It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

[noncannon]

The non-MAD interpretation for the "[EvieLVL] If Lilly dies, then so will everyone else" option is more likely than I'd gauged. There are two possible reactions: it may help us to gain allies, and/or it may make the powers that be seek to lock us away under their control.

...

Evie doesn't strike me as the type who's into EXPLOSION! (the Mutually Assured Destruction hypothesis), but rather into mental manipulation, trickery, and repurposing of existing powers. There is an obvious power, from the previous chapter, that this option may be repurposing:

"There is a place, you'll have noticed it when you were younger. Go there, find your daughter's name, find why you absolutely cannot throw away your life before you have her. It's a certainty deeper than any other you'll ever feel."

As soon as she says it. You know the place. It's a hillock less than an hour west of your home.

Click to shrink...

You know where they are, you couldn't possibly get lost trying to find that spot again, you know you'd be unerringly led there. It's not magic, it's something older.

"What is there mum?" Is there any other question you could ask? You have to know.

"Something we can never escape from, the doom of us all if it doesn't get what it wants."

You're about to respond when the realisation strikes you. You think you know what your mother is talking about. You've already been touched by huge, alien and unknowable powers. Multiple times in fact. Every time you have gained an Ethos.

Click to shrink...

You suppose at least your lie about running away if things turn bleak is perhaps not so much a lie anymore, seeing as how the consequences are apparently so bad (yet also, still not actually explained).

Click to shrink...

In other words, transmit to everyone that same (or similar) feeling of foreboding: a strange certainty that Lilly must survive or everyone is doomed.

So far, so good, but the one essential question that may make this power into a serious asset or liability: are the precise details of said necessity (the future daughter) also transmitted?

If said details are transmitted, then the powers that be will be aiming for nothing more than to lock us away until we fulfill said destiny--and they would have a significant reason for doing so, with the fates of everyone otherwise up in the air. The upgrade becomes a serious liability, and we would expect to be constantly hunted, for Lilly's family to be held hostage and used as bait--the only silver lining being that the powers would ensure her physical survival. In fact, suicide might well be the only sure leverage that Lilly would have.

If the details aren't transmitted, on the other hand, the power becomes a serious asset in making allies. All that the allies would be aware of is that Lilly must fulfill her great destiny (and her significant capabilities seem to hint in a certain direction containing said destiny) or everyone is doomed. If everyone's doomed otherwise, might as well join her on the ground floor and hope for the best. Even the powers of be might concede to this seeming inevitability.

There might be some who consider the effect a trick; those would remain our enemies. But the Harumph guard should be immediately recruitable, with our recently gained goodwill, and expansion is likely from there.

...

The caveat: this requires for two key interpretations to be precisely correct:

1. That the ability is purely a mental effect, rather than a MAD deterrence (if it is, then the potential incompatibility with [Bedrock] comes into play)
2. That the precise details of the destiny are not transmitted (or else the power becomes a liability, as above)

(and, implicitly, that there are no strange counters to this sort of thing)

To me, this is still too much of a risk, but not as bad as before.

 

[sheep-dodger]

One thing I noticed at the beginning of the update was that Yolun's Ethos seems to be called [Iteration to Perfection], and that it seems to have "lost" 8 levels. Do we think that was due to the corruption effects (which can hopefully be reversed), or did Lilly "eat" those levels in the integration of the Heartstaff?

Click to shrink...

I think it's much more likely that it's a result of the corruption. Yolun put a part of himself into the heartstaff, but that staff was made weeks ago and to me it's an iffy proposition that one could put parts of their integration vector into an object unknowingly. It makes much more sense to me that it's the corruption taking its toll. For all we know he's got those eight levels back by now (or partially) after Lilly has started the reconstruction.

 

[kitsune9]

I don't know what to think about the choices because I don't really understand what's going on, which means that I am very much in character with poor lily. If it wasn't for the warning I'd be willing to go with them after our father was healed with the prize of knowledge books and reading lessons but with it I'm a lot more uncertain. Even if he isn't evil and wanting us dead he would still be riding to his doom. It's also possible that we find out he was the one to kill our aunt given he's the only real noble in the area and when we find that out we try to kill him.

