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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Most of their problems were economic decline and from that problems with food and hygiene.

If we cut those consequences out with magic it'll give time for the economy to rebound, with SD as the capital and the source of exclusive planar goods we can distribute said goods through our holdings allowing the cities to regain their footing through trade and resulting service industries etc.
 
It doesn't remove the two very real problems that immediate abolishing of slavery would entail. Firstly: Economic turmoil which would require a direct, firm and present hand to deal with. And secondly: The ire of literally every state on Essos, tearing our attention away from Westeros and perhaps more importantly in the present state of things, ADVENTURE.
 
Tomcost said:
Which we would have anyway if we aimed for Tyrosh directly.
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I would rather Tyrosh attack us, so that we can bleed their strength more gradually, while simultaneously absorbing the best of what they send us. It will allow us to take smaller, more manageable bites, rather than trying to take the city all at once and choking on it.

If we just wanted to decapitate its government and destroy its infrastructure, likely also killing many civilians, most of them slaves, we could do that easily enough with relative impunity. As others have stated, however, we just can't reasonably hold a city the size of Tyrosh; we don't have the necessary men-at-arms or administrative staff, nor the free time to do it properly.

The ideal scenario is that we bleed them so severely that other cities start to see them as ripe for the picking. We can encourage that perception, of course. Then with the proper application of magic and political pressure, the leaders may see reason and come to us for protection.
 
Goldfish has the right idea. We need to pace ourselves. Conquest doesn't happen overnight... usually.
 
Goldfish said:
I would rather Tyrosh attack us, so that we can bleed their strength more gradually, while simultaneously absorbing the best of what they send us. It will allow us to take smaller, more manageable bites, rather than trying to take the city all at once and choking on it.

If we just wanted to decapitate its government and destroy its infrastructure, likely also killing many civilians, most of them slaves, we could do that easily enough with relative impunity. As others have stated, however, we just can't reasonably hold a city the size of Tyrosh; we don't have the necessary men-at-arms or administrative staff, nor the free time to do it properly.

The ideal scenario is that we bleed them so severely that other cities start to see them as ripe for the picking. We can encourage that perception, of course. Then with the proper application of magic and political pressure, the leaders may see reason and come to us for protection.
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I don't think that scenario is tenable. If the power, particularly the military power, of Tyrosh is weakened enough we'll get a slave revolt. 75% of its population are slaves. We're back to the whole orgy of blood and violence thing where any wealth to be found in Tyrosh is destroyed (as well as a significant number of its population). So, I disagree. We gotta move fast.
 
Diomedon said:
I don't think that scenario is tenable. If the power, particularly the military power, of Tyrosh is weakened enough we'll get a slave revolt. 75% of its population are slaves. We're back to the whole orgy of blood and violence thing where any wealth to be found in Tyrosh is destroyed (as well as a significant number of its population). So, I disagree. We gotta move fast.
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I wouldn't mind a slave revolt, to be honest. The system of slavery is totally untenable under our rule, but trying to abolish it ourselves will lead to an utter bloodbath, which we would be directly responsible for.

It's going to happen as a consequence of reestablishing a functional society that is not dependent on 3/4 of the population being property of the remaining 1/4. If it's inevitable, the best we can hope for is to not be directly associated with the cause. Sure, our actions might hasten the end of traditional Tyroshi society, but we don't have to be the ones to light the match that sets off the powder keg. It's also the option that lets us sleep at night.

I'm not terribly concerned about the city's wealth being destroyed, either. They don't have a great cache of Arcane lore or priceless enchanted Valyrian artifacts (that we know of), and the majority of its wealth has been built on the backs of slaves. The tangible resources we can extract from the city that might be of value aren't necessarily going to be precious metals and gems, fine art, or other luxuries (though I would hope for some of it), but the people themselves. Former slaves who survive the uprising and subsequent violence are going to be ripe for the picking. A charismatic leader who can give them direction and structure, without trying to enslave them, has a ready made population with all the skills and abilities needed to establish the force we'll use to subjugate the rest of Essos.
 
It would be funny if Tyrosh's opening move wasn't an invasion fleet, but, well... diplomacy?
 
We definitely need the laws done next month. There's no ifs and buts. We are conquering now and Westhaven means we will soon tussle with Tyrosh.
We need those laws to keep everything tied together, lest our realm shattering again or Tyrosh descending into complete chaos when we take it.

However, no matter what we do, Tyrosh will be ugly. We can ask Yreal for some advice how to end slavery on such a scale since he has some experience from Mantarys, but it will be bloody none the less.

We are punching way beyond our realms weight class when taking it and the ludicrous amounts of slaves means we don't have much change to prevent some measure of death and destruction.
That being said, we can use the slave revolt threat to do this.

Let Azema work on preparing a well organized uprising, arm them with Fabricated weapons and then go to the Archon and give them a ultimatum.
Meanwhile Westhaven will make great fly-paper. They will send military and on the open water it is far easier pickings then in the streets of a city.
 
