Well you know, there's this set of thirty silver items that keep on finding their way out into the world and are mighty hard to track...

I think Viserys reaction to the Denarian would be desire, not for the Fallen Angels to serve him, but for having the Coins to feed to Yss/the old gods, he has no reason to think that just because a random god has said they are indestructible, mean that other gods can't feast on them if he sacrifices them.
Actually, the coins are prisons. According to WOJ, they confine the 30's influence to Earth, and destroying them is a BAD idea.
That's only if you destroy them wrong, as you said they are prisons, that mean the Fallen Angels are inside them, and that mean if you sacrifice them the right way, Yss or the old gods can eat them, provided it don't turn out the White god can make a prison they can't destroy.
To be fair to you and @Goldfish on this, something to note is that Viserys doesn't have access to any of his divine vending machines. It's one of the several limiting factors present in the series, as if they could connect it would be trivial for him to get home.
That just mean he has to put them in storage until he finds a way home, he will be looking for one, and as he level up the chance he will find a way will increase.
 
I think Viserys reaction to the Denarian would be desire, not for the Fallen Angels to serve him, but for having the Coins to feed to Yss/the old gods, he has no reason to think that just because a random god has said they are indestructible, mean that other gods can't feast on them if he sacrifices them.

That's only if you destroy them wrong, as you said they are prisons, that mean the Fallen Angels are inside them, and that mean if you sacrifice them the right way, Yss or the old gods can eat them, provided it don't turn out the White god can make a prison they can't destroy.

That just mean he has to put them in storage until he finds a way home, he will be looking for one, and as he level up the chance he will find a way will increase.
Angels, at least the ones put in the coins, are really badass okay? Anduriel was literally the spymaster of hell. I really doubt that Yss or the old God's have nearly enough metaphysical weight or power to consume one, especially since they are confined to a planet when angels are not when not imprisoned.

And even if it did work, sacrificing a being who has existed since the Beginning seems like a terrible idea, given how Dresden stuff is balanced against itself.
 
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I really doubt that Yss or the old God's have nearly enough metaphysical weight or power to consume one,
I'm not nearly so sure of that. It's entirely possible at least Yss could eat one of the coins, given his nature. The much more interesting question is if Viserys gets one of those shiny nickles and tries to take it out of that reality, would their boss express his displeasure immediately, or wait until an... opportune moment?
 
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Perfectly fine with us.


@everyone, did we ever figure out how to cheat up some natural daylight to grow plants in a cavern?

I think there is a daylight sphere in Stronghold Builder's Guide that is fairly explicit in functioning as natural daylight, overpriced as everything is in that book but if DP rules against the obvious solutions that could be our fallback.

Edit:

Bright Luminary:
This large (4-foot-wide) steel half-orb sheds daylight in a 60-foot radius around itself.
The creator of the orb can choose to include a shutter that will block the light when closed.
Caster Level: 3rd;
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, daylight; Market Price: 6,000 gp.

And also the Lair Wards (at a higher price) which I believe you are already looking at from my previous reference found by Duesal.
 
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I'm not nearly so sure of that. It's entirely possible at least Yss could eat one of the coins, given his nature. The much more interesting question is if Viserys gets one of those shiny nickles and tries to take it out of that reality, would their boss express his displeasure immediately, or wait until an... opportune moment?
Maybe. I guess I'm inclined to say that one of the 30, free to act, could certainly destroy a planet, since Uriel can take out galaxies. Given that, this seems an extreme case of trying to consume an energy field larger than your head.

It also depends on whether angels have true Immortality or not. For that matter, even if it did work, the power Yss got might still have to abide by the rules of the DF, and be extremely constrained.

Edit: as for the boss, I dunno. Fallen are really, really good at manipulation, and the Morningstar likely the best of them at it. Or he could just smite us. Frankly, just touching a coin is an unacceptable risk, for me.
 
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And even if it did work, sacrificing a being who has existed since the beginning seems like a terrible idea, given how Dresden stuff is balanced against itself.

And this is one of the major metaphysical points involved here for why, although some things may make him hella mad, Viserys will be willing to back down on several things despite how much they might rankle. Once, of course, he actually knows the metaphysics. This does not include the Laws of Wizardry, but does cover some other things he'd see as injustices.

