still_guns
For the Empire!
- Location
- Bridge of ISS Conundrum
Ohhh Force Z.
Ohhhh, this better end well, considering what happened to them IRL
Ohhhh, this better end well, considering what happened to them IRL
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
Orion Zete
[verify weaboo]
- Location
- Malaysia
Hey where is HMS Malaya where all this happen ?
I want know what happens to the ship that carry my motherland name during the ww 2
I want know what happens to the ship that carry my motherland name during the ww 2
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
IRL she was busy in the Med during this timeframe, mainly based out of Gibraltar as flagship of force H. Fighting the Italian Navy, covering convoys to Malta and troop convoys in the Atlantic, that sort of thing. HMS Malaya, British battleship, WW2
You have to remember that the Queen Elizabeths like Malaya were still reasonably capable ships at this point in time after they had been modernized, so they were used in front line roles mainly against the Italian Navy throughout. Also after the frogman attack on Alexandria that sinks QE and Valiant briefly, Malaya was the only battleship available in that theater until they got raised and repaired. The Royal Navy's main priorities were in rough order, controlling the convoy lanes and North sea/Channel so that England did not starve or get invaded, then controlling Gibraltar and Alexandria and keeping Malta a going concern to tie down the Italian Navy and then 'everything else'. Losing Malaya and Singapore was bad and annoying but not fatal to the British war effort. Losing control of the Suez Canal, Gibraltar, or the Med would have been much more damaging.
HolyDragoon
Call Gespenst!
- Location
- Portugal
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
Actually, Malaya was not modernized, not to the level of QE, Valiant, and Warspite. Better off than the Rs, but still not really a frontline battleship anymore.
- Location
- New York
Welp, RIP all of those ships. I don't see the destruction of Force Z butterflying out any differently unless there's suddenly several air wings of Spitfires nearby that weren't there in OTL. A massed bomber attack simply can't be survived by two capital ships and a handful of escorts, even if one of those escorts is a carrier flying off Swordfish bombers.
The carrier can scout and tell the admiral there is nothing at the point they want to investigate, meaning they don't get spotted and the planes don't launch.
British fighter direction was top of the line at this moment, they know that disrupting an attack is better than shooting down a few more bombers but letting them drop. The Japanese bombers were not escorted.
The carrier is also another priority target, making three instead of two to divide the payloads over.
Glorious changes everything. So does the timing, Z is not at Singapore, so there is no morale setback when the ships everyone in that city saw anchored do something else than charge head on in the direction they think the enemy is.
OTOH, Tom Phillips was converted to the ascendancy of air power only because he was on the PoW when she sank.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
By the way, what ever happened to Indomitable? Wasn't she originally supposed to be part of Force Z? Supposedly, wasn't she supposed to be carrying Sea Hurricanes?
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
True, but by this point in the timeline the RN was using Malaya as a frontline battleship because they needed her to serve in that role and literally had nothing else more capable than her to cover critical areas like the Med.
She was supposed to be part of Force Z and was training up for that role when she hit a reef off Jamaica. Assuming that's the same as in OTL, she's getting the hole patched and will miss Force Z as a result. What this probably means is that Glorious is taking her place, so at least they have fighter cover. Sea Hurricanes (explicitly) so good fighter cover.
Last edited:
Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
here's the thing. The IJA attack wasn't a large group all at once. It was little groups throughout the day, each of which will be siting ducks for whatever Glorious is carrying. That and the cruiser floatplanes that found them in the first place have to survive to report their findings.
- Location
- Nashville
So basically just a thing has to go wrong for the IJN not to sink Force Z. I'm not sure I like those odds... the IJN was supremely lucky in OTL, though maybe this TL might nerf some of that to a more reasonable value.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Well, things have already changed, rereading the piece, Force Z is not yet in Singapore, so that is one major butterfly in and of itself. They also have a carrier with Sea Hurricanes with them, and of course the Kido Butai is nowhere near a position to be able to contribute to the strike into SEA until sometime in December at the earliest. So they could do some real damage this time around, especially if they link with the Asiatic fleet and ABDA. They won't be able to stop the fall of Java and Singapore, but they can slow it down considerably, which is nearly as good.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
Couldn't the butterflies flutter their wings enough to blow Indomitable away from that damned reef? She does have a high freeboard, so it shouldn't take that much of a breeze to move her away from it. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if she was there instead of Glorious.
- Location
- Canada
The Japanese officer negotiating Singapore's surrender seriously thought they could be asking him to surrender instead.
So any significant delays, and that whole thing is shot to hell.
"Most of the crew has been able to, in fact, for quite some time. There's a fairly substantial betting pool on how long it would take you to notice. I do believe the senior night-shift engineer is considerably richer as of a few moments ago."
- Location
- New York
Except that at best the Fleet Air Arm at the time is using Sea Hurricanes, and at worst Fulmars. Neither of those is going to be able to climb high enough fast enough to intercept the large bombers that were the mainstay of the Japanese attack. And this is before factoring in the torpedo bombers. Glorious was not a large carrier, and she's carrying both fighter and bomber squadrons. She simply won't have enough planes to prevent the Japanese bomber squadrons from overwhelming the fighter screen and sinking the capital ships.
Further, any chance of concealing Force Z's location is moot since Churchill himself is going to ruin that, and shooting down the spotting floatplanes is also moot since most of the tracking of Force Z was done via submarine.
