Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

"Almost feels like home, doesn't it mate?"

"Bit chilly tho, and the critters aren't nearly as unpleasant."
Charles Upham: "I'm tired of all these wannabe wankers and their pissy pitchforks. Point me towards some Nazi to fight before I fall asleep at my post from boredom."

Funny enough, Upham probably would be bored to tears.

Note:
I place Upham in the same category other people put the Gurkha - He who you speak respectfully towards, move slowly with hands visible at all times, and for the love of God and any other deities listening, never piss off unless you're very suicidally inclined. Because even having an army between you and him/them, won't save your ass.
 
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I mean, technically it's 2.*


*Actually, Darkest Hour. Which is, admittedly, a giant (official) fanmod of HoI2.
 
Rommel got promoted to general by Hitler on advice from one of Rommel's friends, General Wilhelm List (and Guderian!). Before anyone got sent to North Africa, Mussolini invaded Greece and the Italians botched it so badly, the Germans had to pull Mussolini's nuts out of the fire. This is all OTL too. List was the OTL commander of the German forces to invade Yugoslavia and Greece.

In this timeline, it made sense for List to offer his good friend Rommel a position where a fast hard charging officer was needed to out maneuver the Allies, and win actual glory, rather than be stuck in some sand trap that OkH, OkW and Hitler thought was a sideshow but had to have a general of prestige to assuage the Italians. And since Rommel had Hitler's favor, there was a need to find someone with enough reknown to keep the Italians happy but someone that High Command didn't value as essential to Barbarossa. And since Guderian had the reknown and the habit of making older cautious generals nervous, OkW slapped him on the back in congratulations and sent him to North Africa.

So depending how Rommel did in the Balkans would have determined what unit he would be assigned to on the Russian front.

That I have no idea about. I'm just concentrating on North Africa. :)
 
got to disagree with part of this. wouldn't it be better to have the ambicious ones your company commanders where they'll be able to greater effect the battle.

No, you want the ambitious ones on your staff. Company commanders can only do so much, even though they are the ones to fight the battles. The ambitious ones, the smart ones want to do more to win the battle, so you make them staff officers to plan operations, coordinate logistics, handle the paperwork, and to pull together your plans to win. Because, the smart and ambitious ones who succeed, learn from your example on what wins battles when they become commanders in their own right.
 
Because, the smart and ambitious ones who succeed, learn from your example on what wins battles when they become commanders in their own right.
Nope. You make the smart and ambitious ones staff personnel to keep an eye on them, and not having them on the battlefield, risking their soldiers' lives on a hunt for medals and promotions. The smart and lazy ones will achieve success with minimal losses, even if they don't look that good.
 
Nope. You make the smart and ambitious ones staff personnel to keep an eye on them, and not having them on the battlefield, risking their soldiers' lives on a hunt for medals and promotions. The smart and lazy ones will achieve success with minimal losses, even if they don't look that good.
What he said.

In descending order from best to worst:

Smart + Lazy = willing to do the minimum needed that achieves maximum impact in the shortest time possible, so they can go back to doing nothing of importance. And they, generally, don't give a damn about glory.
Smart + Ambitious = willing to take risks above and slightly beyond what would be considered 'acceptable' in order to gain glory, often at the expense of others. Never put them in a field position.
Dumb + Lazy = the 'average grunt' that will never rise above E3 or O2 equivalent (if that), or if they do, they get busted back down soon enough. Good enough for garrison work, and for not much else unless its their personal ass on the line.
Dumb + Ambitious = You know those people they tell stories about? About how they got fragged by their own troops? These are those guys.
Please note that 'lazy' and 'highly motivated' are NOT mutually exclusive, but can overlap quite often. Its just that they're highly motivated in wanting to get things over with, not wanting to deal with the headaches of writing 'Dear Ma'am, it is with deepest regrets that I....' letters, or the sheer annoyances of media attention from awards ceremonies. So they skip all the bullshit to get things done, all so they and everyone else they know (or as many of them as tactically/strategically possible) get to go home, relax, and not have to deal with war. These would be the 'father to their men' types, whom men would walk into hell for, because they know their commander would move heaven and earth to make sure they all come back alive, partially because he's just that good (aka: smart), and partially because he really doesn't want to deal with all the paperwork that comes from being overly ambitious and screwing up (aka: lazy).
 