At the end of the day, the metaphysical and real consequences of murdering Powers (which requires special circumstances to begin with, but that's beside the point) worth that name stand to be truly terrifying. I mean, you'll note for the example given ala Mab on horsepower that it's directly stated that the winner doesn't so much win as survive, and that her death would do utterly awful things to Earth and everyone on it.

How this interacts with divinities from Planetos like the OGs and Yss? That's complicated. On the one hand, they're Gods. Full stop, no negotiation on this point. The OGs don't even need worship to keep going, or so we've been told, which puts them in a ballpark on one level of D&D Overdeities. Considering general evolution and time passed, Yss is probably an intermediate deity under the Divine Rank mechanic, but those are just numbers and don't scan that well where DF things are involved.

Now, assuming for a moment that killing the Denarians outright wouldn't cause horrible things to occur, I think a restored OGs might have the ability to do so, but only one at a time. Yss might actually have a better chance, because a big piece of his Nature is built around power for power. He's not so much destroying as reallocating, under that metric, which only (hah) puts him in a position of being able to create circumstances akin to Halloween on demand.

Both still lose hard in a contest with the upper end of Greater Gods, and it's not even a contest for the WG for obvious reasons. But within their specific domains and functions, they'd hold primacy in power over most beings, simply due to how integral those things are to their nature. Basically, it doesn't matter how metaphysically powerful or immortal you might be when a specific part of another being's Nature is allowing for the reallocation of Power and they've set up where you're standing to be an area that's possible when a knife goes through your heart.

Now the story I'm wanting to tell here isn't one I plan on involving deities in, there's a reason I've locked the OGs behind the Outer Gates and Yss doesn't have any presence to 'lock on' to like they do. So the above is mostly irrelevant. Still, some of it may come up, if only as our intrepid protagonist starts to conceptualise how the universe actually works.

Don't forget the telepathy from Turn Coat. To expand, a traitor drops a mordite elemental into a council meeting. It is a being from Outside whose touch is death to anything. It kills a wizard. Then the Merlin creates a telepathic link to everyone in the room simultaneously, slows down time within the link, and gives everyone individual instructions to contain the thing, or in Dresden's case to pursue the traitor. All without any time seeming to have elapsed.

Something to note here is that Lash had trouble doing this for just a single person, and they were a rather formidable echo of one of the Denarians. The top tier players of the White Council are capable of some scary shit. Again, there's OCPness involved on both sides of the scale in any conflict, but then again...

Viserys is a dragon. The question of if he is a Dragon or just a dragon is one that no one would want to test unless absolutely necessary - and they can't exactly check for sure whilst he's wearing his Crown. Ferrovax is no goddamn joke. Involving himself in the affairs of mortals makes the balance of probability edge towards certain results, sure, but it's not a guarantee. There are many things that walk like men, talk like men, and yet are very clearly not like men when you dig down a layer or two.

Where Viserys is concerned, it's not so much what those layers hide, it's what might be under them. Unless he directly starts shit (unlikely in but a few cases) there's not going to be many people desiring to see what's beneath the mask. For those who've read Cold Days, recall why Halloween night is one of masks.
 
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The Laws are in place because they worked for most of human history. Then human population expanded faster than the Master-Apprentice system used by wizards could keep up leading to a shortage of teachers and a rise in unwitting Lawbreakers. And, frankly, in most cases execution is likely the right move.

I think that, given the metaphysics and demographics, Viserys would agree with the necessity of the laws themselves, and start coming up with ideas to train more wizards more quickly.
 
I think that, given the metaphysics and demographics, Viserys would agree with the necessity of the laws themselves, and start coming up with ideas to train more wizards more quickly.
1. They are murdering children.
2. Those children didn't sign shit.
3. They are murdering children.

It's necessity or lack thereof isn't the issue, the issue is that it would push basically all of Viserys personal freakout buttons that aren't related to specifically his loved ones.
 
At the end of the day, the metaphysical and real consequences of murdering Powers (which requires special circumstances to begin with, but that's beside the point) worth that name stand to be truly terrifying. I mean, you'll note for the example given ala Mab on horsepower that it's directly stated that the winner doesn't so much win as survive, and that her death would do utterly awful things to Earth and everyone on it.
I am strongly in favor of altering reality first, deal with the consequences afterwatds.

