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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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tarrangar said:
Yeah I'm quite sure Bahamut would approve of our sacrificing habits, or at least not disapprove too heavily, he's a dragon god of justice, our law of sacrificing only the evilest of people would probably appeal to him, because the sacrifice is fair punishment for their crimes, if anything he might think that we are going too easy on criminals, with how strict the requirements are.

Of course the others disagree with me, but I don't see a dragon god of justice that's unforgiving of evil, disliking gaining power though sacrificing the worst of evil beings.
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Neither the Old Gods, Yss or the Merling King are terribly picky with the sacrifices. He sure as hell will object to them.
 
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Offering a compromise vote:

[X] Plan Divide and Sell
-[X] Keep the statue of Trios until you've talked with their priests and learned about their faith. Decide later about it.
-[X] Keep the statue of the Weeping Lady and approach her faithful. Sell it whole or the parts to fund orphanages and hospices in her name and throw in a few "simple" statues of her for their temples and said places. (Simple here means Masterwork statues made by Fabricate from marble, cinnabar, obsidian and a few other non-precious, colored types of stones.)
-[X] Keep the altar of Burny in reserve. It's not worth much when taken apart and can be used in a gesture later, when you've brought his faithful to heel.
-[X] The minor statues will be sold off or taken apart in the near future, unless you find any congregations of their faithful.
-[X] Keep an eye open for any statues of the Old Gods, Yss or the Merling King. You can use those for other temples.
 
Also, now that we've taken Tyrosh, it's time to resurrect the old discussion about minting coins.

Eventually we'll move to a more sensible decimal system, but right now we want our coinage to end up in circulation in Westeros, so it needs to match that system for now. We can make more reforms post-Westerosi conquest, when we have control over the full money supply.

I don't think anyone wants to replace the Gold Dragon, and most of the less commonly used Westerosi coins are symbolically fine (like the almost never mentioned Silver Moon), but the most common silver and copper coins, the Stag and the Star (referencing the Seven) might need altering.

I think the image of a tree is the most politically useful replacement of the Star, in that it keeps hammering on that fissure between the North and the rest of Westeros.

The Stag is more difficult to replace. It's not the Baratheon Stag, but changing it does send a nice message. However, the previous suggestion I liked best (the slain stag) is no longer as good a choice due to our...working relationship with Stannis. The other suggestion I recall was the silhouette of our Shadow Tower, but we're going to change that when we repair it. We also probably don't want to use too many references to Gods to just slap a Snake on it (the Tree is for a specific purpose in Westeros), because we'll shortly have to start slighting gods by not giving them a currency with their symbol, and most gods are prideful and prickly.

So, thoughts? Do we like replacing the Star with the Tree? Any ideas on what to do to the Stag?
 
By the way, on the matter of useless frippery, I really want to tear the Archons palace into shape. It's spacious enough to house a decent chunk of the local government and we can get rid of the excessive gilding and other violations of taste while we are at it.

It will probably be the first rebuilding project ever that generates money, simply from all the gold and jewels we will pry from the walls.
 
Diomedon said:
Also, now that we've taken Tyrosh, it's time to resurrect the old discussion about minting coins.

Eventually we'll move to a more sensible decimal system, but right now we want our coinage to end up in circulation in Westeros, so it needs to match that system for now. We can make more reforms post-Westerosi conquest, when we have control over the full money supply.

I don't think anyone wants to replace the Gold Dragon, and most of the less commonly used Westerosi coins are symbolically fine (like the almost never mentioned Silver Moon), but the most common silver and copper coins, the Stag and the Star (referencing the Seven) might need altering.

I think the image of a tree is the most politically useful replacement of the Star, in that it keeps hammering on that fissure between the North and the rest of Westeros.

The Stag is more difficult to replace. It's not the Baratheon Stag, but changing it does send a nice message. However, the previous suggestion I liked best (the slain stag) is no longer as good a choice due to our...working relationship with Stannis. The other suggestion I recall was the silhouette of our Shadow Tower, but we're going to change that when we repair it. We also probably don't want to use too many references to Gods to just slap a Snake on it (the Tree is for a specific purpose in Westeros), because we'll shortly have to start slighting gods by not giving them a currency with their symbol, and most gods are prideful and prickly.