One last thing, the girl who is an Auron might be able to see what we did with the flowers because we are currently using our energy to keep them alive so I was wondering what about them might have tickled our memory and I can't find anything about them in the story. Does anyone know enough about flower language to help out? The Liatrises are supposed to be a romantic gift that means joy bliss and happiness well being really hard to grow well dayflowers don't seem to have a ten second goggle meaning.

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[X] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] Talk to the girl on the ride to try or another that the ladder points to and try to figure out what is going on before you make your next move. If nothing else your respawn might help you escape without them knowing.
[X] [BW] 50% Normal 25% Tower 25% Evie
[X] [EvieLVL]
[X] [NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up)

 

[Imugi]

I was wondering what about them might have tickled our memory and I can't find anything about them in the story.

Click to shrink...

Sarah's name is actually Liatris which is what tickled Lilly's memory.

 

[Silverking]

Taking another look at our "fellow" Essence user Kaymie, I think I have a guess as to how she might operate.

You think one of the women may be an Auron. Essence shows the same pleasant reaction to her as you've come to associate {Holistics} with. In fact, you believe you can perceive hints of essence bound in tight formations and patterns inside her quite unlike anything you've ever managed.

Click to shrink...

"She's actually quite lovely, just hasn't been outside the cities before. You'd have lots to talk about,"

Click to shrink...

My guess is that the "tight formations and patterns" we see inside her are pre-packaged spells of the Vancian tradition. She would have to "weave" and store these spells beforehand so that she could lob them out at a later time. Given her education in the cities, she's probably had access to some pretty nifty uses for Essence. The drawback, of course, is that once she's out, she's out. Even putting aside how long it takes to properly weave a spell, it's most likely that she doesn't have a high pool of raw Essence to pull from in order to make more (although I could be wrong depending on how high leveled she is). There's also very little chance of improvising; she has probably been trained in very specific patterns, and any attempts at modification won't come naturally to her.

Lilly, on the other hand, is Unskilled but Strong. She hasn't had the chance to really test out direct applications of Essence using [Bedrock], but given her Tactical mindset she can probably figure out potential applications very quickly, possibly in surprising ways. She's also effectively NEVER going to run on empty, and there's a good chance that Innate Essence might carry some extra advantages or control over trying to manipulate outside Essence. The main weakness at this point is "lack of specifity". She has no context for how the weaving of spells can be done, and there are some applications of Essence that she can't begin to conceive of. If worst comes to worst and we're forced to join Waters, it might be good to see if we get Kaymie to teach us some of the basics of her studies (so that we'll be masters of it by the time we meet again, of course).

 

[Kymecho]

My guess is that the "tight formations and patterns" we see inside her are pre-packaged spells of the Vancian tradition.

Click to shrink...

You might be right, especially given Lilly's observation that she wears less equipment than others. Maybe she's sort of an urban Druid, with a focus on increased Essence efficiency?
Learning from her could be interesting, though there's still 7-9 things left to do in Harmuph (Prime Tree, Hillock, Yolun, Myah, Zach's Ethos, and Madame Silva's favor. Answers and rewards from Captain Martin. Maybe clearing the Rapid Iterator. Maybe fighting off Val+Abby too)

Besides the votes and issue of Lord Waters, what's getting to me right now is what the secret challenges of this update could be.

Does it have to do with Lord Waters' horse?
He probably doesn't have the [Tamer] Ethos, and Lilly didn't see anything else odd about him except his authority with {Juncture Sense} and the warning from {Contention Prognosticator}.

But then the secret challenges have so far tended to be about the choices up for voting. Ugh, I don't know.

 

[Imugi]

Revisiting 'Slipping Through the Cracks' and what the options for Birthing the Divine might result in.

