Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

I could've sworn the plan was to leave the Philippines to dry and tie down the Japanese while at it, and while they're distracted, build up fleet strength and supply lines before marching westward and slowly smashing them in through sheer weight of numbers, if nothing else.
The plan for the Phillipines wasn't to have it relieved. It was judged to have suffiicient defenses to make a Japanese invasion costly and time consuming. Military planners knew that they could not truly defend the Phillipines, which is why the Asiatic squadron was mostly cruisers and the Phillipines had a ton of PT boats. Think of it like a forward operating base for privateers/pirates in the Age of Sail. It wasn't meant to hold back a major invasion, it was there to extract losses on Japan by many small cuts. MacArthur really messed up by being overconfident and having his air power caught on the ground.

Yes. Plan Orange was once war broke out secure the West Coast/Panama Canal while the fleet was staffed to wartime levels (peacetime was approximately 50% of wartime staffing). Once that was done, then move to relieve the forces that were tying down the Japanese in the Western Pacific. This would also presumably include transfers from Atlantic Fleet, such as Yorktown for instance. Then you sail off to smash the IJN in the Decisive Battle straight out of Mahan's theories and blockade the Japanese into surrender.

The major danger would be to activate this before fully ready and lose chunks of the fleet in the process if Pacific Fleet is lightly damaged and presumably has the 'strength' to relieve the Western Pacific garrisons. In OTL Pearl Harbor prevented any premature attempts to move into the Western Pacific because a lot of the USN's battleships were sitting on the harbor bottom. If you add those ships to the order of battle, then that becomes a nonissue and it could be argued by the battleship admirals that this proves that airplanes are not a threat to USN battleships (untrue), and anyway there's no evidence of battleships at sea getting sunk by aircraft versus sunk at anchor at Taranto (technically true until Repulse and Prince of Wales get sunk off Malaya later in the war). Add in the distinct possibility that Admiral Richardson might be removed from his position pending inquiries into what happened at Pearl Harbor, and replaced with someone with different views on airpower (IE Kimmel) and....

Again, with perfect hindsight, we know that the day of the battleship as the top tier method of projecting naval power had passed by 1941. The admirals at the time did not know that pre-Pearl Harbor and it was a very contentious subject inside the US Navy leading up to the war. Pearl Harbor settled that discussion by first giving carrier advocates plenty of ammunition for their point of view (ammunition named Oklahoma, Arizona, West Virginia...) and by second making it so the only main battle combatants the USN had for most of 1942 in any quantity were the carriers, who proved themselves at Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, and Santa Cruz. By the time the USN battleship force had been rebuilt with the new construction and raising the ships from Pearl, carrier primacy was proven beyond any reasonable doubt, hence the cancellation of the last Iowas and planned Montana-class battleships.
 
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Seriously, have you seen WWII portrayal of Japan/Japanese/Tojo? Sure, some of it was racist wartime propoganda, but a lot of people wound up in the combat zone believing all Japanese aviators had buck teeth and bifocal glasses, for example.

Also you missed the context of my analysis of a situation where Pearl Harbor was a failure and not as damaging as in OTL. At that point, people are going to think that the 'little yellow monkeys' bungled a sneak attack because they are just that incompetent/inferior. That could result in a dusting off of War Plan Orange

Wartime portrayal to new recruits? That's one thing.

What the men actually know when they sit down at the pub during a break from work in late December, 1941 in OTL? They'll know that the Japs hit them good. Sure, it was fucking cowardly, but they still struck a heavy blow while the USN was slacking off.

The men at the business end for a couple battles would at least take the IJN seriously. Doing otherwise is a great way to get people to collect your life insurance.

...
No. Orange was never going to be pursued regardless, by order of Washington IIRC. It is called a Defence in Depth, with the periphery serving as what amounts to ablative armour to blunt the enemy's blows.
...But if it does, that would be a spectacular fic by bashing the battleship bastards' heads in while going on a lemming train west.
 
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Once that was done, then move to relieve the forces that were tying down the Japanese in the Western Pacific
You don't quite get it. The Philippines were not supposed to be relieved. If they held out, then they held out, but it was figured that any holdout would be a miracle at best. But they were expected to fall, but bloody Japan's nose in the process.
 
You don't quite get it. The Philippines were not supposed to be relieved. If they held out, then they held out, but it was figured that any holdout would be a miracle at best. But they were expected to fall, but bloody Japan's nose in the process.

