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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
We still have it, though? We never sacrificed it, sold it, or otherwise lost it.

Yeah. ;) That's a big reason I'm excited about the future Gate to Bloodraven. We can literally have Lya waltz over to him whenever she pleases to learn Druid spells.
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Couch :D

One of the best typos in the game. It is still missed.
 
I'm fine with the dragon idea.

It come down to three reasons basically.

1. I want to re introduce metallic dragons into the world so it catches on fire less often

2. Aemon is a super cool dude. Not only do I trust him to have that kind of power and not betray us. I trust him to have that kind of power and use it to better the world.

3. The wall is criminally underdefended. One ice dragon could kill everyone and everything there without them putting up much resistance. We have been throwing Band-Aids at them, but we need to put some real power on the wall. You don't get much stronger than dragon.
 
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It has come to the point where I will put every effort to fighting against the dragon idea. I have well and truly grown to hate it overall. @LonelyWolf999, this is one of those things that is just not fun to talk about because we have had so many exhausting arguments over it.
 
Duesal said:
It has come to the point where I will put every effort to fighting against the dragon idea. I have well and truly grown to hate it overall. @LonelyWolf999, this is one of those things that is just not fun to talk about because we have had so many exhausting arguments over it.
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But why? Look, I get I wasn't around for whatever went down, and I'm sure it was incredibly obnoxious, but I just want to present Aemon with the option, as well as all the other ideas that have been proposed. That's all. Is this really so objectionable?
 
I must have missed those. Mostly I remember people telling tarrangar he sucks at arguing.

I remember people saying turning him into a dragon is dumb because they want that to be a Viserys only thing.

I remember people talking about how metallic dragons are terrible and will only cause problems for us. (Which I am putting in the same box as "Yrael is stupid evil because he's angel" until they come up with a better argument)

As far as I know nobody has addressed putting super weapons. Magical behemoths, or a full adventurer party on the wall 24/7. Which is a shame because thats my largest concern. Did we even send that treeant to the wall?
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
But why? Look, I get I wasn't around for whatever went down, and I'm sure it was incredibly obnoxious, but I just want to present Aemon with the option, as well as all the other ideas that have been proposed. That's all. Is this really so objectionable?
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There's also the fact that a lot of us hate the idea in general. Becoming a dragon should not be that easy. Viserys went through a specialized and ridiculously rare 10 level PrC to achieve this, and on the other hand we have people wanting Aemon to suddenly become a dragon through reincarnation? Yeah. Very much against it.
 
zxzx24 said:
I must have missed those. Mostly I remember people telling tarrangar he sucks at arguing.

I remember people saying turning him into a dragon is dumb because they want that to be a Viserys only thing.

I remember people talking about how metallic dragons are terrible and will only cause problems for us. (Which I am putting in the same box as "Yrael is stupid evil because he's angel" until they come up with a better argument)

As far as I know nobody has addressed putting super weapons. Magical behemoths, or a full adventurer party on the wall 24/7. Which is a shame because thats my largest concern. Did we even send that treeant to the wall?
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Yes, thank you. I get that people just want to stop arguing about it, and that's exactly what aim proposing. Just giving the decision to Aemon.
 
Duesal said:
There's also the fact that a lot of us hate the idea in general. Becoming a dragon should not be that easy. Viserys went through a specialized and ridiculously rare 10 level PrC to achieve this, and on the other hand we have people wanting Aemon to suddenly become a dragon through reincarnation? Yeah. Very much against it.
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I'm sure DP will add some hoops to jump through, and Aemon won't just pop out as a young adult dragon. Let's just explore the option in a bit more depth before we dismiss it, please?
 
DP has already said that it is possible.

We don't want to vote for it.
Your statement is basically: "I'm not trying to restart arguments over this, but I'm trying to restart arguments over this."

It's acknowledged. It has been responded to. Repeatedly. So many fucking times. We're sick of it.

I mean, thanks for advertising the option again, because now it seems like we're going to have to polish off the various reasons we're so vehement about it just to make sure people are well-informed by the point the time to vote for it comes around why there seems to have just suddenly materialized out of nowhere (how did that happen??? People don't like this thing that is now being argued about??? Since when?! Since it was first brought up) this great big pushback against the idea.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
But why? Look, I get I wasn't around for whatever went down, and I'm sure it was incredibly obnoxious, but I just want to present Aemon with the option, as well as all the other ideas that have been proposed. That's all. Is this really so objectionable?
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The topic is a big black hole in my mind. I just like to pretend it doesn't exist. If this topic is being discussed, private message me when it's been put back to bed/decided on/whatever as long as I don't have to fucking read about it again, plz?
*Deciding to unwatch the thread for a day or two, joyus in his wisdom @BeepSmile wanders off to blissful ignorance in the face of the possibility of reading yet even more about the topic that he is just sick to the teeth of.*

Frankly, I think I came back a bit too early from my cool-off. :confused: Chiao you sexy threadgowers!
 