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Besides that, the smart and ambitious types will try to backstab you, thinking that they are better than you.

Remember the ages-old adage: "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer".
 
What he said.

In descending order from best to worst:

Smart + Lazy = willing to do the minimum needed that achieves maximum impact in the shortest time possible, so they can go back to doing nothing of importance. And they, generally, don't give a damn about glory.
Smart + Ambitious = willing to take risks above and slightly beyond what would be considered 'acceptable' in order to gain glory, often at the expense of others. Never put them in a field position.
Dumb + Lazy = the 'average grunt' that will never rise above E3 or O2 equivalent (if that), or if they do, they get busted back down soon enough. Good enough for garrison work, and for not much else unless its their personal ass on the line.
Dumb + Ambitious = You know those people they tell stories about? About how they got fragged by their own troops? These are those guys.
Please note that 'lazy' and 'highly motivated' are NOT mutually exclusive, but can overlap quite often. Its just that they're highly motivated in wanting to get things over with, not wanting to deal with the headaches of writing 'Dear Ma'am, it is with deepest regrets that I....' letters, or the sheer annoyances of media attention from awards ceremonies. So they skip all the bullshit to get things done, all so they and everyone else they know (or as many of them as tactically/strategically possible) get to go home, relax, and not have to deal with war. These would be the 'father to their men' types, whom men would walk into hell for, because they know their commander would move heaven and earth to make sure they all come back alive, partially because he's just that good (aka: smart), and partially because he really doesn't want to deal with all the paperwork that comes from being overly ambitious and screwing up (aka: lazy).
I see now. I was picturing ambitious as the ones "wanting to be officers" and lazy as "wanting to be seen as officers" if you get what I mean.
 
Nope. You make the smart and ambitious ones staff personnel to keep an eye on them, and not having them on the battlefield, risking their soldiers' lives on a hunt for medals and promotions. The smart and lazy ones will achieve success with minimal losses, even if they don't look that good.

The problem with this is, if they're ambitious, they aspire to command. It's what ambitious officers do. No ambitious officer will aspire to be only a staff officer. Also, if they're good at their jobs, they tend to get promoted. So, keeping them off the battlefield is unrealistic at best.

A smart and ambitious officer knows any success he can achieve as a commander, depends how well the soldiers under his command perform. He'll have studied his military history and know that the Great Captains were known for treating his troops' lives as the precious resources that they are, equipping and training them well, leading them in smart operations designed to achieve the objectives with a minimum of loss and publicly honoring their achievements.

They just need enough self awareness to know what they can do well and the intelligence to surround themselves with the right people who can compensate for their shortcomings.
 
The problem with this is, if they're ambitious, they aspire to command. It's what ambitious officers do.
Indeed. The flaw with Rommel's plan, in my eyes, is that it would generate an awful lot of potential Starscreams, and if just one could severely hinder your goals by putting their own ambitions ahead of the rest, imagine what several would do.
 
Yeah, but that's balanced by the fact that if they screw up your plans trying to better their own position, or your plans just fail anyway, they're perfect to become scapegoats. So they're motivated to do the best job possible, because it gives them better odds of getting promoted and surviving to be promoted as it's much harder for you to make them be your scapegoat, whilst also meaning you've got a much easier time discovering that they're doing a 'Starscream Plot'... Which in wartime can translate rather easily into execution, life imprisonment, being drummed out of the army, etc, etc...
 
Yeah, but that's balanced by the fact that if they screw up your plans trying to better their own position, or your plans just fail anyway, they're perfect to become scapegoats. So they're motivated to do the best job possible, because it gives them better odds of getting promoted and surviving to be promoted as it's much harder for you to make them be your scapegoat, whilst also meaning you've got a much easier time discovering that they're doing a 'Starscream Plot'... Which in wartime can translate rather easily into execution, life imprisonment, being drummed out of the army, etc, etc...
The more Starscreams running around, the more likely they'll screw up each other's Plots, before they ever screw up your own plans. Remember, being ambitious means they'll both put up with more bullshit, and generate more bullshit, than others, simply to stuff their own egos. A lazy type isn't going to stand for bullshit of any kind at all, because it will keep him/her from being able to relax, and won't give a damn about their own ego being stuffed.
 
