Half Moon
In the end, there is no end.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm just going to point out here that it only threatened to eat us if we didn't pick it. Anyway, if we chose it, we could eat the world!
It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure
- Thread starter Slyvena
- Start date
- Original Mature Fantasy Action
- Location
- Somewhere.
So, anyone have last-minute guesses on whatever secrets we're still missing?
Well, is it just me or do any of you guys think the storm was caused by Valerie? Perhaps she gave an order along the lines of, "Wind, cover my passage and hide my tracks." If her Ethos is problematic for Concordance to keep track of, creating a storm could be quite a disruption towards Concordance.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Can you really regret adopting another eldritch creature into yourself and raising it to be a good boy for you? Besides rest state and Eevie should be able to balance things out.
So [Championed Uplift], I think this dungeon is based/inspired by those stories where a person ends up trapped in a dungeon by themselves and the only way out is by reaching the end of it. And in that journey to the deepest depths of the dungeon, should they survive, they get SWOLE as fuck.
Reading its blurb, is anyone else drawing a connection between the information and those two (Apotheotic) Ethos Lilly was offered? Not specifically a connection to the dungeon and the Maw, more so to the goal of the dungeon, 2nd Integration. The dungeon provides identity fracture trials, [Form Fracture] and [Dissolution of the Self] seem to both fracture one's identity. Perhaps they share a similar reason, to remove an Ethos layer-limiters, to induce Melange bleedthrough, ones identity will fracture and it's only a matter of compatibility and care that will see that identity brought back together, like Kintsugi. What is a Melange bleedthrough?
Oh man, [Dissolution of the Self], I just noticed/realized something more for this part of the blurb, "The False Divine will not protect you, Dissolution is your only salvation." The Dissolution that it is referring to is [Dissolution of the Self], not Lilly's own dissolution (well yes, in a way).
Also it seems like the Ethos is written/provided by the [Rapid Iterator] Entity/Spirit, not Aboleath. The clawing and biting and screaming and feeding and remakeing and feasting gives the blurb a predator-prey/untamed-wilds theming.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
[Form Fracture], [Dissolution of the Self] and our {Boundless Ethos} skill were almost assuredly all provided by Colossi/one of Colossi's sublets, which is probably also the entity we met outside of Harmuph. I'd bet that the attack it used against us is also what caused [Dissolution of the Self] to be among the offered Ethos picks. The [Rapid Iterator] being one of the things that sublet corrupted I'd bet.
I don't think that this is related to the Second Integration stage goal though. Colossi's arrival is probably what caused the 7th Era to begin, as it's not interested in what the Angels and Demons were busy doing before, but only in destroying and eating everything.
Also: while we're on the topic, idk if this has been mentioned before, but I noticed this when looking at the Foundational Ethos list recently:
I suspect that Integration Vectors might not just be something a Weaver creates and then sends out, but something that is part of its Weaver, and by anchoring them into the souls of humans in the Melange Layer, they anchor themselves in the Melange Layer. My guess would be that they're trying to do what Yarlsfreet and Pithe did, but on a scale that allows a lot more of them to do so. Currently however human souls are too weak and brittle to contain much of the enormity of the Weavers' existence, which is why they're trying to up the strength of human souls and make 2nd Integration Stages widespread.
If everyone's angling to get as much of themself into the Melange Layer as possible, that also explains why the worst punishment that they could face would be to get identity-wiped and have their Integration Vectors put at the back of the queue:
Considering that, [Championed Uplift]'s purpose would be to identify humans that are suitable to have a larger presence of the Weaver integrated into their soul (I'd expect that's what Melange Bleedthrough refers to) after they've passed the identity fracture trial (presumably identity fracture happens/is necessary to allow melange bleedthrough to happen).
Considering that we know that a soul resembles the melange layer, maybe having the layer-limiters removed would allow a Weaver to do the same thing Yarlsfreet did, but on the scale of a soul instead of the entire plane? That'd integrate them so thoroughly with the person they'd maybe become a new source type for that person that only they can access?
Also sidenote: from Mindstate!Lilly we know that Marcus is scheduled for a Premium Allocation when he receives his Ethos, so presumably he'd be eligible for this.
- Location
- Europe
The Maw shadow is too much hinted in the Evie interlude to be just something distant that Colossi is using to achieve its goals. To not talk on how the latter is a sublet of the first, which imply the presence of a direct subordinate/master relation between the two.
No, I think Colossi may be just the one that is currently dealing with us and Flower. If it is also doing something else, like dealing with other bloomlings, we don't know.
The real problem is the Maw, and it it is probably why the seventh era began in the first place. That a sublet would be strong enough to completely twist all of what spirits, demons, and angels have ever accomplished is possible, but extremely unlikely (unless we are secretly just a part of a multiverse, but I don't think we should consider this possibility yet as it is too much remote and it was never hinted before).
