I asked, apparently not in its current form, and because the way {Primordial Chassis} works means leaves {Melded Carapace} as a suboptimal thing to crowbar in with it (Since at it's baseline form, the way it works is that "Your entire body counts as being as well protected as your best protected part... Except {Primordial Chassis} already works that way")

It's an AT-Field, not actual armor. And Pithe is very bad at pushing outside its comfort zone even if you disregard how Divinity is made of weirdness and OCP shit that are hard to crowbar into the baseline Pithe manifestations. Which isn't to say that it's bad, it's just a victim of the whole "The ride never fucking stops" thing--it'll be great once we can get even some basic newbie gear."

That as been my impression. And besides, tying everyting to the {Primordial Chassis} sounds like putting all our eggs in one basket. I think it's time to be thinking about layered defenses, so that if we meet something that turns out very good at piercing one kind of defense, we have another layer that might be able to resist it. And {Melded Carapace} sounds perfect for making a second layer uniformly strong. We just need some armor. Besides, we still have several subskill slots under {Melded Carapace}; maybe we can get it to provide defenses against Flow or other esoteric attack types that {Primordial Chassis} is poor against.

Also, we've already seen at least one Ethos that specifically pierces exactly one layer of defense. Right now we only have one layer, and thus would be vulnerable to such an attack.
 
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That as been my impression. And besides, tying everyting to the {Primordial Chassis} sounds like putting all our eggs in one basket. I think it's time to be thinking about layered defenses, so that if we meet something that turns out very good at piercing one kind of defense, we have another layer that might be able to resist it. And {Melded Carapace} sounds perfect for making a second layer uniformly strong. We just need some armor. Besides, we still have several subskill slots under {Melded Carapace}; maybe we can get it to provide defenses against Flow or other esoteric attack types that {Primordial Chassis} is poor against.

Also, we've already seen at least one Ethos that specifically pierces exactly one layer of defense. Right now we only have one layer, and thus would be vulnerable to such an attack.

You misunderstand, {Primordial Chassis} is universally applicable, even against things that normally are defense inapplicable.

It's not 'Weak', against anything, it's just a relatively mild defense across the board in exchange for its all-encompassing nature. It's probably the only reason enough of Lilly's soul remained mobile to shake off the rest of Valerie's attack.
 
We have 6 layers of defense actually.

Concordance warnings, danger avoidance, and impossible to be seen in the concordant layer.
Hybrid Syphon, eating dangers before they reach you and making sure nothing sticks for long.
Primordial Chassey, tanking and reducing anything that hits.
Essence recovery in the form of Bedrock and locus. Heal yourself back up, you are the unmomable mountain, the unshakable ground, the forest that grows back stronger.
An almost indestructible core.
And a respawn point in the woods.
 
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Can never have too many layers. Not when we seem determined to end up fighting ever single major evil we can manage to encounter in less than a month.

Besides, I'm curious to see what {Melded Carapace} is capable of when levelled up.
 
Can never have too many layers. Not when we seem determined to end up fighting ever single major evil we can manage to encounter in less than a month.

Besides, I'm curious to see what {Melded Carapace} is capable of when levelled up.

Yeah, one layer of magical plate, {Primordial Chassis}, and our own innate durability makes for a heck of a combo.
 
and impossible to be seen in the concordant layer.
I don't think this is true, actually. [Cleaver] may give Lilly the opportunity to fight against any attempt to railroad her future with concordance abilities but I'm fairly sure she's visible. If she was impossible to be seen through concordance we wouldn't have to worry about divination defense because that is concordance. More mundanely, the very fact that Ladder's Juncture Sense reports can quantify Lilly suggests we very much are visible there.

NULLERROR appears to be something that is actually impossible to be seen with concordance but even then information can be gleaned about it from observing effects it has on everything else and working backwards from there, though that has the benefit of being an after the fact action.
 
I don't think this is true, actually. [Cleaver] may give Lilly the opportunity to fight against any attempt to railroad her future with concordance abilities but I'm fairly sure she's visible. If she was impossible to be seen through concordance we wouldn't have to worry about divination defense because that is concordance. More mundanely, the very fact that Ladder's Juncture Sense reports can quantify Lilly suggests we very much are visible there.