The Nazi German High Command was filled to the brim with Starscreams. Kind of goes with the nature of Fascism, ie, every piss-ant shall have an anthill to piss from.
 
For examples almost everyone will recognise? By these standards, MAJ. Richard Winters was the epitome of 'smart but lazy'. He gave not a single hoot for winning medals or accolades for himself: his concern was achieving maximum worthwhile results for minimum effort and casualties. He drilled the men hard, of course, because he recognised that physical conditioning and finely-honed skills were crucial to success, but when he got orders to conduct a fighting patrol for little more than the aggrandisement of his superiors, he... quietly ignored it, told his men to stay put, and ginned up a false report to keep the idiots above him happy. It would've meant a court-martial if someone had caught on, but he looked at the raid-plan and decided its possible results weren't worth the probable price in blood.

By contrast, CAPT. Herbert Sobel was certainly eager to win acclaim and promotion, but lacked the field-skills and leadership qualities needed to fulfill his ambitions. Had he led men in combat, he likely would have tried to substitute aggression for savvy and it probably would have resulted in high casualties for questionable results. To his credit, the successes achieved by Easy Coy 2/506 PIR can be attributed, in large part, to the rigour with which he trained the bodies and minds of his men before he was reassigned, and of the Easy Company men, at least 'Wild' Bill Guarnere recognised that in later years.
 
In this timeline, it made sense for List to offer his good friend Rommel a position where a fast hard charging officer was needed to out maneuver the Allies, and win actual glory, rather than be stuck in some sand trap that OkH, OkW and Hitler thought was a sideshow but had to have a general of prestige to assuage the Italians.

Yeah, but if Rommel winds up in charge of 2nd Panzer in lieau of Guderian, then his propensity to disobey direct orders and ignore the state of his logistics, which was unusual even by the standards of the Heer, could backfire greatly near the end of Smolensk, when the turn south towards Kiev was supposed to happen. Then, on the flip side, if someone less hard charging then either Guderian or Rommel is appointed, 2nd Panzer might not push hard enough and that could cost the Germans at the start of Smolensk or during Typhoon at Bryansk.

In contrast to the Wehrmacht General Staff.

That's who he is referring too. Blame Hitler and Clean Wehrmact myth not-withstanding, the Wehrmacht General Staff had quite eagerly embraced the manifestation of Fuhrerprinzip by '41.
 
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e Wehrmacht General Staff had quite eagerly embraced the manifestation of Fuhrerprinzip by '41.

Yep, Keitel and Jodl are two of the bigger offenders. Basically the two highest ranked general staffers who had tried to restrain Hitler (Halder and Beck) were completely sidelined or assassinated. Even in the July plot, there were not a lot of clean hands among the Wehrmacht plotters. Most didn't really care about the racial laws or what was happening to the Jewish populations, they just wanted Hitler out to try and salvage things before the Soviets got to the border. Speidel and Witzleben were two of the more prominent who wanted to stop the persecutions as well, but they had to argue that point on the stupidity of wasting resources and logistics.
 
For examples almost everyone will recognise? By these standards, MAJ. Richard Winters was the epitome of 'smart but lazy'. He gave not a single hoot for winning medals or accolades for himself: his concern was achieving maximum worthwhile results for minimum effort and casualties. He drilled the men hard, of course, because he recognised that physical conditioning and finely-honed skills were crucial to success, but when he got orders to conduct a fighting patrol for little more than the aggrandisement of his superiors, he... quietly ignored it, told his men to stay put, and ginned up a false report to keep the idiots above him happy. It would've meant a court-martial if someone had caught on, but he looked at the raid-plan and decided its possible results weren't worth the probable price in blood.

By contrast, CAPT. Herbert Sobel was certainly eager to win acclaim and promotion, but lacked the field-skills and leadership qualities needed to fulfill his ambitions. Had he led men in combat, he likely would have tried to substitute aggression for savvy and it probably would have resulted in high casualties for questionable results. To his credit, the successes achieved by Easy Coy 2/506 PIR can be attributed, in large part, to the rigour with which he trained the bodies and minds of his men before he was reassigned, and of the Easy Company men, at least 'Wild' Bill Guarnere recognised that in later years.