To be fair, I don't think anyone expected the Philippines to fall quite that quickly...
 
To be fair, I don't think anyone expected the Philippines to fall quite that quickly...

True. My argument isn't if it's possible to relive the Phillippines, it really isn't realistically possible. The logistics and secure basing just aren't there in 1941-42 for any kind of a naval offensive into the Western Pacific.

The problem would come in if US public opinion pushes for a premature relief of them, or, for that matter if the people implementing US naval strategy overestimate their chances of sending the fleet that way. In OTL they fell fast and Pacific Fleet was shattered after Pearl Harbor and clearly in no state to try to relieve them, and even then there was some public pressure to Do Something about MacArthur's men rather than write them off. Which is why MacArthur was pulled out to Australia and not relieved of command after the surrender of Corrigedor. Given a stronger USN presence (possible in our AU), underestimation of IJN capabilities (possible as a result of the first), and MacArthur holding out longer (he could hardly bungle it worse than in OTL, after all), and that public pressure mounts. US military history is not exactly unfamiliar with this phenomenon causing early-war fiascoes such as First Bull Run/First Manassas.
 
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The old War Plan Orange that @SisterJeanne is referring to had been abandoned sometime in the late 1930s, as even the most stubborn holdouts in the Navy bureaucracy had been convinced that, once Japan pulled out of the treaty system, it was not going to be possible. Something in me wants to say that it was 1937 that the new plan was adopted, whereby the US would essentially leave the Philippines to wither on the vine, and attempt to lure the Japanese into a Decisive Battle in American home waters instead; should that fail, once the fleet was built up to a sufficient degree, we'd do a little bit of island hopping to get a train of bases to Japan--either from Midway, or from the Aleutians, depending on what was decided to be the better strategic option--and go as directly as possible to blockading Japan into surrender, with land-based bombers pounding the Home Islands to try and eliminate their land-based air cover before we attempted any kind of Decisive Battle in Japanese home waters.

Once this plan was in place, the Asiatic Fleet and US Army forces in the Philippines were intended to be nothing more than sacrificial "speed bumps" that would slow the Japanese down and bleed them a bit. There was no plan to retake the Philippines once they fell; indeed, the only reason we did so in the actual war was MacArthur's political clout--the Navy wanted to go directly to the island-hopping campaign in the Solomons and bypass the Philippines entirely, but MacArthur had made his famous "I will return!" declaration and his ego wouldn't allow for him to return in any way but liberating the Philippines by force, rather than after a Japanese surrender. This definitely cost thousands of American lives; arguments can also be made that it extended the Pacific War by as much as a year by delaying the northern island-hopping campaign.

To be fair, I don't think anyone expected the Philippines to fall quite that quickly...
Ehhhh... they didn't expect them to last more than a few months, tops, once Japan landed troops. I think the only surprise was that the Japanese managed the coordinated assault where they landed essentially simultaneously with the Pearl Harbor attack; we expected them to only be able to pull off one major operation at a time.

True. My argument isn't if it's possible to relive the Phillippines, it really isn't realistically possible. The logistics and secure basing just aren't there in 1941-42 for any kind of a naval offensive into the Western Pacific.

The problem would come in if US public opinion pushes for a premature relief of them, or, for that matter if the people implementing US naval strategy overestimate their chances of sending the fleet that way. In OTL they fell fast and Pacific Fleet was shattered after Pearl Harbor and clearly in no state to try to relieve them, and even then there was some public pressure to Do Something about MacArthur's men rather than write them off. Which is why MacArthur was pulled out to Australia and not relieved of command after the surrender of Corrigedor. Given a stronger USN presence (possible in our AU), underestimation of IJN capabilities (possible as a result of the first), and MacArthur holding out longer (he could hardly bungle it worse than in OTL, after all), and that public pressure mounts. US military history is not exactly unfamiliar with this phenomenon causing early-war fiascoes such as First Bull Run/First Manassas.
And the point you're missing is that there would be no relief attempt made. At all.

US military strategy for war with Japan at the time stated that the Philippines were to be written off, period, and then bypassed. The pressure to Do Something about MacArthur's men would probably result in, not a relief operation, but an evacuation operation, where they would be pulled out to Australia along with Mac. And even then, it might well be only a token gesture to placate public opinion instead of something seriously intended to succeed--have the Asiatic Fleet attempt to evacuate them entirely using its organic forces, for example, rather than transferring any forces from Pacific Fleet to assist, with the public excuse being that it would have taken too long to transfer said forces. (Indeed, the Navy would love that option; it gives the Asiatic Fleet a chance to go out in a blaze of glory instead of being slowly picked to death, AND it increases the chances that MacArthur dies before reaching Australia, removing someone who was already a thorn in their side even before the start of the war.)
 
