[X] Plan Redline Machinery
[X] Plan Energetic Realignment (Euro Edition)
[X] Plan Energetic Realignment (Euro Edition)
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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Didn't specify the project you are focusing on btw. Also, have you considered doing the euro?
I considered it and it's a very useful project, but it's also one that I think is deeply political and I'd really prefer to have some backing in that area before attempting it. I was planning on doing it next turn.
(Also thanks, fixed)
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Hmm, I'll be honest, I think that []Expand Town Classification Codes is much more of a political risk than getting on the Euro bandwagon since its essentially a power grab by Balakirev and rural interests, undermining the more urban based party base.
I think its a decent choice in that it will probably help our odds during the elections next turn (am not sure if we do it then it will apply immediately), especially if we do lean into []Development of Population Services(Stage 1/3) and agitate for River Reversal, but I will say its riskier than just going on the Euro bandwagon to present a positive image to Semyonov.
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[X] Plan Computers and Electricity
That's a good plan that hit most of my wishes
That's a good plan that hit most of my wishes
Maybe?
But to be clear I do think Semyonov is the most powerful player right now. I don't think that Balakirev is that out of touch. But I do think he'll last less time than he would had his partnership with Romanov continued (even recognizing that Romanov would have probably tried to become GenSec at some point).
That's actually a good point.
Also, taking actions to align with the military and the rurals while staying studiously neutral with the big SupSov factions could be a strong play.
Dang, I wish we'd kept Glushko. With him around I'd have no reservations about throwing in with the military as whatever the military wanted to do would get twisted around into something that would serve his space nerd dreams (and thus had some actual utility, unlike the pie in the sky weapons systems the Americans are chasing).
Still, I am pretty sure our people could still keep the military from wasting too much money. Our current top man was one of Glushko's heirs.
I heard you like megaprojects... Have you heard of a little thing called STAR WARS? By adopting nuclear second stages we can radically increase the lifing capacity of the RLA system, violating the very sky with our big phallic rockets while their exhaust violates the ecology below.
Our military cosmonauts will be able to see the Rodina herself glow with patriotic pride beneath them as they build their giant SPACE LASERS*. So many giant SPACE LASERRRRRS that the Americans will be bankrupting themselves trying to catch up, what with their less efficient rockets. A megaproject that can win us the Cold War, forever! Communism will claim the globe (as soon as we deal with our own managers, that is), everyone lives happily ever after, and the hightened cancer rates of Kazakh sheep herders will barely noticeable.
*Health disclaimer: do not shine the giant space laser in your eye, or in the eyes of your friends. Do not use the giant space laser to play laser tag with your cat. Giant space lasers are also ineffective against ground targets, but could be used against American satellites, if we wanted to terrify the Americans into starting WW3 by burning out all of their ineffective orbital weapons with our own ineffective orbital weapons.
Actually not a bad idea...
Though I expect that Podgorny will have ideas that are a bit too smart for all of them to die in the storm of the oil crisis. Maybe I am over estimating Podgorny, but OTL Podgorny was good at Soviet politics, and TTL's Podgorny has consistently out-done our PoV character's expectations. If any politician knew that for real reform to happen, he'd have to start with reforms that can't quickly be undermined, it would be him.
I wonder if we might use this against Semyonov though? Align with him, help him to purge the enterprise managers a bit (something we REALLY need to do, though ideally we'd want to do that in small doses regularly), then Bala or his successor blames Semyonov's radicalism in shrinking the ministry for the oil crisis, and we regain our rightful place as near absolute rulers of the economic bureaucracy (only now we have to work with trade unions instead of tiptoe around powerful managers, but I would certainly prefer that).
Plus, aligning with Semyonov is probably our best chance to actually have the ministry work for the power of ordinary workers.
Even a pro-worker minister would probably be reluctant to make things too much better for the unions since the ministry would have less power to do good if it gives up power to the unions.