NULLERROR appears to be something that is actually impossible to be seen with concordance but even then information can be gleaned about it from observing effects it has on everything else and working backwards from there, though that has the benefit of being an after the fact action.
There is Proof from the madam herself that Lilly is a blind spot. So the advice to make mundane people unscriably doesn't apply to Lilly. And if Lilly becomes their leader then this protection gets extended to all her followers, since they follow what Lilly decides to do, and Lilly's choices are a mystery.
"A girl 'dies' in the forest, a moon passes and she returns alive. Mere days later, this same girl breaches a veil those decades her senior could not. Further still, whatever she does later that night causes the men of the Watch to pull ranks and turn mum, keeping their secrets to themselves. The Diviner looks into the girl's future, and finds it is utterly incomprehensible, now obscured by a veil of its own, even greater than that which shrouded the forest."
[Cleaver of Fortune] (Mythic):
To have had your fate so rapidly upended, your entire direction and path through life replaced; this is not an insignificant thing. Your life is one prone to powerful eddies of omen and destiny. Embrace the chaos; unmake promised futures and sunder prophecies that were certain. Unite events and lives that make no sense being intwined together. In your presence, no prediction will be ever a sure thing. There are many in this world that take much comfort in the wisdom of the future, simply possessing such an Ethos would earn you a great deal of hostile attention seeking to snip your troublesome life in the bud. But perhaps that won't be such a problem when luck and the future itself can be moulded as wet clay.
I guess you're right. The power that makes Lilly a blindspot to concordance is Hybrid Syphon moreso then Cleaver. But Cleaver means she ignores predictions and changes the future to her whims, no matter what fates have been pre-ordained.
'The {Hybrid Siphon} obstructs basic divination attempts. A lesser relational link would sufficiently extend its scope to shield Myah Uyle from typical scry attempts.'
Primordial Chassis and Iron will likely contribute to it as well.
Primordial Chassis said:
, this artefact hyper-realizes the protective and preservational concept of its inspiration and extends it to additional meta-physical variables.
Iron will said:
It would be so easy to give in. But time and time again I've proven I'm made of tougher stuff.
-> Will and desires have a meta-physical weight that subtly resists any foreign incursion.
 
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There is Proof from the madam herself that Lilly is a blind spot. So the advice to make mundane people unscriably doesn't apply to Lilly. And if Lilly becomes their leader then this protection gets extended to all her followers, since they follow what Lilly decides to do, and Lilly's choices are a mystery.

Madam Silva isn't a powerful diviner by her own admission. She is just good at using what she has.
 
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That Ladder saw the need to qualify basic divination is prevented by Hybrid Siphon supports my argument, I think. Implicitly it concedes that advanced divination would still work on Lilly. I also think using Madam Silva/Diviners as the measuring stick is really selling Concordance short. Here's what Martin had to say on the subject during his info dump:

Concordance Ethea redefine reality, or fate, or something. Like I said, I'm not sure anyone knows. I've known a few good men who practiced it in my time, even they were not able to figure out much before the Tithe collected them. Diviners use it, but at a level so mild it just isn't the same.

Diviners seem to be, at least by Martin's reckoning, pretty low on the scale of Concordance ability - and on top of that we likely have to consider that anyone allowed to stick around in Harumph, like Silva, was not Tithed and so was likely deemed not all that special in potential. Some people - like Lilly! - may fall through the cracks, but in general by virtue of where we are we shouldn't expect to run into too many genuine powerhouses. Finally, we know that Senus is a Concordance user and whatever he did with that rose was dangerous enough that we burned it and our own memory with Evie warning us not to pry into what we found. I mean, it could have been a Flow effect or something that doesn't require detection like an automatic defense system triggered on examination but still.

Honestly, given Ladder's assessment of NULLERROR, I'm not certain true invisibility from Concordance is attainable. Another concept I've been tossing around relating to it is "Connection/Relation" in that a lot of what we've seen about its workings seem to involve connections to people, events, consequence, etc. [Cleaver] may make a specific untangling of Lilly's future something to which an immutable answer is impossible but I'd expect someone of sufficient ability could likely approximate it as a set of probability distributions based on her past actions to predict her likely responses. In essence, I think it's less that Lilly represents a blind spot in Concordance so much as a knot or something. It'll ping as unusual to Concordance users, and perfectly untangling it may prove impossible because [Cleaver] prevents her from being locked into a single, unchangeable fate, but you can see it.
 
In essence, I think it's less that Lilly represents a blind spot in Concordance so much as a knot or something. It'll ping as unusual to Concordance users, and perfectly untangling it may prove impossible because [Cleaver] prevents her from being locked into a single, unchangeable fate, but you can see it.

I think there is a way to cloak further, if necessary. At the end of 1.12, one of the level up options for Cleaver was (No one knew her future, not even herself), which may provide some additional "static" for anyone looking to trace Lilly's intent-lines.

Yeah, one layer of magical plate, {Primordial Chassis}, and our own innate durability makes for a heck of a combo.

"Congratulations, Charell! You managed to overpower the weakpoint-reducing armor AND the mild "anti-everything field" with enough force to pierce Lilly's wooden skin! And now for your prize: An endless supply of acidic blood right into your face! That's right, I said "endless"; this demigod can generate blood faster than she will ever bleed out. Tough luck, slugger! That's all the time we have for today, folks! Tune in next time for another exciting episode of "Why Won't That Blasted Girl Die?".
 
[ ] [BLU] Firm as a mountain. For the needy, she had strength to spare.

By the way, while I read some comments on this during all of this discussion, all of those were about giving us emotional strenght, etc...
But I think this was literal; if we chose this, we would have become physically stronger. I prefer the option that won, but I think this detail should be noted for future references.
 
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Nah, that's too...twangy/modern for her, unless the first 30 seconds are completely unlike the rest. Get something more "dark-but-hopeful acoustic children's nursery rhyme".