I think that during the design of the North Carolinas the US Navy understood that the future was the Carrier. That's why they demanded faster speeds. Granted, they did lower the max from what they wanted but slower Capitol Ships weren't going to happen.

Also, once the Navy realised how fast the Nagatos were they realised that the Standards and their tactics were in trouble, if not gone. Of course, since a Battleship is An Investement they had to work with them.
 
Well, the SoDak (1929) class was supposed to be faster, IIRC. Somewhere in the 23-25 knot range. Not exactly speedboat status, but notably faster than the Standards.
 
And even once the WNT was signed and agreed to, there was room in it that the Navy floated the option of putting the higher psi boilers and better engines of the 1920 SoDaks into the Colorados so as to not waste the engines and boost the speed of the Colorados. That refit also would have included the Mk2 guns of the SoDaks replacing the Colorados Mk1 guns. The idea was floated to Congress and Congress wasn't going to pay for it. Since those engines would have increased the SHP of the Colorado from 28-30K SHP to almost double that, it probably would have increased the Colorado's speed to 24-25 knots.
 
And even once the WNT was signed and agreed to, there was room in it that the Navy floated the option of putting the higher psi boilers and better engines of the 1920 SoDaks into the Colorados so as to not waste the engines and boost the speed of the Colorados. That refit also would have included the Mk2 guns of the SoDaks replacing the Colorados Mk1 guns. The idea was floated to Congress and Congress wasn't going to pay for it. Since those engines would have increased the SHP of the Colorado from 28-30K SHP to almost double that, it probably would have increased the Colorado's speed to 24-25 knots.

...With all due respect, *BLEEP* congresscritters *BLEEP* *BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP*

...That's my opinion from playing the Colorado in World of Warships and having the only engine upgrade be a tiny little thing.
 
I think that during the design of the North Carolinas the US Navy understood that the future was the Carrier. That's why they demanded faster speeds. Granted, they did lower the max from what they wanted but slower Capitol Ships weren't going to happen.

Also, once the Navy realised how fast the Nagatos were they realised that the Standards and their tactics were in trouble, if not gone. Of course, since a Battleship is An Investement they had to work with them.

Being able to keep up with the carriers was part of the reason for the NorCals, yes, but also the modernization of the Kongos was a major driver, since the USN did not have any fast battleship/battlecruisers to counter them. Also dinding out Nagato could do 26 knots was a factor in the design of the SoDaks.
 
...With all due respect, *BLEEP* congresscritters *BLEEP* *BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP*

...That's my opinion from playing the Colorado in World of Warships and having the only engine upgrade be a tiny little thing.

I know I heard of something... I know! the Kellogg Briand Pact... wait a sec that doesn't sound right...
 
>not home yet so mobile

SoDak (1920) was intended as a new Standard...no pun intended. To move the speed from 21 to 23 knots for the battle line.

Also, sticking those engines in Colorado wouldn't have increased her speed much. Stick all the power in that you want, it doesn't change the hull form itself being intended for lower speeds.

See: Kongou

(Her class struggled at their new max speed, post-refit, because the design really wasn't meant for it)
 
1)
Any captured IJN shipgirl probably wouldn't be brought into the US Navy, at very least not the Pacific commands. If USN, possibly the Atlantic, but the safest choice would be to assign her to the Coast Guard. That way the Coast Guard gets a hull, the Navy doesn't have to give up any construction space for a Coastie boat, and the IJN girl would find most of her mission being working off the coast and doing a lot of lifesaving.
"It is I, Yamato, who has come to help you, lost fisherman!"
"Hory Shit."

2) Re: Turbo electric
I thought these things were all turbine powered? Wouldn't that mean it doesn't really thump? (Or is this more MSSB)
(I mean, artificial turbine hearts are a thing, if still experimental)
 
Regardless of rank an officer like that would do a lot of damage, mostly because every naval academy nowadays uses the japanese tactical and operational mistakes as examples of how not to do things, and Pacific War battles and campaigns for training officers in operational and logistical planning so the academy commander knows more about the pacific than the average WWII operations planner. While I do mention often the absolute disaster the discovery of the allied efforts in criptology giving the japanese submarines free reign for merchant hunting operations and doing even a token effort to cooperate with the Army would make the american's island hopping strategy a lot harder.
Depends, if he's lower on the food chain like tanaka, there's a good chance he'll get himself canned like Thompson almost did while achieving little, and even if he isn't by the time Pearl happens your pretty much looking at Tanaka 2.0
 
Depends, if he's lower on the food chain like tanaka, there's a good chance he'll get himself canned like Thompson almost did while achieving little, and even if he isn't by the time Pearl happens your pretty much looking at Tanaka 2.0
Why would he be canned?

