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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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Gosu said:
Yes, but then there cases like SMS Pommern, HMS Avenger or USS Juneau, where the torpedo hit did blow up the ship near instantaneously.

On the other hand, off-hand I can only remember Hood getting shelled in and exploding from a magazine hit in two World Wars. Edit: with comparative equal opponents. There were multiple cases of unlucky ships getting too close to something much too big for them.

It's a trade-off, to be certain. Something can be said for both sides.
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Firefinder12-B said:
It's telling that all those ships had basically no TDS to name.
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Gosu said:
The ship exploded and effectively sank before the smoke had cleared. When gun turrets fly through the sky and drop down behind other ships it's a magazine explosion, there isn't explosive enough in one torpedo to blow up a cruiser like that regardless of where it explodes.

Now the magazine could possibly be hit because the structure had already been weakened, but that's not the point.

Yup, and Pommern wasn't exactly state of the art anymore.

But the point I was making was that protecting magazines from torpedoes is as necessary as it is to protect them from shells. It's just that you can't place the shells under the powder and the powder under the shells at the same time.
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Firefinder12-B said:
Which is what the TDS is for. Somethings that none of those ships had.

Plus wasn't Juneau hit by long lances? Aka the torpedo that had a thousand pounds of high explosive in it? Two in the engines to boot?

Probably set off the boilers cause steam explosions have been known to blow the bottom off of ships. The heat then cook off the brass cases for the 5 inch ammo. Plus those turret aren't really turrets. They are well this.

Not exactly the best off ammo protection...
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I just want to draw attention to the fact that USS Juneau didn't receive both of her torpedo hits in the same battle.

True, she took a Long Lance in the side, and it even broke her keel. She was still fine and able to sail back for repairs after the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal.

It wasn't until several hours after the battle that Juneau took her second torpedo hit from a submarine while in formation with other USN ships. In fact, the torpedo that hit her actually missed its intended target and hit poor Juneau instead right in the battle damage from the first torpedo. So, even a lowly American light cruiser/destroyer leader like Juneau could take a considerable beating. She's not exactly a fair comparison with those other ships due to her accumulated battle damage before blowing up from that final hit.
 
Deidryt said:
It kinda bears mentioning also that neither HMS Avenger nor USS Juneau used weaponry that had separate powder and shell stores. I just don't feel either really applies to the HMS Hood design philosophy in question.
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BF110C4 said:
Plus Juneau was a light cruiser, with a completely different purpose than a Battlecruiser, since the BC was intended to fight against ships as well armed as she was not to mention hunt the occasional unfortunate cruiser that crossed paths with her at long range it main priority armor-wise would have been to protect against naval artillery and not against torpedos or mines, the first a close ranged threat, the second usually found mostly during shore bombardment.
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Aires Drake said:
I just want to draw attention to the fact that USS Juneau didn't receive both of her torpedo hits in the same battle.

True, she took a Long Lance in the side, and it even broke her keel. She was still fine and able to sail back for repairs after the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal.

It wasn't until several hours after the battle that Juneau took her second torpedo hit from a submarine while in formation with other USN ships. In fact, the torpedo that hit her actually missed its intended target and hit poor Juneau instead right in the battle damage from the first torpedo. So, even a lowly American light cruiser/destroyer leader like Juneau could take a considerable beating. She's not exactly a fair comparison with those other ships due to her accumulated battle damage before blowing up from that final hit.
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The point I was, perhaps not very aptly, trying to make is not that USS Juneau should have been expected not to explode after two hits in the same spot, or that an escort carrier merchant conversion should not have been in explosive danger when a torpedo hit her abreast the bomb magazine.

Going back to the shells rooms over propellant rooms argument, what I was going for with these examples is that underwater hits might well set off magazines, under unfortunate circumstances. All it takes is the explosive getting close enough from the sides or the bottom. From this viewpoint having the shell rooms under the propellant rooms is a valid design choice, not a silly practice the British were ten years late in reversing.

My excuses if you people thought these examples were meant as a criticism on how those ships were designed and handled.

Firefinder12-B said:
Which is what the TDS is for. Somethings that none of those ships had.
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Torpedo defense systems are not perfect defenses, especially not abreast turrets which are usually located there were the hull (and the TDS) is starting to narrow. The Yamato class took protecting the magazines against this thread to extremes by having an 80mm armored deck under the magazines as well, in case of under bottom mine hits.