So, thoughts? Do we like replacing the Star with the Tree? Any ideas on what to do to the Stag?
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Right now everyone is minting coins in wildly different sizes and thus wildly different conversion ratios. I see no point in emulating the Westerosi coinage, especially since large-scale transaction will always be more likely to be done in large amounts of gold, not any silver or copper.

We can immediately do decimal conversion ratios and reap the benefits of that.
 
Diomedon said:
Also, now that we've taken Tyrosh, it's time to resurrect the old discussion about minting coins.

Eventually we'll move to a more sensible decimal system, but right now we want our coinage to end up in circulation in Westeros, so it needs to match that system for now. We can make more reforms post-Westerosi conquest, when we have control over the full money supply.

I don't think anyone wants to replace the Gold Dragon, and most of the less commonly used Westerosi coins are symbolically fine (like the almost never mentioned Silver Moon), but the most common silver and copper coins, the Stag and the Star (referencing the Seven) might need altering.

I think the image of a tree is the most politically useful replacement of the Star, in that it keeps hammering on that fissure between the North and the rest of Westeros.

The Stag is more difficult to replace. It's not the Baratheon Stag, but changing it does send a nice message. However, the previous suggestion I liked best (the slain stag) is no longer as good a choice due to our...working relationship with Stannis. The other suggestion I recall was the silhouette of our Shadow Tower, but we're going to change that when we repair it. We also probably don't want to use too many references to Gods to just slap a Snake on it (the Tree is for a specific purpose in Westeros), because we'll shortly have to start slighting gods by not giving them a currency with their symbol, and most gods are prideful and prickly.

So, thoughts? Do we like replacing the Star with the Tree? Any ideas on what to do to the Stag?
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I'd prefer the Shadow Tower and the Legion symbols. Nice and clean state symbols.
 
Azel said:
Neither the Old Gods, Yss or the Merling King are terribly picky with the sacrifices. He sure as hell will object to them.
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He will object to what they do outside of our realm, but in our realm sacrifice of living beings, is tightly regulated to only the worst of evil and non-sentient animals, neither of which he's likely to object to, and he's unlikely to be so inflexible, as to demand we stop allowing the worship of them, a temple of his was in the Opaline Vault after all, and that's a Neutral place if there ever was any, so while there's probably not many temples to evil gods there, temples to neutral gods like ours are probably aplenty.

He's not likely to be exactly happy with them, but he's not likely to object to how we interact with them, which is really what matters, it's no great matter if a priest of Bahamut, clash with Wildling followers of the old gods in the land behind the wall, so long as the conflict don't spill over to our realm.

Bahamut can't afford to make war with Neutral deities, his followers will try to stop the sacrifice of relative innocents if they see it of course, but he has actual evil deities that are far higher on his list, so at most skirmishes will happen, and all those skirmishes will happen outside our realm, to worshippers not working for us, because the worshippers working for us follow our law, good gods aren't incapable of being practical, Bahamut will see that we are keeping the less nice habits of those gods in check, and focus on opposing the evil gods that are spreading misery though the world.

Edit. Not to say he will never raise a stink or cause problems, but he's not going to try to ruin everything, or get us to renounce our association with the old gods, Yss, and the Merling king.
 
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@Diomedon, also keep in mind that we don't have any direct trade relationship with Westeros, bar maybe the occasional ship sailing under false flag.

I really don't see tying our coinage to theirs serving any purpose right now and since we are dealing exclusively with hard money on Planetos with even the Iron Mark directly tied to the value of gold. Thus the only discrepancy between our coinage and the Westerosi will be their weight.
 
Azel said:
Right now everyone is minting coins in wildly different sizes and thus wildly different conversion ratios. I see no point in emulating the Westerosi coinage, especially since large-scale transaction will always be more likely to be done in large amounts of gold, not any silver or copper.

