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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Choosing a Side ​

Fifth Day of the Twelfth Month 294 AC

You find yourself in the Red Keep again in the company of governors, inspectors, and even commissars. In some ways the choice you make today is obvious. King's Landing is the end of the Gold road, and it is where many of the displaced folk are traveling to in the first place. It should not be too hard to make sure most of them reach the end safely and do not stray, but everyone here knows their history, knows how King's Landing grew into the noisome morbid state you had found it in. It had been the gathering of too many people and not enough space, not enough water, not enough access to simple sewage that had set the cesspool of Fleabottom bubbling... and those people had come from the Riverlands during the Dance.

Of course, this is not a time of war, nor is the city without aid or care from the wider realm. You had already approved some funds to erect new houses and apartments, but it is still going to take some time for the newcomers to settle in, and the sad fact of the matter is King's Landing is not Sorcerer's Deep, there are nowhere near as many opportunities as for work free of the strictures of the guilds here.

In the end, it is the usually quiet Shad Ibn Mal who comes up with the best short term solution to get these people working and earning a living wage while they get on their feet, to tear down the walls of the city, built to fight a sort of war that is as dead as the last king and use the space to help the city expand.

Thankfully, there is no trouble in the hinterlands around the former capital, with lords of the southern and northern Crownlands having the wisdom to improve their lands without turning too many people out.

Local Taxes
  • Northern Crownlands: 89 (Success)
  • Southern Crownlands 63 (Success)
***​

Unfortunately, you do not have long to keep your eyes on matters in King's Landing, owing to other subtler troubles, specifically from the Inquisition as it attempts to expand its reach into rural areas and the keeps of lesser lords, to gain control over the important centers of production and the agricultural heartlands of Westeros. There is for once no blood spilled and no threats of violence even made, no scandals in the papers, but there is trouble brewing on the horizon just the same.

"The narrower the stage and the more the audience knows the mummers, the easier it is to trip," Garin puts it rather succinctly that night at dinner, a private affair for family and friends. "I have been seeing report after report of newly inserted agents getting tripped up, getting found out, particularly when dealing with communities that are socially if not economically isolated. There have been cases where the local lords reacted poorly, like in the Shield Islands, but mostly the matter was swept out of sight before much could be made of it only... "

"Only we are leaning on the traditional levers of power again, and if the lord has to smooth things over the Inquisition cannot help to enforce Imperial Law," you finish. Leaning back in your seat, you ask, "So what do you think the trouble is? Difference in culture? Language? Religion?"

"In a way, I think it might be all of them and neither," your friend replies. "There is a difference in social structure that makes it harder for something as impersonal as the Inquisition to function as it does in parts of Essos, at least once it is operating openly. The aristocracy of Westeros and their immediate retainers value their honor, or at least the perception of their honor, more than we are used to. There is this impression that the personal connection, looking into one's eyes and shaking his hand is more valuable, more real, than well..." he smiles. "The dragon coiled on his throne of steel, as they say."

More flattering than what those same people thought of you a year ago for certain. Taking another sip of your wine, you listen as he continues..

"It is not that we are not finding recruits. There are more than enough incentives to get people to talk, it is just that we are not finding trustworthy recruits, which of course compounds the trouble." At your nod, he adds, "I think we need to change how the book and sword is perceived. One or the other as it were. We can either present the Inquisition as principally heroes against external foes who aught to be trusted for their valor and sacrifice, or as bearers of the book, mostly harmless, eyes and ears, people to help with the fiddly bits, you know, sort of like the Maesters."

"Because they turned out to be so very harmless," you laugh. Still, he makes a good point about social norms and how the inquisition straddles them.

Impose Imperial Law on Centers of Production 18 (Failure)

The reputation of the Inquisition has taken a hit in many parts of Westeros, particularly south of the Neck

What should the Inquisition present as?

[] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm

[] Book before Sword: Humble servants of the realm

[] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox

[] Write in

OOC: This is only a regular fail so nothing exploded, but it did reveal a bit of brewing trouble in public perception. Not yet edited.
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Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
I'm torn between these two choices;

[] Book before Sword: Humble servants of the realm

[] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox

The first isn't bad by any means, and we have plenty of combat-oriented assets to be the actual protectors, but at the same time, I don't really see an issue with the Inquisition as it currently stands. Westeros is just being Westeros.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm torn between these two choices;

[] Book before Sword: Humble servants of the realm

[] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox

The first isn't bad by any means, and we have plenty of combat-oriented assets to be the actual protectors, but at the same time, I don't really see an issue with the Inquisition as it currently stands. Westeros is just being Westeros.
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Keep in mind this is not a vote about what the inquisition will do, but about what the propaganda says it does. So it's not like they can't break type, it's just that doing so publicly after selling the narrative will lead to worse backlash.
 
[X] Book before Sword: Humble servants of the realm

Personally I think this is the best bet in getting the Westerosi to see the Inquisition as vital to the Imperium.
 
DragonParadox said:
Keep in mind this is not a vote about what the inquisition will do, but about what the propaganda says it does. So it's not like they can't break type, it's just that doing so publicly after selling the narrative will lead to worse backlash.
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Ah, I see. I blame my missing that originally on having just woken up... :oops:

[X] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox
 
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I'm not sure how we're going to manage that reputation change after the way the Inquisition has been presented up to this point.

If we do pull it off successfully there's also a possibility that it'll negatively impact things we're already having them do.

We've already had a few scenarios where they either needed to intimidate some intransigent nobles or convince them that they were deadly serious and capable of handling highly dangerous situations.

It'd be harder for them to do that if they're seen in the same light as the glorified mailmen.

[X] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm
 
[X] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm

No defanging the inquisition; Subtle intimidation and dealing with threats while good people sleep is how it should be perceived, what bestows it power.

Too, that way, seemingly inoffensive scholars could not possibly be part of it - something of a win in its own right.
 
Nickan said:
[X] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm

No defanging the inquisition; Subtle intimidation and dealing with threats while good people sleep is how it should be perceived, what bestows it power.

Too, that way, seemingly inoffensive scholars could not possibly be part of it - something of a win in its own right.
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That was my concern at first as well, but as DP clarified, this is only going to be a propaganda stance, not actual Inquisition operation. As far as the Inquisition is concerned, it will be business as usual.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'm not sure how we're going to manage that reputation change after the way the Inquisition has been presented up to this point.

If we do pull it off successfully there's also a possibility that it'll negatively impact things we're already having them do.

We've already had a few scenarios where they either needed to intimidate some intransigent nobles or convince them that they were deadly serious and capable of handling highly dangerous situations.

It'd be harder for them to do that if they're seen in the same light as the glorified mailmen.

[X] Sword before Book: Noble protectors of the realm
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It should be noted that for a lot of people in Westeros the inquisition has not been presented at all beyond distant rumor and an article they read in one of the old air-dropped editions of the Imperial Times. It is easy to lose track of the scope of both space and population when so much focus is on th cities and on SD particularly but there are still plenty of people who half a year later say 'king' and not 'imperator' never mind knowing that the inquisition is for.
 
Goldfish said:
That was my concern at first as well, but as DP clarified, this is only going to be a propaganda stance, not actual Inquisition operation. As far as the Inquisition is concerned, it will be business as usual.
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Yeah, but reputation is a sort of power itself, and is one they make good use of.

Take that whole thing with the drunken god's subverted cult. Could the inquisition have handled that as easily if they had to stop and convince people they could actually handle the things they were looking into?

Even if we do accept that change the chance of backlash if they break character is concerning, especially if we don't plan to stop running normal operations.

I don't think they'll be able to completely hide the general details of their work forever. All it'd take would be one messy demon cult for them to torpedo public trust in their office.
 
