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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
Right, I couldn't get as involved in discussion because I was at work, but--

You've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what Outsiders are like. Mortal creatures are fundamentally more mentally unstable, because all aspects of their being, body, mind and the planar energies they connect to are transient and ever changing. Which is why Outsiders cannot change alignment without interaction from other axiomatic/good/evil sources, conceptually speaking. It's a matter of instability and stability, not absolutism. See the flexibility the more hidebound archons exhibited.

Right now, Targaryen madness is something that effects a comparatively frail, mortal mind, manifesting in no absolute terms or manner. Rhaegar was hardly as instable as Viserys in canon, but the melancholy was obviously his "extreme", just like Aerys' paranoia and Viserys' insatiable pride (all likely a security mechanism to help them cope with the harsh world).

Turning into an Outsider would make Dany less mentally unstable.
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Thanks, but do you also have an answer to the question you quoted? :p
 
Crake said:
Argh, I quoted the wrong one. Also, let me think.
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I've come to the conclusion that yes, she still benefits from the Amulet, because even in a different shape it's not like the Amulet has gone anywhere, so why would its effects suddenly vanish? I could be wrong, though, so I just wanted to make sure.
 
Duesal said:
I've come to the conclusion that yes, she still benefits from the Amulet, because even in a different shape it's not like the Amulet has gone anywhere, so why would its effects suddenly vanish? I could be wrong, though, so I just wanted to make sure.
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Sorry, but she's operating under Polymorphic effect, which isn't the same as Viserys eventual class feature that specifically addresses this.

If she wants to benefit from her amulet, she has to take it off, transform, and then wear it around her serpentine neck.
 
Crake said:
Sorry, but she's operating under Polymorphic effect, which isn't the same as Viserys eventual class feature that specifically addresses this.

If she wants to benefit from her amulet, she has to take it off, transform, and then wear it around her serpentine neck.
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Well damn. :(

Thanks for the heads up.
 
Anyway, before my goofup, and in conclusion, yes, there are certain drawbacks to being an outsider. The framework in which they view the world is very much not "mortal". It's like seeing the underlying framework by which the universe operates instead of the picture that which hangs upon it like mortals do.

But, @Duesal, Dany is already not like other mortals, much less other children. She's more like an extremely wise Wyrmling with rare insight that even older dragons might appreciate. The ship has sailed.

If you wanted to protect the Dany, it had already left port before we'd even left Braavos. Dany protects herself.
 
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Crake said:
Anyway, before my goofup, and in conclusion, yes, there are certain drawbacks to being an outsider. The framework in which they view the world is very much not "mortal". It's like seeing the underlying framework by which the universe operates instead of the picture upon which hangs upon it that mortals do.

But, @Duesal, Dany is already not like other mortals, much less other children. She's more like an extremely wise Wyrmling with rare insight that even older dragons might appreciate. The ship has sailed.

If you wanted to protect the Dany, it had already left port before we'd even left Braavos. Dany protects herself.
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@Crake, I wasn't sad because I thought it made Dany less powerful, I was sad because I had to go back and undo those changes I made in my edits for the front page. :p It's just me being lazy. Dany's plenty strong, I'm not worried about her.

EDIT: Wait. Ignore me. I'm just tired from editing this stuff.

Yeah, her being an Outsider sounds a lot less scary now. I hope DP agrees with your interpretation.
 
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No, I was more using the concept of us as players wanting to shelter Dany from anything that might harm her mental stability, or harm her at all, when we are less capable of doing so than Dany is herself.

Only she really understands what dangers she faces and struggles she undergoes, because Viserys is often sheltered from such information by her. She is already long since past the effects of becoming an Outsider immediately changing our perception of her.

The only difference is we might see less incidences of her risking her life for some nebulous purpose defying comprehension or rationality.
 
Crake said:
No, I was more using the concept of us as players wanting to shelter Dany from anything that might harm her mental stability, or harm her at all, when we are less capable of doing so than Dany is herself.

