What can I say, you and Lost corrupted me.
Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!
- Thread starter Crystalwatcher
- Start date
- Original
Huh. I'm quite curious about that, although I understand it's probably all spoilers, since we haven't really seen anything that would make that extra health useful.
Right now Nepgear's Effective Health is 840,000. For comparison here are the Top Ten highest Effective Healths, excluding Divine Beings, we know of:
- Grand Archangel Gabriel = 750,000
- Archangel Gabriel = 350,000
- Messenger Assault Platform = 310,000
- Goddess Gold = 220,000
- Goddess White = 150,000
- Hero WEAPON = 77,000
- Maiden of the East = 66,000
- Maiden of the West = 65,000
- Nightmare of Crimson = 50,000
- Angel WEAPON = 45,000
On top of that Nepgear generates 630,000 Health per turn. Since that happens at the start of each turn you could technically say Nepgear's Effective Health is actually 1,470,000 which put her at having twice as much as the second highest. It also means any enemy, or group of enemies, incapable of pumping out at least 630,000 damage per turn can't even wear Nepgear down.
Furthermore Nepgear can currently no-sell any attack less then 8,976 that doesn't have some kind of defense penetrating ability. While I haven't completed my list of stats from every character, yet, out of the 92 I have recorded only six can hit that kind of damage. Although I haven't tracked how many have anti-armor stuff it doesn't matter since the majority (7,276 damage which only 9 characters can exceed) of that no-selling comes from ICORE which only three abilities can penetrate:
- Unstoppable
- Supremacy
- Total Devastation
With Nepgear's Effective Health the only threats we know of are the extreme high damage spells. Here are a list of the spells, on the front page anyway since I haven't stated recording a list of all the character's spells yet, that can significantly harm Nepgear:
- Sudden Death = Auto-Kill
- Death of the Will (Planet Cracker mode) = 20,000,000
- V.I.C.T.O.R.Y. = 10,999,989
- Oblivion Awaits = 10,000,000
- Lucky's War Book: METEOR = 2,242,500
- Celestial Severance = 1,638,400
- War Book: METEOR = 442,500
- Time Freeze = 225,000
- End Game + Burst Stream of Obliteration (Minimum) = 127,425
The next two, one of which is Nepgear's spell, would be instant kills except ICORE counters that and leaves us with 1hp. We'd need ICORE Level 52 to survive them through sufficient Health alone. Even then that would only leave us with 187 Health, 37,400 Effective Health.
The next three are so insanely powerful that even the weakest, Oblivion Awaits, would require ICORE level 246 to survive. Fortunately both V.I.C.T.O.R.Y. and Death of the Will (Planet Cracker mode) may be stopped by ICORE since they lack the abilities specifically stated as bypassing it's "Get Out Of Death Free" card:
Basically my point is that barring massive XP investment, 12,060xp for Level 52 and 300,150xp for Level 246, or some other damage reduction ability we don't effectively become any more difficult to kill then we already are. So unless there are a bunch of enemies who fall into that >600k/turn damage but less then 2 million damage range it's just not a worthwhile investment.
*sees a bunch of new posts while I was writing this*
I'll respond to those shortly!
Well, it'd make a nasty surprise for someone down the road...
Shooting, Intercepting, Parrying, Stabbing.
Nepgear absolutely needs to get it somewhat under control while it's still at a size where failed control attempts are manageable, because it lets her start at a lower collateral damage step for the next tier. It's not even hard, we got lots of things to upgrade that aren't Purifier Beam.
Say she controls the beam by cutting the spray down by 50%. Then she gains four times as much dakka. Leaving her at only twice the spray rather than four times as her starting point in training, which is a great benefit for being able to train without going into orbit.
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Well, we also just got confirmation that controlling it when using melee attacks is way easier than when using ranged attacks (which makes sense), so that's at least something.
It could also be that the whole "magic works like people expect it to work" thing kicks in and makes it so that once we learn how to reduce the power to a "don't accidentally anything" level, we retain that ability no matter how much stronger it gets. Because human magic works on concepts and the concept of "reduce this to something manageable" doesn't care about changes to the base output.
Except Nepgear has a high enough NST that barring odd damage comboing effects, which rapidly hit the point where nothing can defend against them, minions just can't touch her. It takes elite characters to even scratch Nepgear. Plus she is awesome at clearing away armies of mooks thanks to Starshine.
Math works out:Well, our defenses are already really crazy, and if I'm looking at the math correctly (mind double checking this @UberJJK?), we are currently capable of winning a fight against Goddess Gold by abusing the fact that we always get the initiative to take the first turn of battle. From the looks of things, we can now oneshot her with Celestial Severance before she gets a chance to beat us with Chains of the Earth or Oblivion Awaits.
