[X] Plan Labor Division
Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!
- Thread starter Crystalwatcher
- Start date
- Original
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
In light of @justinkal's request. I added this to the Divine Being info dump:
Feel free to ask if you get any questions.
Feel free to ask if you get any questions.
Last edited:
If we assume the 7k nukes are the modern enhanced 40Mt ones that is an insane number. Spread such to avoid any overlapping and you can cause 3rd degree burns, with 100% certainty, over 45% of all land on Earth, you can pretty much flatten 6.9% of all land on Earth, and finally you can obliterate a full 1.4% of all land on Earth.
Why would they do this? There already exists road and rail mobile ICBM launchers. Admittedly they are Russian, not that that is really a problem with a unified earth government, but the SS-24 and SS-27 are well suited to this role without putting all your eggs in one basket.
Why would you want to replace ICBMs? The LGM-30 Minuteman can hit targets around, exact range is classified, 13,000km away while targets can at most only be 20,000km away on Earth. To give you an idea of the sort of scale 13,000km is here is a nuke on Nukemap, first radius drawing mapping program I thought of, with a thermal, yellow, radius of 13,000km. As you can see 13,000km is enough to cover basically the entire world.
Incidentally what Maria said, the glassing a continent, thing is incredibly hyperbolic. 180x 40Mt nukes is nowhere near enough. Australia, the smallest continent, clocks in at 7,633,565km^2. A 40Mt nuke has the following areas of effect:
Fireball: 56.1km^2
Lethal levels of blast radiation: 68.5km^2
20psi (total obliteration): 292km^2
5psi (non-military structures obliterated): 1,780km^2
3rd degree burns: 9,840km^2
Even being generous and treating "glassing" as "complete destruction" and using the 20psi distance you'd still only get glass 52,560km^2, 0.6%, of Australia's landmass. Hell even 3rd degree burns would only cover 1,771,200km^2, 23.25%, of the continent.Honestly 40Mt is shiny and all but it's not a practical weapon. A 40Mt nuke is something you use in a dick measuring contest between nations not a war. In a war you don't want big nukes you want lots of medium ones. Let's look at the LGM-30 Minuteman; the Minuteman-II could carry one 1.2Mt warhead while the Minuteman-III could carry three 350kt warheads. Under the same blast configurations here are the resulting areas of effect:
1.2Mt Warhead
Fireball: 3.39km^2
Lethal levels of blast radiation: 20.6km^2
20psi (total obliteration): 28.2km^2
5psi (non-military structures obliterated): 172km^2
3rd degree burns: 582km^2
350kt Warhead
Fireball: 1.27km^2
Lethal levels of blast radiation: 9.86km^2
20psi (total obliteration): 12.3km^2
5psi (non-military structures obliterated): 61.8km^2
3rd degree burns: 195km^2
Now as you can see the 1.2Mt warhead obviously causes more damage by itself but when you consider that there are three 350kt warheads you get:350kt Warhead x3
Fireball: 3.81km^2
Lethal levels of blast radiation: 29.58km^2
20psi (total obliteration): 36.9km^2
5psi (non-military structures obliterated): 185.4km^2
3rd degree burns: 585km^2
the Minuteman-III beats out the Minuteman-II on every measure. That's not even getting into the significant tactical and strategical advantages of being able to nuke many locations, the LGM-118 Peacekeeper carried up to twelve 350kt warheads, over being able to nuke one location really well.Of course given how crazy the power levels can get at the higher ends of this setting having some 40Mt nukes would be useful for taking out people who can no-sell less complete and total destruction. But in general if your fighting a war the ability to hit a dozen targets at once is just generally better.
Huh. That's interesting. I guess The Drives, or at least Solid Drive, can keep up their transformations for ages then? Otherwise why would she risk using up her time just looking pretty at the air field?
It's true! Nepgear can no-sell 4,070 damage which would be enough to flat out take out 7.5% of Solid Drive's Health. A fatal blow for Solid Drive, 25,865 damage, would deal a mere 4.1% (124 units) of Nepgear's health.
I'll look at the comments on my plan, that was made literally within an hour of me waking up, in a couple minutes.
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
No railways where they're going.
And pencil-pushers.
Pencil pushers are causing a lot of problems for the nukes. Bigger nukes, while less efficient, are flashier and egos in charge like flashier.
