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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Sqweaktoy said:
Dude's a 7/10 on the Starscream scale, no thanks.
It might almost be worth it for the chance to crush his Sudden but Inevitable Betrayal.
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Most Evil minions seem likely to do the Sudden but Inevitable betrayal if they can get away with it, and likely will at the very least try to accumulate enough power to resist us as soon as possible.

The almost inevitable betrayal comes with the package, man.
 
Raichu1972 said:
The almost inevitable betrayal comes with the package, man.
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It wouldn't have with our Sworn Shield, hence my lamentations.
besides, LE and Ambition are highly correlated, but there's no causal relationship.
We might just have to wait till he have an empire, there's bound to be some nice loyal LE functionaries in the Dragon Emperor's employ.
 
Sqweaktoy said:
It wouldn't have with our Sworn Shield, hence my lamentations.
besides, LE and Ambition are highly correlated, but there's no causal relationship.
We might just have to wait till he have an empire, there's bound to be some nice loyal LE functionaries in the Dragon Emperor's employ.
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I was talking more specifically about @Azel s perfect hypothetical LE minion, who works for us only because it benefits him more at the current time to do so.

Said specific example would be ambitious, and would be looking for ways to accumulate power so they no longer have to rely on us and can rule in their own right, or would at the very least try to leverage this new power to get concessions from Viserys.
 
Raichu1972 said:
I was talking more specifically about @Azel s perfect hypothetical LE minion, who works for us only because it benefits him more at the current time to do so.

Said specific example would be ambitious, and would be looking for ways to accumulate power so they no longer have to rely on us and can rule in their own right, or would at the very least try to leverage this new power to get concessions from Viserys.
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I only ever see a couple of archetypes discussed in thread so I thought I'd broaden the option base.
 
Deliste said:
I only ever see a couple of archetypes discussed in thread so I thought I'd broaden the option base.
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So, I did a skim through the archetypes listed, and happened to notice that most of them emphasized the Lawful part of LE over the Evil part of LE.
They all also, in some way, enjoyed the pain and suffering of others, either by their own hand or by the hand of another.

Yes, LE can be loyal, and helpful, and useful, but they are also cruel. It seems like any use that could be gotten out of LE can just as easily be gotten out of LN, except LN doesn't come with built in assholishness.
I just don't particularly understand the desire to have Evil minions, while not particularly liking alignments, nor am I seeing the benefits that could be had from a LE in comparison to a LN.
 
Raichu1972 said:
So, I did a skim through the archetypes listed, and happened to notice that most of them emphasized the Lawful part of LE over the Evil part of LE.
They all also, in some way, enjoyed the pain and suffering of others, either by their own hand or by the hand of another.

Yes, LE can be loyal, and helpful, and useful, but they are also cruel. It seems like any use that could be gotten out of LE can just as easily be gotten out of LN, except LN doesn't come with built in assholishness.
I just don't particularly understand the desire to have Evil minions, while not particularly liking alignments, nor am I seeing the benefits that could be had from a LE in comparison to a LN.
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I've made similar observations in the thread. While I don't mind a competent LE minion if they are mostly trustworthy and not in a position to betray us too badly, for Azel's sake if nothing else, I would greatly prefer Lawful Neutral. It seems like they have all the benefits, with none of what I would view as drawbacks.
 
Raichu1972 said:
So, I did a skim through the archetypes listed, and happened to notice that most of them emphasized the Lawful part of LE over the Evil part of LE.
They all also, in some way, enjoyed the pain and suffering of others, either by their own hand or by the hand of another.

Yes, LE can be loyal, and helpful, and useful, but they are also cruel. It seems like any use that could be gotten out of LE can just as easily be gotten out of LN, except LN doesn't come with built in assholishness.
I just don't particularly understand the desire to have Evil minions, while not particularly liking alignments, nor am I seeing the benefits that could be had from a LE in comparison to a LN.
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You didn't skim very well then, 3 can be Bad things for Good reasons no sadism necessary but maybe too willing to be the one to have to get their hands dirty "my burden".

4 can be a near automaton also not having anything to do with sadism.

There's more to both and all the others too.

I don't particularly want Evil minions but I am quite sick of "No, Evil is Bad Obviously because we all know exactly what all Evil is like all the time".

Can there be no spectrum?
 
Raichu1972 said:
I just don't particularly understand the desire to have Evil minions, while not particularly liking alignments, nor am I seeing the benefits that could be had from a LE in comparison to a LN.
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I'm approaching it from the exactly different direction.

If we meet an interesting person who would make a good ally, friend or subordinate I want to keep the option to have him/her as that.
Not remove that chance by pre-emptivly striking against evil, or likely evil, people and creatures we meet.

