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Battle Action Harem Highschool Side Character Quest (No SV, you are the Waifu)

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Vote Change:
[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?
 
[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?
 
Nottheunmaker said:
I know, its almost like we don't want to just waste time showing off cool moves and actually build our teamwork, that thing we're really bad at and need to improve on.
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As I said, teamwork building can and will happen in the daily sims we have during class every single day. That's rather the point of those sims.

Anna is literally the best valk there is, she doesn't need that training. This wouldn't do anything for her anyway, the sim is to unrealistic. The other, none Shuri teammates could use the workout, and she use's the time to get used to working with them.
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The sim will be more unrealistic for the others if Anna and Shuri have to hold back. That's not going to happen during real battles, which is what we need to prepare them for fighting as part of our flight. If we want to train them to be prepared to fight with us, it should be in as realistic conditions as we can, but with Moderate difficulty would it would mean that Anna and Shuri would pretty much have to hold back, to the point where there might as well be other people on the flight instead. Difficult gives as much realism as possible without making the other cadets have nothing to contribute.
 
Enjou said:
but with Moderate difficulty would it would mean that Anna and Shuri would pretty much have to hold back, to the point where there might as well be other people on the flight instead.
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Yes, that is generally the point; what are they going to do when we get reassigned? Hope that their new teammates are as good as us? Not likely. If they're going to learn to get better, they're going to learn do it individually, while still working as a team. Not crushing them under simulated antagonist forces, while not letting them do a cakewalk scenario, will let them grow far better than the kind of things that we're used to while not letting them disregard teamwork.
 
Enjou said:
As I said, teamwork building can and will happen in the daily sims we have during class every single day. That's rather the point of those sims.
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Or we could do it now, and not let something important get left to be done off screen.
The sim will be more unrealistic for the others if Anna and Shuri have to hold back. That's not going to happen during real battles, which is what we need to prepare them for fighting as part of our flight. If we want to train them to be prepared to fight with us, it should be in as realistic conditions as we can, but with Moderate difficulty would it would mean that Anna and Shuri would pretty much have to hold back, to the point where there might as well be other people on the flight instead. Difficult gives as much realism as possible without making the other cadets have nothing to contribute.
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Your missing the part where the rest of the fight has to sit back and do nothing because those sims will kick their asses three times to Sunday, thus cutting them out of the training. Difficult isn't any more or less realistic than Moderate, just harder. Yeah, Anna and Shuri don't get to kickass, just chew bubble gum, but they don't need to. They need to learn how the team should work. Hell, you could argue that Difficult is less realistic, as the difficulty implies that Moderate sims are the median, the types of battles they will be engaging in and expected to succeed at.

If all they learn is that Anna and Shuri can beat anything thrown at them, this was a waste of time, nothing more.
 
Enjou said:
Bah! You people bore me. Changing to Random/Difficult so it might still win against this bandwagon.

For more moderate training and building teamwork, the daily training in classes will help with that. This is extra training time, which we should use for Training From Hell, even if not as extreme in terms of time taken daily as what Shuri was doing.
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I agree that there are a lot of benefits to training on a difficult/impossible scenario, but the more important thing (for me) is picking a historical scenario rather than a random one. From an IC perspective, the best data about how the Antagonists operate comes from past battles. Hypothetical situations should be saved for after you've learned everything that you can from history and want to try something new. And from an OOC perspective, there's more storytelling potential from seeing a reenactment of a historical battle. Also, as eraserman said:
eraserman said:
Running Single sweep, showing Anna what her sacrifice allowed the rest of humanity to do and how much land was retaken as a result can only result in good things for Anna.
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Alrigjt guys, let's refresh what we know about the mission difficulties. In the first mission, Shuri expressed doubt that she could carry two newbies through a moderate mission. Notice a key word. Carry. As far as she was concerned, newbies would get shot down with just the 3 of them. The fact that Anna is actually peerless made it look like a joke - but from shuri's perspective it was an unexpected boon.

In essence, even if she was going all out, she wasn't confident she could protect two fresh cadets by herself. The mission itself also said that they should wait for a full flight.

What does this mean. A moderate mission is one in where a full flight is needed, and newbies need to be carried through them.

As said above, they're the average valkryie mission. One a graduate might be expected to do. Setsuna, Koujirou, and even Sandra are relatively new. If it was Shuri by herself going full throttle, she might still fail to save them. Shuri holding back is a definite fail.

Anna and Shuri holding back? It'll still be a hard as fuck mission for three brats fresh to the academy. It's highly likely even in a moderate sim, we'll still have to step in. We're just biased to difficulty because we're just too strong.
 