Only she really understands what dangers she faces and struggles she undergoes, because Viserys is often sheltered from such information by her. She is already long since past the effects of becoming an Outsider immediately changing our perception of her.

The only difference is we might see less incidences of her risking her life for some nebulous purpose defying comprehension or rationality.
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It's less that and more that we're against her taking the absolutely insane risks.

Like that incident with the Genius Loci? Offering herself up for slavery? That was so far beyond the line I wanted to scream.

There is a limit to what we can accept.
 
[X] Haggle. Start at 100% profit rate, and allow Oberyn to bargain us down to 50% if he presses, but only so long as his total order does not require more than ten days of crafting. 100% profit on anything that exceeds ten days.
-[X] No Adamant

should probably vote
 
Snowfire said:
Edit: Viserys' reaction to the possibility of (older) Dany in a bikini will be priceless. Probably somewhere between "Pity the poor bastards" and "Don't you dare tell her!"

Unfortunately for the latter reaction, I'd give good odds that Tyene already has :V
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Dany can just chill in the water as Styx Dragon.
No need for any beachwear when you have scales.
 
The best solution for that is not to have a kneejerk reaction and on a meta level, pull back from a class progression which we have long since talked about and had time to allow percolate and get an impression for. It's the same thing with that trash discussion of turning into a chromatic dragon automatically making Viserys evil, or even, to a lesser extent, any of Viserys kids being inherently evil.

That might be true in other settings, by DP has by all indications made it clear that alignment and even mentality is not "fixed" or guaranteed. Every character experiences things which moulds the way in which they view the world.

If you want Dany to not do certain things, the best solution, in actuality, is to talk about it.

"Like normal people, Crake? Nah. Best to let it lie and ignore it, hoping to god you don't have to strain a nerve by making anyone uncomfortable."

:eyeroll:

Edit: Don't you dare rate this post as insightful, by the way. Sometimes I think I really am the only sane man around here.
 
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I have been thinking of Sir Richards Martial Maneuvers and what they mean in a fluff context. Looking back Sir Richard has done some pretty crazy stuff fighting monsters and beasts that would tear apart any other mortal man. Yet he has slain them yes with the aid of sorcery, enchantments, mystic weapons and arms. But that can only take you so far so I wonder with him fighting and killing even a champion warrior devil of the Nine Hells if he is subconsciously using the Diamond Mind Discipline without knowing about it. He easily figured out his Occult Slayer abilities because of how obvious it was he was turning spells against thier casters and other such flashy things. But Diamond Mind is just focus to a insane super human degree would he even notice it?

He has no frame work or reference to go by and could just say it's his skills sharpening with time battling these deadly foes for his liege. It would just be a natural and seamless aspect of fighting to him. Because he is just scratching the surface of the Discipline and so it doesn't jump out to his or others perception.
But if you had some random stranger watch and observe him closely they might see glimpses of something more then human here and there.
This is all based on the idea even with all the buffs and quality equipment he gets Sir Richard to face these foes still would require something a little extra for his skill fighting to survive these kind of combats and keep winning.
With magic returning it's not just casters but also warriors of all kinds finding most likely they can do more and that the old stories are more truth then fiction now. Nothing too absurd like one man army's more fighting multiple enemies and dramatic action scene stuff just got more plausible. Or at least that's my conspiracy theory of the day.

[X] Haggle. Start at 100% profit rate, and allow Oberyn to bargain us down to 50% if he presses, but only so long as his total order does not require more than ten days of crafting. 100% profit on anything that exceeds ten days.
-[X] No Adamant
Crake said:
The best solution for that is not to have a kneejerk reaction and on a meta level, pull back from a class progression which we have long since talked about and had time to allow percolate and get an impression for. It's the same thing with that trash discussion of turning into a chromatic dragon automatically making Viserys evil, or even, to a lesser extent, any of Viserys kids being inherently evil.