Balakirev's neophyte ways might be our only chance to try for such a radical pro-worker push.
As I was saying to Ultrackius, I think aligning with Semyonov is kind of a special opportunity, so I am definitely extremely tempted.
An alignment with Semyonov is also a politically dangerous mystery box that could just be pure pain for poor Balakirev.
It feels kinda dirty to push for something that is likely going to be bad for Balakirev personally of course... Like, he's just an honest nerd trying to make the world better in his own way. His petrochemical Voz-brainedness makes him a pretty good guy for keeping the economy ticking through the oil crisis even. Plus, where Klim was just neutral to the rurals, Balakirev actually has... Good ideas for how to lift up the rural population. So it isn't even like using Balakirev as a disposable minister is necessarily a good call.
On the other hand, we in the threadviet generally tend to vote for plans that are good for our power. But we have had a few cases where the power of the minister and the ministry have actually been bad for the goals we've been trying to use that power to reach. Like Voz's empire of corruption.
Working with the Trade Unionist GenSec (who I think has a short-ish political life now anyway) could make the lives of the ordinary workers of the Soviet Union ALOT better.
And while I don't doubt that Semyonov would sacrifice Balakirev if he felt he needed to in order to preserve his own political career, Semyonov has been doing a pretty good job as GenSec, and if sending Bala off to a comfy retirement is the price for keeping a good GenSec in place and getting needed reform done... That's not a terrible trade.
Also, just because Sem absolutely would knife Bala if he needed to, if Bala shows initiative in supporting ideas Sem likes and if Blackstar interprets our keenness (IF the threadviet were keen for that) for slimming the ministry as Bala actually agreeing at least a little with Sem that the enterprise managers need to be cut down and the Trade Unions raised up, Semyonov and Balakirev might even (le gasp!) get on!
Though given Bala's attraction to technocratic politics, I think that if we align with Semyonov, probably the in-character reason would be that Balakirev decides that Semyonov is too powerful to not find a compromise with.
Oh? Did you actually find a reference for people thinking the river reversal would warm the planet? (Or heck, references that applied decently good climate modelling to the problem at all, even if they came to the opposite conclusion.) If so, share!
Are you sure we gotta expand the mad cow industry?
Like, we have WoQM telling us that our agricultural efforts are a net loss overall. Would really like if we could switch to a harm-minimization strategy on our ag options now.
Regards,
fasquardon
Meat is the one thing that does turn an actual profit in Agriculture so it's an attempt to salvage a little bit of value, and the current phase is for chickens instead of beef anyways.
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[X] Plan Nerd Power
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- The great frozen north
Well, at least Klimenko lasted a year longer than The Voz. Broke that curse at least.
Balakirev's stats as minister are better than expected! He'll be good for a while, and I expect working around his Captain Planet Villain tendencies will be fun. Aside from his poor political dice, the one thing I worry about is how the Civilian Airports program has been re-worded combined with the cancellation of the Tupolev plant expansion. I hope he doesn't screw over modern airliner development in favor of giving every podunk town it's own light landing strip.
I'm not good with politics and I've only skimmed the discussion, but two things stand out: First: While I understand hedging our bets with an independent power base in the technocrats is a workable idea, they scare me. Under Voznesensky the technocrats were a gaggle of corrupt bastards and Balakirev is explicitly compared to The Voz! I do not want another 7 years of clogging the ministry with "correct personnel" again.
Also, do we REALLY need to push for the Euro ourselves? Its adoption seems to be well on track for 1975 after all the shoving Klimenko gave, is the chance of it failing to go through really worth a 10% critfail chance?
One last curiosity: We know that letting oil prices go below 20 is bad (uselessly selling to the west). What happens if Petrochemicals or Petroleum Gas go below 20?
