'Density should never drop below a single instance per 20000 square kilometres in identified high-magic regions' What fuck does this mean? Like I'm just having trouble trying to understand. Is it saying you can't have a room over 20km^2 or that is 20km^2 the minimum size. Probably closer to the former than the later though I'm not sure if instance is dungeon rooms. Is instance the physical domain of the dungeon? Cause that may make more sense you don't want your dungeon being too big/too small especially since this seems like a messing around dungeon than something involving the Plan(tm).
'Sideline regions may diverge upward to one per 200000.' You can make your element amusement park 10 times bigger if it's in an area we don't give a shit about. Wonder if a region having high-magic is the difference to the Weavers between an important area and a sidelined one. Cause if it's not than what is the rule for a high-magic sidelined area? Is it 20km^2 or 200km^2?
This is saying that in a high magic region, the amount of elemental dungeons should never fall below one per 2000 square km. And in lower magic regions, the amount allowed is lowered, at most one per 200000 square km. Its nothing about the size here. Instead its about how many dungeons should exist on the map.
'2nd Integration Stage Initializer' So this is used to get people to the 2nd Integration stage which might be the 2nd Milestone thing that's on our sheet. Which I guess the 2nd Milestone is such a big deal that the Weavers designed an entire dungeon for it
This is not about our second milestone. Instead its likelytied to Melange layer limiters, which was an option listed for a potential thing Evie could do. Its fairly normal for people to get to their second milestone, you are expected one milestone expansion around every 5 levels.
This is more likely about removing various safeties installed on most ethos. In exchange for more power.
This is saying that in a high magic region, the amount of elemental dungeons should never fall below one per 2000 square km. And in lower magic regions, the amount allowed is lowered, at most one per 200000 square km. Its nothing about the size here. Instead its about how many dungeons should exist on the map.
That quote is missing a zero in the first value, 20000 should be the right one. And 200000 for the second, that one is correct.
In translation, within a 400x500 km rectangle, there should be at least one Malleable Elemental Pioneer in low mana areas, and a 125x160 km rectangle for high mana areas.
Who writes these Foundational Ethos descriptions? It's like they assume the reader already knows what they do... does anyone even use a manual in the divine realms?
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We should be prepared for the possibility that there is some external complication that precipitates Myah being strangled; that it's not just her father we'll have to deal with. In particular, Waters' agents at work in Harumph, investigating anyone who may have known Lilly (or just scaring her father due to the presence of authority, canvassing the area with sensors)...
If the precipitating event was external, the father may not be willing to let her go, with said event not having happened yet. In this event, I propose telling her we had someone use divination on "bad things that will happen to Lilly", and Myah's strangulation came up (it's even technically the truth). So please, Myah, run away to my soon-to-be burned down house and never return?
In addition to Myah's fear of being found out, she likely also fears accidentally draining Lilly; preemptively describe to her our bottomless essence well: "Remember what happened last time? (In addition to not punching you in the face, my greatest regret... it makes sense in context.) Well, join me, and you'll never go hungry again!"
(In retrospect, we should have voted in a bit more of a description of how to recruit Myah.)
So this is something I'm confused about. How the heck is a lot of peoples level roughly their age (at least till around 40 ish). The amount of exp or gravitas one needs to level up increases quadratically. So like to increase between level 19 to level 20 you need like 21k exp and to increase between level 29 to 30 is about 46,500 exp.
I guess to a fair extent the answer might be that as you get better with your ethos as you age and level up you learn how to essentially generate more gravitas easier, but i feel like the age=level thing doesnt quite make much sense.
So this is something I'm confused about. How the heck is a lot of peoples level roughly their age (at least till around 40 ish). The amount of exp or gravitas one needs to level up increases quadratically. So like to increase between level 19 to level 20 you need like 21k exp and to increase between level 29 to 30 is about 46,500 exp.
I guess to a fair extent the answer might be that as you get better with your ethos as you age and level up you learn how to essentially generate more gravitas easier, but i feel like the age=level thing doesnt quite make much sense.
You get Gravitas by doing the things your Ethos makes you good at.
Presumably, once someone gets their Ethos, they find a career that regularly employs it, because otherwise they would be outcompeted by everyone else.