Also, I think it is unlikely that NullError is a sublet of Colossi; it is implied it has existed for too long for that being the case. The child thing was probably its lamentation on how, like Evie, it also died recently before returning.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We have no idea how long NullError existed, Concordance goes both in the past and the future. For all we know the warning is generated by analysing future actions of NullError, not past ones.
- Location
- Europe
I don't think there is enough future to create a pattern; in less than 4 years from now, the apocalypse will start and concordance is already becoming difficult to understand for other concordance users. And it's not like a spirit is free to interact directly with the melange layer for too much time, so I don't know from where {The Ladder} would take the information.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't think we know anywhere close to enough about the limitations of entities like NULLERROR to really judge that. Even if NULLERROR only intervened twice a year since the start of the 7th Era (assuming that it arrived along with the Maw/Colossi) that'd be up to 24 different instances Concordance would have access to to make an assessment. But we don't even know if acting twice a year would be a lot or a little for an entity at the level of the Divine, so that's literally nothing but guesswork either way.
- Location
- Europe
The seventh era didn't start with Lilly's birth. We are probably at least less than 10 years into it at this point. Because only recently the pocket dimension in which Evie was in was busted, something which she didn't expect to happen in the way it did, maybe we haven't been in this era even for that long.
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- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Hmmm, thinking about the pocket dimensions... might the Dreamscape be one? Or the beginnings of one? Or perhaps a fragment of one?
We don't really know enough about pocket dimensions in general to know how common they are, how important they are, and other such things. We don't even know if there are other humans out there with access to their own. It might be something to investigate someday now that Lilly is better able to understand non-Euclidian geometry. Maybe see if we can learn to use {Geometer} to physically travel between the 'normal world' and other dimensions. It might be a way to bring people we want to protect into a very secure location if we could physically pull them into our Dreamscape.
We don't really know enough about pocket dimensions in general to know how common they are, how important they are, and other such things. We don't even know if there are other humans out there with access to their own. It might be something to investigate someday now that Lilly is better able to understand non-Euclidian geometry. Maybe see if we can learn to use {Geometer} to physically travel between the 'normal world' and other dimensions. It might be a way to bring people we want to protect into a very secure location if we could physically pull them into our Dreamscape.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
hence my use of "up to"
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Temporal redeemer implies there is more to Concordance than simply the past and future and that they can be traversed. A vector that is beyond the causal. Bits and pieces of concordance that are not linked to the main timeline, or timelines.
I feel like [Stray Vector} is more likely to have that functionality. Evie can move trough 4 dimensions, she seemingly has no Essence so I'd assume her stray vector works on separate rules.
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- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Another thing to consider when talking about Nullerror is that he claims to be a master of Concordance use and is able to fully explain how it works to a newb. So Ladder telling us anything about him is probably something he allowed or at least knew it what it was going to say in advance. Hell he could have sent a fake report of that he totally was capricious and vindictive in order to subtly influence Lily towards taking his deal. Or maybe even a self proclaimed master can't completely hide his dirty laundry and character from the Concordance 🤷♂️ who knows?
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
I super want [Limited Cordinate] because that sounds like a power that can create a timeline that is separate from any other timeline. Like that tiny island from the game Bastion.
Lilly makes her own concordant coordinates that are not affected by the end of the world plots and stabilises it with the Tower, imposition for example.
It might be very useful for blocking and fighting off other concordant powers. Simply closing the doors people would use to attack, or limiting how far your actions propagate through the metaphorical ruberg machine.
There once time has run asunder, perhaps ride out the end till the new universe, or try to restart the 7th. Yet it's too far in the future to speculate. Only an amusing fantasy at the moment.
Lilly makes her own concordant coordinates that are not affected by the end of the world plots and stabilises it with the Tower, imposition for example.
It might be very useful for blocking and fighting off other concordant powers. Simply closing the doors people would use to attack, or limiting how far your actions propagate through the metaphorical ruberg machine.
There once time has run asunder, perhaps ride out the end till the new universe, or try to restart the 7th. Yet it's too far in the future to speculate. Only an amusing fantasy at the moment.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
One thing I was wondering about: Why does [Towering Edifice To Heaven] actually have Relations as one of its powers? By that I mean: what's the intended use case of Relations in a Dungeon? Is that how the dungeon binds and empowers its Boss monsters? Cause generally I'd assume it wouldn't use it for messing with people's Ethea, that's what [Library of Achievement] is for after all.
- Location
- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
In the context of a Dungeon, Relations probably would be used to link to 'elite' or 'boss' monsters or minions. Or at least the Major links (and possibly higher, I can't help but notice there are a few more empty slots below Major, so there might be Greater or Superior or whatever links as well). Minor links seem more like they're for manipulating things; they attach and detach easily, and we've already seen that they can be used for soul repairs. They might be the basic 'appendages' used by what should have been an immobile Core to interact with its Dungeon and the inhabitants thereof. If the Core were a 'player' in a dungeon management game, the Major links would be elite henchmen that could be directly controlled, while the Minor links would be like 'cursors' used to select, activate, and order basic creatures around maybe?