ArchRegis said:
Alrigjt guys, let's refresh what we know about the mission difficulties. In the first mission, Shuri expressed doubt that she could carry two newbies through a moderate mission. Notice a key word. Carry. As far as she was concerned, newbies would get shot down with just the 3 of them. The fact that Anna is actually peerless made it look like a joke - but from shuri's perspective it was an unexpected boon.

In essence, even if she was going all out, she wasn't confident she could protect two fresh cadets by herself. The mission itself also said that they should wait for a full flight.

What does this mean. A moderate mission is one in where a full flight is needed, and newbies need to be carried through them.

As said above, they're the average valkryie mission. One a graduate might be expected to do. Setsuna, Koujirou, and even Sandra are relatively new. If it was Shuri by herself going full throttle, she might still fail to save them. Shuri holding back is a definite fail.

Anna and Shuri holding back? It'll still be a hard as fuck mission for three brats fresh to the academy. It's highly likely even in a moderate sim, we'll still have to step in. We're just biased to difficulty because we're just too strong.
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But the problem is that even in that Moderate mission... Even Sandra with her Newbie Valk status was wiping things out. The only 'hard' part was at the very end which was a one sided slaughter.
 
LightMage said:
But the problem is that even in that Moderate mission... Even Sandra with her Newbie Valk status was wiping things out. The only 'hard' part was at the very end which was a one sided slaughter.
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Sandra Rolled reasonably well when she was in that sim. She only rolled 6 less than Shuri. Anna did most of the work in that training scenario so if the aces hold back the rookies are going to sweat it pretty hard. We also just spent the last two updates worrying about pushing them to hard so we need to be reasonable. Also Anna is really delicate now and this will be a confidence boost.
 
Enjou said:
The sim will be more unrealistic for the others if Anna and Shuri have to hold back. That's not going to happen during real battles, which is what we need to prepare them for fighting as part of our flight. If we want to train them to be prepared to fight with us, it should be in as realistic conditions as we can, but with Moderate difficulty would it would mean that Anna and Shuri would pretty much have to hold back, to the point where there might as well be other people on the flight instead. Difficult gives as much realism as possible without making the other cadets have nothing to contribute.
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Actually this is wrong. They won't always be part of our flight, and assuming that would be stupid. Sure this is a harem anime, and normally that means the mains stay together for most of, if not all of the show. But at the same time Avalanche is obviously writing a more nuanced and realistic portrayal of the genre, and as a result the flight will likely be split many time throughout the course of it. Do we want the rookies of the flight to have bad habits as a result of us not holding back and training them on appropriate difficulties when something inevitably happens to split the flight along the lines of ace and rookies? Cause that will happen even if we follow genre conventions. Or what if Anna and Shuri are assigned to their designated Type Zero subjugation squads? Do they hope they get 2 aces reassigned to them when all the aces in the region are probably assigned to said Type Zero subjugation squads? Because they're still going to be fighting normal antagonist, probably assigned to keep the combat space clear as the subjugation squads do their work. How are they going to fight if they're use to Anna and Shuri do everything?

Moderate is the best difficulty, and that's ignoring the potential mental benefits that showing Anna the results of the Alaska campaign that she caused to succeed.

ArchRegis said:
Anna and Shuri holding back? It'll still be a hard as fuck mission for three brats fresh to the academy. It's highly likely even in a moderate sim, we'll still have to step in. We're just biased to difficulty because we're just too strong.
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And that's fine. Remember hold back doesn't mean do nothing, it means don't use everything and let the new members pull their weight. Here I'll lay out a scenario to explain how it'll be fine.

Flight one is tasked with advancing up a contested strip of land consisting of a large canyon. Antagonist units currently are both advancing in the canyon and along the two cliff sides at the current moment. An easy way would be to have Anna and Shuri to slowly clear out the cliff sides, simulating the accompanying flights that would probably be with them on such a mission. The rest of the flight breaks through the canyon itself. As a result Anna and Shuri aren't sitting there twiddling their thumbs and the rest of the flight gets valuable combat training. The difference of difficulty will basically be the difference between whether the rest of the flight can actually do anything? A difficult scenario will probably have the flight wiped out in the canyon unless Anna and Shuri burn the cliffs and then swoop in to help, while a medium scenario will probably have the flight making it through the canyon unless Anna and Shuri ignore the cliffs. An easy scenario will probably have the flight succeeding with Anna and Shuri doing nothing.
 