It's all really stupid, but the Counter Force is trying to work with what they got.
Depends, we've seen some defensive features on elite units which renders some creatures outright immune to any number of lower intensity attacks while a single higher would penetrate.
Typo alert.
Also, how would you classify something like Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (just for purposes of a well known example of a certain scale)? That scale seems to be much larger than the maximum allowed by Galactic Warfare, but much smaller than the minimum required for Universal Combat.
TTGL is on the scale of "my hands are the size of galaxies", and STTGL is "I'm smaller than the Universe, but larger than the Observable Universe, and TTGL fits inside my face".
So I'm taking the scale of roughly "more than 50 galaxies but less than half of a universe".
- Location
- UTC -6
Because of how flying combat works Gabriel would only be able to bisect one Hell Beast a turn. Much like a dogfight she'd spend most of her time maneuvering for the shot. To kill three per turn the beasts would have to be trying to tear her apart mid-air, which would be helpful for killing them swiftly.
Thanks to HSC and their high speed all of our fliers are immune to the Hell Beasts (cue Benny Hill), they only engage when they feel like it. So Judgment Core isn't in any danger from the Hell Beasts. We really don't want them to munch on the security teams, and their attack would force Judgment Core to relent in her destroying the Reaver waves. Kinda funny how quickly the beasties became mooks, if all of them attack Gabriel and get a x2 sync bonus they would hit her for ~4000 damage a turn -- vs Gabriel slicing 3 of them into pieces every turn. We mostly need to kill them so the Drives can get behind the support summoners.
Our plans seem mostly similar, except for how we split up the team. I put Lucky on the Messenger that Solid Core isn't defending because I wanted to have her (presumably) wide-area spells to act as artillery, since Solid Core has an apocalypse attack and Starshine the wide area damage is covered near her. Thus, I wanted Lucky to cover a different area than Solid Core. Samael can sort of act like artillery by buffing the security already present, but this isn't quite the same as an AOE spell.
Never anime-ize nuclear strategy. Japan's phobia of nukes is absurd to the point of absolute non-comprehension. They're even worse than Hollywood.
Considering how strategically significant nukes are, anybody that could be classified as a pencil pusher has absolutely no say in the mater. They would be shot if they attempted anything outright stupid. Literally, considering that this is the definition of a state secret.
Assuming political authorities have authorized the resource expenditure, the only people that have any input in developing the deployment plans are the ultra-experienced general staff and defense think tanks. The Messegers represent the sort of over concentration that every nuclear power explicitly goes out of their way to avoid like the plague, for more or less this exact situation. If anything, teleport/gate magic would push them into deluding their deployment platforms even more.
- Location
- UTC -6
There's a thought...
Maybe the things are so big because they have spell arrays that can directly teleport the nukes to a target. The capability to do so would be oh-so-classified, and it gives a reason to have the things be so large. It doesn't take a very large portal to send a nuke through either.
Familiar
The Vaguely Recognized
- Location
- Washington
God dang, this really puts things into perspective. Looking at it like this, it's insane that Nepgear can speak in [Concepts]. She speaks the language of beings that don't even realize she exists, let alone think to talk to her. Have you ever thought to talk to a quark in a proton of an atom of carbon that's in the grain of sand wedged in your swimsuit? If by some ludicrously small chance a divine being of universal scale noticed Nepgear speaking in [Concepts], their mind would be blown and we would all die because our universe was in the synapse that short-circuited.
The SS-27 is road mobile. Probably more so then the Messengers considering it's top speed of 45km/h compared to the shuttle crawler's 1.6km/h.
You clearly need to look up MIRVs; they are flashy as hell.
This is a test, no warheads, from a Peacekeeper missile:
going off at the terminus of each of those rays of light. Well technically that was 500kt, closest I could find, but a 350kt would be about the same.
Oh and for a fictional example of how cool MIRVs can be:
although admittedly those are crazy big explosions, >10 gigaton, but I think my point on coolness is made.
Already mentioned that:
You'd want a few nukes for that but the vast majority would be smaller ones.
No actually I didn't remember. Probably because looking over @crystalwatcher 's post on Flight I don't really get why everyone drops down to one attack per turn. I'd certainly understand it for melee attacks since it's so much harder to stay in melee range unless you can outrun and out turn your target but as long as you've got sufficient HSC to track your target I don't see why ranged attacks would be effected.