And Viserys "I write my own exeptions in the First Pact" Targaryen hasn't been particularly careful with universal laws either.
 
Vote closed.

Vote Tally : A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover | Page 9211 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 230274-230361]
##### NetTally 1.9.10

[X] Final Touches
-[X] Negotiate further
--[X] Propose an exchange of lore
---[X] Everything you can safely give them on Prime Material (culture, history, nobility & royalty, geography, religion, nature, etc) in exchange for an equal value of planar lore from each of them, with special focus on lore of their own respective peoples
-[X] Afterwards, proceed with the signing of the Accords.
-[X] Relath Level Up
--[X] +1 Level Sorcerer
---[X] Cantrip: Message
---[X] Level 3 Spell: Call of the Void
---[X] Skillpoints: +5 Spellcraft
-[X] Hermetia Level Up
--[X] Class: +1 Beguiler (total level 6: Expert 1/Beguiler 5)
--[X] Feat: Silent Spell (bonus feat from class), Mastery of Dreams
--[X] Skills (8 points): +1 Sense Motive, +2 Sleight of Hand, +1 Spellcraft, +4 Intimidate
No. of Votes: 7
Duesal
das_slash
Goldfish
LonelyWolf999
Takesis
TalonofAnathrax
TripleG316

Total No. of Voters: 7
 
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I am strongly in favor of altering reality first, deal with the consequences afterwatds.

And Viserys "I write my own exeptions in the First Pact" Targaryen hasn't been particularly careful with universal laws either.
Actually that exception is totally legal and reality says so.

And the consequences are likely to be more than we can deal with. Frankly, I would expect the Knights to interfere before we could even try such a sacrifice.
 
Viserys is a dragon. The question of if he is a Dragon or just a dragon is one that no one would want to test unless absolutely necessary

This is the crux for me, if Viserys isn't a Dragon in Dresden terms then he has waaay more power than anyone equally unfettered.

The shit Dresden gets away with by being mortal and not in the WC inner circle will be Viserys' MO but steroidal and just about everything that has time to figure it out at least has a healthy respect for Dresden.

Viserys won't roam through cleaning house without effort but there's really no answer to him without risking yourself and most of what you care for, nobody on his level has "nothing to lose" and he has no metaphysical opposition so why in the world would they fuck with him?

Seems like that'd mean the ball is in his court nearly always and planning is his jam. An "enemy" you can't afford to all in is the most terrifying thing in the world.
 
This is the crux for me, if Viserys isn't a Dragon in Dresden terms then he has waaay more power than anyone equally unfettered.

The shit Dresden gets away with by being mortal and not in the WC inner circle will be Viserys' MO but steroidal and just about everything that has time to figure it out at least has a healthy respect for Dresden.

Viserys won't roam through cleaning house without effort but there's really no answer to him without risking yourself and most of what you care for, nobody on his level has "nothing to lose" and he has no metaphysical opposition so why in the world would they fuck with him?

Seems like that'd mean the ball is in his court nearly always and planning is his jam. An "enemy" you can't afford to all in is the most terrifying thing in the world.
The thing is, since Viserys is not a signatory of the Accords, he also isn't protected by them. Neutral ground still applies, but there is no diplomatic framework to fall back on, here.should be interesting!
 
Not bad. Sounds a lot like Helloween.

While I fully agree with the rest of your list, I feel the need to contest Sabaton. Ever since they had mainstream success, their albums became pretty bland and same-ish. Can't honestly recommend anything since Heroes.

If you want something silly, I would suggest Powerwolf, which is what christian metal would sound like if Hellsing Abridged was an accurate depiction of christian faiths.

Two other bands I can recommend are "Die Apokalyptischen Reiter" and "Raubtier". Though the first sing in German and the latter in Swedish. Also both a good deal harder then most others on the list.

Edit: I can also recommend Turisas, which is good old viking metal.
Vulgaris Magistralis!
 
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The thing is, since Viserys is not a signatory of the Accords, he also isn't protected by them. Neutral ground still applies, but there is no diplomatic framework to fall back on, here.should be interesting!

The Accords protect holdings, allies and interests more than powerful individuals, Viserys doesn't have anything to target, nothing to protect but himself.
 