We can immediately do decimal conversion ratios and reap the benefits of that.
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A decimal system prevents our coins from mixing in with the existing Westerosi money supply, and acting as everyday propaganda. The Gold is the least important part of that, it's the copper that's most valuable (and then the silver) that most of the population handle. Each coin would have the image and name of Viserys, and using said coinage is a tacit acknowledgment of our authority to issue coins. Not to mention we can mint coins very cheaply with fabricate, but Robert will really, really want to remint any coins of ours he can get his hands on, which costs him money to do so.

For reference, one of the main propaganda pushes during the first Blackfyre rebellion was the minting of his own coins. It's a valuable tool that we shouldn't dismiss out of hand when even if we adopt a decimal system, half the currency will still be foreign coins with a billion exchange rates due to the interconnected nature of the free cities. We'll get much more benefits from going decimal after having already gotten most of the free cities to adopt our coinage (actually, doing it now would just make the money supply even more complicated, rather than simplifying it).

Azel said:
@Diomedon, also keep in mind that we don't have any direct trade relationship with Westeros, bar maybe the occasional ship sailing under false flag.

I really don't see tying our coinage to theirs serving any purpose right now and since we are dealing exclusively with hard money on Planetos with even the Iron Mark directly tied to the value of gold. Thus the only discrepancy between our coinage and the Westerosi will be their weight.
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It's not about direct trade, it's about indirect trade (we pay locals for something, who buy things from a Trader passing through SD, who then uses those Westerosi looking coins in Westeros, slipping into their money supply. It's not about gold, it's about the silver and copper coins (which are also the ones impacted by decimalization)
 
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@DragonParadox, can you tell us the XP that everyone got?

Viserys
Dany
Lya
Ser Richard -- levelup needs to be accounted for on his sheet
Yrael -- cleric creature

Garin
Maelor
Glyra
Vee
Wyla

Waymar
Malarys
Xor
Tyene

Moonsong
Theon
Asha
Teana -- especially Teana, we were counting on her getting some nice XP here

Bronn
Valaena
Argo
Leila -- we were told she needed to be in combat to make it to level 5

Azema -- boost to become a concept cleric?
Codex Archon -- cleric creature

All Minotaurs
All Magelings
All Legionnaires
 
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@Diomedon, you raise a good point there. I was mainly considering the impact on trade, since that's the main reason I desire the decimalization.

However, we are not restricted to only have 3 coins, so I think we can reach a useful compromise there. Let me check the Westerosi system.
 
Also guys Bahamut is the DRAGON God of Justice. Eating your defeated foes and giant dumb animals kinda comes with the territory. He's not a vegetarian and neither are his followers. They are just picky and so are we for that matter.

But come on are guys telling me he would never have tried munching on an Elder Brain at least once? This guy's is Cannonically more active in the physical world than even Tiamat. He's probably had a wider variety of Monster meat than we have just in this quest.
 
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And then there's the full list of captured cultists/fiends yet to be shown, not to mention all artifacts and loot in general...

And then we want to get loot from Magisters here, and take copies of every single library in the city later...

Yeah, @DragonParadox, you've got my "hug" ratings.
All of them.
For all this was an immensely satisfying arc, it must be hell to keep track of and roll for.
 
Azel said:
Hm... I now notice that the silver to copper conversion in Westeros is a quite tremendous jump.

I smell a way to crash their economy.
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Please make the system something sensible. Conversion of 100 silver for every gold. Something that doesn't make accountants want to kill themselves.

You know... no wonder Baelish is insane.
 
I've kinda balanced the economic system under the assumption that 1 Gold = 10 Silver = 100 Copper, as per D&D standard.
The conversion rates for Westeros are way, way out there under that assumption, which is likely a result of assuming that all of these odd coins must be converted in whole numbers to all other coins and a few of the conversions being way out there.

@DragonParadox, hand-waving the whole currency thing or something to pour over in the economics discussion?
 
Azel said:
I've kinda balanced the economic system under the assumption that 1 Gold = 10 Silver = 100 Copper, as per D&D standard.
The conversion rates for Westeros are way, way out there under that assumption, which is likely a result of assuming that all of these odd coins must be converted in whole numbers to all other coins and a few of the conversions being way out there.

@DragonParadox, hand-waving the whole currency thing or something to pour over in the economics discussion?
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Thank god. The ASOIAF economy system deserves to be sacrificed. :mad:
 
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