CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Can we please stop talking about the US Navy pressing Kaga into service? There's simply too many reasons not to, starting with the fact that she's probably gutted down to the lower hanger deck by now.
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Different construction methods and materials, serious structural damage, no blueprints or engineers familiar with the carrier, all that makes her harder to repair than an american, british or even russian ship of similar tonnage, it might not take as long as the Essex's but it would take longer than the CVL's and at a far greater cost since every piece of machinery would need to be machined for Kaga and her logistical footprint would be brutal even after a refit adapted the japanese gear into something that can accept american tools and gear.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
They probably wouldn't use Kaga if they captured her.
First off, the fire damage would require a complete rebuild and they have a shortage of available drydock spots that can take a BB hull. One of which might be taken by Sister Sara right now. Second, the oiler issue to support another carrier. Third, you would need to modify her to carry USN aircraft (can her elevators and flight deck lift and launch F4Fs and SBDs? Also you need to totally modify her to carry USN AAA and equipment (they aren't exactly going to find spares for IJN 25mm cannons, or boiler parts, or ammo hoists, or....)
By the time you get Kaga out of her repairs, the Essexes and Independences are coming online so she is an old, slow relic that is supernumerary to requirements.
As for getting them built ahead of schedule, not really. The first wave of Essexes were funded by the Two-Ocean Navy Act of 1940, so that is a political call that Thompson has no control over barring suggesting to FDR to push carriers while he was TDY as a presidential aide and shipgirl expert. Once Pearl Harbor happened, Congress gave the Navy the proverbial blank check, and those ships are getting expedited. The need for CVLs is going to push the Independences anyway, especially with Sara in the burn ward and Hornet/Wasp not in the Pacific yet.
Honestly about the only chance that Kaga is saved is if something interrupts the scuttling, like a typhoon blowing through that causes the destroyers to leave but somehow does not swamp her. The self-summoning is an idea, but even then she will probably sail to Japan to report in to Combined Fleet.
True, although from the sounds of things, the Asiatic fleet will be facing the Kido Butai sooner rather than later since Hiryuu was under orders to return to Japan to get ready to head to the DEI. Hornet is still a few months away because she is going through her shakedown and sea trials.
I think that the ground leadership is still MacArthur and Wainwright in the Philippines, although maybe Malaya has a better commander this time.
As a consideration - the US battleships sunk at Pearl didn't reenter service until 1944-1945 between repairs and modernizations. And those were ships we had the blueprints and knowledge on. Plus, it's not like we could cut time for drafting plans by slapping a Lex or Yorktown hanger/deck/superstructure onto the Kaga remains, because there's all kinds of things that you have to take into account for seaworthiness that would scuttle that kind of slapdash idea, and there are higher priority projects to spend design hours on than Kaga. Plus, I doubt that they'd leave the JP machinery in place when they know little about its capabilities, operation, limits, etc. And where the US machinery goes can affect the placement of the elevators (or vice versa), which then affects the hanger and flight deck, and so forth. All this stuff has to be taken into account while being stuck with the limitations forced by having a physical hull existing it has to work on. Which leads to the next issue - where are you getting the material to repair Kaga this thoroughly? With the material and machinery to get Kaga repaired and back into service in 1944-1945 as a subpar Lex-hybrid or York-hybrid, you probably stopped a superior Essex from finishing construction and entering service in a shorter time frame than Kaga. (Which is not even taking into consideration the drydock issues mentioned above.)
Nah, Kaga's best use is to stay afloat and unscuttled long enough so some USN surface ships can get some publicity shots in view with it before sending her to the bottom. ...Can you imagine the reaction if there was an aerial shot showing Kaga's remains with a censored Enterprise w/ escorts casually cruising by it? Slap that on a recruiting poster and caption it "Stick it to Tojo - Join the Marines/Navy".
Nah, Kaga's best use is to stay afloat and unscuttled long enough so some USN surface ships can get some publicity shots in view with it before sending her to the bottom. ...Can you imagine the reaction if there was an aerial shot showing Kaga's remains with a censored Enterprise w/ escorts casually cruising by it? Slap that on a recruiting poster and caption it "Stick it to Tojo - Join the Marines/Navy".
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Yeah. You would want to board her to look for intelligence like code machines or slightly scorched copies of the JN-25 Naval Code for Rochefort's people to crack. But this is very different from U-505 who was seaworthy and could be sailed back to port as a prize (and was mainly useful for her code machines anyway).
With Kaga, you search her, take some photos for the newspaper front pages and newsreels, and then SINKEX her to see how effective USN torpedos are (answer not very) against an IJN battleship hull. They might even pass on the photos since the Japanese would assume that their codes are compromised and change codebooks if the see a photo of Kaga under the Stars and Stripes in the NYT.
Not that it will come to that, since the Japanese are going to evacuate her crew and then either try to tow her clear or scuttle her with a couple fish.
Let's be honest. Kaga is not going to be captured in any way. But, I do wonder if some higher ups in the US navy will start to wonder about the existence of shipgirls in the IJN.
