But I'd bitch and moan about the result. Not DP reopening the vote.
All that means is that you have different priorities, I can respect that. Please respect that some people prioritize (what they perceive as) fairness over results. Calling people names and talking about how you'd like to delete dissenting posts ain't helping calm things down in here, man.

Much less would write like this demanding it's opened again
Yeah, that wasn't classy, agreed.

If you have concerns, and can offer good, constructive ideas that might help the quest grow and evolve, why don't you PM them to DP?
Seconding this
 
Last edited:
Honestly, I'd rather all of the posts after the update (that aren't relevant to it) got deleted so DP doesn't wake to this in the morning.
I apologize for salt posting and I tried very hard to restrain myself from doing so, but I felt like I had to make my voice on this matter heard.

For all the talk about metavoting, it is still that; voting.
the option that wins is the option with the most votes, which means that enough people wanted it to vote for it.
It might be the most active posters who argue and go at each others throats, but its the lurkers and semi-lurkers (like myself) who make up the majority of the votes in times like these.

DP does not give certain people the ability to change the setting on their own (barring certain retcons that are an entirely different discussion), thus whatever "metavoting" nonsense is going on it is still the questers who decide what happen in this quest.
 
It was bullshit when @egoo got mad over DP
I was quite salty at the moment, yes.
But I believe I made it clear I wasn't blaming DP for reopening the vote, rather a mistake was only closing it too soon (did what I said here make any sense?)

All other whining of mine is related directly to, as I have said multiple times already and probably bored you guys to death, disagreeing with idea of "whining about stuff after vote is closed" in general, as this behavior IMO inevitably leads to shitshows.

I did not throw any blame at TNE, nor other people who voted for him after that.

Also, yes, "Metaposting" thing is bullshit.
 
DP is way too precious and gets depressed about that.
On that at least, we agree.
Fine then, how do you suggest we go forward. We have a sentient ship who seems like she would prefer to avoid combat if possible, and likes exploring, who we need to pay for her services. What should we do with her an how should we pay her?
You got your DOOMship, now what?
 
Yeah, I don't really see how to use the ship is? Sure it's sentient but if we wanted to dazzle people with diplomatic superiority then Am Dragon is a pretty good way of doing so. At this point, I would just have it as a luxury ship for high paying people. Unless we weaponize it against its wishes which I am not comfortable with so now what?
 
On that at least, we agree.
Fine then, how do you suggest we go forward. We have a sentient ship who seems like she would prefer to avoid combat if possible, and likes exploring, who we need to pay for her services. What should we do with her an how should we pay her?
You got your DOOMship, now what?
At first guess, I'm thinking the crew itself we find for her is a sort of payment. Promising to try and make and interesting for her is the kind of thing fey would expect.

Fey motives are hard to guess at. At this time, I would really love some IC insight.

I'm thinking we assemble a nice crew and send her to the Summer Isles after a period of acclimitizing and crafting any equipment we might want after we figure out what she does.

For example, an item of Submerge Ship could be seriously awesome, even for the main party. Hunting for sunken treasure would be right up her alley I think.

And I do believe she will fight in conquests we make. She wants to protect her "tree", of course, but so does any sane person and there's very little that'd seriously endanger her. She is entering a vassalship.
 
Last edited:
At first guess, I'm thinking the crew itself we find for her is a sort of payment. Promising to try and make and interesting for her is the kind of thing fey would expect.

Fey motives are hard to guess at. At this time, I would really love some IC insight.

I'm thinking we assemble a nice crew and send her to the Summer Isles after a period of acclimitizing and crafting any equipment we might want after we figure out what she does.

For example, an item of Submerge Ship could be seriously awesome, even for the main party. Hunting for sunken treasure would be right up her alley I think.

And I do believe she will fight in conquests we make. She wants to protect her "tree", of course, but so does any sane person and there's very little that'd seriously endanger her. She is entering a vassalship.

What do you think of adding some Leshy to her crew? An Advanced Druid Creature Lotus Leshy would be a good start. Isn't there an aquatic variety of Leshy, too, something based on kelp?
 
The identify spell doesn't exist in setting.

I actually don't necessarily want the ritual to be nebulous I'm just saying that when something doesn't exhibit X, Y or Z (the parameters of the ritual as known by the characters) that doesn't mean it's A, B or C just that it isn't E, F or G.
That is fair. And there certainly are always exceptions: maybe the guy who takes no damage from your fireball has a custom feat that makes immune to the fireball spell, and your assay spell resistance is wasted.

But consider this: I don't think we ever got to directly see the Shaitan cursebreaker hand over the ritual, but given that we immediately knew it was an identify-equivalent, and that information about our rituals is IC, Viserys must have had the effects of the ritual explained to him by the Shaitan. I consider it highly unlikely that the cursebreaker lied or withheld information about how the ritual worked, because LN Genies don't generally cheat their customers, especially if they are in a position that requires people trust them with their magic.

