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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@DragonParadox this is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but if the only gods don't let random people into the green dream then do they actually do anything for the souls of their followers?
I was just wondering since we're going to have a whole bunch of people in the market for a faith by the end of the day, and pointing them towards gods who won't actually save them from the river of souls would be kind of pointless.
 
BronzeTongue said:
@DragonParadox this is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but if the only gods don't let random people into the green dream then do they actually do anything for the souls of their followers?
I was just wondering since we're going to have a whole bunch of people in the market for a faith by the end of the day, and pointing them towards gods who won't actually save them from the river of souls would be kind of pointless.
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They do let people into as it were the periphery of the Dream. Joe Random who used to worship the Old Gods gets protection from fiends and astral predators, but he does not get embodied in the Heart trees.
 
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Part MMMDCCLXXX: Of Whom Much is Asked
  • Threadmarks
    • Of Whom Much is Asked ​

    Twenty Second Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

    The air is heavy in the chamber and not just with the weight of added warding, for one with ears to listen in on the conversations of the Princeps and the Vox there is an air of expectation, from both those who knew or could guess what the day's meeting shall foretell and those who can but fret and worry. From the handful of pale faces you can see among the Vox you guess some at least of the attending notables have been told already by allies and friends in the know who reasoned that it would be best to break the news in private with copious amounts of drink in hand than in public under the eye of the world.

    Waymar had done that for his father weeks ago, though the doughty lord of Runestone would not believe him until he had seen with his own eyes the wreck of Heaven, and there he had wept unabashedly. 'His wife thought he had just been out drinking,' Tyene had said a little sadly. There had been plenty of that, but not for joy at the coronation.

    You catch now the eye of Roose Bolton who had just been giving an apprising look of his own to the new Duke Frey, he clearly knows and you could guess from whom as well. There are not many men Qyburn trusts, and you could not imagine him keeping the secret from one such as him, though how the cold lord of the Dreadfort had taken it you cannot even begin to guess. Not far from him are Theon and Asha seated beside each other for all it makes for a breech of protocol. They are holding hands between the seats, though who is comforting who you could not say for certain.

    Others there are who have had the time to get used to the notion of what you are about to share long since, whether like Garin they had seen the proof of the Sundering with their own eyes or those who had but read about it to better perform duties to the Realm like the heads of the Scholarum branches and Valens who had so recently worn the silver book and sword of the Inquisition.

    Others there are of the far Planes for whom this has been the truth of the world as long as they can recall or for whom the tragedy of the Spheres holds a personal pain and sorrow. Angels of faded light and those who keep the faith, devils and spirits of the Inner Spheres... you wonder if any of them had thought to share the news with their fellows. You wonder if any of them would have been believed if they had. You have a hell of a task before you today. "And it shall not grow any easier for waiting," Varys reminds you as the silence stretches long and wary, the whispers gathering together and spreading like the call of some strange bird flocking in the shadows of the chamber, where the light of the mage lanterns cannot quite reach.

    "My lords and ladies, Wisdoms, Excellencies and Honorable Ministers and Marshals, Justices and Voices of the Imperium and masters in trade and craft upon which so much is already weighed. I fear that this day I must confer upon you yet another burden, that of knowledge that is heavy in the mind and heavier in the heart. Strange and fel will seem the things you are about to hear, and I wish with all my being that they were not so, or that I did not have to speak of them. But to guard and to guide each our own part in the running of the state all of us must know the true shape of the world beyond this one, and so we shall."

    So saying you motion to your side and a perfect double of the illusory model of the cosmos crafted before the Tree of Wisdom here in the Deep is made manifest, the one that shows the Spheres in Balance and the souls of mortals passing through the River each into their own apportioned place. The borders are clear and the light of the Upper Planes shines soft gold and silver even as the whirling madness of the Pit pulses with writhes colors and Hell pulses like onto a heart of black iron or a drum leading to grim war. "This is I fear a lie, but it is a lie that was once true and which might prove instructive nonetheless to express what I have come here before you to show. "

    Working outwards from the world under the sun in the center of the model you explain what each of the planes are, careful to make clear that each are in their own way infinite, though without getting caught up in the trap of debating some of the more esoteric points like the 'infinite infinities' of the Abyss which have been the bane of many an apprentice conjuror's understanding. There are startlingly few interruptions, mostly from among the Vox again, though Maege Mormont does ask where the Old Gods live which leads to a tangent about the nature of the Dreamlands and other transitive planes and how one cannot really model them in three dimensional space even as much as the outer and inner planes. You would have thought more folk would wish to know where their gods dwell, but apparently they are not as curious as Second Circle Scholarum initiates.