Was going to put this up myself. A further example from later in the series is after Bastogne, when that one officer (can't remember his name) that Winters wanted to replace led the attack into the town and froze. Spiers was ordered to take over and turned the battle around. Dumb + Ambitious, smart + lazy.
 
Was going to put this up myself. A further example from later in the series is after Bastogne, when that one officer (can't remember his name) that Winters wanted to replace led the attack into the town and froze. Spiers was ordered to take over and turned the battle around. Dumb + Ambitious, smart + lazy.
I wouldn't use that one all that much, Dike was more the dumb and lazy type given the dialogue from that episode and the one before it. And Speir's was a definitive blood knight given the stupid risks he took not only in that battle (running through the enemy lines himself twice when he was the last good commander winters had rather than send a far more expendable member to do so) as well as his assault on the last gun position. I doubt he falls into the smart and lazy camp.
 
@Excubitor You're thinking of LT. Norman Dike, the one the Easy men called 'Foxhole Norman'. I'm not sure if he was a West Point graduate or not — on-screen, he kept fondling a ring, but I don't know if that was a class ring from 'Hudson High' or simply a family signet — but he got Easy Coy because he was somebody's fair-haired boy, and he was hastily reassigned to harmless duties once Spiers relieved him during the attack on Foy.

Another new lieutenant they got (the one played by Colin Hanks) was freshly-graduated from West Point and intended for the post-war Army. He seemed ambitious, and was at least smart enough to hear-out the experienced NCOs he found around him, but he didn't stick around long enough to prove himself either way. One raid/patrol was enough to get him his Combat Infantry Badge and a hasty reassignment to safe duty so he'd be alive to help rebuild the Army for peacetime.

EDIT because subthief'd: Spiers was probably smart/ambitious. He was certainly aggressive and fatalistic in his approach to fighting, and he made LT.COL by the time he died. The Nazi prisoners he governed at Spandau didn't like him much, given how energetic and strict he was, but you can't deny that, both in combat in and peacetime, he was highly results-oriented.

EDIT AGAIN:
... Speir's was a definitive blood knight given the stupid risks he took not only in that battle (running through the enemy lines himself twice when he was the last good commander winters had rather than send a far more expendable member to do so) as well as his assault on the last gun position. I doubt he falls into the smart and lazy camp.
I... feel you're overlooking something about Spiers' approach to combat and command. Remember the little pep-talk Spiers gave Blithe just before the Battle of Blood Gulch outside Carentan? 'You're gonna die when you're gonna die, so let Death worry about that part; you just get stuck into your job and get it over with.' He took the not-unreasonable view that since anything and everything you do in combat — including nothing — is perfectly likely to get you killed, sitting on your ass hiding is a waste of time: get out there and get things done, and in doing so you might earn the right to survive another day.
As to the incident in Foy? It's a little more nuanced than you portray. He took a look at the German defences in Foy, assessed them according to his training, recognised that they'd left a small seam without proper coverage, and exploited that to get across town to coordinate with I Company.
Yes, he went himself, for several reasons. He was on the spot and had seen the gap, and there wasn't time to talk anyone else through how to run it at minimum risk. He was the commanding officer, and as such had the tactical overview and authority needed to give the required orders when he reached I Company. In his mind, he was no more at risk making that run than anywhere else he'd been in Europe since D-Day. And perhaps most importantly, he was making a personal example: he recognised that Easy Company had been under an indecisive and risk-averse commander for quite some time, culminating in Dike freezing under fire and being relieved by Winters/replaced with Spiers, so he needed to let them know right from the outset that their new CO not only had the balls to get shit done, but that he wouldn't be asking any of them to do anything he wouldn't do himself. (Since bullets don't care about rank.)
And Spiers wasn't 'the last good commander Winters had' — from Winters' own lips, Ronald Spiers was just the first appropriate officer Winters saw after realising Dike had to be relieved RFN. Granted, he had seen Spiers in action and knew he was a goddamn wild-man, but since Easy was in the middle of an assault, that was probably not a negative in his mind.
 
