- Location
- United States
I doubt that would work. Kaga seems to lack the kind of emotional connection, the passion for her crew that Utah had, to drive her to self-summon in their defense.
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
Good luck getting an uncooperative shipgirl in custody, tho. Human-size yes, human-limited capabilities... not so much. Unless Utah feels like trying her hand at CQC and using her fists instead of her guns.
"Y'know? I didn't believe you at first, but this really is cathartic. Can I call dibs on the rest of them?"
HolyDragoon
Call Gespenst!
- Location
- Portugal
Kaga went down at peace with what happened. It's unlikely she would return, especially with the insight that coming back would be a futile effort in staving back defeat.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
That's too hard to do even with normal japanese soldiers and any shipgirl is better armed that you average heavy tank platoon, its more probable that Washington will simply issue a command that shipgirls are no covered by international treaties and that US will not accept their surrender, then simply gun them down twice.
Lady Darkhound
Haha, tanks!
- Location
- My very own personal hell
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I doubt that order would go down well with any of the ship's crews. Considering that Sara's pilots heard her scream in pain and then sold their lives hammering Kaga, saying that the US will not respect the lives of shipgirls will end poorly, assuming word of this never reaches the ears of the ships themselves, which it almost certainly would.
The17thImmortal
Seeker of Sanity
True, however that same futility could potentially be used to save lives, on both sides.
Take Kaga into custody and show her the dockyards at Newport News, where the Essex-class are even now being built. Show her that, no, the U.S. is not going to just roll over and capitulate, just because we got struck a bad blow at Pearl and elsewhere. That the very concept of Kantai Kessen is nothing but a sick joke, and that the longer this shit goes on, the more of her countrymen are going to die, trying to fight a war they literally aren't capable of winning.
And then once that's done? Allow her to return honorably to Japan, with that selfsame message burned into her soul.
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Wobulator
Within 1 AU of you!
- Location
- Mars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You want to... rescue a sinking, militarily-worthless ship, bring it through the Panama Canal, all the way to Virginia, then all the way back to Japan... to brag?
The17thImmortal
Seeker of Sanity
As a specially-calculated show of power, yes.
The fact, too, that said docks are in the Atlantic – and thus, Japan can't do jack shit to stop them – would heighten the effect.
Logistics atm would render your plan unfeasible from the start, with the lack of available oilers. At best, if she was successfully captured and not torpedoed (either by USN or IJN), she'd be left to sit somewhere around Pearl.
TCGM
(Unverified God/Space Snek)
- Location
- Avalon
Duh, we're SVers. Over-the-top plans that are useless for any reason other than bragging is in our blood.
I'm new to this thread but have been lurking. Totally on board with the US capping Kaga here. And the ensuing Brute-strength slap fight between her and Utah that follows at Pearl.
The17thImmortal
Seeker of Sanity
You guys do realize this conversation started based on the idea of getting Kaga to self-summon as a shipgirl a la Utah, right?
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Remember the japanese at WWII were seldom the target of the simpaties of the men fighting, the japanese used to misuse white flags to lure patrols into ambushes and to use their own injured as IEDs to kill corpsmen and blowing themselves up with grenades, now imagine the same thing with a few tons of explosives.
Eeehh... At this point of war, only the marines at Wake tasted that and probably still processing the fact. The brass probably isn't aware of japanese suicide tactics to consider, so they might attempt to board Kaga.
Burning Baron
This position needs more entrenching.
- Location
- In here, not out there.
And the faking dead bit from World at War. That happened.
The thing I'm wondering about is how this will affect the Atlantic/Pacific debate between the Navy and Army. Will the Europe First stance of the Army/AAF (wherein they wanted as much manpower and material for Europe/Africa operations ASAP, even if it meant Pacific requirements were ignored IIRC) keep as strong a hold as historically, when the Navy has just given the US it's first major morale boost in the midst of the string of victories Japan is starting to accumulate?
...Also, would this victory potentially negate the need for a Doolittle Raid a few months from now?
...Also, would this victory potentially negate the need for a Doolittle Raid a few months from now?