Even if the limits of the ritual can only be learned by trial and error, we would still know the precise effects because we bought the thing from a group (and individual) who would have gained institutional knowledge of those effects through that process and shared them with us when we bought it.

I'm talking about because DP generally reads more or less all comments in the quest, or at least skimms them, and it's currently just a torrent of bitter/toxic posts, and DP is way too precious and gets depressed about that.

Sir! I take comedically overblown offense at this remark! @Deliste and I are having a perfectly civil and reasonable debate! :mad::mad:
 
I'm just going to sit this whole dryad discussion out, no strong opinions at all and some people seem to really care, best not to just throw two cents in when people are so invested.
 
At first guess, I'm thinking the crew itself we find for her is a sort of payment. Promising to try and make and interesting for her is the kind of thing fey would expect.

Fey motives are hard to guess at. At this time, I would really love some IC insight.

I'm thinking we assemble a nice crew and send her to the Summer Isles after a period of acclimitizing and crafting any equipment we might want after we figure out what she does.

For example, an item of Submerge Ship could be seriously awesome, even for the main party. Hunting for sunken treasure would be right up her alley I think.

And I do believe she will fight in conquests we make. She wants to protect her "tree", of course, but so does any sane person and there's very little that'd seriously endanger her. She is entering a vassalship.

We could give her a raise from the deep spell and she could do that for us. That makes her useful and gets us a fleet. I say send her around the Stepstones.
It is a fourth level spell and she should be able to cast it hopefully. We may need a sheet for her
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan TNE
-[x] Offer a fine crew to be under her command, to try and make her adventures interesting, and magical and mundane support.
-[x] Really could use IC insight here.

Let's put this up so we at least have something for when DP wakes up, or someone gets a brilliant idea.
 
Expanding on what you offered, @TotallyNotEvil.

[X] Plan "Fat Bottomed Ships, You Make This Rockin' World Go Round!"
-[X] Offer to put together a fine crew for the newly Awakened Queen Rhaella. It would take some time, but we could gather experienced mortal sailors, a cadre of neophyte mages stepping out into the wider world to seek their first great adventures, incarnate Plant Spirits (Leshy), and a companion of similarly unusual origins (a Sailor Arcanum) to aid her in her travels. If any Minotaurs, Tinker Fey, Blind Dogs, Little Valyrians, Children of the Forest, or other unusual citizens of the Imperium wish to be among her crew, and the Queen Rhaella is willing, they too will be welcome to join her.
--[X] While her crew is gathered, we would gladly host her in the harbor of Sorcerer's Deep. This would allow her to acclimate to the world in which she has so suddenly found herself.
--[X] A friend and ally of ours, an experienced sea captain of who has traveled extensively across the oceans of Planetos will soon need a ship to captain, as he wishes to once more take up the mantle of explorer. Although he is mortal, he has been exposed to no small measure of the supernatural, and is in fact on his second life. (If the Queen Rhaella is willing, ask Lohos Saan to take up the duties as co-Captain).
-[X] We will equip her as we would any allied adventurer (stat boosters, PfE item, Healing Belt, etc.), along with additional equipment for her and her crew (Alchemical items of various types, spare PfE items for "landing crews/away teams", extra Healing Belts), copies of sea charts we've gathered, etc.
-[X] Ask what else the Queen Rhaella would desire.
 
Last edited:
-[X] Ask what else the Queen Rhaella would desire.
Ah, the straight shooter of the congress.

[X] Plan "Fat Bottomed Ships, You Make This Rockin' World Go Round!"

I'm starting to really dig the idea of giving her an item of Submerge Ship and Raise from the Deep and Make Whole. Hunt treasure and raise long-sunken wrecks undersea, raise them from the "dead".

The crew's wrights could put every piece together with the Make Whole item.

And on that note, don't we already have one of those?
 
Last edited:
That is fair. And there certainly are always exceptions: maybe the guy who takes no damage from your fireball has a custom feat that makes immune to the fireball spell, and your assay spell resistance is wasted.

But consider this: I don't think we ever got to directly see the Shaitan cursebreaker hand over the ritual, but given that we immediately knew it was an identify-equivalent, and that information about our rituals is IC, Viserys must have had the effects of the ritual explained to him by the Shaitan. I consider it highly unlikely that the cursebreaker lied or withheld information about how the ritual worked, because LN Genies don't generally cheat their customers, especially if they are in a position that requires people trust them with their magic.

Even if the limits of the ritual can only be learned by trial and error, we would still know the precise effects because we bought the thing from a group (and individual) who would have gained institutional knowledge of those effects through that process and shared them with us when we bought it.



