, for better or worse. Nations can rise or fall based on your whims. Many will hunt you down for your power. Let them try and find out that fate is not on their side.
I like it, here's two non-canon (though not outside the realm of possability) Ethea for ya'll.

[Compounding Interventionist] (Rare): (Concordance)
The weight and expectations placed on a child can shape the form their mind takes. You have been such a child, pressured and constrained by the whims of an uncaring world. But pressure can be overcome, chains can be broken and a prison escaped from. You have a natural sense for finding individuals with untapped potential to influence the world around them, be they an unrealised prodigy or simply a person in the right place and time to enact significant change. More than that, you are able to see past delinquents' failures to spot those who with the right sort of pressure could be shaped into something far greater. Using nothing more than time, you can become the central fixture of any child's existence and motivation for life. Given a decade, you can overthrow a kingdom with a couple well placed whispers, forge a hero by being a shoulder to cry on at the right time, destroy a country by seducing a seemingly unimportant servant. You will need to take great care to cover your tracks, for while the snowballs of change you slowly grow can become unstoppable, they are easily pruned in the beginning.

[By my Blood they Bleed - The Apostle of Oblivion] (Legendary): (Concordance) {Inverted}
Nothing about this life is redeemable. All will one day be dust, but the order of that destruction can be tweaked. Give of your future, give of your happiness, give of your life. For each sacrifice you make, cause a thousand to suffer even greater. You shall lop of your finger to sever their head, you shall doubt your purpose in life as they wallow in suicidal despair. Find those willing to end their own lives, and magnify their pain to rend cities apart in cascading horror. Pain for Pain and Death unto Death. You are the adjudicator of fate, all have been deemed unworthy. Finally all who have wronged you will be gone, all who could wrong you will be gone. Your final act will be to protect yourself from your own betrayal and lay your own corpse down to peaceful eternal rest. If anyone should wish to stop you, their entire bloodline is the bare minimum price.

Bout 5K written for current chapter. Approx 2/3s done I'd say.

Also, a question:
I'm thinking of letting Evie give a simple numerical rating of how useful she thinks each Ethos will be in future selections. But I'm worried that effectively just removes choices by making the better one more obvious and at that point why don't I just only offer good ones anyway. What do people think?
Or perhaps give an idea of what a typical Lvl0 power would look like for that Ethos, so even if it has a low Evie-number people can still decide "But I really like that skill".
 
Also, a question: I'm thinking of letting Evie give a simple numerical rating of how useful she thinks each Ethos will be in future selections. But I'm worried that effectively just removes choices by making the better one more obvious and at that point why don't I just only offer good ones anyway. What do people think?
Or perhaps give an idea of what a typical Lvl0 power would look like for that Ethos, so even if it has a low Evie-number people can still decide "But I really like that skill".
Maybe L0+commentary instead of the rating?
 
So, here's a random, probably inaccurate headcanon.

The phenomenon of "Inverting", as mentioned by Mindstate, is much older than that of Inverted Ethos. An Inverted Ethos provides some or all elements of it. If it ever leaves beta testing stage, it'll be a very useful tool for the Powers that Be.
 
Also, a question: I'm thinking of letting Evie give a simple numerical rating of how useful she thinks each Ethos will be in future selections. But I'm worried that effectively just removes choices by making the better one more obvious and at that point why don't I just only offer good ones anyway. What do people think?
Or perhaps give an idea of what a typical Lvl0 power would look like for that Ethos, so even if it has a low Evie-number people can still decide "But I really like that skill".
I'd prefer not to have a rating, but the sample power thing could work.
 
Personally, I like the Level 0 power idea going with the numerical rating, especially if Evie's numbering factors in stuff like "higher chance of knocking Lilly out" or "obligates Lilly to a demanding or unfriendly entity".

Or maybe just the level zero powers and keep Evie's picks in reserve for now? In-universe it could be explained as Evie needing to develop her speech a bit more. Only thing is I'm not sure how her development works, or how much the recent level up boosts her communication skills.


Those are some pretty wild Ethea, though!

Butterfly effect people into greatness, or achieving your goals, sounds strong on its own and only grows with access to population centers, and even more if you could reach important people. If you could manage to develop and guide other Concordance users, that'd be busted like no other.

Being a superpowered voodoo doll that makes mass-slaughtering suicide agents is also, well. You're signing your life away, but you'd have a real chance of butchering practically anyone who even thinks about crossing you. Definitely seems like an Ethos that could and would sabotage other abilities in a multi-Ethos build. How would someone even get [By my Blood they Bleed - Apostle of Oblivion] unlocked? Be the kid of a strong Diviner family who gets abused and betrayed by everyone they knew and trusted?

Let's hope Zach doesn't get something like this. Lilly does consider him to be a somber thinker, but this would be sort of extreme.
 
(I have made another fan-ethos. This time one not ripped from an obscure visual novel.)
[A Treacherous Path] (Rare): (Flow, maybe?) {Inverted} (I think.)
You have been harmed and betrayed many times, often by those you once trusted. Your loyalty was once easy to gain and near unending, but under the weight of the wrongs done to you, it has strained and weakened.
Let it break completely. Make many allies, and discard just as many. Pledge yourself to greater powers, for only long enough to consume them and grow your own strength. Play your enemies against each other, and they will never realize until too late. With your cunning and power, they will never see the trail of ruin you have left behind you. Not until you have torn what you wanted from them.
 
Also, a question: I'm thinking of letting Evie give a simple numerical rating of how useful she thinks each Ethos will be in future selections. But I'm worried that effectively just removes choices by making the better one more obvious and at that point why don't I just only offer good ones anyway. What do people think?
Or perhaps give an idea of what a typical Lvl0 power would look like for that Ethos, so even if it has a low Evie-number people can still decide "But I really like that skill".

Id rather figure it out on our own. It'd be less fun if we knew ahead of time how good each ethos was
 
Back
Top