[ ] [BtD] Uniting the Source Wells into the deeper Manifold.
Uniting the different sources into the depths of Lilly's soul(manifold).
[ ] [BtD] Perfecting the gravitas absorption lines.
Lilly gains all of the experience or loses/wastes none when it is transferred to her. Or perhaps experience is shared, 100 [Brave Blood] experience counts for 100 [Cleaver of Fortune] and [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] experience.
[ ] [BtD] Removing Melange-layer human limiters.
Lilly is an Ascendent Singer, she has peak human singing ability. This probably allows her to go beyond peak human in other such things.
[ ] [BtD] Making her compatible with 'Foundational Integration Vectors', if she could manage to unlock even one she'd be incredible.
"You're a Dungeon Lilly!"
[ ] [BtD] Trying to repurpose Maw-bits into more placid components.
Does what it says.
[ ] [BtD] Trying to open up more pinholes for additional possessions.
Allows for more Evie-like beings to tie themselves to Lilly? Perhaps a second body? More Genius Loci? Perhaps it means possessions in the way of artifacts?
[ ] [BtD] Unsupressing her meta-cognition.
A meta-awareness, she'd be able to see a spreadsheet analog or the rules reality operate or perhaps it would be an awareness of the Plan.
[ ] [BtD] Raising her more mundane magics into something mildly transcendent.
Right now Lilly is a Neophyte Rune Smith, maybe this would raise her to a Ascendent Rune Smith at Tier 101 (human limit is Tier 100), or Transcendent Rune Smith Tier 1. Perhaps it could lead to Singing magic or Essence magic.
[ ] [BtD] Decoupling her from the Tapestry and 'physics'.
Cause and effect does not have to apply to Lilly.
[ ] [BtD] Flagging her as an acceptable recipient for 'Inverted Integration Vectors', Manoth's pet project.
Inverted Ethos have succeeded their rolls but this would probably make it easier for them.
[ ] [BtD] …Fuck it. I just dumped a whole bunch of mutative potential energy in. She'd either die or attain a measure of Divinity on the spot.
Just what it says.

 

[noncannon]

Been rereading to search for hidden challenges (likely unexpected applications of Lilly's new powers) or interesting tidbits.

Baseline humans had certainly become several orders of magnitude more powerful since the commencement of the Plan, but it would still be foolish to shape an artefact around one of the girl's mortal concepts. One day the indivine would equal their patrons, but not today. I selected {Oaken Core} to bud from.

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure baseline humans didn't get several orders of magnitude physically stronger, so I'm guessing this has more to do with the apparent immensity of the soul. In this case, the Plan involves evolving and ascending a new form of extra-Melange/"divine" species; to what end? To break the equally-balanced stalemate between Angels/Demons, to create a neutral faction, break stagnation?

...
...

How naïve were you to ever imagine that your own body was the source of yourself and not simply a fleshly puppet? Before your enlightenment, you would have described this merely as an inner awareness of Essence combined with an innate source of the power. But you see now that every move you have ever made was first made by the essence within you, each drawn breath first pulled within the Rapture

Click to shrink...

So, IRL peoples' brains make decisions seconds before consciously "choosing" to make them (i.e. becoming consciously aware of the choice; which incidentally suggests that our conscious mind only takes credit for choices rather than actually making them but whatever), hence their conscious "choice" can be reliably predicted/detected before it's actually "chosen".

Article:

Using the fMRI to monitor brain activity and machine learning to analyze the neuroimages, the researchers were able to predict which pattern participants would choose up to 11 seconds before they consciously made the decision. And they were able to predict how vividly the participants would be able to envisage it.

Source: https://qz.com/1569158/neuroscientists-read-unconscious-brain-activity-to-predict-decisions/

Original journal article

This may be a similar concept, but with essence rather than neuron firings.

As far as practical applications: Lilly might be able to detect peoples' choices before they are made, giving her an edge in negotiation (interrupt/preempt bad impressions, follow-up on good ones), and of course, combat (she knows what you're about to do before you even do it).

More evidence of this:

You notice and dismiss the fact that your thoughts are technically centred within your {Core Heart} now whilst simply being duplicated within your head. It just feels natural that way, and doesn't look any different on the outside.

Click to shrink...

