...I don't think it is as useless as you imply. Since, well, they do peruse their own interests, and for the minor powers we offer a pretty sweet deal...
Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest
- Thread starter Oshha
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- United States
I will say that, beyond the Forluc (aka our most militarily powerful and belligerent vassal) the rest of our vassals have given us little to no trouble (and only if you count resistance towards conversion as being troublesome). Considering the likely unprecedented era of peace in the Lowlands thanks primarily to the Arthwyd, it shouldn't be too difficult to rally the rest of the vassals behind the cause of "fuck those invading foreigner assholes".
The Forluc specifcally are worth keeping an eye on, and possibly worth trying to actively deal with after this is over assuming we still live. It might be time to take a more proactive approach in the affairs of our vassals (and before anyone asks, that doesn't mean trying to genocide them or whatever else).
- Location
- Australia
We discarded the Raradysh without issue from the Raradysh, the Arthwyd, or any of our other vassals. That's enough of a precedent to discard the Forluc over their actions.
That's bullshit. Oshha's claiming that we had a choice between demanding nothing or demanding general obedience, when the real choice he gave us was whether to demand nothing or demand some kind of material tribute. His words right now are nothing but misleading.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You voted that the Arthwyd wouldn't expect their vassals to give them anything as part of their vassalhood so I'm not going to let get rid of them on the grounds that they aren't giving you anything. It is possible to get rid of vassals, but there needs to be a reason for that to happen and I'm not taking the vassal doing something the players voted for as a valid reason to get rid of a vassal.
As for the Raradysh, that was a personal union where you happened to have the same ruler rather than an agreement to have their ruler obey your ruler as is the case with every other vassal that you have had. You could equally argue that the Raradysh peacefully, wilfully, and uncontroversially unvassalised the Arthwyd with the same amount of validity.
Also this:
That loyalty is a factor in them deciding what they want to do. Rebellious thoughts or desire for independence aren't really a thing in your vassals so you don't need to worry about putting down a rebellion here and there or expending resources on stamping out discontent. They also tend to think fondly of their Arthwydish overlords rather than being neutral towards you or thinking poorly of the Arthwyd.
You didn't discard the Raradysh. The Raradysh and the Arthwyd had a personal union that ended. The Arthwyd were just as much a vassal of the Raradysh as the Raradysh were a vassal of the Arthwyd in that.
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- Location
- Australia
You very badly should've given us an option to vote for demanding general obedience, or at least explained your true and hidden intentions regarding that vote. I'm very sure that most people here thought that vote was solely about how much material tribute we demand, not how much control we exert over our vassals in general.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 159 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 3962-3970]
##### NetTally 2.2.0
Task: Epic
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to prepare the Arthwyd Empire for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][Epic] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Hero
[X][Hero] Evatine becomes a Mystic Hero.
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Diplo to Genius Diplo.
No. of Votes: 2
[X][Hero] Evatine becomes a Tech Hero.
No. of Votes: 1
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 5
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 159 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 3962-3970]
##### NetTally 2.2.0
Task: Epic
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to prepare the Arthwyd Empire for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
No. of Votes: 2
[X][Epic] Evatine attempts to hire Boarfolk tribes to aid the Arthwyd against the Nersondurans. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, Temp Martial+?, ???)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] demonthese2211
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Hero
[X][Hero] Evatine becomes a Mystic Hero.
No. of Votes: 3
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Diplo to Genius Diplo.
No. of Votes: 2
[X][Hero] Evatine becomes a Tech Hero.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] HanEmpire
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Andres110
Total No. of Voters: 5
???
Wasn't the context a clear cut question of tribute, and only that?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm not talking about how much control you exert over your vassals in this line of discussion, I'm talking about not being allowed to get rid of vassals for not providing any tribute/taxes when the players voted for vassals to not pay any tribute/taxes.
You want to talk about how much control you have over your vassals, that is a different discussion to wanting to get rid of them for doing something that the players voted for them to do.
- Location
- Australia
jjffjhjf wasn't saying "The Forluc don't give us tribute so can we unvassalise them?", he was saying "The Forluc demand protection but don't obey us like a vassal should so can we unvassalise them?"
Except well...
What was the vassalization agreement in the first place
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly, that wasn't the impression that I got from that post.
You save them from starvation, protect them from the Caradysh and pay them to stop engaging in slavery in exchange for them accepting you as their nominal overlords.
- Location
- Australia
We protect them and give them food, they abolish slavery and obey us.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That last one is very much debatable in-universe. The Forluc would very much disagree with the Arthwyd on how much they are expected to obey them and just what obedience includes.
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to prepare the Arthwyd Empire for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
What do tech Heroes do?
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
What do tech Heroes do?
- Location
- USA
Invent stuff generally.
- Location
- Hollister
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to prepare the Arthwyd Empire for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to prepare the Arthwyd Empire for the upcoming war. (Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, ???)