    Now the time has come to change the shape of the figment, to show them the true shape of the Spheres that had been Sundered. Light and colored, and words in your mouth are unlikely to convince all of them of a thing so many would not wish was true.

    What witnesses do you call and what proofs do you offer?

    [] Write in

    OOC: Almost dice rolling time to see who keeps their heads. I did not enumerate everyone who already knows the truth, but you can assume a good third of the Principium does.
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • DragonParadox said:
    Of Whom Much is Asked ​

    Twenty First Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

    The air is close in the chamber and not just with the weight of added warding. For one with ears to listen in on the conversations of the Princeps and the Vox, there is an air of expectation, from both those who knew or could guess what the day's meeting shall foretell and those who can but fret and worry. From the handful of pale faces you can see among the Vox, you guess some at least of the attending notables have been told already by allies and friends in the know who reasoned that it would be best to break the news in private with copious amounts of drink to hand rather than in public under the eye of the world.

    Waymar had done that for his father weeks ago, though the doughty lord of Runestone would not believe until he had seen with his own eyes the wreck of Heaven, and there he had wept unabashedly. 'His wife thought he had just been out drinking,' Tyene had said a little sadly. There had been plenty of that, but not for joy at the coronation.

    You catch now the eye of Roose Bolton, who had just been giving an appraising look of his own to the new Duke Frey. He clearly knows, and you could guess from whom as well. There are not many men Qyburn trusts, and you could not imagine him keeping the secret from one such, though how the cold lord of the Dreadfort had taken it, you cannot even begin to guess. Not far from him are Theon and Asha seated beside each other, for all it makes for a breech of protocol. They are holding hands between the seats, though who is comforting who you could not say for certain.

    Others there are who have had the time to get used to the notion of what you are about to share long since, whether like Garin they had seen the proof of the Sundering with their own eyes or those who had but read about it to better perform duties to the Realm, like the Heads of the Scholarum Branches and Valens, who had so recently worn the silver book and sword of the Inquisition.

    Others there are of the far Planes, for whom this has been the truth of the world as long as they can recall, or for whom the tragedy of the Spheres holds a personal pain and sorrow. Angels of faded light and those who keep the faith, devils and spirits of the Inner Spheres... You wonder if any of them had thought to share the news with their fellows. You wonder if any of them would have been believed if they had. You have a hell of a task before you today. "And it shall not grow any easier for waiting," Varys reminds you as the silence stretches long and wary, the whispers gathering together and spreading like the call of some strange bird flocking in the shadows of the chamber, where the light of the mage lanterns cannot quite reach.

    "My lords and ladies, Wisdoms, Excellencies , and Honorable Ministers and Marshals, Justices and Voices of the Imperium, and masters in trade and craft upon which so much is already weighed. I fear that this day I must confer upon you yet another burden, that of knowledge that is heavy in the mind and heavier in the heart. Strange and fel will seem the things you are about to hear, and I wish with all my being that they were not so, or that I did not have to speak of them. But to guard and to guide each our own part in the running of the state, all of us must know the true shape of the world beyond this one, and so we shall."

    So saying, you motion to your side, and a perfect double of the illusory model of the cosmos crafted before the Tree of Wisdom here in the Deep is made manifest, the one that shows the Spheres in Balance and the souls of mortals passing through the River, each into their own apportioned place. The borders are clear and the light of the Upper Planes shines soft gold and silver even as the whirling madness of the Pit writhes with colors and Hell pulses like onto a heart of black iron or a drum leading to grim war. "That is, I fear, a lie, but it is a lie that was once true and which might prove instructive nonetheless to express what I have come here before you to show. "

    Working outwards from the world under the sun in the center of the model you explain what each of the planes are, careful to make clear that each are in their own way infinite, though without getting caught up in the trap of debating some of the more esoteric points like the 'infinite infinities' of the Abyss which have been the bane of many an apprentice conjuror's understanding. There are startlingly few interruptions, mostly from among the Vox again, though Maege Mormont does ask where the Old Gods live which leads to a tangent about the nature of the Dreamlands and other transitive planes, and how one cannot really model them in three dimensional space even as much as the outer and inner planes. You would have thought more folk would wish to know where their gods dwell, but apparently they are not as curious as second circle Scholarum initiates.

    Now the time has come to change the shape of the figment, to show them the true shape of the Spheres that had been Sundered. Light and color and words in your mouth are unlikely to convince all of them of a thing so many would not wish was true.