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- They/Them
yeah, something like that is probably the intended use, and because our version is severely jailbroken we get to do stuff like the Ethos manipulation with it that should be under the purview of more specialised Foundationals I'd imagine.
- Location
- Somewhere.
I imagine it's probably used for monster crossbreeding.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Notice that Towering Edifice is Deific, as in follows arbitrary rules. And this one is specifically designed to mess with people's souls, upgrade their ethos, give artifacts, get them to be better so they could resist a geneside event. It probably has access to all the toolsets.
Upscale investment arbitrarily makes no sense as a phrase, but I assume that it means scaling is restricted to bungee to the level of those facing the dungeon. That would explain why it's so weak and limited at the moment, cause the only one within its domain is Lilly herself.
Toolset:
Relations
Dissolution
Imposition
Constructs
Entities
Entities themselves are the domain of making and possibly modifying monsters and other life.
Not all dungeons are monster boxes. Like the Legend and concordance ones, they too are likely to tie new parts into the challengers' souls, upgrade them, reward adventurers. Imposition and Relations may be the main rewarding vectors. Constructs too, but for physical loot. Of course, they allow upgrading existing traps, rooms, monsters, puzzles, and whatever else.
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- Location
- Milky Way
It means that it is not allowed to be conquered/domesticated completely and so if necessary it is allowed to be strengthened to prevent that.
Its weak/limited because it is currently unpacking/integrating.
Toleration of Domestication has not been granted for this iteration, upscale investment arbitrarily to resist any long term group suppression.
Given the first half of the sentence, it sounds like it's saying that they aren't allowing it to be claimed as a farming ground (Toleration of Domestication I assume means something to that effect) so I think "upscale investment arbitrarily" means something like "introduce random difficulty spikes to dissuade any farmers/grinders" (long term group suppression.) Arbitrarily because if the difficulty spikes followed a hard ruleset, that could be figured out and incorporated into the grinding strategy.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That paragraph doesn't mention anything about messing with Ethea though. "Pseudo-matter imposition constraints" I'd assume refers to any artifacts or other rewards it spits out to those who run the dungeon successfully. "upscale investment arbitrarily" probably means that in order to avoid the dungeon being put on farm by those it's meant to help out (that's probably what Domestication refers to), it can be fed as much gravitas as necessary to keep them on their toes and keep the experience challenging.
The way I read the description:
The way I read the description:
It's to be placed in a conflict where one side has become overpowered and threatens to exterminate the other side. The goal is to strengthen the losers to recreate an equilibrium where both are challenging each other. (side-note: I fully expect that Goblinoids and other species also have Integration Vectors and are part of the larger plan, the conflict is probably yet another building block in helping the inhabitants of the Melange Layer grow stronger over time as they threaten and challenge each other)
The dungeon is allowed to generate phat loot to stabilise the situation, but needs to be careful that what it spits out doesn't synergise too well with what the target population already has access to and accidentally tips the power balance the other way again.
Initial monsters that the dungeon sends out to make other aware of it shouldn't be too strong because the faction where it gets dropped is currently weak and shouldn't be accidentally erased. (though I'm not 100% sure how redistribution fits into the picture here, is pushing civilian populations out of contested areas part of the intended use of the dungeon?)
The dungeon should not be farmable by anyone.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
I don't understand at all how any of these things relate to Lilly and what Lilly has done with [Towering Edifice to Heaven]. There is potential to cross-reference but I'm not seeing anything.
But you're right about goblins likely having integration vectors. Maybe a lesser sapient species.
Another note is that the [Rapid Iterator] was able to give Flow ethos and Essence ethos, possibly others too, to its Entities. So the dungeons can do weird stuff like that. Relations allows us to give versions of our ethos to others.
Tying special powers to them may be the work of relations, or alternatively, some messed up exploit.
Unless creating empowered entities is part of Entity creation itself. Growing them with desired powers right away. It takes a deer as a base and then iterates on it, turning it into one of its Essence manipulating entities. Designed to manipulate Essence space from the onset.
But you're right about goblins likely having integration vectors. Maybe a lesser sapient species.
Another note is that the [Rapid Iterator] was able to give Flow ethos and Essence ethos, possibly others too, to its Entities. So the dungeons can do weird stuff like that. Relations allows us to give versions of our ethos to others.
Tying special powers to them may be the work of relations, or alternatively, some messed up exploit.
Unless creating empowered entities is part of Entity creation itself. Growing them with desired powers right away. It takes a deer as a base and then iterates on it, turning it into one of its Essence manipulating entities. Designed to manipulate Essence space from the onset.
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