If so I don't think it is too far of to imagine some order might be given to try and capture some ship if it ever was feasible, just to see if they can gather any intel at all about potential Japanese shipgirls. Probably will never be a carrier, as they are likely to be destroyed in battle or scuttled if it to prevent their capture. But maybe some smaller boat abandoned in a part or anchorage when the US start capturing territory.
Regardless, it will be interesting how the US navy starts planning for the Japanese shipgirls. I doubt they are just going to ignore the possibility.
If so I don't think it is too far of to imagine some order might be given to try and capture some ship if it ever was feasible, just to see if they can gather any intel at all about potential Japanese shipgirls. Probably will never be a carrier, as they are likely to be destroyed in battle or scuttled if it to prevent their capture. But maybe some smaller boat abandoned in a part or anchorage when the US start capturing territory.
Regardless, it will be interesting how the US navy starts planning for the Japanese shipgirls. I doubt they are just going to ignore the possibility.
- Location
- Paradise, Hawaii
For those that want Kaga, they may have Fantasies of a Blushing Shipgirl muttering about being a War Prize/ Bride.
I am curious how quickly the Bogue class will be churned out, answering to "Big Sis Sara"
So, Wake Held on, Good!
There will be Attacks through the Pacific. The Philipines will happen Soon. Hong Kong & South East Asia.
Truk is already in Japan hands, correct?
Would it be worth it to Invade there before it can be used to cut off American/ Austrailian Shipping? It is a major base, comparable to Pearl for the IJN.
Operation Hailstone - Wikipedia
Of course, the IJN losing that forward base may prevent a few battles from taking place.
Maybe Iron Bottom Sound will never happen.
I am curious how quickly the Bogue class will be churned out, answering to "Big Sis Sara"
So, Wake Held on, Good!
There will be Attacks through the Pacific. The Philipines will happen Soon. Hong Kong & South East Asia.
Truk is already in Japan hands, correct?
Would it be worth it to Invade there before it can be used to cut off American/ Austrailian Shipping? It is a major base, comparable to Pearl for the IJN.
Operation Hailstone - Wikipedia
Of course, the IJN losing that forward base may prevent a few battles from taking place.
Maybe Iron Bottom Sound will never happen.
Drat, my motive has been found out!
Well, I actually didn't think of that but now I want that to happen, as futile as it to hope so. What I wanted to see is that Kaga survives long enough for USN to meet her, maybe like the same thing that happened to Hornet as attempt to scuttle her failed before USN comes. The USN then boarded her to search for documents as many posters above me suggested before sinking her, but someone saw Kaga and interacted with her as she sat there resigned to her fate. Maybe a shipgirl is able to have a conversation before carrying her orders to sink Kaga. I'd like to see the reactions from the shipgirls and the USN.
- Location
- United States of America
This is true, but the Japanese showed that it was possible, on an albeit smaller sacle with the USS Stewart, who after being severely damaged in the battle of Badung Strait was put into a floating dry dock in Surabya, but wasn't properly secured so she toppled onto her side in the dry dock causing more damage. Decding that she couldn't be saved she was scuttled with demolition charges and then the dry dock she was in was scuttled aswell. She sat on the bottom of Surabya bay for almost a year before being raised and rebuilt by the japanese. She was eventually recaptured by the US at the end of the war.
Assuming her magazine doesn't cook off and the fire stays in her upper works, her engineering works and auxiliary controls could still be operational and if she doesn't have any long lances slammed into her side before she can be captured and the fire has gone out she could be steamed under her own power back to Pearl Harbor. There she could get stop gap repairs so that she could reach a west coast ship yard and if she doesn't have any damage below the water line she wouldn't need to take up dry dock space. Tie her up at the dock and then start taking cutting torches to everything above the main deck. This will allow the installation of an american spec hanger, elevators, and flight deck. In terms of AA armament she could get the Chicago pianos that are now being phased out for 40mm and 20mm's. This all assumes that the fire stays in the upperworks and she doesn't suffer damage below the waterline though.
Sir_Gaea
More Stories Please
- Location
- The Region
Full stop, Kaga is not entering USN service. Everything is too different and it would take too much time and effort to get a substandard product.
Japanese and American Naval doctrine are far to different to allow compatability between services. American ships are designed to get back to dock to survive where as the Japanese are designed to fire one last time before sinking. That is why Stewart was able to be raised and repaired. Her inherent doctrinal design allowed for that.
More over, American carriers are multiply redundant fire fighting capabilities. Kaga has a one shot system with no redundancies.
Kaga is not being used by the US Navy.
Japanese and American Naval doctrine are far to different to allow compatability between services. American ships are designed to get back to dock to survive where as the Japanese are designed to fire one last time before sinking. That is why Stewart was able to be raised and repaired. Her inherent doctrinal design allowed for that.
More over, American carriers are multiply redundant fire fighting capabilities. Kaga has a one shot system with no redundancies.
