Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

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Gas power winding down next plan:


CI Focus:
Thank you for confirming this nightmare. Fuck, we'll be on Infra-HI focus forever until the population graph plateaus building hydopower, nuclear reactors, and coal mines. How the fuck is stinky clunky coal "easier, and better" than natural gas for power? At least we'll get to keep one measly dice on gas power :|

I'm confused, what ARE we going to do with all the gas we'll get from the extra oil rigs we'll gave to build? It can't all be power and heat, with gas power construction getting reduced and heat pumps slowly replacing gas heating. And Blackstar doesn't say we're selling it all. Is compressed natural gas really viable enough for road transport to be folded into the general price of fuel? I thought that was a somewhat niche tech.

Fuck, this really is a quandry. Fucking dice, fucking SupSov. Guess we need the LCI deputy after all )-: Let's hope Klimenko can set things up for the future well enough so that when he leaves and Mr "Who needs ambition or high technology, drill baby drill fossil fuels forever" takes over it doesn't sow too many seeds of stagnation.

I'm assuming that if we take the HI deputy that gives +2 HI dice it won't be enough to let us build Atomash without a HI focus?
 
Coal is in some ways an even more seductive fossil fuel than oil, if you have good access - and we do. Like sure, we have our rationale for not using coal, and in 2020 it makes perfect sense. But all this stuff about the benefits of gas as the least-harmful fossil fuel, which is still perfectly good for powering the country, in 1970 it's going up against "just pick up another trainload of coal and burn it". The effort starts to look absurd.

If not for this mini-crisis, we could have gotten away with it, but now it's a whole issue. People have opinions now.
 
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[X]Staggered Launches

There is no point rushing gas giant orbiters, we can do them later with better technology and experience from the upcoming round of flybys. Right now it looks like those probes will be sent on aerobraking missions with little if any opportunity to look at at those atmospheres up close first. Plus it means the Americans will probably get Pluto and the Voyager-esque super-far probe prestige.

[X]Vladimir Fedorovich Balakirev
[X]Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev
 
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Coal is in some ways an even more seductive fossil fuel than oil, if you have good access - and we do. Like sure, we have our rationale for not using coal, and in 2020 it makes perfect sense. But all this stuff about the benefits of gas as the least-harmful fossil fuel, which is still perfectly good for powering the country, in 1970 it's going up against "just pick up another trainload of coal and burn it". The effort starts to look absurd.
As opposed to just "hook up another pipeline of gas and burn it"? Coal requires a bunch of solid handling which is always a pain. Plus, gas is gas. Coal is full of ash, sulfur, and other non-fuel stuff. This wreaks havoc on the health of the population in the vicinity (which was a big reason people ever pushed for gas over coal in-universe at all). In principle you can scrub most of that misery out but 1) the tech is probably far from mature in the sixties/seventies and 2) the amount of extra equipment that needs will drive up costs and make it even harder to claim it is 'easier and simpler' than gas power.
 
I'm confused, what ARE we going to do with all the gas we'll get from the extra oil rigs we'll gave to build? It can't all be power and heat, with gas power construction getting reduced and heat pumps slowly replacing gas heating. And Blackstar doesn't say we're selling it all. Is compressed natural gas really viable enough for road transport to be folded into the general price of fuel? I thought that was a somewhat niche tech.
Heating systems for burning in cities with central heating or decentralized for apartment blocks as a good means of low-cost infrastructure for energy transport, some energy production off of increasing power generation, and whatever isn't used or sold off via pipelines gets flared or vented. Also your heat pumps are nowhere near capable enough to replace gas heating, not remotely in the conditions you are in. Their over glorified window AC's that can maybe shift the temperature by 10 degrees, nothing remotely capable enough to keep up with winter weather.

Edit: Though your ability to do two gas power plants is semi contingent on not doing the maximum housing option.
 
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That is very dependent on your definition of a bias problem right now all the major enterprises seems to be hiring all the best lawyers and just are using those to bully everybody because unless you have at least a middle class income you can't get a lawyer and the state won't provide one. This leads to a lot of abuse on the enterprise side as hey you can just abuse all these people from CA and what are they going to do they have no money to hold you responsible.
Furthermore as Notgreat has brought up earlier rural focus is likely to eat more of general labour which is not something we have in abundance unlike Gorbs ideas which hinges on hiring educated workers which we are constantly in the danger zone of going below the bad line of.
How bad are we talking re: general labor impact? I figured general labor going over 40 was inevitable and somewhat desired (otherwise we'd be deliberately keeping wages low for our benefit which is not a good image), would Tatarchuk's schemes be so bad they would be likely to push it above 60 even?