If his time-travel allowed hindsight lets him help develop more aggressive strategies, and nails Pearl even harder than in the OTL, he'd be promoted. Quickly. And being ballsy enough to actually talk to the IJA? Possibly via increasing their value by pointing out key islands to fortify long BEFORE they were selected as being critical to the war effort OTL, and thus, being fully dug in in this timeline? Imagine if he pointed out Guadalcanal months early, and the IJA was fully dug-in and reinforced with a finished runway long before May '42, which is when they originally even landed there. That would turn that campaign into a meatgrinder far nastier than the canon OTL.

That would raise him up even higher in the eyes of his superiors.
 
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Why would he be canned?

If his time-travel allowed hindsight lets him help develop more aggressive strategies, and nails Pearl even harder than in the OTL, he'd be promoted. Quickly. And being ballsy enough to actually talk to the IJA? Possibly via increasing their value by pointing out key islands to fortify long BEFORE they were selected as being critical to the war effort OTL, and thus, being fully dug in in this timeline? Imagine if he pointed out Guadalcanal months early, and the IJA was fully dug-in and reinforced with a finished runway long before May '42, which is when they originally even landed there. That would turn that campaign into a meatgrinder far nastier than the canon OTL.

That would raise him up even higher in the eyes of his superiors.

Well, the problem right now is that it's highly likely that Pearl goes no worse for the USN than in OTL. Barring butterflies resulting from the increased carrier ops tempo having one of them in harbor Nov 30th for a brief stop (unknown till the next update), it's highly likely that the result is about the same as in OTL (Battleship Row hit, carriers out of the danger zone) with similar long-term results. There's a LOT of institutional rancor and bad blood between the IJN and IJA dating back to the 1870s (one of the root causes of their hostility is that the original officer pool for their creation was drawn from historically feuding samurai clans who self-segregated). Even if he extends an olive branch it's likely to get shot out of his hands. The only way to get realistic IJN/IJA strategic coordination would probably be Hirohito to put his foot down hard, which was not part of his command makeup.

Now, there are things that a time-traveling Yamamoto could do to unscrew things the IJN did wrong, such as using his carriers en masse and only for truly critical actions as opposed to actions like raiding Ceylon in '42. Just making it a policy that either all six carriers of the Kido Butai sortied as a unit or none did would help immensely (Imagine Coral Sea or Midway if all six had been present). Another big thing to help would be ASW and convoy emphasis along with fixing aircrew training and replacement policies and untethering airwings from their assigned carrier. That said, such efforts would be futile, since eventually the USN would just throw more ships and planes at the Japanese spearhead until it shattered ala Midway and that would be that.

As for Guadacanal, the IJN would have to get IJA buy-in to get the troops to take the island and garrison it, which would be massively problematic. To the IJA, any troops sent to the Pacific are NOT being used in more critical theaters such as China, watching the Soviets in Manchuria, or taking/garrisoning SE Asia. The USA is not a strategic land threat to them (As opposed to China, and Russia). Also you need shipping to support the garrison, otherwise you wind up with the situation you had at Rabaul where your garrison is cut off and as out of the war as they shot each other in the heart. Even if Guadacanal fell, while it would have a negative impact on convoy routing to Australia, Australia really really was not a viable strategic target for Japan. Japan's ability to project power over great distances was limited at best.

Finally, another problem the IJN had was that doctrinally it discouraged initiative to an alarming degree*. Battle plans were coordinated and timetabled to an mind-boggling degree. Case in point, the Midway ground invasion force left on schedule, the Kido Butai was delayed a day because of provisioning difficulties getting ready to sail. Rather than delay the invasion 24 hours which Nagumo wanted, Yamamoto ordered that the invasion would happen on the given date, although that put his troop transports in proximity to Midway, and gave Kido Butai one less day to neutralize Midway and secure the sea area around it. If and when the plan went off the rails, Japanese contingency planning and improvisation was poor at best. To pick on Midway again, the part of the plan that dictated seaplane reconnaissance of Pearl Harbor before the attack failed before the scheduled attack but there were no provisions to change the plan with it's failure even though one stated goal was to lure the USN out of harbor for the Decisive Battle. All of these are things that can't be changed overnight, or even in a period of years. Our time-traveler would very much be swimming upstream and as a maverick, he would either have to produce massively or it would be likely he would get shunted aside because of rocking the boat too much.