Still it doesn't really effect my plan much. It does mean they'd be much slower at taking out the Hell Beasts, barring lucky shots with things like Celestial Severance or Purifier Beam's Apocalypse mode, but both are fast enough that they should be able to keep the Hell Beasts in check.
Actually thinking about it having Nepgear draw aggro then just floating still and letting all the Hell Beasts attack her would probably be the best strategy. We probably can't do that since Nepgear doesn't know she has Supremacy Zone but none of their attacks can get through and every attack would trigger Supremacy Zone's intercept which would OHKO them:
(Rending Claws: 500, +50 Dice, + 275 Armor Pierce = 825 Total Damage
Intercept!
Purifier Beam: 5,725 Base Damage, +195 Dice, +2,862 Supremacy, +500 Hostile Divinity Effect = 9,282 Total Damage
8,457 Damage Difference, Solid Core wins
Hell Beast: 200 Base Resilience, -50 Dice, -150 Juggernaut = 0 Damage Reduction
Supremacy Zone Triggers!
The Insurmountable Gap Triggers!
33,828 Total End Damage
Hell Beast Health: 20,000 - 33,828 = -13,828 Remaining)
and let us counterattack every Hell Beast that attacked Nepgear that turn regardless of the number.
Eh. It's not that bad. Demon Summoners do 4k damage per attack which is reduced to 1,400 thanks to Echo of Peace and further reduced to 650 by the Gunship's base resilience. Compared to the 3,000 Health they have it would take a rather lucky shot to take it out. Not to mention that the Demon Summoners should be busy dealing with the Drives trying/actually killing them, the Gunships speed is at least one rank too high for the Demon Summoner's HSC and it's quite possible they don't even have HSC since it's not on their sheets, plus there is a good chance Nepgear would intercept the attacks anyway.
Mostly because if you compare these two:
it sounds like JC is mowing down enemies as fast as she can point her gun at them while MECA is shooting individual demons and physical assaulting others instead of opening up with her rotatory cannons and mowing down everything she can. Despite the fact that MECA has Danmaku over JC's Full Auto (implying she shoots more bullets per second) and Anti-Infantry (no in your bible but it sounds like an ability related to mowing down infantry). About the only justification I can see is that JC has Collateral Damage to MECA's Detonate so more enemies should be caught in her splash zone. But even that doesn't explain why the cannons are spinning and firing at max RPM since that would just make each attack less effect not reducing her RoF.
So. Looking this over It seems Messenger #1 has eight wounded soldiers and Messenger #2 also has eight wounded soldiers. However Messenger #2's wounded soldiers have an average Health of 276 to Messenger #1's 383. That combined with the higher number of enemies, 89 for Messenger #1 and 99 for Messenger #2, suggests they are having more trouble.
However Judgement Core seems to be doing a lot better then MECA since Judgement Core hasn't lost a single point of Health while M.E.C.A has lost 24.5% of it's Health although fortunately M.E.C.A Force herself is still at full Health.
Luckily we have Gabriel's Presence of Light which should restore all the wounded to full health upon turn start as well as dropping all the Soul Reaver's down to 70% health. Assuming they are in range.
@crystalwatcher - Is there a range limit to Gabriel's Presence of Light?
Assuming Presence of Light applies to all our allies, it should since Gabriel by the sounds of it would be flying directly overhead, I don't really see any need to change my plan. James will keep JC and Lucky safe while JC and Lucky will obliterate anything that gets near. Michael, Samael, and Aquila should be able to clear out the area around MECA so that MECA, and to a lesser extend Aquila with her Zone Blast, can obliterate anything that gets near. Meanwhile the Drives chase down and kill the Summoners in probably two turns while Gabriel and Solid Core work on cutting down the Hell Beasts.
This is bad, since Apocalypse triggers off of Intercept.
If Nepgear was already aware of Supremacy Zone, then she could at least make sure always face directions in which none of her ranged Intercept activations will punch straight through the attacker and hit the nukes with Apocalypse.
Honestly it wouldn't be so bad except the Soul Reavers are melee fighters. So every Intercept against them will be at point blank range. Even with Echo of Peace and whatever reduction there is due to the (little) distance that's enough to shred any of the Heavy Infantry
Edit:
It's part of the reason Nepgear is in the sky fighting Hell Beasts; that should reduce her chances of noticing ground combat and triggering Intercept.