Consider one of the less known British battleships, HMS Audacious. A modern super-dreadnought in 1914, only two years from the builders. She was hit early in the war by a mine in the most unfortunate of places and foundered after a number of hours of flooding.

Firefinder12-B said:
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The mine hit under the bottom of the ship, completely bypassing the torpedo defense system. It flooded large compartments including a slow flooding of X turret shell room, just above the keel plates of the ship.

Now imagine if the Audacious had had her propellant magazines at the bottom instead of the shell rooms, and the mine had struck just a bit more aft. All we might have known is that one moment there was nothing wrong, the next moment the aft of the ship exploded and the twisted remains would have sunk in minutes.

Even for battleships exploding after an underwater hit was a distinct possibility, getting the volatile powder a deck up from the bottom helps a bit against mines. Clearly you then have a larger problem with shells, but that's why it's a trade-off.
 
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Gosu said:
The point I was, perhaps not very aptly, trying to make is not that USS Juneau should have been expected not to explode after two hits in the same spot, or that an escort carrier merchant conversion should not have been in explosive danger when a torpedo hit her abreast the bomb magazine.

Going back to the shells rooms over propellant rooms argument, what I was going for with these examples is that underwater hits might well set off magazines, under unfortunate circumstances. All it takes is the explosive getting close enough from the sides or the bottom. From this viewpoint having the shell rooms under the propellant rooms is a valid design choice, not a silly practice the British were ten years late in reversing.

My excuses if you people thought these examples were meant as a criticism on how those ships were designed and handled.

Torpedo defense systems are not perfect defenses, especially not abreast turrets which are usually located there were the hull (and the TDS) is starting to narrow. The Yamato class took protecting the magazines against this thread to extremes by having an 80mm armored deck under the magazines as well, in case of under bottom mine hits.

Consider one of the less known British battleships, HMS Audacious. A modern super-dreadnought in 1914, only two years from the builders. She was hit early in the war by a mine in the most unfortunate of places and foundered after a number of hours of flooding.



The mine hit under the bottom of the ship, completely bypassing the torpedo defense system. It flooded large compartments including a slow flooding of X turret shell room, just above the keel plates of the ship.

Now imagine if the Audacious had had her propellant magazines at the bottom instead of the shell rooms, and the mine had struck just a bit more aft. All we might have known is that one moment there was nothing wrong, the next moment the aft of the ship exploded and the twisted remains would have sunk in minutes.

Even for battleships exploding after an underwater hit was a distinct possibility, getting the volatile powder a deck up from the bottom helps a bit against mines. Clearly you then have a larger problem with shells, but that's why it's a trade-off.
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Thing is that being above the shell room makes it more likely for it to go up.

Look up what happen to the Wasp, a torpedo shot out of the water and hit above her water line. That what started the fire.

The Germans, USN and the RN did tests after the first World war and found that having the powder room at the bottom was superior. For the simple reason that the hole from the Torpedo or mine will let in water flooding it. Counteracting any chance of a fire. The odds of a torpedo making the powder room go up makes the Shot that Killed the Good seem common.

The Audacious was originally thought to have gone down cause of a powder explosions but that was disproved when they found her and saw that the powder was still there.

Edit: look at how Kongo sunk. Her powder mags were above the shells room and they still went up by torpedoes cause they couldn't be flood as easily.
 
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Firefinder12-B said:
The Germans, USN and the RN did tests after the first World war and found that having the powder room at the bottom was superior. For the simple reason that the hole from the Torpedo or mine will let in water flooding it. Counteracting any chance of a fire.
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Firefinder12-B said:
Look up what happen to the Wasp, a torpedo shot out of the water and hit above her water line. That what started the fire.
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Many things can start a fire. Bombs, shells, torpedoes, mines, inattention. Defense against fire is by nature a whole different thing than defense against underwater damage.

In other words, with 20-20 hindsight it may have been a superior layout taken over all causes of exploding, but this was not exactly a well established fact in 1914, as your comment about post-1918 testing indicates.

Firefinder12-B said:
The odds of a torpedo making the powder room go up makes the Shot that Killed the Good seem common.
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Provided it's a battleship, since there were more examples of torpedoes doing exactly that to non-battleships than there are Hood-like shell hits. However, underbottom mine explosions which I keep repeating (like happened to Audacious) can go straight to the propellant magazine if that is located on the lowest deck.