The sheer vehemence against the idea is slightly baffling.

Also slightly amusing. So I should really stop. I'm done.

Anywho.

If the vampire lady need to go shopping for an undead boy toy. Might we send her to the dothraki? They have some good ones apparently. Make them share.
 
I literally cannot engage with this topic anymore either. If it's genuinely back on the table again, after I thought the horse had been beaten into its constituent friggin' particles, I'm out. Just gone. I'll be back when the subject is over. I've already proven I get inordinately frustrated when it seems like someone can just repeatedly holler about something (like nerfing a PrC) and get their way because the opposition grows tired of defending their position.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
But why? Look, I get I wasn't around for whatever went down, and I'm sure it was incredibly obnoxious, but I just want to present Aemon with the option, as well as all the other ideas that have been proposed. That's all. Is this really so objectionable?
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It's a cheap way to become the apex predator of the cosmos. If all it takes to become a True Dragon is some draconic ancestry and high level magic, the Planes would be absolutely infested by the things.

I've used longer arguments, and more thorough ones, but this is the gist of it. I won't support it, and will in fact argue against it tirelessly.
 
Re:Aemon

Dragon: No, it's ridiculous and this is one of the very few times I'd like to avoid the issue and ignore word of DP, years we spent becoming a Dragon, years of not being a Metamagic Sorcerer or anything else that would have made more sense than spending 10 levels to replicate the effects of a Wish, of which we have had several at our disposal.

Leaving the Wall: No, he swore an oath and I don't care for loopholes, this would disgust me and I hope Viserys and Aemon too.

He DID sign shit.

Reincarnation/Youthification: I'd prefer him to remain himself so I would hold out for Cyclical but I'm on board with making his life better and generally more capable in his duties.


Re:The eventual Lanna vote

Spells: Don't forget she is a godsdamned Blue Mage, don't cast anything where she can see.

Talking: If we go the direct speaking path Create Mindscape will allow you to use Socials at leisure, interference by outsiders and violence between us are not options, she at a minimum has to listen and will probably talk. Objectively superior to Message in every way.
 
Would getting a regular metallic dragon work?

Or just sending like. A super Treant? Or death metal elemental to the wall be acceptable?
 
zxzx24 said:
Or just sending like. A super Treant? Or death metal elemental to the wall be acceptable?
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I've been planning on making some variation of an Obsidian Golem and sending it to the Wall for a while now. Treants would also be good. Now that we've got teachers for the Scholarum taken care of, the Wall is the next priority.
 
Deliste said:
Re:Aemon

Dragon: No, it's ridiculous and this is one of the very few times I'd like to avoid the issue and ignore word of DP, years we spent becoming a Dragon, years of not being a Metamagic Sorcerer or anything else that would have made more sense than spending 10 levels to replicate the effects of a Wish, of which we have had several at our disposal.

Leaving the Wall: No, he swore an oath and I don't care for loopholes, this would disgust me and I hope Viserys and Aemon too.

He DID sign shit.

Reincarnation/Youthification: I'd prefer him to remain himself so I would hold out for Cyclical but I'm on board with making his life better and generally more capable in his duties.


Re:The eventual Lanna vote

Spells: Don't forget she is a godsdamned Blue Mage, don't cast anything where she can see.

Talking: If we go the direct speaking path Create Mindscape will allow you to use Socials at leisure, interference by outsiders and violence between us are not options, she at a minimum has to listen and will probably talk. Objectively
superior to Message in every way.
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Oaths without agreeable ending terms are unconscionable. People agree to serve at the Wall over death because they don't want to die, not because they want to live forever holding the line against Oblivion. If every person who swore the NW Oath was instead made into an immortal sentinel, and they weren't turned into beings of Pure Law alongside it as a package deal, the institution plain wouldn't exist.

I find it fine for a man who has served a literal life time to hang up the coat after so long in service. He would have fulfilled the oath to the word. If it doesn't anger the Gods, it shouldn't anger us.
 
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zxzx24 said:
Would getting a regular metallic dragon work?

Or just sending like. A super Treant? Or death metal elemental to the wall be acceptable?
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I think that improving defences on the Wall will certainly be a high priority once we can do it more openly.

I don't want metallic dragons because with them will come Bahamut, and fuck that guy.

But something like always having a full legion at the wall is certainly a move I would support.
 
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