But while we're thinking about Lilly images, I was reminded of her when I saw this one, for all that I keep thinking it looks less right the more I look into the details.

 
Lilly's on a path to becoming the Empress of the bastion which will bring all her followers into the next world.
So I dunno about the pics. I'd think she'd be dressed up more, regal, made clear by her regalia that she's the one in charge, the one they trust, the one they depend on. Not yet, but soon enough.
 
Nah, that's too...twangy/modern for her, unless the first 30 seconds are completely unlike the rest. Get something more "dark-but-hopeful acoustic children's nursery rhyme".

Well, there is a more "acoustic" version sung by Janel Drewis, but it's more of a "the path ahead is dark and full of awe and terrors" kind of mood rather than spinning back to hopeful.

A song that I feel would match the "dark-but-hopeful" message for the quest (if not explicitly Lilly herself) would be Run Boy Run by Woodkid. If nothing else, this would be the type of song to play while Lilly is riding Chariot while being chased by Lord Waters and his men.
 
[X] [BLU] She stepped inward, re-emerging when the danger had passed.
[X] [BBLU] She watched. She waited. Still and silent. When the opening came, she moved.
[X] [SES] Dissolution of the Self
 
Vote's long since closed, and anyway why the fuck are you voting for the eldritch godling to eat us

Now, now, maybe Parodia has some insight into the situation that we missed. That we totally missed. To the point that the rest of the thread, for all of our endless discussions, completely neglected to compare the pros vs cons of taking an Ethos that, apparently, threatened to kill everyone we knew and loved.
 
Vote's long since closed, and anyway why the fuck are you voting for the eldritch godling to eat us
Right, two things; I haven't had internet access in two months and was trying to catch up on everything I missed-- it did not cross my mind that the vote would be over.
Second, if a QM offers up such an obviously horrific choice, just the allure of where it could go is too tempting.

It is, of course, a thing I would regret heavily after the fact.
 
Now, now, maybe Parodia has some insight into the situation that we missed. That we totally missed. To the point that the rest of the thread, for all of our endless discussions, completely neglected to compare the pros vs cons of taking an Ethos that, apparently, threatened to kill everyone we knew and loved.
It's called synergy.

[Shine, my Gentle Heart] (Rare): (Flow)/Oath (Likely to hybridize to Flow/Oath)
Conditions Met? Test of Purity: {Yes.} Test of Charity: {Yes.} Test of Valour: {Yes.}

When the whole world tries to guard only itself, often with very good reason, it would take an exceptional woman indeed to turn that logic on its head. You do not strive for shallow glory, but unblemished Goodness. Others shall call you foolish whilst secretly wishing they could climb half as high as your valour. For when life demands that you compromise to match it, you shall answer with an inner illuminating brilliance that can never be smothered. Where a hundred thousand men say the only solution is violence, you are the one woman who can reach a tyrant's heart. Meek and strong alike shall look to you for moral guidance. Heal wounds the eye cannot see. Sway the most despicable back toward the light. Take your small flickering candle of love; set the world ablaze.

Look at that description. Could you imagine the modifiers, bonuses, and sheer experience for trying to redeem whatever that is? We're going to be the first person in history to max out an Ethos upon acquisition.
 
The grown up Lilly that I'm imagining is kind of like a mix of a Sister of Battle from 40k, and a Priestess of Shallya from WF. Kind of contradictory, but the 40k stuff is the fighty parts and the priestess part is all of the friendship and healing. Of course, this is just taking what Lilly has now and imagining her all grown up. While I expect the thread to try and keep this current trajectory, who knows how things will change as stuff gets crazier and Lilly continues to get more Ethea and such.

As for music, well, it depends. When it comes to Woodkid, I favor Iron more. Though I feel like True Faith is a pretty great theme for Lilly, though it may be a bit too melancholy. If you don't think that one is too melancholy, then maybe Midnight Dove is more of what you're looking for. If nothing there tickles your fancy, then maybe look at something from the soundtrack of A Plague Tale: Innocence. These are all instrumentals, so they make the best themes but the soundtrack is just so atmospheric that I feel like a lot of it could be put into this story.
 
Now, now, maybe Parodia has some insight into the situation that we missed. That we totally missed. To the point that the rest of the thread, for all of our endless discussions, completely neglected to compare the pros vs cons of taking an Ethos that, apparently, threatened to kill everyone we knew and loved.

The more I think about it the more I realize how incredible [Dissolution of the Self] actually is as an ethos. I think it might actually be drawing from some sort of "Maw Concordance" source. The knowledge that we get from the ethos is crazy. With [Dissolution of the Self] we immediately can perfectly forecast both Lilly's short and long term futures with near perfect accuracy. Lord Waters, Senus, even that giant looming calamity would all immediately cease to be concerns! We would've gotten a really good idea of what the next chapter would entail and even how many chapters were remaining!

Best of all, it would've ensured that this quest isn't going to be abandoned halfway through. We would've had a full garuntee that we would be able to read Lilly's full, complete adventure with no interruptions. We missed out.
 
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