She can detect at laest her own thoughts; why not other peoples'?

In the same vein, you are now a {Tremendous Mechanist}. Any physical system less complex than your own anatomy will now be entirely trivial for you to immediately grasp in full from a moment's glance. So long as you have passing familiarity with what you're looking at, you can likely instinctively extrapolate 90% of how it functions on sight.

Click to shrink...

Depending on what exactly "less complex than your own anatomy" means (body parts in isolation? The anatomies of other people who haven't been so thoroughly modified?):

I wonder if this implies she can read/modify other peoples' brain-states to perform instant mental manipulation, instantly diagnose and find non-magical cures to ailments, or upgrade the human body.

...
...

You can't help but chuckle at the fact it [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] is essentially one of Myah's pep talks (before she became distant) manifested into a power.

Click to shrink...

Myah may have been inverted after the fact (now that we know such a thing is possible); her original ethos may have been uplifting [Pep Talk] ethos (or heck, even [Bedrock]) but now it seems to do the opposite, being a drain (with or without the earlier-speculative "negative essence"). So... she used to inspire hope, but now causes despair and drags people down? Witched Inverted out for superpowers? Just spitballing.

This would, however, explain why she seems desperate to get away, as inverted ethos are now known to be hunted.

...
...

In any identity battle, the conceived would always have a decided advantage to the constructed.

Click to shrink...

Something tells me this is important, but I can't quite put my tendril on it.

"Conceived" tends to indicate the combination of genetic material, but why would that make an identity stronger? Maybe a natural attachment to some sort of genetic identity?

Possible pun? "Conceived" could also mean "thought up", to be formed and developed in the mind (Flower's mind? Lilly's own mind or soul? Someone else's?). Flower being a big deal, that seems a solid reason. The soul is also a larger deal than expected, though it's not clear what the connection is.

Another possible pun: "decided" advantage; either Flower "decided" Lilly would be like this, and/or it comes from some sort of advantage of "conceived" beings in deciding things (perhaps due to the relative simplicity/straightforward goals of the constructed?). Optimizer!Lilly, for sure, is not very committal to her decisions, changing her course of action at the first sign of new information, being willing even to sacrifice herself without issue. Lilly/Petal, on the other hand, would fight to mutual destruction, forcing an optimizer to concede once her Concord precog informed her of the fact.

(This might, incidentally, be foreshadowing for the nature of Evie's new possible upgrade, in which case it would seem to support the MAD hypothesis rather than the Flower-retransmission hypothesis from my earlier post.)

 

[Alectai]

I took some time to think on this while I was at work, I want to amend my vote.

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[X] [WwaT] Submit
-[X] Go Willingly--but try to bargain for a day or two to see to your Father's recovery and get your affairs in order.
[X] [BW] 60% Normal, 20% Evie, 20% Tower
[X] [EvieLVL] If Lilly dies, then so will everyone else.

If this guy's willing to eat the loss of face to get Lilly now with this gambit, then he's not going to give us a chance to bail--and now that I think about it, Prognosticator didn't say he's an immediate threat, merely that 'There's no outcome where one of you doesn't eventually kill the other'

And the logic behind that seems pretty sound? Lilly is either going to be used until she breaks by this guy, or she'll have to have him killed because there is no possible way that he's willing to give up the goose that lays the golden eggs. And based on re-reading things and a look at the map... I think he wants Lilly to help backstop a blitzkrieg into that more arid zone, based on her capacity to aid in coordination and stamina for hundreds of fighters over a wide theater of operations. He seems to consider this threat to be very important.

However, the problems are that if we leave here, Valerie rolls in and murders Lilly's mother, assuming she's the Divine Fragment they were looking for. This will likely cause the further death or mental collapse of the rest of her family (And is possibly the reason behind Zach being flagged for an incoming {Inverted} Ethos, if Concordance picked up this was coming and he pushed to set up some tragic overlord backstory here). Even beyond that, we've still got some loose ends to sort out before we go (We need to go to the Flower Mound, we need to link up with Petal, ideally we need to figure out what the fuck is going on with Myah, and somehow squeeze in a basic education while we're at it.) We need that month of preptime if we're going to even pray to make headway.