Sir! I take comedically overblown offense at this remark! @Deliste and I are having a perfectly civil and reasonable debate! :mad::mad:

I'd agree with that but even still we're PoB baby!! We do weird shit for breakfast, literally.

Dragons are rare and distant, maybe Drow are too and their creations strange and opaque but we will have to wait and see.

I am not quite caught up to what seems to be the peak of the thread discussion, I'm a little wary.
 
I do not like to extend this yet again, but I do feel the need to spell out some background from my side.


We had the discussion about the necromancer two weeks ago, it was argued at length and ultimately he wasn't approached. So yesterday I came into the thread and read pages of discussion, yet nobody posting any plans. People even started to forlornly ask around for someone to do it.

This did put me into a pretty crabby mood right from the start. First, we were yet again doing a meeting without a plan. Something that had caused quite a lot of salt last turn, as people kept complaining about their preferred actions not getting screen time and some yelling at me for tacking up so much space with politics.

Second, it was about something I am quite opposed to. Third, I was completely unaware that this did at any point get entered into a vote. I don't know if I simply missed it or if it was edited in after the last time I checked the plans.

Either way, after getting the worst of the salt out of my system by some snark, I decided to try and salvage this by making a no-deal vote. Then, @Goldfish told me I couldn't vote that way. This stung. Quite a bit. Especially coming from someone that I trust implicitly. From anybody else, I would probably would have ignored that post entirely, but from him, it felt like a betrayal.

My thoughts at that point could be summed up as: "What the hell are you trying to pull here?"

With the vote going for a while and ne being very late to it, I felt I had no choice but to go on the offensive if I wanted a chance to still affect it. So I've cut out the usual niceties and opened with a full broadside, catching @egoo with the edge of it.

From there on, it went downhill fast, as Goldfish didn't budge from his stance and didn't seem to get my issue at all. To me, that looked as if there was actual, malicious intent behind it, so onwards went the offense.

As I've said then, as I've said later and as I want to say again: My issue was not the vote itself, but the perceived attempt to silence a dissenting opinion by meta reasoning.

I did take some posts way harsher then they were probably meant, compounded by the hurry to get a word in edgewise and the resulting imperfect information on my side.

@Goldfish, @egoo, for what it's worth, I'm deeply sorry about how things went and it went downhill so fast not because I've had a bad opinion of you, but because the great trust I had in you was worsening the perceived breach.

I did what I did not to shut down a vote I didn't like, but because I felt I was acting in the best interests of the thread as a whole. To fight collusion and defend the right of every voice to be heard.


As for the specific accusation of @das_slash, I never wanted these retcons. I even begged DP privately to not do it. At least Relath was thus spared from a dropped anvil, though Abery seems to have been hit by it.


As for the Dryad vote, I did stick to my previously reached compromise with @Goldfish and @TotallyNotEvil to support them. I had my doubts and was tempted not to do so, due to my perception of the previous night, I will admit that freely. But I kept my word specifically to not burn any more bridges by repaying betrayal with betrayal. I want to get on well with everyone here. We are not here to be enemies.

I would have preferred the CotF option, but I didn't celebrate when it won at first, simply because I felt sorry for TNE to loose this without having had a chance to say his piece. Doubly so because the had been hardly any discussion about the options up to that point and the vote was over pretty briefly.

I was thus quite happy that it was re-opened and a proper discussion began, even though it was rather vitriolic from the beginning. I also agree with @das_slash that it is unfortunate that such a divisive matter got decided with such a small difference, but the vote was close the whole time, so it was unavoidable.

I was even thinking about intentionally tying the vote to provoke a stronger ship majority forming, but decided against it. I was worried that I might accidentally tip the scales in the other direction that way and didn't want to cost TNE this vote by flip-flopping for strategic reasons.


So yeah. That's my side of the past days. This got a whole lot more personal then I'm comfortable with, but specifically the people caught in my crosshairs deserve to know.

Beside the specific apologies, I want to apologise in general for having caused this much damage by trying to avert a small amount in a hamfisted way.
 
Well, glad I avoided, whatever the fuck that was.

Anyway now that the whole seed thing is dealt with what exactly is next on the agenda? I know we're planning on making the ancient dried out tree into a freakin' World Tree at some point and I know we've still got some combing around in the Jungle to do to find Yss's (is that how you spell that?) followers, but the rest of the schedule kinda slipped my mind.

Side note, how long until Squid War 3 the Resquiddening starts? I seem to recall a time limit of 3 years but I'm not sure how much in-game time has passed since then and I want our War Crimes ready to go the minute that clock strikes twelve.
 
Lets see:
Submerge Ship, 2/day, use-activated: 7*13*1800*0,5*2/5 = 3276 IM
Raise from the Deep, 3/day, use-activated: 4*8*1800*0,5*3/5 = 1728 IM
Make Whole, at will, use activated: 2*3*1800 = 1080 IM
Total: 6084 IM

Man, this entire thing is way more affordable than I thought it'd be. And considering a single wreck nets us an entire new ship, plus any precious cargo it might have been carrying...