That said you make a good point about it being too hard to get legal defense. Thanks.
 
As opposed to just "hook up another pipeline of gas and burn it"? Coal requires a bunch of solid handling which is always a pain. Plus, gas is gas. Coal is full of ash, sulfur, and other non-fuel stuff. This wreaks havoc on the health of the population in the vicinity (which was a big reason people ever pushed for gas over coal in-universe at all). In principle you can scrub most of that misery out but 1) the tech is probably far from mature in the sixties/seventies and 2) the amount of extra equipment that needs will drive up costs and make it even harder to claim it is 'easier and simpler' than gas power.
Pressurized pipelines are logistically vulnerable and expensive compared to coal stockpiling. In 2020, we've reached a point where the infrastructure has been largely lain, public health is more highly valued, and many powerful people have confirmed their investments in gas. Altogether, it paints a different picture, and yet we still use coal en mass.

In this time, it's little different from all the contemporary arguments about the expense and reliability of solar & wind. Now imagine the propaganda coup if solar and wind installations were attributed mass blackouts and economic crisis. It'd set things back by 20 years or more, and the political arguments would forever terminally include a "fact" of solar and wind being unreliable, even though it's not true. That's where we are with gas.
 
[X]Vladimir Fedorovich Balakirev
[X]Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev
[X]Staggered Launches
Taking the oil guy because oil and also he has at least some high level management experience, which might mean he stays as deputy even when Klim goes, Gorby for civil rights copium, and staggered launches so that we can learn stuff from Jupiter and incorporate that into our outer system probes
 
How bad are we talking re: general labor impact? I figured general labor going over 40 was inevitable and somewhat desired (otherwise we'd be deliberately keeping wages low for our benefit which is not a good image), would Tatarchuk's schemes be so bad they would be likely to push it above 60 even?
I have no hard numbers or general knowledge about how Blackstar would do it but i figure you would at least have a +20 for every dice like an inverse of what happend when we went under and then more expensive because higher labour prices are always worse. With that said this is all very minutie as i suspect that most of the expansions would take like 1 or 2 GL like banking or childcare so it won't be budget breaking it is just not a resource we are swimming in. I also don't think we are ever going to get near 60 as more expensive dice + enterprises likely slimming down massively when they can't afford as much cheap labour means in my mind we won't go over 60 unless we deliberatly sabotage ourselves.
 
So, I might be remembering wrong, but a major part of the push for gas power was under Voznesensky. He was famously numbers-obsessed, but that resulted in useful things like wanted to curb smog in cities because reducing respiratory illnesses would save boatloads of cash on medical costs. Now I'm imagining somebody revisiting his calculations, and determining that the money the government would save by cutting gas power is more than the increased costs it would have to bear from expanding coal power (either for caring for people with lung cancer and shit, or for putting the power station infrastructure far away enough from town that the smog doesn't spread there).

An ugly sausage, but I hope that it was at least something like this that happened (and that they did the math right), and not the energy department unilaterally going "screw the public health impact, coal cheap".

Heating systems for burning in cities with central heating or decentralized for apartment blocks as a good means of low-cost infrastructure for energy transport, some energy production off of increasing power generation, and whatever isn't used or sold off via pipelines gets flared or vented. Also your heat pumps are nowhere near capable enough to replace gas heating, not remotely in the conditions you are in. Their over glorified window AC's that can maybe shift the temperature by 10 degrees, nothing remotely capable enough to keep up with winter weather.
We have so much gas we don't know what to do with it, and those chucklefucks in SupSov still won't let us build CCGP plants to makes use of something that is so plentiful we're just throwing it away otherwise. Those coal mines and canals to enable them don't build themselves either!

Thanks for the reminder about the heat pumps though. Yeah, Russian winter is harsh.

I have no hard numbers or general knowledge about how Blackstar would do it but i figure you would at least have a +20 for every dice like an inverse of what happend when we went under and then more expensive because higher labour prices are always worse. With that said this is all very minutie as i suspect that most of the expansions would take like 1 or 2 GL like banking or childcare so it won't be budget breaking it is just not a resource we are swimming in. I also don't think we are ever going to get near 60 as more expensive dice + enterprises likely slimming down massively when they can't afford as much cheap labour means in my mind we won't go over 60 unless we deliberatly sabotage ourselves.

