Something akin to the Doolittle Raid?
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
honestly we did do a reverse Pearl in OTL, twice in fact if you count the Rabaul attack.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Hm. So, the Japaense girls haven't broken through? Or at least don't know it's possible. That's kind of strange to me, then again we've only seem Yamamoto.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
She was in San Diego being refit, iirc. Getting her 8" guns removed much like Sara.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
We don't know if there is any Japanese traveler, but I suspect not. At a minimum, he would be aiming for a date where all the USN carriers were in Pearl and November 30th...is not one (Sara's coming out of refit and Lex and E are busy). At a minimum, I'd do it after Sara arrives at Pearl.
Nagato being a spirit fits with the known AU canon, since we saw Italian girls (Turbine), Royal Navy girls (Hood), and Kriegsmarine girls (Blucher, Bismarck) on screen, plus reference to others (Prinz Eugen, etc). No reason why the IJN ships don't have their own spirits watching with possible rare interactions with crew especially connected to them. As far as we know, this is Nagato from 1941, otherwise she would have taken steps to prevent the tragedy she knows is in the future for her crew, her navy, her country and her sisters (see: Pacific War 1941-45). If she knew what was going to happen, she would be yelling at Yamamoto at the top of her lungs, not watching silently.
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- Location
- Canada
Given the evolution into Bullshito, I'm not surprised in the least, because the pre-war Japanese ideal of a woman was, to put it politely, a simpering doormat who can't be bothered to do anything unless her husband's interests are being trodden on. I don't give a wooden nickle what this "Yamato Nadeshiko" trope is supposed to be like, that's the reality of how it actually was. The trope was just a trap to convince Japanese women to be doormats, just like Confucianism was intended to make Chinese women into doormats in the name of stability... and it worked.
I should probably stop here before this becomes a rant about treatment of women in Asia as a whole. Well, at least Japan never caught the cripple fetish/conspicuous consumption disease that was Chinese foot-binding (an eternal stain upon the honour of all Chinese everywhere. I should know, I am acutely aware of its long shadow...)
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- Location
- Barcelona, Catalunya, EU (for now)
Not exactly. The Yamato Nadeshiko ideal applies only to unmarried, high station, ladies. Women of lower stations are not supposed to embrace the Yamato Nadeshiko ideal. They must be invisible in general. Priestesses, known in Japanese as "Miko" can also become Yamato Nadeshiko. This is why several shipgirls wear outfits strongly based on Miko outfits, like the Kongous and the Fusous.
Japanese wives, regardless of station, were supposed to be totally subservient to their husbands, and not have any opinion of their own just in case their husbands say something different. It's also true that Japanese wives had also absolute rule on the day-to-day of any Japanese house. But that was because supposedly, it was beneath the attention of the lord of the house.
- Location
- Canada
Stop, please. This is the sort of text provocation that gets me to look for a certain good Gordon Freeman picture to post (with crowbar) to post... And then get warnings from mods for depictions of excessive violence (against aliens in that case).
I got that for hate-bonering against Umbridge in a thread on SB once. I have no intention of such here... though this post should adequately communicate how much I loathe the Arrogance of Men.
Incidentally, it also makes me feel better about the alternate WWII I'm going to be writing over on AH.com. EDIT: See link in signature (currently at early 1913 in TL, so WWI is coming up soon, and at an extreme low point in SI-US relations so expect anti-Americanism galore).
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- Location
- Barcelona, Catalunya, EU (for now)
If you interpreted my post as containing some kind of approval, I apologize. I tried to depict the situation of pre-ww2 Japanese wives in a most clinical and objective way.
The worst of it is that it wasn't specially sexist for their time, and it was quite common even in countries that called themselves "civilized". Women were good for keeping the house, having children, and keeping any opinions they had to themselves.
For a personal example, I was born in Spain, in 1965. I guess a lot of people have checked my profile and seen that. But what a lot of people don't get is that I was born during the dictatorship of General Franco, who died when I was ten years old. I was raised in one of the most backwards and sexist societies that existed in Western Europe. I remember my mother wanting to take driving lessons, and my father, as "responsible male", had to sign a paper that allowed her to get a driving license. That bad.
So, no. I don't approve or condone sexism.
- Location
- Canada
I NEVER accused you of such.
I was just saying that we should stop here before I go on another rage rant against the Arrogance of Men and end up getting modhammered for being off-topic.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
And with a lot less training against an enemy that at least knew he was in a war (and by that point not winning). The bombing of Rabaul was in many ways Halsey finest moment as an admiral and USS Saratoga as a fleet carrier, launching the entire plane complement to the fray and depending on army aviation to protect the carriers while they spooked the enemy's cruiser force and neutralizing the threat to the Bouganville landing.
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- Location
- Europe
I hope Ari makes it.
ijnfleetadmiral
CinC Rengo Kanmusutai
- Location
- Admiral's Bridge, HIJMS Kongo
I have a feeling she might...as of right now, she, Sara, and Utah seem to be the main shipgirl characters.
- Location
- Canada
The question is, will Ari make it as Ari... or as R-E?
I wrote a joke oneshot once where a Re-class battleship accidentally gets summoned into League of Legends, because some moron failed in summoning Ahri. Ahri, R-E, reads the same, right?
"I am Re, I stand between the candle and the star.
We are Re, we stand between the darkness and the light."
-Summoning line of the vast majority of Re-class battleships-
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
I do too, or at worst she winds up sunk but salvageable like WeeVee. Assuming that she's in harbor when the attack hits, the question then becomes if she catches another golden BB hit to the forward main armament magazines. That also depends on exactly what happened with the fatal bomb hit off Hiryu's aircraft to detonate the magazine, which we don't know with certainty because of the catastrophic destruction of the relevant areas of the ship.