But if he's going to risk the loss of face to brute force through this, it means he's desperate, and that means he's not going to give us an opportunity to escape without ruinous costs. So we're going to need to lean into it if he puts his foot down rather than try to back down.

 

[noncannon]

Yolun's [Iteration to Perfection] is probably an R&D ethos, rather than a woodcrafting ethos.

First and most obviously, there's nothing to suggest that Yolun's ethos has to do with wood. In fact, the runic stuff doesn't really match, and Marius found the quality of Yolun's panic room seal extremely surprising. Yolun might well have reason to hide his true specialty, after escaping the cities (this would be why Lilly herself doesn't know her own father's ethos).

If anything, [Iteration to Perfection] may be best used as a Research & Development ethos. It is in product development that we most want rapid and intelligent iteration of prototypes: finding the design that works best and is most easily constructed. Furthermore, this would be ideal for mundane designs reproducible by everyone else (or, at the very least, for designs that can be widely duplicated through common ethos); as, that way, everyone gets the benefits of the Iteration, not just the prototyper.

In other words, iterating not only the product itself, but to steadily improve the efficiency of one's methods, to build tools for building better tools for building better tools...

By contrast, iterating just to make a single final product stronger (not even a general design of a stronger product) is a waste. One product, and one product alone reaps the benefits.

This is another reason why Yolun may have a degraded ethos level (to be sure, there are many possible reasons... but do injuries really affect ethos levels specifically?). His misuse of the ethos--in building final products rather than prototyping--is contrary to the ethos's ethos, and may have led to its divergence.

Yolun Silas |Integration Vector:: [Iteration to Perfection]: Mana :: 31st​ 23rd​ Growth

Click to shrink...

...

With this revelation, there is also a possible synergy between [Iteration to Perfection] and the Foundational Ethos [Rapid Iterator]. With access to both, we could have our father optimize the dungeon's iteration--especially as there have been hints he might be joining our Dream (but regardless, via our Collective coordination).

Better yet, we have another possible synergy with [Towering Edifice to Heaven], as the latter can seemingly be used to create items very rapidly, rather than having to spend time building them. Rapid create and iterate.

Yolun's ethos is also precedent that the things being iterated might not just be monsters; we ourselves could still be the R&D Dungeon. (And, as a reminder, Lilly's dual-goal is academic achievement, so this would be a way of attaining her desires without going the ultraviolence route).

This intriguing possibility, and the above two synergies, means that I will strongly advocate for acquiring [Rapid Iterator] in the future.

It might not be too late. The rampant [Iterator] is still around, after all. All we have to do is Leeroy in with minimal support and get another Foundational Ethos </s, probably>.

More seriously, Captain Martin's strong insistence in keeping us for a month may very well be because he wants our help with dealing with the [Rapid Iterator] once and for all... and this fits well with the now-enticing possibility of acquiring it.

Also, the [Rapid Iterator] was Yolun's doing all along! A dungeon appears and he just "coincidentally" loses eight levels. The wolf biting him was the perfect false-flag attack, turning him into what he already was!

 

[Imugi]

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[X] [CupiG] Exaggeration. Claim that your powers will fade to nothing if you are taken far from home, that it will be many years before you can range farther than Harmuph's immediate surrounds.
[x] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] But demand time. You need 3 days to finish up your business. If you go too soon, you will be near powerless going too far away from these forests. Also attempt to secure the Lord's 'word as bond' that he will return you safely home at mission's end.
[X] [BW] 50% Normal 25% Tower 25% Evie
[X] [EvieLVL] Lots and lots of spiders! Everyone loves my special spiders.
[X] [EvieLVL] A fun thing demons sometimes do…
[X] [EvieLVL] What's better than one of me? Dozens of mini-me! Sublets ahoy.
[X] [NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up)
[X] [NIV] The end of the Second Era.
[X] [NIV] Razgul on the run.
[X] [NIV] A happy builder.