Balakirev's stats as minister are better than expected! He'll be good for a while, and I expect working around his Captain Planet Villain tendencies will be fun. Aside from his poor political dice, the one thing I worry about is how the Civilian Airports program has been re-worded combined with the cancellation of the Tupolev plant expansion. I hope he doesn't screw over modern airliner development in favor of giving every podunk town it's own light landing strip.
I'm not good with politics and I've only skimmed the discussion, but two things stand out: First: While I understand hedging our bets with an independent power base in the technocrats is a workable idea, they scare me. Under Voznesensky the technocrats were a gaggle of corrupt bastards and Balakirev is explicitly compared to The Voz! I do not want another 7 years of clogging the ministry with "correct personnel" again.
Also, do we REALLY need to push for the Euro ourselves? Its adoption seems to be well on track for 1975 after all the shoving Klimenko gave, is the chance of it failing to go through really worth a 10% critfail chance?
I don't follow, I figured as Socialists we want to empower trade unions at the expense of enterprises? Though I'm still inclined against Seymonov for other reasons.
One last curiosity: We know that letting oil prices go below 20 is bad (uselessly selling to the west). What happens if Petrochemicals or Petroleum Gas go below 20?
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We could actually have not made Voz as corrupt as he was. We just chose to corruptmaxx at every turn essentially by prioritizing pork projects and doing bureau options to empower cronys and remove his political opponents.
Like, its not an inherently poisonous position to take, Malenkov wasn't nearly as bad as Voz and was also a technocrat.
As for the Euro, well, having the backing of the Ministry will only make things go quicker, and supporting it is throwing a bone to Semyonov so he starts off with a more favorable disposition of us. Having the Euro sorted out before the oil crisis would be a huge boon imo, it gives us much more bargaining power and helps control inflation.
Petrochemicals going below 20 will massively boost economic growth, its literally transforming our oil into economically useful products. Gas I am not sure about tbh.
Gas probably means uselessly flaring extra gas. We don't have the big pipelines to export it to even most of CMEA let alone big LNG tankers to export it further afield.
Ah yes, missed that it was chickens. OK, fair enough.
(Though I am still not sure meat is really profitable - it takes our ridiculous over-production of grain and turns it into far more valuable meat, but if we actually spent to political capital to bring grain production into balance, would meat still be profitable with more expensive feed? Especially if we, you know, accurately accounted for water useage, which we absolutely don't.)
Always good to remember how much a part of the problem the threadviet itself is.
We've been running things for so long that our shortcommings have majorly defined the failures the planning system has had.
I know you've been beating this drum alot, I just want to say I ENTIRELY agree.
Backing the Euro is super important for Bala IMO. It is a friendly signal to Semyonov while being actually useful and technocratic enough to pair well with any other political choices we make.
Any plan without it should be thrown out.
Also, I think we should do CMEA Good Prioritization. Making it easier to trade with our allies would further signal that we are someone Sem can work with, while also being hugely important for making the Euro actually functional.
Which are?
I mean... I don't think it is workable at all. If Balakirev had better political chops, sure. But I think that him trying to form an independent political base in the SupSov is the surest way to political suicide. And not even a political suicide that had useful side effects.
Now, him building political support within the ministry and within other parts of the bureaucracy (like helping the military play with Star Wars) I think IS a path for him to build an independent political base. We don't have to play like Voz with every minister.
Regards,
fasquardon
HanEmpire
Delicious
It's profitable in that we are importing massive amounts of meat from the United States to make up for our domestic meat deficit. Improving the trade balance will be a net profit for the state, even if the meat enterprises themselves don't make any profit.
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The leading plan (Nerd Power) not having Assess the Supreme Soviet is a mistake imo.
I feel like people are overestimating the degree to which Balakirev lacks political skills? Yeah he doesn't have much experience, but if he was actually incompetent at it or anything I doubt he would have made it long as the deputy of the ministry that runs the entire economy of the USSR. And with Klim going to leave the chair in the next few years regardless after putting a significant amount of effort into helping build Balakirev up, plus what Blackstar has told us about Balakirev's ambitions, this is probably him just having to deal with politics at this scale a year or two ahead of when he planned on it rather than him being thrown into the deep end without any prep. Nothing I think Balakirev can't overcome if he focuses a more of his time into it.