Amancai
Let's Poikemon battle, poi!
- Location
- Celah kebun sawit
I guess so. Sinking a Japanese carrier and holding Wake right after Pearl is definitely morale boost. Still, someone might still push for a raid on Japanese home islands just to show the Japanese they are not invulnerable, as well as making the Japanese divert some of their resources to home defence.
If Utah can get into a sub without any wonky weight issue, just imagine what sort of hell she can unleash if they can sneak her into Tokyo Bay or Inland Sea..
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- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Speaking of Hiryuu, I suspect that she might assume that Enterprise was the carrier that killed Kaga. Considering the combination of wartime security ('Don't let the Japs know the status of Sister Sara') and IJN Naval Intelligence's notorious track record on thinking USN CVs were sunk when they...were not (Yorktown twice, Enerprise and Saratoga more times than I can count), Tokyo probably will chalk off Saratoga as destroyed just like Kaga was.
Which means that Hiryuu will probably think of Enterprise as her rival/foe, assuming they got the memo that Hornet was still shaking down and Yorktown was unavailable. That leaves Little E as the culprit (and also has an eerie parallel callback to what happened between Enterprise and Hiryuu at Midway).
Well, assuming that Hitler repeats his historical mistake and declares war on the US after Pearl Harbor, you will probably see the historical US strategy play out. The Pacific will be a war spearheaded by the Navy and Marines, just like Europe will be primarily the Army. While there will be fights over resources, the US economy will have enough for both theaters to be handled, even if not quite as much as some of the commanders would want.
Considering our primary POV characters are in the Kriegsmarine and then Enterprise, Sara, Arizona, and Thompson, the Pacific will not go wanting for ships and planes.
As for a Doolittle Raid, it is possible, although the morale should be somewhat better. Sara's pilots can confirm that the first installment for Pearl Harbor has been taken, and if any pictures were taken of Kaga burning, I'll expect them to be shared with the newspapers ASAP. You do want to take steps to regain the initiative in the Pacific ASAP, and hitting Japan ala Doolittle is one way, although there are other potential targets in the Central and South Pacific available as well.
That said, there are dark days ahead since the Philippines are going to fall, and the Asiatic Fleet is in big trouble. I do expect that the next major carrier battle in the Pacific will be either Coral Sea or Wake Three, since clearly Wake is shaping up as effectively the AU equivalent to Midway as a locus for Japanese strategic obsessions.
DawnofWar32
War is coming. Prepare yourselves!
- Location
- Butuan City, The Philippines
I am now anticipating the events that will happen to my country and whether this will be affected by the butterflies (which I'm pretty sure will be) or not. That said, I have a vague feeling that some of the ships in the Asiatic Fleet will self-summon, although I may be wrong.
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
A large chunk of the big battles in the Pacific (for the foreseeable future) are going to be over in Holding the Line, to be honest. Since the East Indies are the big focus of the early days of the War.
Freud is dead, he died in 1939.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
I imagine that the Asiatic fleet, reinforced by Force Z and the Royal Navy contingent from the Indian Ocean is going to make this a more equal fight against the IJN. Competent leadership on the ground is also going to pay dividends as well. Singapore and Malaysia may be able to hold out for longer than IOTL, and throw a serious wrench in the timing of everything, along with Corregidor and Ft Drum being a thorn in the Japanese side as they attempt to subdue the Philippines.
Hornet and Yorktown joining Lexington and Enterprise is a big deal, especially now that the USN aviators know they can fight and win against the best of the IJN.
Personally, I think this all advances the Allies' timeline to April or May to regain the initiative against the Japanese.
Was Thompson successful in getting those built ahead of schedule? One of the reasons the Independence class CVLs were built was because it would take years for the Essex's to be completed and they needed carriers NOW. Pre-war planning had the Essex's scheduled for 1944, but they managed to get them by 1943. The CVLs converted from partially-completed cruisers were being delivered by the fall of 1942.
So, they could use every carrier they can get, and if Kaga could be repaired before 1943 or even by the end of 1943 they would probably do so until those Essex-class ships get built.
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