*Another good example of this was damage control training. IJN doctrine was damage control was a matter for highly trained specialists, USN doctrine was that everyone got trained in the basics with the DC teams trained in part to coordinate the first responders. Very frequently in the war, USN DC teams arrived to find the crewmen near a damaged area already taking action to plug leaks, fight fires and so on on their own initiative (a good example of this was the ship's chaplain on Franklin getting the CMOH in part for leading firefighting efforts and helping save the magazines after a kamikaze hit). IJN crew tended to wait until the specialists showed since it 'wasn't their job' rather than perform immediate ad-hoc actions that they were not trained for. Father O'Callahan went from 'administer Last Rites for the dying' to 'lead a scratch team of sailors into a magazine next to a fire to wet down munitions threatening to blow the ship open'. Not in the Padre's job description at all.
 
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Also a losing japanese commander's first instinct is to perform either a Do-or-Die action or to simply try a suicide attack where they could die gloriously in a pile of his men bodies. It was so common that the allied planners actually did their estimates including the inevitable banzai charges after they took any tactical important location, which was part of the reason they miscalculated the timeframe of the ops in Iwo-Jima so bad when Kubayashi trained his men to fight smart and don't give up so easily.

In the sea the problem was actually the opposite, with the japanese naval commanders being unwilling to risk their heavier units in combat to the point that some american defeats such as Savo Island or Samar were reduced or even turn back because the japanese had the impulse to retire upon perceived but unconfirmed threats. In fact the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal might have saved Hiei and turned into a japanese victory if the damaged fleet pushed itself towards the island and bombarded Henderson Field instead of trying to retire.
 
2) Re: Turbo electric
I thought these things were all turbine powered? Wouldn't that mean it doesn't really thump? (Or is this more MSSB)
(I mean, artificial turbine hearts are a thing, if still experimental)
All the ships are turbine-powered except for Arkansas, Utah, New York, Texas, and Oklahoma. Turbo-electric merely means that instead of having the turbines directly drive the propellers, either by a simple shaft arrangement (as in early turbine-powered ships) or by a more-efficient gear reduction system (as in pretty much every steam turbine powered ship built since about 1910 other than pre-Washington Treaty US capital ships, including nuclear-powered ships), the turbines are used to spin generators, which provide electricity to drive large electric motors that turn the propellers. Adopted because it had some operational advantages (no need for backing stages on the turbines, being able to run the engines in reverse at any power level, etc.) and because it allowed for much greater compartmentization of the machinery spaces, it was dropped from US designs after the Washington Treaty because, frankly, it was just too damn heavy for the power levels it put out, compared to a two-stage gear reduction arrangement. (Two attempts were made to revive it on US nuclear submarines in the 60s and 70s; both eventually foundered on the increased size required combined with poor reliability. Reputedly, the new Ford-class CVNs use it to get past the power bottleneck that is the strength of the reduction gears, since that's held US carrier power output steady for the last 60 years and as the ships get bigger, they're having more and more trouble making 30 knots.)

In the sea the problem was actually the opposite, with the japanese naval commanders being unwilling to risk their heavier units in combat to the point that some american defeats such as Savo Island or Samar were reduced or even turn back because the japanese had the impulse to retire upon perceived but unconfirmed threats. In fact the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal might have saved Hiei and turned into a japanese victory if the damaged fleet pushed itself towards the island and bombarded Henderson Field instead of trying to retire.
That was pretty much true in all navies of the time. One of the biggest effects of the Washington Treaty is that it, at a stroke of a pen, wiped out the large reserve fleets of older battleships that could be risked in hazardous duties. (An example of doing so would be the Royal Navy throwing its obsolete pre-dreadnoughts at the Gallipoli operation in World War One, knowing that they'd lose several of them; the ships were no longer of any real front-line use, and thus could be expended that way rather than keeping them in reserve and eventually scrapping them.) The US disposed of over 20 battleships to comply with the Treaty, for example, including not only pre-dreads, but its first two dreadnoughts, South Carolina and Michigan. Between the mass scrappings that resulted and the fifteen-year moratorium on battleship construction, battleships of any ilk were now more precious than diamonds and, effectively, too valuable to risk. (The only reason the Kongous saw use in the Solomons, for example, was that they were the least-capable battleships Japan had, and it was felt that their speed would be enough to let them escape pretty much any serious danger.)