Hanashinobi said:
Sandra Rolled reasonably well when she was in that sim. She only rolled 6 less than Shuri. Anna did most of the work in that training scenario so if the aces hold back the rookies are going to sweat it pretty hard. We also just spent the last two updates worrying about pushing them to hard so we need to be reasonable. Also Anna is really delicate now and this will be a confidence boost.
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I voted...
er I think I re-voted for the Moderate Historical Scenario. I was arguing against newbs getting whipped even in the moderate one.
 
[X]Randomly generated scenario
-[X]Difficult
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?
 
Guile said:
... Why is this the most hotly contested vote in the quest?
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Because some people want to take Blanket-chan's blankets away and replace them with bread. Evil bastards.

Seriously(ish) though, to paraphrase Alfred, some posters just want to watch the world burn (because Anna set it on fire during a mental breakdown).
 
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There's always a strain of thought among the voters in a quest that goes "there's no way the QM will let the quest end like that, and even if they do there's always other quests, so let's vote for whatever seems likely to be the most spectacular in the short run."

It's why, for instance, "kill yourself" was the winning vote in one of TPK's quests a while back.

The phenomenon gets worse the more popular a quest gets.
 
[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
[X] Since there are two aces in the flight now, would you like Shuri and I to hold back further? Or should we stop for the next exercise and decide after that?
 
[X]Historic Scenarios (Moderate)
-[X]Single Sweep (Objective. Fairbanks Breach has been subjugated and Saskatoon Breach has been destroyed by unknown means, the flank is secure, San Francisco Breach is vulnerable, sweep down the coast.)
-[X]Hold back. Allow the others to do most of the work, see if Sandra can put her money where her mouth is. You're still going to intervene if you see one of them in danger though.
 
skaianDestiny said:
Some people want LOLDRAMA and fuck up all of Anna's carefully attained progress while others have her wellbeing in mind.
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Sasha said:
Some posters just want to watch the world burn (because Anna set it on fire during a mental breakdown).
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Candesce said:
There's always a strain of thought among the voters in a quest that goes "there's no way the QM will let the quest end like that, and even if they do there's always other quests, so let's vote for whatever seems likely to be the most spectacular in the short run."

It's why, for instance, "kill yourself" was the winning vote in one of TPK's quests a while back.

The phenomenon gets worse the more popular a quest gets.
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I think maybe you are missing Guile's point: we're not voting on some crucial decision that will affect the rest of the Quest, we're merely voting on which simulation to enter. Simulations are not real and Anna is well aware of that - to the point that her sensors keep pointing out the lack of realism so it's hard for her to suspend her disbelief enough to make them at all useful for training. What is being voted for is just the setting for the next bit of training; it's unlikely that any of the choices would cause the kind of trauma that is being worried about.
 
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skaianDestiny said:
Some people want LOLDRAMA and fuck up all of Anna's carefully attained progress while others have her wellbeing in mind.
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Don't overstate it, people have different priorities and a different analysis of the situation based on their own view of it. They're not aiming to undo Anna's progress, they just think that the Difficult Scenario is the better way to achieve it.
 
boonerunner said:
I think maybe you are missing Guile's point: we're not voting on some crucial decision that will affect the rest of the Quest, we're merely voting on which simulation to enter. Simulations are not real and Anna is well aware of that - to the point that her sensors keep pointing out the lack of realism so it's hard for her to suspend her disbelief enough to make them at all useful for training. What is being voted for is just the setting for the next update; it's unlikely that any of the choices would cause the kind of extreme trauma that is being worried about.
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I was employing hyperbole in a critique of the mindset a number of voters seem to have with regards to this quest, not Guile in particular (I don't even know if Guile is one of the ones in that group, as I wasn't looking at names).
 
boonerunner said:
I think maybe you are missing Guile's point: we're not voting on some crucial decision that will affect the rest of the Quest, we're merely voting on which simulation to enter. Simulations are not real and Anna is well aware of that - to the point that her sensors keep pointing out the lack of realism so it's hard for her to suspend her disbelief enough to make them at all useful for training. What is being voted for is just the setting for the next bit of training; it's unlikely that any of the choices would cause the kind of trauma that is being worried about.
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But Anna DOES keep thinking they're real before she's reminded that their not.

Like I went and quoted all the bits where people were in danger and Anna almost flew off the handle before managed to calm down. I.E she's still getting used to the sims, and we shouldn't push it.
 
Guile said:
... Why is this the most hotly contested vote in the quest?
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I think quite a few people joined when the quest won that award. So this is the first vote with all the participants voting. It was noted in the first tally this vote had 111 people.

Infact after votes are locked we can run a quick vote to test how many returners there are vs new.
 
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But man, 111 votes.

That's really surprising and a first for me seeing it, i didn't expect that much votes.
 
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