Therefore, everyone in the world is constantly training their Ethos, every day.
Fighting dungeon monsters seems to be an anomaly in how it always gives you Gravitas, but since the whole point behind Dungeons seems to primarily be 'Stimulate activity from local Integrators in one form or another', that seems reasonable.
You get Gravitas by doing the things your Ethos makes you good at.
Presumably, once someone gets their Ethos, they find a career that regularly employs it, because otherwise they would be outcompeted by everyone else.
Therefore, everyone in the world is constantly training their Ethos, every day.
Fighting dungeon monsters seems to be an anomaly in how it always gives you Gravitas, but since the whole point behind Dungeons seems to primarily be 'Stimulate activity from local Integrators in one form or another', that seems reasonable.
Yeah but my issue here is less that they get Gravitas at their jobs and more that since the requirements increase so much each level, I'd expect the rough year per level thing to change much much sooner.
Remind me again, what are the examples of people's levels we know of? I can't actually remember any aside from Lilly's parents from Optimizer!Lilly's vision, and Marigold.
Remind me again, what are the examples of people's levels we know of? I can't actually remember any aside from Lilly's parents from Optimizer!Lilly's vision, and Marigold.
I'll fully explain things once you and Mathew get a chance to talk about how it all works if you live through tonight.
But expansions = level ups. (Just makes everything slightly better)
Milestone expansions = level ups with a new ability (which is every time for Lilly so far). Mathew said this happens about one in five normally. So you'd expect a Level 50 to have 10ish.
Dynamic Shifts = level ups where the core stats of your Ethos significantly improve in some way (Lilly gained Directed Pithe Shaping), about once every 30 levels on average. Lilly got one on her 5th level up.
Up to 40 you can reasonably expect someone to be the same level as their age, after that all kinds of special conditions and restrictions start really narrowing the field. Mathew said Lilly shouldn't expect to ever top level 50. But there are some famous people presumably well past 100. Ethos are not the only magic system at work in this world though, so using someones level to estimate strength is a poor metric.
Yeah, that is weird... and feels artificial. Gravitas collection scales quadratically with age to facilitate one expansion/year? Sounds like a part of the mysterious Plan the divines are carrying out on humanity.
Probably the gravitas circuits have a really high capacity but are intentionally limited, with the limiters being increasingly removed. Though the alternative, of simply attaching more and more gravitas sources for people who've proved able to survive, may also be the case.
If the divines are indeed breeding a more divine human, then this may be the max safe rate of increase a human soul can currently take (with the safe rate steadily up-ed as the generations go by).
Bloomlings and similar can either:
Safely accomodate more
Are given more out of favoritism (assuming that limited growth is actually due to misery rather than safety)
Or, are part of the "do or die" evolutionary tactic as so eloqently put by Evie:
Given the blithe non-consideration of divines like Evie, and Marigold's own precarious situation, I find this last option disturbingly likely.
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Addendum: something else that happens exactly once per year: the Long Night (when everyone gets extremely tired, their energy being spent on... what?). Food for thought.
Or alternately, you get more Gravitas from doing more difficult things, which let you do even more difficult things to generate more gravitas? Such that up until level 40, your growth generally tracks with your age?
40 probably is just the cap where you need a direct patron or you need to be one of those Premium Integrators to get past the patron requirements.
Doing the math, I've found that the progression is not so outlandish (even if unlikely)... but if you compare it back to what Lilly's been receiving, it's clear that "just doing more difficult things" is not the only parameter in play.
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The quadratic progression is not so weird if you start counting from level/year 20, by which time the ethos has presumably stabilized at 1 expansion per year.
Dream within the Forest has XP requirement 50x^2 + 150x + 100. The 20th expansion costs 23100 XP, and the 40th expansion 86100 XP, so 3.72 times more. It's not out of the question to do 3.72 times more work at 40 than at 20.
Now, it's still highly questionable, because... the entire population (or enough that you have a "reasonable expectation" of such)? Does everyone in this world have the same work ethic? Someone who works half as much as someone else (from 20 to 40) should expect to be 10 levels behind. Are there no 10x workers or 0.25x workers? This is the first hint that there is more to the issue than a simple matter of work.