I definitely want this on the docket for next turn's crafting.

And it's even coming up already!
 
Last edited:
Well, glad I avoided, whatever the fuck that was.

Anyway now that the whole seed thing is dealt with what exactly is next on the agenda? I know we're planning on making the ancient dried out tree into a freakin' World Tree at some point and I know we've still got some combing around in the Jungle to do to find Yss's (is that how you spell that?) followers, but the rest of the schedule kinda slipped my mind.

Side note, how long until Squid War 3 the Resquiddening starts? I seem to recall a time limit of 3 years but I'm not sure how much in-game time has passed since then and I want our War Crimes ready to go the minute that clock strikes twelve.

I suppose it depends on how much Monford really needs Aurane...
 
I do not like to extend this yet again, but I do feel the need to spell out some background from my side.


We had the discussion about the necromancer two weeks ago, it was argued at length and ultimately he wasn't approached. So yesterday I came into the thread and read pages of discussion, yet nobody posting any plans. People even started to forlornly ask around for someone to do it.

This did put me into a pretty crabby mood right from the start. First, we were yet again doing a meeting without a plan. Something that had caused quite a lot of salt last turn, as people kept complaining about their preferred actions not getting screen time and some yelling at me for tacking up so much space with politics.

Second, it was about something I am quite opposed to. Third, I was completely unaware that this did at any point get entered into a vote. I don't know if I simply missed it or if it was edited in after the last time I checked the plans.

Either way, after getting the worst of the salt out of my system by some snark, I decided to try and salvage this by making a no-deal vote. Then, @Goldfish told me I couldn't vote that way. This stung. Quite a bit. Especially coming from someone that I trust implicitly. From anybody else, I would probably would have ignored that post entirely, but from him, it felt like a betrayal.

My thoughts at that point could be summed up as: "What the hell are you trying to pull here?"

With the vote going for a while and ne being very late to it, I felt I had no choice but to go on the offensive if I wanted a chance to still affect it. So I've cut out the usual niceties and opened with a full broadside, catching @egoo with the edge of it.

From there on, it went downhill fast, as Goldfish didn't budge from his stance and didn't seem to get my issue at all. To me, that looked as if there was actual, malicious intent behind it, so onwards went the offense.

As I've said then, as I've said later and as I want to say again: My issue was not the vote itself, but the perceived attempt to silence a dissenting opinion by meta reasoning.

I did take some posts way harsher then they were probably meant, compounded by the hurry to get a word in edgewise and the resulting imperfect information on my side.

@Goldfish, @egoo, for what it's worth, I'm deeply sorry about how things went and it went downhill so fast not because I've had a bad opinion of you, but because the great trust I had in you was worsening the perceived breach.

I did what I did not to shut down a vote I didn't like, but because I felt I was acting in the best interests of the thread as a whole. To fight collusion and defend the right of every voice to be heard.


As for the specific accusation of @das_slash, I never wanted these retcons. I even begged DP privately to not do it. At least Relath was thus spared from a dropped anvil, though Abery seems to have been hit by it.


As for the Dryad vote, I did stick to my previously reached compromise with @Goldfish and @TotallyNotEvil to support them. I had my doubts and was tempted not to do so, due to my perception of the previous night, I will admit that freely. But I kept my word specifically to not burn any more bridges by repaying betrayal with betrayal. I want to get on well with everyone here. We are not here to be enemies.

I would have preferred the CotF option, but I didn't celebrate when it won at first, simply because I felt sorry for TNE to loose this without having had a chance to say his piece. Doubly so because the had been hardly any discussion about the options up to that point and the vote was over pretty briefly.

I was thus quite happy that it was re-opened and a proper discussion began, even though it was rather vitriolic from the beginning. I also agree with @das_slash that it is unfortunate that such a divisive matter got decided with such a small difference, but the vote was close the whole time, so it was unavoidable.

I was even thinking about intentionally tying the vote to provoke a stronger ship majority forming, but decided against it. I was worried that I might accidentally tip the scales in the other direction that way and didn't want to cost TNE this vote by flip-flopping for strategic reasons.


So yeah. That's my side of the past days. This got a whole lot more personal then I'm comfortable with, but specifically the people caught in my crosshairs deserve to know.

Beside the specific apologies, I want to apologise in general for having caused this much damage by trying to avert a small amount in a hamfisted way.
Sorry if you saw my stance as a betrayal, dude. I never intended to silence you, or for my posts to be interpretted in that manner.

I really believe we were just thinking in two entirely different boxes, if that makes any sense. Maybe a bit of a cultural misunderstanding?

I have no hard feelings and hope we can move past this entire unfortunate bump in the road.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top