The only way Force Z survives this is if they turn away and abandon their station, and that doesn't seem like it's going to happen.
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Re: Glorious
She's there for the same reason Repulse is there instead of Renown. Force Z is intended to, basically, bluff the Japanese into not attacking. Wales is there mostly to give them some proper hitting power on the capital ship side. Since the goal is to bluff them, they aren't sending the best ships. Those are still needed for Italy and Germany, especially with Bismarck still a thing. So assuming Indomitable did not run aground, she is staying in the Atlantic.
Glorious is fast enough and carries enough planes to be useful, without being desperately needed in the Atlantic. Which is more than can be said for the other non-armored options in Eagle and Hermes.
On that note, she does carry Sea Hurricanes. I don't see any reason she wouldn't if she hadn't been sunk. Furious eventually got them and Furious is a much less efficient conversion (not that Glorious is particularly good, mind you).
She's there for the same reason Repulse is there instead of Renown. Force Z is intended to, basically, bluff the Japanese into not attacking. Wales is there mostly to give them some proper hitting power on the capital ship side. Since the goal is to bluff them, they aren't sending the best ships. Those are still needed for Italy and Germany, especially with Bismarck still a thing. So assuming Indomitable did not run aground, she is staying in the Atlantic.
Glorious is fast enough and carries enough planes to be useful, without being desperately needed in the Atlantic. Which is more than can be said for the other non-armored options in Eagle and Hermes.
On that note, she does carry Sea Hurricanes. I don't see any reason she wouldn't if she hadn't been sunk. Furious eventually got them and Furious is a much less efficient conversion (not that Glorious is particularly good, mind you).
- Location
- United States of America
Sea Hurricane Mk IB's might help against the japanese bombers, but if any Zero's show up they will be as useful as the land based versions that got blasted out of the sky over Singapore.
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
The Japanese went in without escorts, lost (or nearly lost) several planes to British AA fire- and if you're on the Discord, you'd know that British AA fire control is terribad -and didn't actually have a terribly large amount to begin with. Glorious carried around fifty or so planes, without deck parking. While the Brits aren't terribly into that idea, they may have stuffed her with extra planes for this particular trip. Even a dozen Sea Hurricanes is more than Force Z had before, there's almost certainly more than just a dozen, and if things went as OTL the Japanese arrived in small waves at first, which would be shot down.
Each plane shot down is then one less plane that can be rallied in a bigger wave.
Leaving all of that aside, this is all a week in advance. There's no way to say things would go remotely like they did, especially with Repulse actually able to talk and go 'DON'T GO OUT THERE WITHOUT AIR COVER YOU MORON'.
What with Glorious fresh off Taranto and all.
Also, Repulse dodged 19 torpedoes IRL before she finally got hit. Nine. Teen.
Without any fighter cover.
Each plane shot down is then one less plane that can be rallied in a bigger wave.
Leaving all of that aside, this is all a week in advance. There's no way to say things would go remotely like they did, especially with Repulse actually able to talk and go 'DON'T GO OUT THERE WITHOUT AIR COVER YOU MORON'.
What with Glorious fresh off Taranto and all.
Also, Repulse dodged 19 torpedoes IRL before she finally got hit. Nine. Teen.
Without any fighter cover.
- Location
- United States
Glorious could carry 48 smaller planes, so if she was to have more modern aircraft, her compliment will be smaller, and split up between fighters, bombers and recon planes. The Japanese threw 85 bombers at Force Z, and Force Z can't send up enough planes to match that, especially against Japanese skill. I also don't foresee Glorious getting away as I'd expect for her to be heavily targeted. No Zeros were present OTL, so if the commanding officer of this Force Z decides to radio in for air cover, they could stand a chance of all surviving.
- Location
- United States of America
I am not on the Discord, and i didn't know there was a Discord.
- Location
- Nashville
Uh.... I'm still not sold on Force Z not ending with at least one of our likeable ships sunk at the moment. Specially after that description of the Brits AA fire control...
EDIT: Also I think at least 50% of us are likely not on the discord either...
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
If you prefer to look at it this way, even with terribad AA control, they still held off the Japanese fairly well. Wales got unlucky in her first hit. Repulse dodged nearly 20 torps before she got hit. With any form of air cover, those hit rates go further down.
Again, assuming that things go exactly as historical despite all the butterflies for...reasons.
Again, assuming that things go exactly as historical despite all the butterflies for...reasons.
Mega1987
A TTK somewhere at Kancolle's Iwagawa Airfield
- Location
- somewhere at Kancolle's Iwagawa Airfield
Repulse dodged 19 torps IRL?
Looks like someone already doing torpedobeats way before it was a thing....
Edit:
I'm also in discord... But my channels are kancolle global, world of tanks PH and a friend of mine in the states...
Edit2:
Is all teitoku here ready for the 1st part of the battle of leyte gulp/surigao strait? The maintenance for the event will start today...
Looks like someone already doing torpedobeats way before it was a thing....
Edit:
I'm also in discord... But my channels are kancolle global, world of tanks PH and a friend of mine in the states...
Edit2:
Is all teitoku here ready for the 1st part of the battle of leyte gulp/surigao strait? The maintenance for the event will start today...
Last edited:
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
1) No, you are never prepared for the bullshit (ha final map is all yasen all the time with 7 ships ggnore)
2) Should probably be asked in the KC Game Thread, not in sky's fanfic thread