    What witnesses do you call and what proofs do you offer?

    [] Write in

    OOC: Almost dice rolling time to see who keeps their heads. I did not enumerate everyone who already knows the truth, but you can assume a good third of the Principium does.
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    Made some additional edits to the chapter, DP.
     
    We've got plenty of Archons, Devils, Shaitan, and other assorted beings of extraplanar origin who can corroborate the truth, along with numerous government officials, the Companions, even the gods. I wonder if Nirah would like to ssspeak before the Curia?
     
    ....If what Walder Prime is doing is good with the law then I want to just shake his hand with a big smile. Even when he died he is trying to increase the influence of his family with a Trading Company.
     
    Goldfish said:
    We've got plenty of Archons, Devils, Shaitan, and other assorted beings of extraplanar origin who can corroborate the truth, along with numerous government officials, the Companions, even the gods. I wonder if Nirah would like to ssspeak before the Curia?
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    Plenty of Outsiders, champions and heralds of gods and an actual god (hello Zathir), and then trophies of Void servants. It's a good idea for people in Westeros especially to get that heads up on what the Others have to throw at them. I get the feeling after this there's going to be a lot more support for military expansion within the Imperium.
     
    Pretty sure much of the Celestials would make good witnesses to call. Their very nature would make many believe what they say and having been present during or at least have seen the broken heavens make whatever they say all the more impactful.
     
    I think we can call some pretty good witnesses, but the question is how do we speechify things? Because there's no way we're walking away from this without a grandiose and uplifting speech.
     
    Trevor23 said:
    Pretty sure much of the Celestials would make good witnesses to call. Their very nature would make many believe what they say and having been present during or at least have seen the broken heavens make whatever they say all the more impactful.
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    It's important we call on our vassal fiends as well. Ironically the Void is also their enemy, and it's probably a good idea we cut back any potential infighting here and now in case people try to play the blame game of why the Void is supreme at the moment.
     
    Duesal said:
    It's important we call on our vassal fiends as well. Ironically the Void is also their enemy, and it's probably a good idea we cut back any potential infighting here and now in case people try to play the blame game of why the Void is supreme at the moment.
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    True, though I think it best that we start with the Celestials as their word would be more trusted, and keep them around when the Fiends go up to speak, it will be incredibly telling to all when the Celestials do not deny the words of a Fiend right in front of them about the fall of Heaven.
    Crake said:
    I think we can call some pretty good witnesses, but the question is how do we speechify things? Because there's no way we're walking away from this without a grandiose and uplifting speech.
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    Can we reveal our God crafting plan? Or barring that we can simply point to the many gods we have allied with tell those assembled that they are a solution, one among many available.
     
    Trevor23 said:
    True, though I think it best that we start with the Celestials as their word would be more trusted, and keep them around when the Fiends go up to speak, it will be incredibly telling to all when the Celestials do not deny the words of a Fiend right in front of them about the fall of Heaven.

    Can we reveal our God crafting plan? Or barring that we can simply point to the many gods we have allied with tell those assembled that they are a solution, one among many available.
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    No revealing our god crafting plan. It's way too early for that. There are too many people without Mind Blanks here, and also it's just too early to give them that kind of hope. The right time is when we've actually got it ready to go.
     
    I don't think we have anyone who was present for Heavens last battle. Not exactly many survivors of that shitshow.

    Elaheh lived in Heaven's Shore, but I don't think that people are in the right mindset to deal with her.
     
    Trevor23 said:
    Can we reveal our God crafting plan?
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    No way, that is the blackest of black budget, secret information.

    I wouldn't even allude to it in the most nebulous of terms. That's just inviting interference and disaster. No, the best we can tell people now is that we're working with friendly allied gods, as well as those who are not actively malicious, to secure suitable accommodations for the souls of our subjects in their various afterlives.

    Once the true nature of reality becomes clear, it should be evident to most of those present that we are trying to build a divine coalition to preserve the souls of our citizens. I mean, that's not really our sole motivation, but it could easily appear that way.
     
    Azel said:
    I don't think we have anyone who was present for Heavens last battle. Not exactly many survivors of that shitshow.

    Elaheh lived in Heaven's Shore, but I don't think that people are in the right mindset to deal with her.
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    We only have people who were on the outskirts, but that's still good enough. Yrael and Zathir can speak on Heaven's Fall, Bloom can tell of Elysium, Mereth can tell of Hell's role in all this, Azema can speak on the Abyss, etc. Granted we don't really need them all to play guest speaker, but damn if they're not good props.
     
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