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
1,639,800 Total Damage
Goddess Gold: 1000 Base Resilience, +1,000 Dice, +Epic Existence 400 = 2,400 Damage Reduction
1,637,400 Total End Damage
Armor of the King: Reduce damage by 75%
409,350 Final End Damage
Goddess Gold: 55,000 - 409,350 = -354,350
Except CS has Unstoppable which negates all Resistances so it should probably be more like:
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
1,639,800 Total Damage
Goddess Gold: 1000 Base Resilience, +1,000 Dice, +Epic Existence 400 = 2,400 Damage Reduction
1,637,400 Total End Damage
Armor of the King: Reduce damage by 75%
409,350 Final End Damage
Unstoppable!
Goddess Gold: 55,000 - 1,639,800 = -1,584,800
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
1,639,800 Total Damage
Goddess Gold: 1000 Base Resilience, +1,000 Dice, +Epic Existence 400 = 2,400 Damage Reduction
1,637,400 Total End Damage
Armor of the King: Reduce damage by 75%
409,350 Final End Damage
Goddess Gold: 55,000 - 409,350 = -354,350
Except CS has Unstoppable which negates all Resistances so it should probably be more like:
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
Celestial Severance: 819,200 Base Damage, +200 Dice, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 819,900 Total Damage
1,639,800 Total Damage
1,637,400 Total End Damage
Armor of the King: Reduce damage by 75%
409,350 Final End Damage
Unstoppable!
Goddess Gold: 55,000 - 1,639,800 = -1,584,800
Sneak Attacks depend upon how much, if anything at all, of Nepgear's defenses are active while she's not transformed. At a guess I'd say No Longer Human should be active since Nepgear doesn't have a normal human body in either form and I wouldn't be surprised if ICORE was still active since Nepgear is the CORE.
Edit Begins:
Actually since each casting of Starshine does ~25k damage and you can split them, and given that Nepgear can guide each individual bolt of Starshine it seems reasonable she can do this, she can dish out 25k damage to 4 targets per casting and with 4 APT she could theoretically hit 16 targets for 25k damage. Which might be enough to deal with Sub-Army groups of elites.
Edit Ends
We're definitely weak against Overwhelming Presences but I'm fairly sure running away is generally an option there, since APT is separate from regular actions like flying.
Hm. Thirty enemies would have to deal 21,001 a turn each to wear down Nepgear. I suppose that's within the realm of possibility but fairly unlikely since Nepgear has enough speed she can probably close to range. Plus Level 20 Purifier Beam would be throwing out at least 43,606 damage per attack five times per turn which very few things can take.
Things that bypass our hax are our greatest threat. There is also not much we can do about that besides get killy enough to kill them first or unlock new hax somehow.
You mean the ability that is going to screw us over and cause more friendly fire thanks to automatic intercepts with a weapon that causes Apocalyptic destruction? Oh and the ability that killed Truth!
Don't believe me on that last bit? Purifier Beam got slapped with Apocalypse because of it:
Without that there is a chance Truth might not have got hit by the full power of our Purifier Beam.
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Combo's would be the big killer. Besides, not all of them would be mooks, who are the ablative shielding to allow the bigger guns to get-in close and rip her to shreds.
She was being held in Blue Sky's grip, and Blue Sky was facing Nepgear's attack. She was close enough that it wouldn't have changed anything but the size and consistency of the resulting body.
You messed up the calculation (not that it really matters, due to Unstoppable)! Gold only has 1000 Base Resilience. 15000 is her Base Damage.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Unstoppable only negates the things in damage calculation and doesn't negate things which affect final end damage (such as Armor of the King and Indestructible Core). As I understand it, both Unstoppable and Supremacy negate all the + modifiers to damage resistance, but Unstoppable also negates Base Resilience whereas Supremacy negates all the stuff that happens to final end damage.
If it's a large squad of high class demons casting spells at us, then that could easily happen.
Also, I'm not sure if the auto-intercept feature of Supremacy Zone is subject to the limitations of our attacks per turn or not.
By sneak attacks, I was also including stuff like what Sixth Heaven did. Also, what are your thoughts on the threat of powerful super fast things?
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
I would very like to get to a point where not even the elites can touch us, but I'm willing to wait for that. The point is, enough massed bodies can in fact hurt us, and I wish to avoid that.
One possible method of dealing with things that bypass our Resilience and 'no-sell everything below 99% of your health' would be to get more health, so as to ensure we don't die as fast.
I was referring to the fact that because we stopped thinking about efficiency for one plan, we were able to unlock a second Super Ability that is going to help us immensely in the right situations, like Operation Charon. Gore has already given an explanation as to how Truth would still have been killed without it.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
Anyway, I probably need to get started on the update.