Goldfish said:
That was my concern at first as well, but as DP clarified, this is only going to be a propaganda stance, not actual Inquisition operation. As far as the Inquisition is concerned, it will be business as usual.
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I am saying perception of competence and a reputation for shadowy operations are an important and not lightly discarded facet of the inquisition's power. Won't be business as usual when lords doubt, cultists think they can get away with it. "They are just inquisitors, researchers, you know?"

The law's reach is much lesser than most people realize. And then inquisitors do deal with some eldritch abomination because they are there and actually competent and everyone looks in askance and we have yet another wave of trust lost.. because they were supposed to be maester equivalents neatly slotted. :)
 
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Honestly this looks as if maybe the inquisition should be expanded into several divisions and/or supplemented by other organizations.
 
I think y'all are missing the forest before the trees. When the Inquisition is showing up, they are behaving in a very particular manner. It isn't kicking down doors (or it isn't all that, and when it happens, no one really ever sees it, sometimes doesn't even see the aftermath), it's mostly quiet people showing up before your door, asking some questions, and sometimes just leaving town and never coming back. Sometimes it's more loud and blatant, like holding up an entire convoy and turning it over for a dangerous fugitive, or sometimes it's "inviting" themselves into a Lord's home and then a fight breaks out between them and a vampire during a banquet. Or sometimes they spend most of that visit pouring over records trying to figure out what's causing the local townsfolk to act oddly.

We don't want people who aspire to be knights who kick doors down and get cheered in the streets and poured free ale to surge for the Inquisition, but neither do we need moribund plotters who don't even make up for their scheming by being men of action and strong character.

[X] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox

What we want are the best of the best, and only the best.
 
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Crake said:
I think y'all are missing the forest before the trees. When the Inquisition is showing up, they are behaving in a very particular manner. It isn't kicking down doors (or it isn't all that, and when it happens, no one really ever sees it, sometimes doesn't even see the aftermath), it's mostly quiet people showing up before your door, asking some questions, and sometimes just leaving town and never coming back. Sometimes it's more loud and blatant, like holding up an entire convoy and turning it over for a dangerous fugitive, or sometimes it's "inviting" themselves into a Lord's home and then a fight breaks out between them and a vampire during a banquet. Or sometimes they spend most of that visit pouring over records trying to figure out what's causing the local townsfolk to act oddly.

We don't want people who aspire to be knights who kick doors down and get cheered in the streets and poured free ale to surge for the Inquisition, but neither do we need moribund plotters who don't even make up for their scheming by being men of action and strong character.

[X] Keep things as is, the citizens of the Western Provinces will have to get used the seeming paradox

What we want are the best of the best, and only the best.
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While this is a concern, you do have an issue right now as well, which is to say lack of trust and compatibility with the existing culture leading to poor recruitment. Garin's concern is that this will self-reinforce until the Inquisition is seen as inherently unreliable or foreign (due to the use of handlers and investigators from other parts of the realm) in Westeros.
 
DragonParadox said:
While this is a concern, you do have an issue right now as well, which is to say lack of trust and compatibility with the existing culture leading to poor recruitment. Garin's concern is that this will self-reinforce until the Inquisition is seen as inherently unreliable or foreign (due to the use of handlers and investigators from other parts of the realm) in Westeros.
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would letting the Inquisition recruit possible operatives and agents from the legions solve the issue ? once there are more Westerosi citizens in them
 
Maybe a bit of clarification might help here. In Essos, the Inquisition is publicly known mostly for their investigation work. Nice people who show up, ask some questions and go on their way. That's the public face everyone knows and talks openly about. What is only said behind closed doors and whisper after a few beer is how some of those people who got asked some questions are never seen again. How there were a few guards that nobody had ever seen before directing people away from a fire that happened last night. Illegal alchemist shop in the basement, you know? That's why there were explosions. And there is certainly no 5m tall Inqusition agent in fully body black plate armor, no matter what the people living next to the commissariat claim to see at night.