If the first main theory (bomb detonated the black powder magazine for the catapult which caused a chain reaction into the forward magazine, possibly aided by hatches that should have been closed being open) is accurate, it's possible that with better pre-attack housekeeping she might survive. Certainly Ari knowing that a magazine explosion killed her in OTL (pretty much a given, since that's the iconic image of Pearl Harbor) and being able to communicate with Admiral Kidd would allow her to 'encourage' the crew to keep proper explosives safety at anchor (blast hatches closed, proper storage of powder and flammables, etc). That might result in a bad wound but survivable, especially with quick damage control and flooding the forward magazines* to prevent a nearby fire from setting off the smokeless powder (which is what this theory posits given the known time lapse between bomb impact and explosion thanks to the film of her destruction).
If the second main theory is accurate (bomb penetrated and exploded inside the forward magazine causing the smokeless powder to go up and blow the ship apart), she's pretty much doomed if it happens. The initial blast of the bomb will probably kill any crew present in the magazine and once that happens the situation with any fire in the magazine is pretty hopeless.
*This is what saved HMS Lion at Jutland, incidentally. Q turret was hit, fire spread to the shell handling room, which caused the ready cordite charges to ignite and explode. The magazine had been flooded immediately which prevented it going up despite the doors being 'severely buckled'. The mortally wounded man who gave that order was awarded the Victoria Cross posthumously.
EDIT-Just to clarify, the forward main magazine blew, that's not in question. The question is if it was a direct hit or if there was a chain of events that could have been stopped. The delay between bomb strike and explosion was cited in the 1944 analysis to suggest it was black powder since smokeless powder should not have ignited and exploded that fast. Since everyone present in/around the magazines was killed and the damage was so extensive**, that's the best that we can do.
**The Arizona's forward guns are separated from the bow by a 100-foot mass of debris and twisted armor that once was the forward deck. Divers Report USS Arizona Blown in Two in Pearl Harbor Raid
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- Location
- Nashville
And would that really help? We know that the travelers have been here for several months now. If you were seeing a nightmare repeat, with no way to interact with anyone, exactly how long would it take before any of us stop believing that it is even possible to change anything? As far as Nagato would know in this scenario, Pearl Harbor is happening again, and nothing seems to have changed. The only reason the USN ships even kept trying was because they knew it was possible. Nagato does not have such an advantage.
EDIT: Thompson had newspapers to see the butterfly, Nagato may as well be in a sealed box...
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- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
Well, if I were Kancolle Nagato, I would be doing my best to interact with anyone to try to derail what is to happen. Any future-Nagato would know that interacting with humans is possible since she did it in the future. Note, this does not necessarily mean 'appear in front of Admiral Yamamoto', it could be done by using her communications gear to send out a 'hey we need to talk' message similar to the one Bismarck gave to the RN battleship. She also could presumably talk to other ships (Mutsu certainly) and try to work the problem from multiple angles similar to the shipgirl conspiracy in Pearl started by Utah to get lines of communication to their crew/commanders.
Presumably she would also have access to IJN data, being the Combined Fleet's flagship so would be potentially 'in the room' for planning sessions, intelligence briefings, and so on. Some of which would reflect changes in the timeline such as Hood not being sunk, Taranto's date changed and so on.
Now, all this said, I doubt that this Nagato is a time traveler from the future.
We have one known data point of divergence for Japan (Pearl Harbor being hit a week early). This makes no logical sense if this is the actions of a time traveler, since the time traveler would insist on sinking the USN carriers, and on November 30th, Saratoga's well clear of Pearl coming out of her refit in Puget Sound, Lexington is getting her 8 inch guns removed, and Enterprise would be away delivering fighters in OTL.
Now, it is certainly possible that the IJN got bad intelligence on ship movements, but I have a hard time buying that the Japanese would miss Saratoga's scheduled refit which puts her out of the area where she can be attacked for several months. Sara being refitted means that if Pearl is hit, you will have at least one intact carrier in the Pacific after the attack (since it can be assumed that said refit will be massively expedited to get her into action). Now, for the IJN battleship admirals, one more aircraft carrier available means very little since the US Pacific fleet's battle squadrons are ravaged in preparation for the fleet-on-fleet Decisive Battle ala Jutland or Tsushima. For any time traveler like Schreiber or Thompson, they would know that the carrier was the key piece of Pacific War naval force projection, with the US battleships being very much secondary.
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Sir_Braazmiir
Tiefling Paladin
- Location
- Wherever I am
All this talk of a Japanese time-traveller seems legit, but I have an (admittedly batshit) alternate.
What if this butterfly was the work of the Abyssals?
Like I said, the theory is bugfuck nuts.
What if this butterfly was the work of the Abyssals?
Like I said, the theory is bugfuck nuts.
- Location
- Canada
Because ships can't read papers onboard, or listen to onboard gossip?
I disagree with your claim
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Let's hope not, because if the Abyssals got enough future knowledge and current intel to actually manipulate something like the extremely secret Attack of Pearl Harbour then they must know about the allied codebreakers, a piece of knowledge that if revealed to the wrong persons will prolong the war for years.
- Location
- State of Denial
Which reminds me, have we seen Schreiber make any mental note of Ultra and how that could affect his plans?
Burning Baron
This position needs more entrenching.
- Location
- In here, not out there.
He definitely already knows. My guess is he'll make a plan, then do something else at sea.