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
...why do I get the feeling that the Dark Lord fits Prime Evil Slayer's target definitions?
Anyway, I probably need to get started on the update.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
... Why wouldn't he?
That's kinda the problem. Take Goddess Red's Spawns of Chaos:
It only takes 1,500 of those to hit a million Base Damage. There is 90% chance of Goddess Red rolling 3,000 which puts the Base Damage up to 1,998,000. Throw in Coming of the End and it takes a mere 500, 98.34% chance, to hit a million damage per attack of which they have two per turn. This is of course without Goddess Red's Overwhelming Presence.Army of the Apocalypse
Level 30
Base Damage: N/A
Magic Modifier: 30,000
Affinity: Horror | Epic
Ability: Grand Summoning | Legion
The Soldiers of the End
-Army of the Apocalypse summons one Spawn of Chaos per point of the Modifier Roll.
- (Goddess Red) (Unified Darkness) Spawn of Chaos
Soldiers of the End
- Stats
- Weapon
- Abilities
Anyway my point is it takes relatively small armies to hit massive combo damage.
It's a good thing Starshine deals 15,103,000 damage against armies then. Or that Celestial Severance makes anything foolish enough to close in to try and rip Nepgear to shreds dead meat.
Ssh! I can dream!
...
You Saw Nothing!
Eh. When something says:
I tend to believe it negates all resistances. After all it negates 2/3rds of ICORE. The only part it doesn't negate, the 99% reduction, is likely down to the fact it's something that explicitly cannot be bypassed:
I didn't consider Supremacy Zone, since odds are in such a situation we wouldn't be flying. That is why Nepgear can do with her regular actions.
Hm. On one hand we can't attack, defend (except passively), or retreat from them. On the other hand aerial attacks are limited to once per turn so unless they have a massively high damaging spell then it's not a real big concern.
If you mean super fast things as in people with crazy high numbers of APT well the answer there is grabbing more levels in Flight, also the answer for the above, and Purifier Beam so we can just Intercept them to death.
Ah, I think you might have missed what was being talked about there. Juggernaut Drive's spear bypasses our Hax by combining a damage of "Target's Health" with "Scale to Target" meaning she always deals enough multiples of our Health to blow through Nepgear's defenses and one shot her.
It's an auto-death spell, like Red Rose's, which are a problem for us since they can bypass all our defensive hax. No levels of ICORE help there. Likely on purpose since from what I can tell one of the foundations of this setting's magic is that Offense trumps Defense and that there is nothing, not even concepts, that can't be killed.
As I mentioned above enough bodies can kill anything because they can hit the millions or billions of damage with the sort of army sizes we're talking of.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
Quantity has a Quality all it's own.
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
True...true. Now what happens if we get hit by a spell with Grand Dispel, which stops all magic-use for a turn? Our big hitters just poof away and become useless to us, leaving us with only the Purifier Beam.
Locos_Docos
Eater of slightly aged toast
- Location
- 'round the corner
- Pronouns
- he him
*looks at latest upgrades*
Magical Girls generally fall under a theme or gimmick. Solid Core's seems to be raw numbers.
Magical Girls generally fall under a theme or gimmick. Solid Core's seems to be raw numbers.
Depends upon what is considered magic-use. If it's just spells then we're fine as Purifier Beam can deal some serious damage and, thanks (/shudder) to Apocalypse has enough splash to be fairly nasty to armies. This is best achieved by further upgrading Purifier Beam.
After all Purifier Beam level 20 gives 43,606 Base Damage, Level 25 gives 331,129 Base Damage, and Level 30 gives 2,514,505 Base Damage. Throw in something like Ray meaning we can likely just sweep the beam over an enemy army and kill massive amounts of them and it works fine as it's own standalone anti-army device.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
The Shit The Workshop Talks About During Update Process said:
Locos_Docos
Eater of slightly aged toast
- Location
- 'round the corner
- Pronouns
- he him
She's not wrong, you know.
Riding an angry monster over an enemy base before parachuting down. Sounds like something Ace Rimmer would do:
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
That is just wrong...
Locos_Docos
Eater of slightly aged toast
- Location
- 'round the corner
- Pronouns
- he him
Comedy based on character and real situations can be funny.
That's not to say abstract craziness doesn't have its merits, either.
That's not to say abstract craziness doesn't have its merits, either.
She just focuses on having a hardcore frame to fill with fluff.
Locos_Docos
Eater of slightly aged toast
- Location
- 'round the corner
- Pronouns
- he him
*sigh* Fine, I concede defeat.
Solid Core's theme is raw numbers. Solid Core's gimmick is the application of said numbers.
....And we all know what the QM is like when it comes to numbers.