Firefinder12-B said:
Edit: look at how Kongo sunk. Her powder mags were above the shells room and they still went up by torpedoes cause they couldn't be flood as easily.
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It's not as if the propellant magazines are not under the waterline when mounted above the shell rooms. Look at how North Carolina flooded after her torpedo hit forward, abeam her forward magazines. Most flooding was on the third deck, not on the lower platform decks and the hold. If her powder magazines had been there instead of deeper inside the ship, *they* would have been flooded by the torpedo.
 
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Gosu said:
If her powder magazines had been there instead of deeper inside the ship, *they* would have been flooded by the torpedo
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They kinda nearly were
The powder room wasn't that far away.

And flash from the Torpedo were reported in her lower handing rooms. If I wasn't on the phone I'll copy and past it but I cant.

The point is that the US was putting the shells above the powder since at the Nevada class, a ship design nearly 10 years before the Hood. They saw the risk and figure them not to be a problem.
 
Anyway, I think we've deviated enough from the actual topic of this thread which is Sky's fic.

With that in mind, what are people looking forward to next? When do people think that cruisers will start trying to get their captains to notice them?
 
Aires Drake said:
Anyway, I think we've deviated enough from the actual topic of this thread which is Sky's fic.

With that in mind, what are people looking forward to next? When do people think that cruisers will start trying to get their captains to notice them?
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They can target their favorite crewmembers instead of the skipper and his XO. Engineers, gunners, navigators and even stewards got a more intimate and personal experience with the ship and they might be more sensitive to the mood of the girls.

Once they get one crewmember, no matter how low on the totem pole, they can get other guys to see them and work their way up to the captain, all while passing the voice, as well as some tips, to their escorts and other ships they meet.
 
Just a short little humor bit, inspired by random chatting ( @theJMPer has credit for this one) on Discord.

Changing in the Rain​

While it may not fit the idyllic view of the Hawaiian Islands, a rainstorm was not an uncommon occurrence. Such a storm had descended on Pearl Harbor, grey and overcast skies giving the harbor quite a different appearance. The downpour of water hardly helped the image.

"Sara? You alright up here?"

That Admiral Thompson had to hold a hand over his eyes as he walked onto the deck of Saratoga hardly helped matters. He winced as lightning struck in the far distance, thunder rolling across the harbor. Sara didn't seem to notice, looking up at the rain with curious blue eyes. Thompson had no idea why she was curious, or why she was up here in the first place. But he didn't exactly like having to come out into the rain either.

The things he did for these girls.

"I'm fine Admiral," Sara finally replied, turning her head down to smile at the Admiral. "I've never really felt the rain before. Not like this, anyway."

"You haven't?" Thompson tilted his head in confusion, looking between the carrier and the rain. That didn't... "How have you never felt the rain?"

A soft laugh came from the girl, as she turned her view back up at the sky. Sara brushed her wet hair back, smile refusing to leave her face, "Everything is different since you got here sir. I feel different. I've never stopped to actually enjoy the rain before."

Well, that made a little bit more sense. Still, Thompson frowned slightly, as he walked up to the girl. Sara watched him out of the corner of her eye, but she made no moves to...well, move. At least, until the Admiral actually reached her.

Because when he did, Thompson shrugged off his uniform jacket, and placed it around her shoulders, the rain quickly soaking his undershirt. Sara finally lost her smile, confusion overtaking it when she picked at the heavy jacket on her shoulders. Confused blue eyes turned on the Admiral, the question clear in them, even if she hadn't asked it vocally as well.

"Admiral? Why did you...?"

Thompson just shook his head, lopsided smile on his face now, "You may still be the ship, but it wouldn't be gentlemanly of me to let you get soaked without offering my jacket."

Sara flushed crimson at that statement, wrapping the jacket tightly around her torso. "You didn't need to do that..."

"Maybe. But hey, I can give you the full experience of standing in the rain this way." Thompson's smile didn't fade, even as he wiped rain from his face. "Though I'm not particularly fond of it mysel...Sara?"

The seeming non-sequitur came from the fact that Sara had stiffened in place, hand held to her ear. Admiral Thompson had been in the past long enough to know what that meant, and that was the girl talking over the radio. About what, he didn't know. But...

Well, Sara was quick to explain.

"Admiral...Little E is panicking." Sara's voice was dry, despite the rain pouring down on them.