The result was that all commanders were loathe to risk their capital ships. It was already seen as poor form to put them at unnecessary risk (the term "capital ship" actually comes from accounting, where battleships and battlecruisers were so big and expensive that they were categorized as capital assets that needed to be maintained as long as possible, whereas cruisers and destroyers were expendable assets that could be used up, disposed of, and replaced), so it was already expected that one would withdraw if he took serious damage rather than fight to the death (if possible); the fact that capital ships were now so few in number meant that commanders were now loathe to even risk them taking any significant damage, and thus would hold them back from most risky duties. Indeed, in the Solomons, this meant that, on both sides, cruisers operated in what would have been traditionally considered battleship roles, simply because the battleships Could Not Be Risked in such dangerous roles, while the more numerous cruisers could.

As for Samar, Kurita made the right call in retiring. Sure, he could have stuck around and finished off Taffy 3, but what then? He's already taken serious damage with several cruisers crippled (and Maya getting ready to sink), his fleet is scattered because of his switch to a "general attack" because conditions quickly meant that he could no longer really control his forces, his most powerful unit (Yamato) is badly out of position relative to the rest because she had to run directly away from the fight for half an hour while combing very real and very confirmed torpedo wakes, he was unaware that TF33 had gone running off after Ozawa's decoy force and, as far as he knew, they could be just over the horizon, about to pounce on him, and while his ships now had enough fuel to get to the anchorage at Leyte, they would have to fight their way in... and then, as soon as they got in, they'd have to turn around and head back because their fuel supplies were critically low. Had the operation happened a couple of days before, prior to the Marine landings, he probably would have gone ahead, because then he could have sunk the invasion force and if he had to scuttle some of his ships on the way home because there wasn't enough fuel to get them home, so be it. However, with the landings completed, all he was going to be able to do was provide shore bombardment... and that requires being able to stay on station for a long time. And he didn't have the gas to do that.

So yeah, fleet scattered, significant losses taken, the possibility of the Entire Fucking US Navy just over the horizon, and not enough fuel to do anything of real value had he pushed through? Time to cut your losses and withdraw. Based on the information he had at the time, preserving what he had left for future operations was more important than anything he could accomplish by continuing the attack.
 
n fact the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal might have saved Hiei and turned into a japanese victory if the damaged fleet pushed itself towards the island and bombarded Henderson Field instead of trying to retire.

Hiei was still capable of something like 1/2 flank when she was ordered scuttled: All because the captain had already given the order and didn't want to countermand himself. It's one of Hiei's quirks in game, she asks to not be abandoned in her night battle line.
 
Hiei was still capable of something like 1/2 flank when she was ordered scuttled: All because the captain had already given the order and didn't want to countermand himself. It's one of Hiei's quirks in game, she asks to not be abandoned in her night battle line.

The problem Hiei had was that she had lost her steering room which was flooded thanks to an 8 inch shell hit presumably off San Fransisco. If she started moving, the room would have uncontrollable flooding and she couldn't maneuver in a controlled fashion. If she stayed slow, the DC folks could start to get ahead of the water inflow and start to repair the steering room damage, but she was staying slow next door to Henderson Field with a hostile carrier in strike distance. It was pretty much a catch 22 complicated by the fact that thanks to the circumstances of her damaging in a confused night engagement, the people giving the orders to break off and not try to tow her, and then scuttle her were all working with various degrees of not knowing what her actual status was. Also not helped by Admiral Abe's staff on Hiei's bridge taking casualties in said night engagement when it was raked by Laffey and others at point-blank range (literally!).

(The only reason the Kongous saw use in the Solomons, for example, was that they were the least-capable battleships Japan had, and it was felt that their speed would be enough to let them escape pretty much any serious danger.)

To piggyback on this the only reason Washington and South Dakota got sent out to fight Kirishima was that the situation was desperate enough that something had to be done, and they were the only night combat capable ships in the area. It's worth noting that their screen was scraped together with four destroyers from four different destroyer divisions who were judged as most battle-capable and had the most fuel rather than one unified DesDiv.
 
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