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Finally... what about Lilly?
Maids of 40 years are casually getting 86100 XP for cleaning stuff. Is surviving the Chase to Harumph really worth only 1443 XP, or 1.7% as much? (That's basically 6 days of cleaning... watch out for the lethal dust-wolves?)
Similarly, was her saving of everyone's lives in the forest really worth only 3127 XP, or 13 days of cleaning? I guess Martin needs to up his standards.
No... this discrepancy can't be accounted for by mere achievements/work. There really must be a widening of the gravitas circuits as one grows older.
Or milstones change exp requierments.
If you look into cells U21 and below you see that it says about the 2nd milestone exp requierment is reset to zero instead of needed exp increases.
I'd also put forward that regular Ethea might not have the same Gravitas costs for leveling up as they do for us. Consider that we're unusual both in having multiple Ethea and that our Ethea gain new subskills with every level. Neither of that is true for regular Ethos holders and might affect how much Gravitas is needed to level up. Maybe we'd only have a linear progression if we didn't get new subskills on every level. I'd be somewhat careful in trying to map the numbers straight from Lilly to the general population.
Or milstones change exp requierments.
If you look into cells U21 and below you see that it says about the 2nd milestone exp requierment is reset to zero instead of needed exp increases.
That is also possible but means there also needs to be way to increase the max grasp of ethea beyond 10.
We will find out when [Dream within the Forest] levels up the next time.
You know, it occurs to me that Yolun has serious trauma regarding his sister being killed by a noble. And while he was indisposed, Lilly ended up in an inevitable conflict with a noble.
It wasn't Lilly's fault in the slightest, but that's still something we have to look out for once Yolun is healed of the corruption.
You know, it occurs to me that Yolun has serious trauma regarding his sister being killed by a noble. And while he was indisposed, Lilly ended up in an inevitable conflict with a noble.
It wasn't Lilly's fault in the slightest, but that's still something we have to look out for once Yolun is healed of the corruption.
It's unclear whether Marigold is just being ironic in her internal monologue, or if her mind actually has been twisted to see her needs as the "kindness" of strangers "supporting" her.
You'll notice she was very careful to not directly antagonise anyone until they'd already shown their true colours. Until then she was most concerned that they'd just tell her to leave.
I was deliberately obtuse, but you'll note that whenever she's talking about 'support' or 'accommodation' or even 'help' those are all words that could refer to doing that by attacking her. When she notices that some smiled warmly and a few leered, her comment that at least a few seemed like the right sort was referencing the leerers.
He was actually just a genuinely good guy. Despite being the youngest there and surrounded by men far more threatening than himself who were all going along with it, he did nothing. You could still assign him blame for doing nothing, but realistically he couldn't have helped. 15 year old boys are not exactly famous for maintaining integrity in the face of peer pressure from adult men.
The dialogue definitely made it seem like it was a 0% chance; Waters didn't sound like the type to care about anything other than his own self-aggrandizement. I wonder if Waters' personality was influenced by the roll... then again, with already a 40% chance of pulling this stunt, it probably wasn't influenced all that much.
Consent isn't really a word used with any special meaning in medieval society, no more so than any other crimes. A woman traveling on her own with barely anything packed is practically advertising that she is planning to get by on trading something else instead (and everything about Marigold's demenour is designed to put them in that frame of mind). Mind you, any other woman would have been horrified if it jumped straight to Andrew's forceful approach, but that's partly on Marigold for deliberately goading him there; she was impatient.
If Lilly had of walked up to them in the night asking for directions or something, the group would have sent her on her way without much fuss. She's obviously capable of traveling on her own and not looking for a handout.
In fact they'd probably have been cordial even if she was asking for help, she's visibly young enough to fall outside the usual social paradigm that adult women do; it would be assumed no unspoken offers were on the table.
Just to calm any worries, most men in this world are not going to randomly brutalize/kill any vulnerable woman they come across. Several cultural features that are abhorrent to a modern reader are pervasive here, but people are not inherently more evil than a normal human.