So currently we have two plans in the running?

a) kill/corall the military while declaring ourselves sovereign with our massive social stats, in the future just sink any fleets objecting

b) critically weaken the military* then enable a slave revolt and secretly assist it them in the future
*maybe just decapiation or making them fight each other
 
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It'll be faster if we just take all the officers into our custody just before our fleet comes into range for a blockade. When they raise alarm and try to seek out the leadership, we'll announce that their leaders have surrendered (whether or not that's actually true) and request that they stand down. Then we'll disarm them, put our own people in charge, and process everyone. The slaves will be manumitted and probably grateful enough to remain or be moved to SD. Personally I'm tempted to move them all to SD because more population means our capital can expand even further and it's where they're best able to get away from the people who owned them. And where we're more able to give them new trades and livelihoods.

The free men, both soldiers and tradesmen, will be offered a choice between remaining and being productive, joining our fleet, etc. We'll put our own people in charge of them and mix the crews so that they're spread in such away amongst our fleet without a chance of being able to pull off a mutiny.

All of the officers? We'll cherry pick the most competent and useful and offer them a chance to serve us. The (irredeemable and incompetent) reprobates and monsters will be hung.

Everyone who resists will be hung.
Adhoc vote count started by Deliste on Sep 14, 2017 at 9:18 PM, finished with 100384 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] Have Azema give you a rundown of the most important officers and officials in town, and what they did to get sent here.
    [X] Have her convince the fool to impress her by arranging a large dinner party (to begin in the late evening) in 4 days, calling in as many ships as he can (to have their captains attend).
    -[X] Once everyone at the party is nice and tipsy, reveal yourself and convince them of all the benefits of joining you. (VotD+AoN, dismiss AoN if intimidation is needed. Be quite careful.)
    [X] Arrange for our fleet to leave immediately for Westhaven, carrying several squads of Minotaurs and other men-at-arms, and our seagull constructs. After we capture Westhaven, the constructs are to report of any ship leaving the island, and have the fleet intercept.
    -[X] Dany and the Pech, using Wall of Stone spells and Bulabar oversight, will close off the mouth of Westhaven's harbor during the dinner. Dany will set the underwater anchor walls, while the Pech link them together above and slightly below the waterline. Try to make it so that the stone can later be used to improve the harbor entrance, both from a defensive standpoint as well as to mitigate the effects of dangerous storms. They'll be guarded by Garin and Vee, all three buffed by Lya's Life Bubble spell, in case anyone comes investigating.
    [X] Plan "All your base are belong to us" Part One: Westhaven
    -[X] Arrange for our fleet to leave immediately for Westhaven, carrying several squads of Minotaurs and other men-at-arms. After we capture Westhaven, they are to patrol the local waters and seize any Tyroshi ships which enter the area.
    -[X] Debrief Azema to learn everything of potential relevance that she knows about the officers stationed at Westhaven, as well as any other prominent individuals of interest.
    --[X] Instruct her to convince the officer in charge to make a public address, one mandatory for all of his subordinates (and calling in as many nearby ships as possible), announcing their upcoming marriage or some other suitably momentous occasion. It will be scheduled for sunrise on the appointed day (whenever our other preparations are complete). Buff Azema with Air of Nobility if she thinks it necessary.
    -[X] Dany and the Pech, using Wall of Stone spells and Bulabar oversight, will close off the mouth of Westhaven's harbor the night before the announcement. Dany will set the underwater anchor walls, while the Pech link them together above and slightly below the waterline. Try to make it so that the stone can later be used to improve the harbor entrance, both from a defensive standpoint as well as to mitigate the effects of dangerous storms. They'll be guarded by Garin and Vee, each buffed by Lya's Life Bubble spell, in case anyone comes investigating.
    -[X] Once everyone is gathered for the announcement, Viserys in HD form (using a Ribbon of Disguise to appear human), buffed by a Clarion Call spell cast by Dany, plus Voice of the Dragon and Air of Nobility, will make his presence known and attempt to convince everyone of the benefits of transferring their loyalty to his regime and the potential dangers of taking up arms in favor of Tyrosh. Use the closed off harbor as an example of our power.
    [X] Have Azema organise a party. You and the others will attend in disguise and join the merry making.
    -[X] Once everyone but the party is slightly tipsy, reveal yourself and convince them of all the benefits of joining you. (Use only VotD to prevent any molten brains.)
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Wait a minute, how about we do it this way.

When in the party, we declare our intentions for trade (except slavery), or at least a non-agression pact with Tyrosh (thier slavers though better stay out of our sight). In return, we are improving Westhaven in exchange for payment (we're actually getting them used to us).

We will then offer Tyrosh our services in the Disputed Lands using our unnatural armies (Minotaur, army, B-Team training) for more payments (while another party plays with Lys/Myr, bleeding them slowly, economically) while fighting as a sellsword company in the Disputed Lands. We then slowly siphon off the wealth of the Three Daughters until we are ready to conquer them.