That's all. I don't plan to specifically write a "Evil Help Wanted" poster.

Take as example Taena (who might have been Evil but wasn't), Bronn (Who is Evil) and earlier Glyra. All people we recruited regardless of alignment, or unknowing of it.
 
The crazy demon said:
Hey, Roose was a competent subordinate until Robb started fucking up his politics. :V

I wouldn't mind a LE character, but I would prefer one that isn't an Outsider, those are just too crafty for our own good.
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Ally #1.

Roose is incredibly competent and Rob was a dropkick idiot with his only redeeming feature being decent in battle.

Even in vanilla ASoIaF Names have Power.
 
I wonder if Dany could spend an action dreaming up the perfect, ambitious lawful outsider in the Dreamscape to possess a free body with.
 
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Part MDXLIII: Heirs of the Lost Lord Part Ten
  • Threadmarks
    • Heirs of the Lost Lord Part Ten​

    Second Day of the Twelfth Month 292 AC

    The mage-smiths of Valyria wrought spell-steel by dragon's breath that it may possess that primal fierceness, and quenched it in the blood of fiends to bequeath upon it a hunger that could not be sated. Yet in this place and in this hour you learn that the mages were wrong, for there are many powers in this world... some that give as freely as the fiends begotten of the dark take. That paths once lost may yet be found, and wounds of old may yet be healed.

    The sight beyond sight is still upon you, and by it you witness the frozen fire going out, and in the cold void where before only the sorcerer's craft and the echoes of the bloody sacrifices dwelt, light does grow and bloom: still an instrument of war, fierce and proud this, but a beacon also of light and hope. It speaks of loss and hardship overcome aid in the unlikeliest places, it speaks of the bastion this place once was before twas twisted by despair, the last vestiges of noble dream.

    To eyes that see naught but the light of common day, the armor is still black as steel scorched by flame, but where before its weaving of protective wards glowed red as new-spilled blood, now it is the comforting ruddy color of forge fire, the marks of devils shifted into a tongue that resounds of higher powers.

    Gained Armor of Remembrance

    Armor of Remembrance


    Apperance: To eyes that see naught but the light of common day, the armor is still black as steel scorched by flame, but where before its weaving of protective wards glowed red as new-spilled blood, now it is the comforting ruddy color of forge fire, the marks of devils shifted into a tongue that resounds of higher powers at the merest glance from one blessed with arcane senses.

    Abilities:

    Mundane Qualities: Reinforced (+1 AC); Segmented (+1 max Dex bonus)

    Base enchantment: +2 Enchantment bonus to AC; Fire Resistance 30

    Greater powers (CL 15):

    The item has 12 charges which recharge daily at dawn. They can be used in the following ways:


    1 charge: Celestial Healing
    3 charges: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
    9 charges: Holy Aura (DC 20)

    As you watch, all but enthralled by the transformation, you see something... no someone slide out from the embrace of steel and sorcery. The figure seems spun from moonlight, a specter whom you know by his deeds though not his name. He is old but unbroken, whole as you had not imagined him being, garbed in the simple robes of a citizen.

    "Dark have been my dreams, and bitter-sweet the waking," he says, looking to you. Seeing Vee measuring him up the specter adds, "Fear not, for I am not thine foe."

    "She's not afraid," Ser Richard snorts, allowing himself a weary smile. "Thinking about how to kill you most like."

    "That one so young should be driven to this..." the old soldier sighs. "I can but thank the both of you and of course the noble inheritor of my armor for bringing me here and giving me a chance at moving beyond the circles of this world at last, and seeing an end to my brother's madness." He hesitates a long moment. "I do not feel I have a right to ask anything more of you given the peril I pushed you into, but I would very much like to know at least one my kin safe and happy before I depart."

    A frown marks the face of angel for the merest instant, but it does not speak.

    What do you say?

    [] Agree to find another descendant

    [] Refuse to find another descendant

    [] Write in

    OOC: That armor is now a minor artifact with a hell of a celestial aura, being the touchstone that marks a lost deva finding faith in its purpose again.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • I can't speak for others, but I want an LE (specifically) team member for a couple reasons.
    A. It fits the overall vibe we have of not caring about our allies stance on the whole 'battle of Good vs. Evil' thing nearly as much as their stance on 'Battle of Viserys vs. his enemies'.
    B. Arbitrary balance preference. We have a couple good, and a couple neutral voices in our councils, a nice ruthless evil IC voice would help keep Viserys and others (coughDanycough) off the stupid heroism train. I love that train, it's a fine train, but it doesn't go where I want for this quest.
    C. LE is best E, so If I want Evil in house, why settle for less than the best?
     
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