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Angels, at least the ones put in the coins, are really badass okay? Anduriel was literally the spymaster of hell. I really doubt that Yss or the old God's have nearly enough metaphysical weight or power to consume one, especially since they are confined to a planet when angels are not when not imprisoned.

And even if it did work, sacrificing a being who has existed since the Beginning seems like a terrible idea, given how Dresden stuff is balanced against itself.
Yss and the old gods are from Outside, why would they care about the balance of the Dresden verse? And while it's not sure Yss has enough juice yet, the old gods are a major Pantheon, they probably have enough juice.

I wasn't assuming Viserys would sacrifice them in the Dresden Verse, I was assuming Viserys would bottle them up with Smoky confinement or something, and take them with him home when he finally found a way.
 
Part MMCCCXXI: Concord of the Spheres Part Fifteen
Concord of the Spheres Part Fifteen

Eighteenth Day of the Fifth Month 293 AC

The further offer to exchange lore of your respective worlds and peoples to the benefit of all sides is easily accepted, a subtle sign of trust even from the cautious earth genies. Hopefully one day that lore will be safe to share not only with Scholarum students, but with bureaucrats, officers, and merchants. For the moment you can at least take pride in the foundations you have laid.

First come the mournful guard of the Peerless Empire moving as one with their legs half submerged into the fused stone at the center of Rooke's Shallow, carrying a square slab of flawless jade some twenty feet across. They settle it upon a pillar raised from the humble bedrock of the Stepstones, by the Sultana herself, with a solemn declaration of the fellowship and alliance made this day.

When she had said her part and stepped back from the pedestal half-a-dozen phoenixes, Velen among them, fly around it in a whirlwind of flame, the heat of their bodies fusing the stone until the jade plaque seems to have grown there, a testament to unity. And, you must admit, to the Shaitan alchemists who prepared the stone to merge through the fire of a phoenix's body which is hardly enough to soften gold. The mummery of lordship is little different no matter how high or how far one might look...

The hiss of salt water striking the cooling stone brings your attention back to the ceremony, Breath-Taker solemn in speaking for his people in this hour. By the end of it most look to him with respect or even outright appreciation, though there had at first been some discontent over the choosing of a priest as the triton delegate. Only the Sultan and Sultana kept their peace, knowing the vital role the Merling King is to serve in your battle against the Brazen Throne.

No sooner had the old priest too stepped back among his honor guard that the Lord of Armun Kelisk raises his hand in a dramatic motion, calling upon the heavens to bless this hour. And bless it they do, not with gentle wind or soothing rain, but a bolt, a column of lightning bright as the heart of the sun that carves the provisions of the treaty into the gleaming jade, each stroke perfect as though wrought from a master sculptor's hand.

Thus it is that you in turn step forth. For all that your nature is kin to flame that is not your gift for this conference, you speak of peace and understanding that has been wrought here, of a world that will forever lie balanced between all elements and of the sorrow you feel to be planning war in what should have been a joyous day for all. You speak of hope that the madness and depravity of the Brazen Throne will be undone, and that some day the children of Earth, Air, Sea, and Flame shall all come together in peace around this same monument.

"Yet I do not come here with only hope in my heart, honored friends and allies," you finish your speech. "I come with the certainty that together we can make it so."

With the final words you lay your hands upon the stone and speak words of wishcraft, calling on seeds already set in the soil beside the plinth to rise, grow, and bloom. Vines snake up the plinth to frame the oathstone as sweet-smelling jasmine flowers, unlike any that have ever seen the light of day, open up to the sun. A flower is a small thing and by its nature fragile, but you will work to see that these now tender shoots will endure through long ages of the world.

Gained Oathstone of Renewal

Concord of the Spheres Signed


Thus do your guests otherwordly depart, into the depths of the earth or the veil behind the clouds, leaving you to ferry vassals and allies from other lands to their homes, perhaps with a few more words for them also?

What do you do next?

[] Address some of the departing guests
-[] Write in

[] Move on to Sins of the Past (Wildfire Removal)
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: Nothing quite like a declaration that you will forge lasting lasting peace come what may to get people in the mood for war. Also before anyone asks, no the vines are not magical just a bit of horticultural wishcraft with help from the Lotus Leshy for the added symbolism.
 
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