 

[darknessworld]

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[x] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] But demand time. You need 3 days to finish up your business. If you go too soon, you will be near powerless going too far away from these forests. Also attempt to secure the Lord's 'word as bond' that he will return you safely home at mission's end.
[X] [BW] 50% Normal 25% Tower 25% Evie
[X] [EvieLVL] A fun thing demons sometimes do…
[X] [NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up)

After thinking about how many exp differences there are between the normal ethos upgrades and the special, which are probably going to become our aces in the future, I think giving the latters a smaller share than 50% wouldn't be that wise.

Also, I'm not voting for the MAD because I want Evie to have some means to gather her own exp which doesn't involve showing herself. A bomb that shouldn't go off doesn't give that.

 

[noncannon]

The final mystery is how much a part of that Petal is. Yes we are alike, but what are her hopes? What are her desires? There can be more than one Dream within the Forest.

Click to shrink...

Wait, but I was promised there could be only one Dream. Meh grudge match!

Also, I'm not voting for the MAD because I want Evie to have some means to gather her own exp which doesn't involve showing herself. A bomb that shouldn't go off doesn't give that.

Click to shrink...

I find it more likely to be mental manipulation, rather than a blast, in which case she would gain XP from using it.

(Another line of thinking: what exactly is gravitas? It could be that significant strategic contributions gain XP, even if all that was done was avoid using a threat; under this theory there could be XP gains from enemies preemptively dissuaded.)

That said, there really are far too few details for comfort, so yeah. Mental manipulation also may not be useful on non-human enemies (though there are arguments it should be).

Spiders are the ones more sure to be able to show without actually revealing Evie, as they're at least nominally part of the druidic playbook unless they're massive spiders, in which case some questions may be raised (but, on the other hand, we're less sure she'd get XP from their efforts).

After thinking about how many exp differences there are between the normal ethos upgrades and the special, which are probably going to become our aces in the future, I think giving the latters a smaller share than 50% wouldn't be that wise.

Click to shrink...

On the other hand, we have to survive until said future and will probably be in combat soon. Our normal ethos are < 400 XP from expansion, while Tower is 10000 XP away.

Come to think of it, I suppose this is an argument for cutting off Tower now and redirecting it back later, but it's difficult to tell how often we'll have the chance to pass a new budget.

 

[darknessworld]

while Tower is 10000 XP away.

Click to shrink...

While this is true, I don't think you should treat the dungeons ethos like that.
It was already said that a level up would be more like choosing a new ethos than upgrading a previous one.
At the moment, all of the exp that will go to it are probably going to be used to upgrade the "generic defense against everything" and maybe the domain.
This is a lot even if you follow a short term perspective.

 

[Silverking]

Besides the votes and issue of Lord Waters, what's getting to me right now is what the secret challenges of this update could be.

Click to shrink...

I'm not going to stress too much about it. Slyvena said that many of the secret challenges were based on predicting certain plot elements before they become explicitly revealed, so our best bet of finding one is mainly through the in-depth analysis and speculation we've already been doing (which builds up our investment and helps us make better choices in the future, the conniving bastard). While the rewards for the secret challenges are undeniable helpful, I think it's counterproductive to think of them as "the only way Lilly will survive the next chapter." It's a treat, not a requirement. Our story decisions and Ethos picks are far more vital for Lilly's success.

Speaking of shotgun speculation:

• The "conceived vs constructed in an identity battle" is an interesting concept, but...how is it not a "no contest"?. Petal is obviously more of a copy of Lilly's personality and desires, while Mindstate's only real claim is its directive of "Keep. Lilly. Safe." Is it more analogous to a war over territory, where Mindstate has more technical knowledge of how to utilize the Ethos, but Petal has a homefield advantage and knows where the secret boltholes of memory and passion are? ...Can Mindstate even use [True Song]?
• So Lilly is an official Essence Healer now, right? Like, the main thing holding her back before was her shaping deficiency, and [Bedrock] and an understanding of human anatomy have well cleared that hurdle. There may be some Ethos that can heal others quicker and more intuitively, but Lilly was able to give "spot acupuncture" to Micah while hugging him and basically cured "intelligent magical cancer". Does she need to get certified, or...?
• ...There's a non-zero chance that if Senus the advisor has known since childhood that he would be serving a great and powerful noble, he may actually have the [Service to Man] Ethos. I mean, he's probably going to kill anyone who finds that out, but if your job is to see after all of a great man's wants and needs, then why not?
• Is Ethos detection a skill that's exclusive to Mindstate? I mean, Mindstate clearly has 10/10 grasp on all the Ethos at our disposal, so there's a chance that Lilly will eventually be able to do it on her own. That could be really useful, particularly when encountering a bunch of unknown people with varying Ethae and power levels.

 

[NotteBoy97]

My bet for the Ethos sigh was that it was Deific Awareness but Lilly doesn't know how to cross her eyes to look at it like Mindstate Lilly could.

 

[Imugi]

After some erratic pulsing that resonates with the concept of joy

Click to shrink...

Just noticed this. Lilly can recognize the concept of joy, as in Big-C Concept. When shown Evie's Ethos upon it was an epithet 'Ambrosia of Joy' and that its source is Deific. In fact, Mindstate Lilly called {Oaken Core} and {Essence Metabolism} excellent general reinforcement Concepts while improving them with [Towering Edifice to Heaven]. From this information it seems that Deific deals with Concepts and [Tower] will let Lilly interact with them.

 

[Silverking]

In fact, Mindstate Lilly called {Oaken Core} and {Essence Metabolism} excellent general reinforcement Concepts while improving them with [Towering Edifice to Heaven]. From this information it seems that Deific deals with Concepts and [Tower] will let Lilly interact with them.

Click to shrink...

...That might be a clue into how our crafting system works with the [Tower]. I mean, Slyvena said that we happened to unlock both enchantments and artifact creation, but what if our Subskills are the menu of what enchantments we can imbue? Pillows of The World Beneath, Flutes of True Song, Tuning Fork of Stutter Ping. The more variety we have, the more enchantments we'll have access to. Of course, we'll have to figure out how to access the crafting functions without Mindstate, but that's on the to-do list.

 

[GlassMask]

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[x] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] But demand time. You need 3 days to finish up your business. If you go too soon, you will be near powerless going too far away from these forests. Also attempt to secure the Lord's 'word as bond' that he will return you safely home at mission's end.
[X] [BW] 50% Normal 25% Tower 25% Evie
[X] [EvieLVL] A fun thing demons sometimes do…
[X] [EvieLVL] Lots and lots of spiders! Everyone loves my special spiders.
[X] [NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up)

 

[noncannon]

I have another idea, that gets us the time required, sounds less self-centered, and is more likely to impress Lord Waters with our supposed dedication to duty

[] [WwaT] Submit, but demand to finish discharging our essential duties to Harumph
-[] We need to destroy the threat still contained in the forest
-[] We owe favors and follow-up to a variety of people, and need to discharge them
-[] We think that finishing these tasks would render our ethos more reliable, improving our effectiveness after leaving
-[] Our family has become a target; we want to bring them along as camp followers when we leave

Sebastian Waters likes straightforwardness, and our (apparent) dedication to duty is likely to impress him, as it theoretically bodes well for him in the future. Nothing we say is a lie, and if he presses, we have examples to give him (or can even tell him of the locus if necessary--but certainly not at first).

Furthermore, our negotiating about the enlistment details implies that we're going to go along with it, rather than slipping away, putting him less under guard. Said negotiation also gives us a backup plan to keep our family safe from Valaries and other threats. (Likely, Waters will instead send them to some other city as guests under his protection, which will also allow us to intercept the party and free them.)

He clearly wants us to go immediately, but the carrot of improved effectiveness should be enough to sway him for at least a few days.

To expedite our demands, he's even likely to volunteer his force to clearing out the [Rapid Iterator], and to keep them around until that task is complete, defending against Valarie.

During the night-time, we can sneak away and meet up with Petal, Myah, (maybe Silva), and the flowers, and prepare to leave with our family.