People are also not idiots; if they run into an obscenely powerful Lilly wielding obvious magics, that is going to be more important than the fact she is a woman.
@Slyvena I almost don't want to ask but given the general if not exact date someone gets their Ethos is knowable, is this sort of thing common in an attempt to encourage Ethea like Service to Man?
No need. Mothers instill the right traits in their children and there is an overriding cultural momentum such than even girls like Lilly are still more likely than not to have it as an option. Ceremonys are helpful if you are aiming for something more specific.
Even if people don't particular care, they understand brides can tend to be nervous and uncertain around a new husband, which could bring on a more self-serving or protective Ethos than what's desirable. Marigold's Ethos showing up blindsided everyone.
Yeah but my issue here is less that they get Gravitas at their jobs and more that since the requirements increase so much each level, I'd expect the rough year per level thing to change much much sooner.
True for combat focused that are still actively pursuing expansion. Drop-off plateaus are a constant soft cap that many become stuck in.
Non-combatants tend to suffer drop-off much easier, but some rare examples can keep pace with the 'Roughly your age' rule at least at first.
You'd expect a 12 year old to catch up to their age by about 20 years old.
Beyond 40 years, things like getting the support necessary to cover your weaknesses, gaining access to threshold breakers and outright attrition of attention from getting caught up in geopolitical responsibility all start being heavy burdens even before escalating Gravitas/Action/Patron/Etc requirements are taken into account. People hit plateaus they can't break grasp thresholds on, or outright die attempting to break them.
The 'same as age' rule does hold out (if getting less reliable) after 40, but a factor in that is that those who have failed are being whittled from the population so there is a survivors bias in the measured results.
We'll get into it next chapter, but people beyond level 100 are continentally relevant fixtures in human society with influence and abilities that entire nations shape their strategies around.
Cirella the Siren being a known example. Her song-link is helpful with ordinary men sure, but the tactical considerations it opens up when combined with other very high-level Ethos redefine her nation's relevance.
/\ People other than Lilly having more than one Ethos is unconfirmed. Even presuming they don't, that does not mean multi-Ethos synergy is an unexplored concept in this world.
I've been hemming and hawing making this post for some time now, but it really does need to be said.
Bravo! Two thumbs up! A round of applause!
To Slyvena! For their work and dedication in making a system and world so well developed. Not to mention the characters! One chapter of Mary, and I already want more. Though, with this quest, I should definitely be careful what I wish for. For doing all of this, and presenting it to people like me.
To the Questers! For putting so much thought, and engaging in such debate, that this story hasn't already ended in tragedy. Not only that, but even managing to pull off impressive combos and making me hopeful for Lilly's chances. Even if the world seems intent to not give her, and thus the Questers as well, a break.
I do lament the fact that I haven't been more involved with this quest, and that I haven't gone full theory crafting mode, but maybe one day. Until then, just know that this story is one that consistently brightens my day. Know that even with minimal engagement, I appreciate each chapter and the work that goes into it.
Just to calm any worries, most men in this world are not going to randomly brutalize/kill any vulnerable woman they come across. Several cultural features that are abhorrent to a modern reader are pervasive here, but people are not inherently more evil than a normal human.
People are also not idiots; if they run into an obscenely powerful Lilly wielding obvious magics, that is going to be more important than the fact she is a woman.
That's good to hear. I know we're dealing with an extremely small sample size composed of interludes about two rather violent people in shitty situations in a shitty world, but that both of them were assaulted in maybe a couple of minutes at the outside by people that just happened to cross their path was a little disturbing.
Ozzy is pretty much ubiquitous, but that is just indicative of our cultural obsession with taking every word and changing it to some other form (usually shorthand).
MacDonalds - Maccas
Sandwich- Sanga
Service Station - Servo
Afternoon - Arvo
Good day my friend - G'day mate. (more rural)
Friend/Acquaintance/Person/Asshole - Mate
Hey you - Oi
Australia - Down under
A Woman - Sheila (more rural)
Barbeque - barbie Throw a shrimp on the barbie - If an Australian says this to you they are taking the piss.
Taking the Piss - Making fun of you.
In this particualr case;
Australian - Ozzy/Aussie/Ozzie