"About what?" Thompson blinked slowly, completely befuddled. What in the world could Enterprise be panicking about?

In response, Sara gestured at the jacket she wore, fluttering in the wind. "My...my hull's camouflage just went the same shade of khaki as your jacket."

"What."

That single word was spoken with such a flat tone of disbelief, that even Sara giggled at it. Thompson could be forgiven for his reaction though. Why in God's name would Sara's hull change color just because...you know what?

Why was he even questioning it?

He was standing here, talking with USS Saratoga, aboard her hull. Decades in the past.

None of this made any sense.

Still, this probably takes the cake.

"And every time the wind blows it around, my camo flips around and...oh dear." Sara trailed off, cheeks flushing again.

Thompson just gave a long-suffering sigh, "What now?"

"Admiral Halsey is asking..." Sara's flush deepened, as she coughed and lowered her voice to a decent impression of Halsey's rumble. "'James, why is your goddamn ship changing colors like that? Do you want everyone to see that shit?'"

Yup, that sounded like something Bull Halsey would say. Thompson felt a drop of sweat roll down his face though, noticeable even in the rain. He could hardly blame Halsey for the reaction. Hell, if Little E suddenly started changing color like that, he would be more than a little worried. Though...why was he suddenly wondering what would happen if Arizona put her jacket on one of the other girls?

Focus James.

"Right..." Thompson turned away from the wind and gestured into Sara's hull, "Let's get inside and get my jacket off you before someone else notices."

"Everyone probably noticed, sir," Sara deadpanned, small smile crossing her face.

"...don't remind me. Please, don't."

Sara's laughter followed him into her hull, as the young Admiral held his face in his hands. This was going to be an interesting meeting with Richardson, he could already tell. Never a dull moment...not once.


The actual next chapter will hopefully be up tomorrow (later today?). Hopefully.

Also wraps up Arc 1, so there's that.
 
This could be used, you know. Dark blue jacket for nightfighting, signal orange to easilly get spotted if in trouble and in need of being seen... Not to mention the explanation potential:

Thompson: "Oh, you are saying I am crazy, and that theese ships are completely mundane?" *grins, turns to the ships and shouts* "Jacket change! Green!" *turns back towards to the admiral in the jeep as all the ships behind him changes color to green*

An interesting question of course is this: What happens if a shipgirl wears a ballistic vest, or a breastplate? If that works, of course, I'm not sure I even want to know how tough Yamato would be decked out in full masterwork quality samurai armor...
 
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Appletank said:
Aww, so this isn't canon?
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You can blame @theJMPer for the idea on Discord originally.
Mizu said:
Why's he wondering this?

Amusing little snip regardless, though. Had me chuckling at the mental image of a magic colour-changing ship in a thunderstorm.
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He's wondering it, because Sky apparently including a throwaway comment I had made on Discord as well. Also, Imagine Saratoga suddenly having the outline of a battleship painted on her side.

"This is no carrier! This a dreadnought!"
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
Changing in the Rain
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At first I thought this would be something a slight bittersweet. A little lovey. A little dovey. A kind of soft, romantic piece.

Then Little E called and I started laughing like a moron.

The implications of this are hilarious. Let's play dress up with the boats and see what happens. You know, an evening gown to a bomber jacket with jeans to casual lounging wear. And you know you want to see how Little E will look with dad's Halsey's jacket. :D
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
In response, Sara gestured at the jacket she wore, fluttering in the wind. "My...my hull's camouflage just went the same shade of khaki as your jacket."

"What."
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At least Sara was putting on clothes. Some ship-girls... well, as I posted on SB... :D

x=x=x​

1940
Somewhere off the coast of Italy
The Mediterranean

"Capitano?" whispers a sweet voice akin to a bouquet of fine wine divine.

"Burble," he mutters back.

"Capitano. It's 0400."

"Murgle..."

"Ahh... it's so hot."

"Gurgle."

"I need to get rid of these clothes..."

And that's when the eyes of capitano di vascello Manlio De Pisa of the Regia Marina snap wide open.

"Pooolaaa!"

"Eh, Capitano?" His curly-haired cruiser has pulled her blouse halfway off her torso, but she pauses to slowly bat her grey eyelashes at him in a coquettish manner. "Why are you stopping me? I'm getting hot in here..."