That might be true in other settings, by DP has by all indications made it clear that alignment and even mentality is not "fixed" or guaranteed. Every character experiences things which moulds the way in which they view the world.

If you want Dany to not do certain things, the best solution, in actuality, is to talk about it.

"Like normal people, Crake? Nah. Bet to let it lie and ignore it, hoping to god you don't have to strain a nerve by making anyone uncomfortable."

:eyeroll:

Edit: Don't you dare rate this post as insightful, by the way. Sometimes I think I really am the only sane man around here.
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Informative is technically not Insightful:V
 
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Oh you. You memetic god.

Edit:

@Wheel of time Yeah, on the same topic, 18 is statistically the best that a peak human could be in a stat, and Richard is on his way to Strength 20, which is where you start becoming blatantly superhuman.

And that's without magical items enhancing him.

That's likely Robert Baratheon, Demon of the Trident levels of strength.
 
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Crake said:
Oh you. You memetic god.
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Again just rated posts though I am working on a mega post describing how awesome this quest is and a Omake about the Berserker Champion idea Dursal talked about.
A line that might be in it is this. Also what does the memetic God comment refer to?
I am Old God's Slayer, I am rage bringer, hell screamer, war chanter, blood splitter, bone breaker, fury rouser, death howler, slaughter master and
reaving hunter. I am the wrath of Tree and Stone, the fury of the Storm and Earth, the rage of Elder days and the hatred of the Ancients. I am Berserker!!!!!
 
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The other day when you had announced you'd caught up, and were talking about all the things you loved about this quest, you mentioned how much you found it amusing that we held you up on a pedestal, that getting a rating from you on one of our older posts (because of how far back you were) was like some kind of rite of passage.

You used the word, quote unquote, "memetic god".

Which should be your title, by the way.
 
Duesal said:
Hey @Goldfish @TotallyNotEvil and anyone else familiar with D&D, so for Dany's polymorph forms like the Silver Dragon, when she's in those forms she still receives the benefit of having an Amulet of PfE, right? Immunity to possession and mental control? +2 to AC vs Evil?
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Actually, @Crake and Duesal, this is the text of Alter Self, which Polymorph refers to:
When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can't wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.
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So yes, Amulets and rings and belts should work without a problem.

Anything short of capes should work, or be made to work with Wildling Clasps.
spiritualatheist said:
Actually, it might end up being worse: she could try to help us. Think about it. We are a male prince extremely associated with fire who has been generally going around being not-a-dick (TM) to people and dealing with their supernatural problems. I could easily see Melisandre believing that we are Azor Ahai.
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Our every Grand Speech is more or less "be the flame against the darkness" yes.
Crake said:
If you want Dany to not do certain things, the best solution, in actuality, is to talk about it.
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I was just about to comment it.

In fact, since the Spinagon debacle, I've said that. We need to sit down and talk.
Wheel of time said:
and what they mean in a fluff context.
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First, read the "Lonmouth Style" entry on Paragon Knight. I more or less took DP's explanation of how he learned Spell Turning (he learned it from training with the Seeker, who has anti-magic hardwired into his being, and copying it to an extent) and ran away with it.

I was just thinking about a 6~10 level long base class that's a White Raven-only initiator, as a dedicated commander.
 
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@Goldfish
I agree with leaving out Dreamweaver for one level to get level 7 spells earlier, I can't look up Dragonspeaker from the mobile, but I think it should be available for level 14.

Also, maybe we should write up our menagery at some point, I keep forgetting about stuff like the Healing Ooze or the Gorgon.
 
I'm with Artemis... not least of all because I really like his suggested PrC. But also because there are a number of people we want to bring back to life and not having to negotiate with Uncle Bloodraven's tree gods is incentive enough towards just doing it on our own terms.

Edit: Aside from Mother, that is. He already promised to rez her, might as well take our overpriced 7th level spell casting.
 
Also, our own Raise is getting a bit too weak to feel save.

If that Devil had stabbed one of ours we couldn't have raised him/her, thanks to that amulet.
 
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