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@Excubitor You're thinking of LT. Norman Dike, the one the Easy men called 'Foxhole Norman'. I'm not sure if he was a West Point graduate or not — on-screen, he kept fondling a ring, but I don't know if that was a class ring from 'Hudson High' or simply a family signet — but he got Easy Coy because he was somebody's fair-haired boy, and he was hastily reassigned to harmless duties once Spiers relieved him during the attack on Foy.

Another new lieutenant they got (the one played by Colin Hanks) was freshly-graduated from West Point and intended for the post-war Army. He seemed ambitious, and was at least smart enough to hear-out the experienced NCOs he found around him, but he didn't stick around long enough to prove himself either way. One raid/patrol was enough to get him his Combat Infantry Badge and a hasty reassignment to safe duty so he'd be alive to help rebuild the Army for peacetime.

EDIT because subthief'd: Spiers was probably smart/ambitious. He was certainly aggressive and fatalistic in his approach to fighting, and he made LT.COL by the time he died. The Nazi prisoners he governed at Spandau didn't like him much, given how energetic and strict he was, but you can't deny that, both in combat in and peacetime, he was highly results-oriented.

EDIT AGAIN:

I... feel you're overlooking something about Spiers' approach to combat and command. Remember the little pep-talk Spiers gave Blithe just before the Battle of Blood Gulch outside Carentan? 'You're gonna die when you're gonna die, so let Death worry about that part; you just get stuck into your job and get it over with.' He took the not-unreasonable view that since anything and everything you do in combat — including nothing — is perfectly likely to get you killed, sitting on your ass hiding is a waste of time: get out there and get things done, and in doing so you might earn the right to survive another day.
As to the incident in Foy? It's a little more nuanced than you portray. He took a look at the German defences in Foy, assessed them according to his training, recognised that they'd left a small seam without proper coverage, and exploited that to get across town to coordinate with I Company.
Yes, he went himself, for several reasons. He was on the spot and had seen the gap, and there wasn't time to talk anyone else through how to run it at minimum risk. He was the commanding officer, and as such had the tactical overview and authority needed to give the required orders when he reached I Company. In his mind, he was no more at risk making that run than anywhere else he'd been in Europe since D-Day. And perhaps most importantly, he was making a personal example: he recognised that Easy Company had been under an indecisive and risk-averse commander for quite some time, culminating in Dike freezing under fire and being relieved by Winters/replaced with Spiers, so he needed to let them know right from the outset that their new CO not only had the balls to get shit done, but that he wouldn't be asking any of them to do anything he wouldn't do himself. (Since bullets don't care about rank.)
And Spiers wasn't 'the last good commander Winters had' — from Winters' own lips, Ronald Spiers was just the first appropriate officer Winters saw after realising Dike had to be relieved RFN. Granted, he had seen Spiers in action and knew he was a goddamn wild-man, but since Easy was in the middle of an assault, that was probably not a negative in his mind.
except for a couple of things on that run.
He didn't take a look at the German positions and spot a gap, he just blindly charged and got lucky. The 30 seconds leading up to the run Lipton's feeding him information while he hugs a farmhouse wall with the radio operator. All Lipton tells him is that there's a lot of Germans around the corner including armor, I company's nowhere in sight, and the Germans appear to be getting ready to pull out. At no point prior to the run does he even poke his head out. He pretty much ran out on a hope and a prayer... and did I mention the radio operator was right fucking next to him during his entire conversation with Lipton.

There's other things besides Foy as well. His part in the Manor assault is basically the opposite of Winters, with him bull rushing the last gun and getting several members of his company killed without using any semblance of fire and maneuver. And then there's also the fact that he does nothing to quell the multiple rumors surrounding him, even admitting to Lipton that he doesn't say anything because of the boost to his rep he gets despite the questions it raises about him amongst the ranks.
 
except for a couple of things on that run.
He didn't take a look at the German positions and spot a gap, he just blindly charged and got lucky. The 30 seconds leading up to the run Lipton's feeding him information while he hugs a farmhouse wall with the radio operator. All Lipton tells him is that there's a lot of Germans around the corner including armor, I company's nowhere in sight, and the Germans appear to be getting ready to pull out. At no point prior to the run does he even poke his head out. He pretty much ran out on a hope and a prayer... and did I mention the radio operator was right fucking next to him during his entire conversation with Lipton.
You're referring to the on-screen portrayal, and in that context your criticisms may bear weight. However, I was referring as much to the actual historical event as the on-screen one, which is where the comment about 'appreciating the situation' came in. And your remark about the RTO being right there might not be germane, either, since IIRC the problem in the first place was that radio communications with I Company could not be established.