This turn general labor fell into the bottom bracket (<20) and we only had a general decrease in cost of 10 RpD. I doubt the impact of labor price around the middle bracket (no effects for all other indices, don't see why this one would be different) would be so asymmetrical that just going into the second highest would raise global prices by a whopping 20 RpD.
 
This turn general labor fell into the bottom bracket (<20) and we only had a general decrease in cost of 10 RpD. I doubt the impact of labor price around the middle bracket (no effects for all other indices, don't see why this one would be different) would be so asymmetrical that just going into the second highest would raise global prices by a whopping 20 RpD.
The difference in my mind is that we have a minimum wage and we implemented several measures to keep it falling further so i suspect it would be worse if it rises but then again maybe it will be even more asymetrical and instead it will only mean that certain dice go +30 and other dice are left untouched my point is more it isn't going to be cheap and i expect it will require us to make sacrifices (again) to keep things ticking.
 
This turn general labor fell into the bottom bracket (<20) and we only had a general decrease in cost of 10 RpD. I doubt the impact of labor price around the middle bracket (no effects for all other indices, don't see why this one would be different) would be so asymmetrical that just going into the second highest would raise global prices by a whopping 20 RpD.
Labor prices going up rapidly spikes all construction projects, though your partially insulated through the mass use of prison labor. While I am going to separate the steps into 10 wide brackets instead of 20 wide ones next plan, in the current system going to 40-60 is a universal +20, 60-80 a universal +50. Cheap labor is the largest aspect of construction costs for basically everything not technical, its going to have the largest impact by far.
 
Labor prices going up rapidly spikes all construction projects, though your partially insulated through the mass use of prison labor. While I am going to separate the steps into 10 wide brackets instead of 20 wide ones next plan, in the current system going to 40-60 is a universal +20, 60-80 a universal +50. Cheap labor is the largest aspect of construction costs for basically everything not technical, its going to have the largest impact by far.
OK I stand corrected then 0_0

We can starve things off a little by expanding child care and such, but sooner or later (probably sooner, given we need those widget factories to hit consumer goods targets) we'll have to chose between accepting the big cost increase or hobbling the USSR's development in general.
 
I think that Kamenev for deputy makes a lot of sense, since to go anything but HI-CI focus next plan would take political concessions (and every concession we make to adjust details of a FYP is a concession we cannot make to get a loan), and infra deputy would be a decent bandaid as in we get more infra dice and hopefully better road projects without an infra focus.

Of course, the fact that we axced RBMK's makes our nuclear reactors considerably more expensive. The RBMK design has problems, but it was cheap.

RBMK is cheap if you're not building industry dedicated to churning out reactors by the hundred. If you are, then it's not that much cheaper, since you can afford to build a dedicated pipeline instead of having to scratchbuild every NPP from scratch (since PWR requires unique parts like containment vessels and RBMK-style can go without).
 
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We'll probably ask for an extra 5% budget increase next FYP and spend it just on higher wages, but we really do have to bite that bullet now that it's the 70s.

Hey, at least we've still got prison labor to keep Infra costs down!
 
We'll probably ask for an extra 5% budget increase next FYP and spend it just on higher wages, but we really do have to bite that bullet now that it's the 70s.
Do remember we already are spending 35% of GDP. More accurately, 20+15%, not sure if we can (or should for that matter) go to 40%. I think the easiest way to do this is lower the reinvestment funds by a bit, and go 25+10% . This will be somewhat unpopular within the Ministry but at this point we have a solid hold in it and can afford to I think, and it will encourage the SoEs to slim down too. Our conservative allies will probably be fine with it as well.
 
[X]Alexander Fedorovich Kamenev
[X]Stepan Ivanovich Chistoplyasov
[X]Staggered Launches
[X]Alexey Ivanovich Krylov
[X]Nikolay Fedorovich Tatarchuk

The more Infra dice the more dice for finally getting people clean water, more Roads and subways, but also the more dice to use for autodice on housing and dams
Then like others have said the countryside is a miserable place to live
this is why people are moving into the cities because there's no water or roads or services
we need a more holistic view of the relationship between the metro and the countryside
insert manifesto quote about abolishing the division between town and country
 
[x]Full Surveys

We didn't do the moon landing, so let's go big on probes.

[x]Alexander Fedorovich Kamenev

We desperately need all the Infra Dice we can get our hands on, and he seems decent.

[x]Nikolay Fedorovich Tatarchuk

Closing the services gap and making "universal" access *actually* universal instead of just in Tier 1/2 cities is a pretty important thing to have covered.
 
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