In fact, this is good enough to be the primary vote (and less likely to outright anger him than just going along with the lie). It also implies a duty to Harumph (hence also that Captain Martin wasn't lying) without actually confirming it.

[] [CupiG] Submit, but demand to finish discharging our essential duties to Harumph
-[] We need to destroy the threat still contained in the forest
-[] We owe favors and follow-up to a variety of people, and need to discharge them
-[] We think that finishing these tasks would render our ethos more reliable, improving our effectiveness after leaving
-[] Our family has become a target; we want to bring them along as camp followers when we leave
-[] If pressed, agree that you have joined the guard

I have approval voted for these two new plans as well.

 

[Deuterium Dawn]

So that was incredibly awesome, terrifying and shitty at the same time. Suck it Ev'aclliál, owned by a toddler. Hopefully sociopathic Skynet Lilly is gone for good.

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[X] [CupiG] Stand on your own Authority. Reject the lie that you have joined the Watch, but also refuse to recognise Lord Waters' claim on you. (Politely)
So this guy seems slimy and we know there's no possible way for this to end well in the long term. Don't want to work for him but not sure we can quite tell him to just fuck off and get away with it. Also not super happy with whatever game Martin is playing but it's clearly more in Lilly's interest as Waters is both going to try to kill her eventually and take her way from her family right now.
[X] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] Go willingly.
I don't like this, at all, but I don't think we're quite in a position to deal with options of fight or flight just yet. If nothing else, even if we escape later they still have Lilly's family as leverage and she's not a point where she can protect them all right now.
[X] [BW] Example 1: 70% Normal 15% Evie 15% Tower
This seems reasonable.
[X] [EvieLVL] If Lilly dies, then so will everyone else.
Fuck spiders.
[X] [NIV] The end of the Second Era.
More background lore!

 

[Aster]

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[x] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] But demand time. You need 3 days to finish up your business. If you go too soon, you will be near powerless going too far away from these forests. Also attempt to secure the Lord's 'word as bond' that he will return you safely home at mission's end.
[X] [BW] 50% Normal 25% Tower 25% Evie
[X] [EvieLVL] A fun thing demons sometimes do…
[X] [NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up)

 

[R Besque]

Oh, how beautiful. I let out a sigh as I read about Lilly's flowering dress, her sheer awe and delight at the connection of all things, the loveliness that can be inherent in the world. Her Ethae truly helping to make her happy. It reminded me very much of the mystics and saints with their effervescent poetry, speaking of oneness with God.

[X] [CupiG] Confirm the Lie. Lilly agrees that she has already joined the Watch. The Captain gives you a reason to refuse Lord Waters.
[x] [WwaT] Submit
- [X] But demand time. You need 3 days to finish up your business. If you go too soon, you will be near powerless going too far away from these forests. Also attempt to secure the Lord's 'word as bond' that he will return you safely home at mission's end.
[x] [WwaT] Submit
- [x] Plot to escape.
[X] [BW] 60% Normal 20% Tower 20% Evie
[X] [EvieLVL] A fun thing demons sometimes do…
[X] [NIV] In search of my sister. (time almost up)

 

[NotteBoy97]

[x] Alectai

I don't really get the "you need three days or else we'll be weak" write-in since that just feels like a lie since this guy should know about our locus and therefore should know if moving too far away from it has the chance to weaken us if he really wants to use us. Cause I really doubt trying to lie or being wrong about our own powers will get us any respect or our requested three days. Better to just ask for time outright instead of trying to pretend he has to do it.

 

[Deuterium Dawn]

[x] Alectai

I don't really get the "you need three days or else we'll be weak" write-in since that just feels like a lie since this guy should know about our locus and therefore should know if moving too far away from it has the chance to weaken us if he really wants to use us. Cause I really doubt trying to lie or being wrong about our own powers will get us any respect or our requested three days. Better to just ask for time outright instead of trying to pretend he has to do it.

Click to shrink...

Well it was one of the default options for refusing outright, just "many years" instead of three days.