Yeah, but Starshine has Target: Army (to hit huge amounts of Soul Reavers at once), is strong enough to oneshot individual Soul Reavers, and doesn't cause any form of friendly fire or collateral damage. Also, Nepgear already knows that she has Starshine as an option.
One thing to consider is that humanity is now under one government, which is a giant, unstable mess. From what I can tell, the "paper-pushers" now run things. Literally, the bureaucracy seems to fused with feudalism and now run everything but the highest level of government, which is run by a Council of 30 people elected people, 5 from each continent (35 if Antarctica has gone independent).
Counter Force is apparently completely separate, with the only thing they take orders on being who they can kill, and who they can protect. Not must, can. Not only can Counter Force legally ignore an attack from the UD that is targetting a government headquarters, they're legally entitled to remove said feudal-bureaucrats from power.
But as a consequences, Counter Force also has no say in how the government develops or implements plans such as this. Alaya is probably collectively banging their heads against the wall for the exact reasons people have pointed out, while a few idiots are responsible for this bad implementation, possibly out of some dick-measuring contest with Counter Force.
From what I can tell, a lot of stuff was moth-balled/decommissioned/broken down after the Earth "unified", so there probably aren't any SS-27's left.
I suspect the Messengers were originally for something else, before being given a quick retrofit so they could fire the nukes.
As for the MIRVs, I can't help but wonder if parts of the bureaucracy aren't paranoid about the Counter Force having access to nukes, and so deliberately encouraged others to ensure bad implementation.
- Location
- madison
you might want to use a different hand wave. Generally the level of incompetence needed for bureaucrats to screw with staratgic weapons deployment is terminal in a serous conflict.
an alternative hand wave would be the invention of magic necessitated a bunch of additional protections and penetration aids had to be added to each warhead, to the point that it makes MIRVs impractical. Same with the missiles, ICBMS are great but there not designed to deal with stuff like demons teleporting in on a suicide run during the assent phase, or precogs plotting the missiles path ahead of time and opening a portal in its way.
so the new missiles and the delivery vehicle are a bit of a kludge thrown together to deal with magical bullshit in a hurry. its not petty, has some major issues and most likely more than a few design oversights but it works and its ready in time for the assault on hope. So far humanity hasn't been portrayed as suffering from the kind of systematic incompetence that a sloppy nuke deployment would hint at.
Last edited:
On the other hand, these are magic nukes. Since their Obliterate Ability bypasses up to "Beyond Good and Evil", I assume their effect is magically spread out over a larger area.
- Location
- UTC -6
Air combat manoeuvring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Even when everybody has guns aircraft spend nearly all their time trying to get into position to shoot/avoid being shot and almost no time actually firing. Nepgear might be able to spin in place with her boosted flight and just ignore most incoming fire. Almost everyone else needs to pick up and drop speed to keep flying and pointing in the enemy's rough direction -- which sharply cuts their potential damage.
Yep. There's abilities that get around that, but Nepgear doesn't have those yet.
The problem with that (otherwise good) assumption is one of institutional inertia. Nuclear deployment has ALWAYS been controlled/organized solely by a trusted military establishment following the explicit directives issued by the highest levels of political authority. EVERY preceding nation followed these rules, along with all of the preceding civilian bureaucracies. The knee-jerk reaction to a civilian bureaucrat trying to pull shenanigans would be to KILL him, can nobody would CARE about the legality of it. The Council would sign off on the execution orders in a heart beat.
And there's the issue. Counter Force has no official oversight from the government, the leaders of the government aren't it's commanders etc etc. It is, legally, an independent force outside of the government. It does not take orders from the government, it takes polite suggestions.
Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
This just serves to highlight how inefficient and slow a global government is going to be. Even normal, national governments are horribly bureacratic and prone to corruption and only get worse the bigger they are.
Thankfully the Counter Force has just the right combination of power, autonomy, dedication and sheer hatred of the UD to be able to function effectively.
I guess that while Humanity is the absolute best at all things Warfare, but not so much at the rest of this bureaucracy thing. Gaia really should have thought our build out a bit more thoroughly when making her weapons.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
That would be a good idea, buuut the list is still far from up to date. Getting there, slowly, but it's missing like... 50% of the stuff it should have, and only has minimal sorting.