Kaga is not being used by the US Navy.
baofengyu
moonfaced assassin of joy
- Location
- Pain Amplifier
Honestly, the only value Kaga has is as a target, or in the extremely rare chance, a trophy. I agree with @SisterJeanne that Kaga could best be served as a target to prove once and for all that the current US torps don't work, and if Kaga was taken and towed back to Pearl, she might serve better by being taken right outside the channel and docked to a special anchorage with her name on it, with other anchorages in place for the rest of the IJN Carriers that were part of the Pearl Harbor attack. It would be both a huge morale boost as well as a propaganda coup...
PAGDTenno
Verified Warmind. Probably on fire.
- Location
- South Carolina
There is an order of magnitude difference between repairing a thousand-ton destroyer and repairing a 39,000 ton aircraft carrier. Especially when the carrier is so badly damaged that "reconstruction" is a more accurate term. As in "you're basically taking apart the old ship and putting it back together with a bunch of new parts."
And no, her boilers aren't going to be functional. I direct you to Shattered Sword, which assesses Kaga as only being suitable for the breakers after the damage she took OTL, which is very similar to the damage she took in this story, and assesses Akagi, with her less extensive damage, as also only being suitable only for the breakers. If this argument is somehow still ongoing when I get home from class, I'll dig up the quotes.
- Location
- United States of America
But as we can see in chapter 49, the bombs did not destroy her engine room or boilers because she steamed away from the battle.
This means that unless the fire spreads into her engineering spaces or cooks off her magazines, or she takes some long lances, she should still be able to steam.
Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
Hmmm... I wonder how long Sara and Thompson will be sidelined. I'm also wondering if it will take Thompson longer to recover than it will to repair Sara (unlikely, but look at Yorktown getting ready for Midway) and I'm wondering if Spruance might get called in to replace Thompson while he's healing (and dealing with Utah).
In regards to the upcoming combat, I can see the Asiatic Fleet Surviving and Linking up with Force Z, and doing much better than IRL. I think the Philippines will still fall, thanks to MacArthur.
Kaga is most likely going to sink, and capturing her yields no significant military value, outside of Propaganda. She's a terrible conversion, slow, out of date, and thoroughly wrecked. If she was captured, she would remain as a broken, burnt hulk until she was either scrapped or used as a target, and that would be a rather terrible thing to do to her.
But this is a big deal. Now the IJN will have the same amount of Fleet Carriers as the US. And the US has at least two more Fleet CVs they could call in if they need to, even before the Essex Swarm starts to be a thing.
In regards to the upcoming combat, I can see the Asiatic Fleet Surviving and Linking up with Force Z, and doing much better than IRL. I think the Philippines will still fall, thanks to MacArthur.
Kaga is most likely going to sink, and capturing her yields no significant military value, outside of Propaganda. She's a terrible conversion, slow, out of date, and thoroughly wrecked. If she was captured, she would remain as a broken, burnt hulk until she was either scrapped or used as a target, and that would be a rather terrible thing to do to her.
But this is a big deal. Now the IJN will have the same amount of Fleet Carriers as the US. And the US has at least two more Fleet CVs they could call in if they need to, even before the Essex Swarm starts to be a thing.
Wobulator
Within 1 AU of you!
- Location
- Mars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And she's also on fire. That tends to not do good things for machinery.
And why does this matter?
The US has zero interest in her beyond snapping a few pictures of her burning hulk. That's it.
The17thImmortal
Seeker of Sanity
Except that, as Utah proved at Pearl, Kaga's hull sinking might not be End of Story.
That's the whole goddamn point.
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And? Utah self summoned out of sheer rage after seeing her defenseless, floating crew get strafed by IJN aircraft, and nearly went Abyssal in the process. For what reason would Kaga have to self summon? That is something you need to answer, imo.
PyrrhicSteel
Look natural.
- Location
- Idaho
Keep in mind that Utah isn't the only ship to self-summon so far in this fic.
My bet's still on Kaga being a goner, but until we know why Gneisenau returned (and considering she's working for the British government instead of busting her captain out I doubt it was rage) we can't be entirely sure.
CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
Utah self-summoned because she was connected to Jackson. Gneisenau likely self-summoned via a connection to her captain. I just realized that shipgirls will only self-summon if they have that human element. If Hiryuu were to go down, she'd self-summon to avenge Tamon-maru, but I doubt Kaga lacks the connection to Captain Okada she needs in order to have that drive to return.
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- Location
- Barcelona, Catalunya, EU (for now)
Really?
Who else self-summoned, if you care to enlighten me? AFAIK, we have lots of hull-bounds shipgirls, but only Utah can walk away from her hull...
Because if you are referring to certain German shipgirl, at this point in the story, it's not clear if she travelled back in time, was summoned by someone, or she actually summoned herself.
PyrrhicSteel
Look natural.
- Location
- Idaho
We have at least two self-summoned Germans. There's the ww1 ship who's currently in the resistance in the netherlands, and there's the one tending to Lütjens in England.