"Put your clothes back on," wheezes the florid-faced De Pisa, who keeps his gaze on her face while waving her to put her hands and her top down.

"There are two Capitano..."

"Are you drunk?" No, wait, De Pisa knows the answer to that question. So he appends: "This early in the morning?"

Pola giggles. "Ehehehe. I drank a little," admits the spirit, whose perpetual list is not due to the calm sea state.

'Perhaps I should have asked how the spirit of a warship can get drunk,' De Pisa reminds himself.

"My clothes are in the way," she whines.

"No," her captain rejects. "They are not."

"Hmm? Aye~ I'm all perky~"

And she proceeds to prove it.

x-x-x​

"Captain?" The XO looks worried. "You're drenched."

"It was a nippy night," De Pisa sighs.

"Really? I'd say it was actually pretty hot."

"Trust me. It was very nippy. Too nippy."

Fighting the urge to glance over his shoulder at the spot that Pola customarily occupies behind him, C.V. De Pisa focuses his attention seawards.

Unfortunately, the armored glass of the bridge is somewhat reflective at this time of the early morning.

"0500. What's that, Capitano. I should drink some water? I'd prefer booze over... Okay, down the hatch."

'Oh, God in Heaven,' silently prays De Pisa as the messy way Pola gulps down a bottle of water does very interesting things to her creamy white fuel tanks. 'Why could you not have assigned me to command Zara instead?'

x=x=x​

Much Later (as in 1943)
Maizuru Naval Arsenal
Maizuru, Kyoto, Japan


"Come back here, Shimakaze-chan!"

Kaigun-chūsa Hirose Hiromu staggers after the invisible-to-everyone-but-him spirit of his brand new super-destroyer. The red-faced officer is armed with a white-and-blue kimono that weighs him down like gravity pulls down the souls of the weary who walk this world while others can hit 40 knots per hour.

"For the love of Togo-Gensui," he begs in a breathless tone, "Please put on some proper clothes!"

Unfortunately for her panting commanding officer, Shimakaze more than lives up to the fleetness of her namesake.

"Nyahaha!" She deliberately lets him get within arm's reach of her before taking off once more just as he tried to grab her. "You're so slow, Commander! So slow!"

'Oshio-chan never gave me this kind of problem,' is the miserable thought of Hirose-chūsa as he continues to try and catch the 'Island Wind', much to the consternation of his crew.
 
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Old Iron said:
At first I thought this would be something a slight bittersweet. A little lovey. A little dovey. A kind of soft, romantic piece.

Then Little E called and I started laughing like a moron.

The implications of this are hilarious. Let's play dress up with the boats and see what happens. You know, an evening gown to a bomber jacket with jeans to casual lounging wear. And you know you want to see how Little E will look with dad's Halsey's jacket. :D
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You think that's bad, wait until you try giving them rollerskates...

Sir... the Allies ships are um, landing on Normandy Beach.

So, we've planed for this, those landing craft won't make much progress.

No sir, their BATTLESHIPS are landing on Normandy Beach, and ah, continuing inland Sir. We have mines and anti-tank weapons but we can't get through battleship hulls sir!
 
Skychan said:
You think that's bad, wait until you try giving them rollerskates...

Sir... the Allies ships are um, landing on Normandy Beach.

So, we've planed for this, those landing craft won't make much progress.

No sir, their BATTLESHIPS are landing on Normandy Beach, and ah, continuing inland Sir. We have mines and anti-tank weapons but we can't get through battleship hulls sir!
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Meanwhile on the bridge of a certain heavy cruiser an Army General is laughing like a loon.
Patton: "Now this is is armor warfare! Oh! Tigers to the one o'clock Augusta!"

Augusta: "What are they worth? 20, 40 points? And the correct term is port bow."

Patton: "50 and I'm ARMY and you are on land. So we are using army terms. Now faster!"
 
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Skychan said:
You think that's bad, wait until you try giving them rollerskates...

Sir... the Allies ships are um, landing on Normandy Beach.

So, we've planed for this, those landing craft won't make much progress.

No sir, their BATTLESHIPS are landing on Normandy Beach, and ah, continuing inland Sir. We have mines and anti-tank weapons but we can't get through battleship hulls sir!
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Sure would make El Alamein a lot easier.

"Anti-tank mine? WHAT anti-tank mine?"

"Seriously? You guys are shooting me with a gun that's not even three inches? What are you trying to do, dent me to death?"
 
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