Some interspered messages not about his ambitions were removed
Definitely IMO, we really want that read on how the SupSov winds up at the end of this realignment.
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Also, we need to get the Better Meat Pokemon Badge from the US. It's all the more vital now that water has been cancelled.
[X] Plan Energetic Realignment (Euro Edition)
[X] Plan Nerd Powered Eurovision, Clearsighted Edition
[X] Plan Nerd Powered Eurovision, Clearsighted Edition
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Well, what would we or Balakirev do differently if we got good information?
IMO actually knowing what's going on doesn't help us very much since for now we would want to keep our heads down whatever is actually going on in the SupSov.
But with a failure, ambitious Balakirev would self-destruct.
Regards,
fasquardon
We'd actually have an idea of what the current clique lines are in the SupSov?
Despite Balakirev not having a party seat himself, with control over the economy of the entire Soviet Union the Ministry is such an inherently political body I don't think we can afford to deliberately stay ignorant of how the factions stand, and that inherent political nature isn't something we're going to be able to just shed and leave behind us.
You've brought up the idea of trying to make Balakirev a politically neutral actor a few times now, but he's just sat down in the hot seat and is now arguably the second most powerful person in the entire Soviet Union. Balakirev isn't going to get a choice to be apolitical, he's too much of a boon for anyone who gets him on-side, and too much of a threat to those who don't. If we don't do some serious politicking this turn (whether that's trying to hitch Balakirev to someone else's faction or trying to build up his own), then IMO the more likely outcome is not a neutral Balakirev separate from the political fighting in the SupSov, but a Balakirev who winds up with their own de facto faction except that it's only the few people who wandered into his orbit.
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OK I concede on the bureucracy options. But asking the thread to recognize that doing Pork Projects labeled as politically beneficial was nota good idea is asking us to be capable of 3D chess.
So, a way to show Semyonov we can be reasoned with, without outright jumping into his political camp. I like it. Tentatively, I cast my vote.
[] Plan Nerd Powered Eurovision
Takes care of that, while still doing a bunch of focuses which I want.
EDIT: NEVER MIND! I forgot the shipyards. I want them at least started this turn, no doubt they have a big spool-up time and won't help our CapGood target if we start them on the last turn.
True. We don't have those. YET. We'll roll out those shipyards soon enough!
The worries about him being controlling of us that others have cited, mostly.
On another note, since the Seymonov Apology Form was threadmarked might as well come clean:
[J]I arrogantly assumed I knew more of foreign affairs
-[J]Write in: I was wrong about the logistics of supplying partisans in every possible way
[J]I refused to consider that territories not on the same continent could be considered an inalienable part of the country
[J]I did not want to look "Weak" or "unreliable" before others
[J]I really wanted to kill some Frenchmen
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[X] Plan Energetic Realignment (Euro Edition)
[X]Plan A Computer Revolution + Profit
[X] Plan Redline Machinery
Mostly for the shipyards and the sewers. I think we're falling way behind on making the switch over to modern container ships, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're still using a bunch of cargo ships from the 1930s that have just never been decommissioned.
Although now I'm wondering if we can finish atommash and do something ̶i̶n̶s̶a̶n̶e̶ bold with it, like build a fleet of massive, nuclear-powered cargo ships.
[X]Plan A Computer Revolution + Profit
[X] Plan Redline Machinery
Mostly for the shipyards and the sewers. I think we're falling way behind on making the switch over to modern container ships, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're still using a bunch of cargo ships from the 1930s that have just never been decommissioned.
Although now I'm wondering if we can finish atommash and do something ̶i̶n̶s̶a̶n̶e̶ bold with it, like build a fleet of massive, nuclear-powered cargo ships.
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