I'm suggesting this, because I really don't feel like we can hold Tyrosh with what we have so far, and conquest of Westhaven will trigger a war with them. Let's get the Great Westeros Trek finished before we start a war with one of the three cities.

Can we? Pretty please?
 
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[X] Goldfish

Now it's properly conntested. It's a gorram tie!
Adhoc vote count started by Crake on Sep 15, 2017 at 3:32 AM, finished with 116 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Plan "All your base are belong to us" Part One: Westhaven
    -[X] Arrange for our fleet to leave immediately for Westhaven, carrying several squads of Minotaurs and other men-at-arms. After we capture Westhaven, they are to patrol the local waters and seize any Tyroshi ships which enter the area.
    -[X] Debrief Azema to learn everything of potential relevance that she knows about the officers stationed at Westhaven, as well as any other prominent individuals of interest.
    --[X] Instruct her to convince the officer in charge to make a public address, one mandatory for all of his subordinates (and calling in as many nearby ships as possible), announcing their upcoming marriage or some other suitably momentous occasion. It will be scheduled for sunrise on the appointed day (whenever our other preparations are complete). Buff Azema with Air of Nobility if she thinks it necessary.
    -[X] Dany and the Pech, using Wall of Stone spells and Bulabar oversight, will close off the mouth of Westhaven's harbor the night before the announcement. Dany will set the underwater anchor walls, while the Pech link them together above and slightly below the waterline. Try to make it so that the stone can later be used to improve the harbor entrance, both from a defensive standpoint as well as to mitigate the effects of dangerous storms. They'll be guarded by Garin and Vee, each buffed by Lya's Life Bubble spell, in case anyone comes investigating.
    -[X] Once everyone is gathered for the announcement, Viserys in HD form (using a Ribbon of Disguise to appear human), buffed by a Clarion Call spell cast by Dany, plus Voice of the Dragon and Air of Nobility, will make his presence known and attempt to convince everyone of the benefits of transferring their loyalty to his regime and the potential dangers of taking up arms in favor of Tyrosh. Use the closed off harbor as an example of our power.
    [X] Have Azema give you a rundown of the most important officers and officials in town, and what they did to get sent here.
    [X] Have her convince the fool to impress her by arranging a large dinner party (to begin in the late evening) in 4 days, calling in as many ships as he can (to have their captains attend).
    -[X] Once everyone at the party is nice and tipsy, reveal yourself and convince them of all the benefits of joining you. (VotD+AoN, dismiss AoN if intimidation is needed. Be quite careful.)
    [X] Arrange for our fleet to leave immediately for Westhaven, carrying several squads of Minotaurs and other men-at-arms, and our seagull constructs. After we capture Westhaven, the constructs are to report of any ship leaving the island, and have the fleet intercept.
    -[X] Dany and the Pech, using Wall of Stone spells and Bulabar oversight, will close off the mouth of Westhaven's harbor during the dinner. Dany will set the underwater anchor walls, while the Pech link them together above and slightly below the waterline. Try to make it so that the stone can later be used to improve the harbor entrance, both from a defensive standpoint as well as to mitigate the effects of dangerous storms. They'll be guarded by Garin and Vee, all three buffed by Lya's Life Bubble spell, in case anyone comes investigating.
    [X] Have Azema organise a party. You and the others will attend in disguise and join the merry making.
    -[X] Once everyone but the party is slightly tipsy, reveal yourself and convince them of all the benefits of joining you. (Use only VotD to prevent any molten brains.)
Click to expand...
 
[X] Diomedon

I mostly just wanted to take this so our target-ships don't have a save harbor in the Stepstones anymore. Raiding profits were going down, something had to be done!
Don't care about Tyrosh as long as we minimize the time we have to spend there.
 
I really don't want to start a Tyroshi conquest, but people really are into this. So to break the tie I go with

[X] Goldfish

As I don't like involving our navy for what might be a ransoming in the end.

Edit: And it's a tie again. Look's like the devil is in the details to break it.
 
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Meep. Androgene Frankenstein fan comes up to shatter the votes. As most are still sleeping, how about an interlude DP if you're still not calling it?

Relath mayhaps? Or an update with Ysilla or Jon?
 
[X] Goldfish

Voting mostly blind due to lack of time, but Goldfish wants Tyrosh so it should be fine.
 
DragonParadox said:
An interlude sounds fine but I can't do Ysilla or Jon because not enough time has passed for anything interesting to happen at either Winterfell or Runestone.
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Hm...

I would love Varys, but probably far too revealing.
Slice of life from SD is always nice, but we had a few of those lately.
Benerro maybe?
Maybe something from the Wildlings north of the wall? I would love to know if Tormund is available for recruiting.
 
[X] Diomedon

We take Westhaven and leave something capable of calling us later when Tyrosh retaliates. Divinations will help.
Then we teleport in when they attack and crush them.
That way we can still do the great Westeros Trek.
We take Tyrosh when we're done.
 
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