For Westeros, these two faces are at odds. In the local culture, there is no private and public persona. People expect that someone is in private just like they are in private or at least not that different. Ned Stark is publicly a honorable man, so they expect that he is honorable in his private dealings. Gregor Clegane was a renowned knight, so news that he behaved monstrously in private were a shock and scandal for anyone who hadn't already seen so himself. It's a thing that has been carefully cultivated by Westerosi nobility and clergy as part of their public images of piety, honor and valour. It is similar in small villages and other communities, where your public reputation can be the difference between life and death in a harsh winter. Essosi nobility and traders obviously tried the same, but Essos is also used to hearing juicy scandals about those people, to say nothing about the well acknowledged fact that the kindest man you ever met would still beat his slave to death if he stepped out of line. People there are used that the image you project outwards and the person you are beneath are different things entirely.

So a lot of Westerosi see the soft spoken, quiet and polite people getting around and asking questions, assuming that is all they are. That doesn't click with the roll they allegedly serve. In reverse, those who get the scary rumors first are stumped that those people are supposed to be dangerous. Add a bit of xenophobic prejudices against Essosi and you end up with some criminal group in Oldtown thinking the foreigners are just weak and that they can establish dominance over the Inqusition by murdering a few of them in broad daylight.


The question here is mostly if you want to lean into one of the sides of the coin to make it easier for the Westerosi to put the Inquisition into a familiar mental box, or if you want to leave things as they are and wait for everything to sort itself out naturally, and sometimes messily.
 
*grimace* Messy it is. The other thing unmentioned is that whole "what do we think we see when we deal with the Inquisition" is that the Lords need to know that they aren't just footmen who get sent in first to soften up the bad guys before the guys with shiny swords come in, but nor are they without their teeth. They're professionals who generally come in with experts for whatever situation they're faced, or call them in when they don't have them on hand.

The dichotomy can be worked on with propaganda and state media shaping Westerosi culture over time to one where you can be a learned specialist but also a badass. Erroneous preconceptions held by the masses are incredible obstacles to overcome, but ones held by those who have authority are just dangerous job hazards.
 
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Crake said:
*grimace* Messy it is. The other thing unmentioned is that whole "what do we think we see when we deal with the Inquisition" is that the Lords need to know that they aren't just footmen who get sent in first to soften up the bad guys before the guys with shiny swords come in, but nor are they without their teeth. They're professionals who generally come in with experts for whatever situation they're faced, or call them in when they don't have them on hand.

The dichotomy can be worked on with propaganda and state media shaping Westerosi culture over time to one where you can be a learned specialist but also a badass. Preconceptions held by the masses are incredible obstacles to overcome, but ones held by those who have authority are just dangerous job hazards.
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Just to be clear the incompatibility is not perfect, like generally speaking the high nobility are savvy enough to get that the face you show the world and the one you do in private can be different and they can parse out the seeming paradox better than most. But for right now that insight is very much held close to the chest, many of these people do not even know how to talk about it without seeming disloyal to the crown

Like imagine Lord Royce gets a letter in which his daughter the Inquisitorial agent, talks about that time she helped take down an actual cult and she explains what a black knight is and how they are used tactically. How does the lord with his cultural context explain what an inquisitorial strike team is in a way that does not (in his eyes) paint the Imperator as dishonorable.
 
Crake said:
*grimace* Messy it is. The other thing unmentioned is that whole "what do we think we see when we deal with the Inquisition" is that the Lords need to know that they aren't just footmen who get sent in first to soften up the bad guys before the guys with shiny swords come in, but nor are they without their teeth. They're professionals who generally come in with experts for whatever situation they're faced, or call them in when they don't have them on hand.

The dichotomy can be worked on with propaganda and state media shaping Westerosi culture over time to one where you can be a learned specialist but also a badass. Erroneous preconceptions held by the masses are incredible obstacles to overcome, but ones held by those who have authority are just dangerous job hazards.
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It bears remembering that the Inqusition has pretty much unrestricted access to military hardware and Fleshforge creations. An Inqusitior in powered armor leading a troop of Seekers and mid-CR undead is well within their means to deploy on short notice against someone or something giving them trouble.
 
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