There's other things besides Foy as well. His part in the Manor assault is basically the opposite of Winters, with him bull rushing the last gun and getting several members of his company killed without using any semblance of fire and maneuver.
That part I'll concede on the basis of the on-screen evidence, and it appears to be part of the official record of the Brecourt Manor Assault, but again, Spiers was known as a competent but extremely aggressive officer. He chose to speed-blitz the last gun, rather than make a more deliberate approach, which is consistent with his fatalism and personal belief that the faster the job gets done, the more lives are saved in the long run. Would fire-and-manoeuvre have prevented the two KIA and one WIA that his ad hoc unit suffered? Anything's possible, but any conjecture we make here and now is empty: the actual event only played out one way.

And then there's also the fact that he does nothing to quell the multiple rumors surrounding him, even admitting to Lipton that he doesn't say anything because of the boost to his rep he gets despite the questions it raises about him amongst the ranks.
SPIERS: "... I bet if you went back two thousand years, you'd find a couple of centurions standing around yakking about how Tertius lopped the heads off of some Carthaginian prisoners."
LIPTON: "Well, sir, maybe they kept talking about it because they never heard Tertius deny it."
SPIERS: "Well, maybe that's because Tertius knew there was some value to the men thinking he was the meanest, toughest sonofabitch in the whole Roman Legion."
As a combat leader, inspiring obedience in his troops is the greater part of Spiers' job; making them confident in his courage, skills and judgement is a part of that, but not always all of it. And the rumours were never about him being capricious: he supposedly shot a drunk man who refused a direct order in the field — which is harsh and permanent, but within his authority as a field-expedient punishment — and just as supposedly gunned down PWs that the 101st Airborne could not spare the time or manpower to hold and guard. (That last part was specifically noted in the 101st's standing orders before the drop, I would note.) Even paratroopers are unlikely to mouth off to a man who's rumoured to shoot men who waste time arguing instead of doing what they're told. Dick Winters' personnel-management style didn't involve a lot of 'or else', because he found other ways to motivate men; Spiers made it clear from the outset that he could lead the men or drive them, but either way they would obey him. Both styles work, and both have their pros and cons.
 
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The issue of junior-ranked officers leading their small unit directly is generally regarded as a "when necessary" sort of deal. If a junior officer stepping up and charging the enemy is what is necessary to get a pinned unit moving, then that is a alright as far as the military is concerned. Leading by example and all. Just so long as the junior officer knows that once the unit is moving, it's time for him to step back and get back to commanding the unit instead of leading it.
 
The issue of junior-ranked officers leading their small unit directly is generally regarded as a "when necessary" sort of deal. If a junior officer stepping up and charging the enemy is what is necessary to get a pinned unit moving, then that is a alright as far as the military is concerned. Leading by example and all. Just so long as the junior officer knows that once the unit is moving, it's time for him to step back and get back to commanding the unit instead of leading it.

So the junior officer shouldn't be leading the charge with sword and pistol.
 
So the junior officer shouldn't be leading the charge with sword and pistol.

Obviously not normally. A junior officers job is to command first, lead second, fight third. The weapon he normally carries, usually an assault rifle these days but in WW2 it would be a rifle or submachine gun, is actually his secondary weapon and his sidearm is his third. His primary weapon is the small unit (platoon/company) he commands and leads. Normally it's the NCO's job to lead the enlisted into the enemy positions, but if the NCO's are freezing up then it is perfectly acceptable for the officer to step up until they unfreeze, partly by getting them to unfreeze by stepping up.

When you get up to mid and senior officers, in command of sub-units (battalions), units (regiments/brigades), and formations (division+) fighting drops even further down the list of importance.
 
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