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
- Location
- Australia
@Oshha is this more of a general discontent reduction or does it reduce Stability/Legitimacy losses when we make unpopular decisions?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
[X] [Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Martial to Genius Martial.
[X] [Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Diplo to Genius Diplo.
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
[X] [Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Diplo to Genius Diplo.
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
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- Location
- Australia
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- Location
- USA
@Andres110 I'm not sure how it works with the new system but historically Main expand econ provided no temp econ, and indeed cost -1 or -2 I think, in exchange for expanding permanent econ by 1.
- Location
- Australia
Ouch, ok. Good memory there.
- Location
- The Space Between
So long as the Boarfolk think there is more glory for their God against the Ners they will attack the Ners. I think approaching them to discuss the thorough thrashing of Ners for the temerity of threatening our homeland, us providing a frontline while the Boar can ravage any angle they choose.
I'm tempted to choose Tech Hero just because Evatine is a chosen face of Arthwynn and will need her own identity after this for the cults. We have a cultural face, mystics, administrators, warriors. We do not have a specifically Tech focused part of our pantheon.
[X] [Hero] Evatine becomes a Tech Hero.
[X] [Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Diplo to Genius Diplo.
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
Ideally this will result in a collaboration-based tech-focused part of our Pantheon. We reach out to others to make sure that we can strive forward together
Alternately, a Diplomacy powerhouse who focuses on making sure our vassals choose of their own volition the mutually beneficial arrangements we have made.
We have monstrous amounts of manpower, discipline and mysticism. We are lacking in technology, and part of that can be made up by "barbarian" levies and Boarfolk assistance.
or invention
both accomplish the task
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Boar God will find more to feast upon from the distracted Ners than upon our stony walls. How directly we coordinate is up to the warlord, but we will certainly be making our presence known to Ners. Whether they seek to plunder the plunderers is up to them.
As for Ners:
We are prepared to grind generations against the foe, to wage war beyond a lifetime and utterly ruin those that seek our despoilation.
We can weather the Ners and the Boar attacking us together.
Can you say the same, Nersontur?
I'm tempted to choose Tech Hero just because Evatine is a chosen face of Arthwynn and will need her own identity after this for the cults. We have a cultural face, mystics, administrators, warriors. We do not have a specifically Tech focused part of our pantheon.
[X] [Hero] Evatine becomes a Tech Hero.
[X] [Hero] Upgrade Evatine from Heroic Diplo to Genius Diplo.
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X] [Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
Ideally this will result in a collaboration-based tech-focused part of our Pantheon. We reach out to others to make sure that we can strive forward together
Alternately, a Diplomacy powerhouse who focuses on making sure our vassals choose of their own volition the mutually beneficial arrangements we have made.
We have monstrous amounts of manpower, discipline and mysticism. We are lacking in technology, and part of that can be made up by "barbarian" levies and Boarfolk assistance.
or invention
both accomplish the task
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Boar God will find more to feast upon from the distracted Ners than upon our stony walls. How directly we coordinate is up to the warlord, but we will certainly be making our presence known to Ners. Whether they seek to plunder the plunderers is up to them.
As for Ners:
We are prepared to grind generations against the foe, to wage war beyond a lifetime and utterly ruin those that seek our despoilation.
We can weather the Ners and the Boar attacking us together.
Can you say the same, Nersontur?
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Just finished binging the quest and I have to say it been one of my personal favorites! The worldbuilding has been amazing - I especially loved seeing the development of the Athywyd religion. Anyway enough gushing its vote time!
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Evatine becomes a Mystic Hero.
Having the boarfolk onside or at the very least not invading us would be huge and if we can rally the rest of the the empire behind us it will not only help in the coming war but also hopefully inspire some unity against invaders. As for the hero vote I mainly did it less for mechanical reasons and more because it sounds interesting - plus were theocratic so its totally thematic for us to have a mystic leader! As for the whole debate about our vassals I think their worth keeping around even if we were able to ditch them - If nothing else its very prestigious to have them as even nominal vassals and they serve as good buffer states protecting the Athywyd heartland.
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to reach out to the new Boarfolk warlord of the nomad tribes. (Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth----, ???)
[X][Epic] Evatine decides to ensure that the barbarian parts of the Arthwyd Empire support the war. (Temp Diplo--, ???)
[X][Hero] Evatine becomes a Mystic Hero.
Having the boarfolk onside or at the very least not invading us would be huge and if we can rally the rest of the the empire behind us it will not only help in the coming war but also hopefully inspire some unity against invaders. As for the hero vote I mainly did it less for mechanical reasons and more because it sounds interesting - plus were theocratic so its totally thematic for us to have a mystic leader! As for the whole debate about our vassals I think their worth keeping around even if we were able to ditch them - If nothing else its very prestigious to have them as even nominal vassals and they serve as good buffer states protecting the Athywyd heartland.